And we’ve talked about this before, he was the 2nd most pressured QB in the nfl. That doesn’t resemble a good OL
Yea, I thought we agreed that he was the 2nd most pressured QB because he held the ball too long for a pure pocket passer.
No I never once said that. I said there were times he did for sure but overall, his OL was terrible and gave up a ton of pressures. He was getting his before he even finished his drop back. You were trying to claim that they were "in between great and terrible as a pass blocking OL". Which is so far from the truth its not even funny. Outside of O'Neill and Reiff (only part of the season) our interior was manhandled on a consistent basis which often gave Cousins little pocket to step into. Watch highlights of his this year and watch what he does with a clean pocket. Compared to the tape where he doesnt have one. Half the time in his highlights he was still getting crushed and making some great throws. The Thielen TD late in the first GB game is a perfect example. Bottom line is, this OL was NOT good at pass blocking.
via PFF:
Outside of left tackle Riley Reiff – who himself had some ugly outings, most notably Buffalo – the Vikings didn’t have a single offensive lineman with a top-80 grade this season. Their interior was quite easily one of the worst in the league. Tom Compton, Pat Elflein, and Mike Remmers combined to give up 18 sacks on the season.
And I'm giving credit to O'Neill simply because he didnt give up a single sack. Not a fan on earth is going to defend this OL and their pass blocking other than you. So you're going nowhere with it. No matter what stat you bring up.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
We are heading into tomorrow over our cap. When's the last time we did that?
I'm not happy we broke the bank on resigning a Defensive player.
Walter Football gave us a C- minus on the Barr deal.
His deal could be worth as much as 77 million with incentives.
Then the Jets must be the worst run NFL team. They jumped quickly. What is Walter Football. If Barr isn't that good he wouldn't have had an offer right of the bat. We could sign him for the min salary. Obviously Barr is better than what Walter thinks or no team would even bother with him.
Walter football is simply a "fantasy expert" type website. The guy himself has less credibility than anyone from bleacher report which is never a good thing. I just go on their site because they list what prospects the Vikings met with during the draft process.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:35 pm
So, a couple things.
#1 Cousins was not an effective passer last season. He broke records because he threw the ball a lot, but those yards and passing TDs did not result in sustained drives or anything that resembled a good offense. Context matters with stats, and Cousins stats in context are not good.
#2 There is a common misconception that Cousins had little time to throw in 2018. The fact is, his time to throw was above average and his sack rate was 9th lowest in the NFL.
#3 The best was available in the draft in 2017. We just didn't have a 1st rounder to get him. Because of that massive mistake by the GM, the GM backed himself into making another massive mistake in overpaying for a losing QB.
So this s show of an OL is fine then. Hate to bring it up but our center couldn't block anything. We had problems across the board on offense. One thing I see is we don't have a WR that makes teams shake. Yes the two we have are good but we don't have the blow the top off the house guy. Were teams always need a guy over the top or the game is up. Our back who is good misses time every season. I know we need to play it out another x number of years first. He's injury prone period. You must be a Case K guy.
The Oline couldn't run block, and they were not good at pass blocking, but they were serviceable in that area. A better QB could have made it work. Whether they got rid of the ball quicker or scrambled to buy time. It is by far the weakest area of the team, especially since there are only 3 starters currently on the roster.
Not a Case guy. I wasn't on here when Case was starting, but my guess is a number of people who rip him now, would have defended him the same way they are defending Cousins when I told them Case was journeyman backup for a reason, and that he was not the answer long term. Funny how people's opinion change...
CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:32 am
So this s show of an OL is fine then. Hate to bring it up but our center couldn't block anything. We had problems across the board on offense. One thing I see is we don't have a WR that makes teams shake. Yes the two we have are good but we don't have the blow the top off the house guy. Were teams always need a guy over the top or the game is up. Our back who is good misses time every season. I know we need to play it out another x number of years first. He's injury prone period. You must be a Case K guy.
The Oline couldn't run block, and they were not good at pass blocking, but they were serviceable in that area. A better QB could have made it work. Whether they got rid of the ball quicker or scrambled to buy time. It is by far the weakest area of the team, especially since there are only 3 starters currently on the roster.
Not a Case guy. I wasn't on here when Case was starting, but my guess is a number of people who rip him now, would have defended him the same way they are defending Cousins when I told them Case was journeyman backup for a reason, and that he was not the answer long term. Funny how people's opinion change...
lol please do me a favor and go back and look at posts I made about Keenum not only 2 offseasons ago but during the year when he was our QB. And also the following offseason when I wanted Cousins over him. My opinion has never once changed. I find it funny that you say you werent on here then, but think you know what others opinions were like towards him. My opinion of Case has always been the same so I dont have a clue who you're talking about on here. Do you think after the back and forth we have over this, I dont know or havent pointed out a million times he wasnt the answer and was a backup journeyman. What's funny is you thinking you know what other people were saying when you werent even on the board during that time span.
And saying an OL was not good at pass blocking but then saying they were serviceable doesnt make much sense. You're either good or not good. And they were not good and it showed. Simple as that.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:22 am
The Oline couldn't run block, and they were not good at pass blocking, but they were serviceable in that area. A better QB could have made it work. Whether they got rid of the ball quicker or scrambled to buy time. It is by far the weakest area of the team, especially since there are only 3 starters currently on the roster.
Not a Case guy. I wasn't on here when Case was starting, but my guess is a number of people who rip him now, would have defended him the same way they are defending Cousins when I told them Case was journeyman backup for a reason, and that he was not the answer long term. Funny how people's opinion change...
lol please do me a favor and go back and look at posts I made about Keenum not only 2 offseasons ago but during the year when he was our QB. And also the following offseason when I wanted Cousins over him. My opinion has never once changed. I find it funny that you say you werent on here then, but think you know what others opinions were like towards him. My opinion of Case has always been the same so I dont have a clue who you're talking about on here. Do you think after the back and forth we have over this, I dont know or havent pointed out a million times he wasnt the answer and was a backup journeyman. What's funny is you thinking you know what other people were saying when you werent even on the board during that time span.
And saying an OL was not good at pass blocking but then saying they were serviceable doesnt make much sense. You're either good or not good. And they were not good and it showed. Simple as that.
If you have been consistent that is fine, I am not going to go back and look and will take your word for it.
Serviceable is not good imo, and it is not bad either. It is somewhere in-between. Not everything is black or white, good or bad. Sometimes you can have a unit that needs improvement, but isn't bad. Our QB is a good example of a player who needs to improve, but isn't bad. Our Oline is more bad than good, but it isn't Oakland Raider or Miami Dolphin bad at pass blocking. A better QB could have made it work and to be fair, a worse QB could have made it look worse. Bradford, Manning and Stafford for instance, probably would have made it look worse.
lol please do me a favor and go back and look at posts I made about Keenum not only 2 offseasons ago but during the year when he was our QB. And also the following offseason when I wanted Cousins over him. My opinion has never once changed. I find it funny that you say you werent on here then, but think you know what others opinions were like towards him. My opinion of Case has always been the same so I dont have a clue who you're talking about on here. Do you think after the back and forth we have over this, I dont know or havent pointed out a million times he wasnt the answer and was a backup journeyman. What's funny is you thinking you know what other people were saying when you werent even on the board during that time span.
And saying an OL was not good at pass blocking but then saying they were serviceable doesnt make much sense. You're either good or not good. And they were not good and it showed. Simple as that.
If you have been consistent that is fine, I am not going to go back and look and will take your word for it.
Serviceable is not good imo, and it is not bad either. It is somewhere in-between. Not everything is black or white, good or bad. Sometimes you can have a unit that needs improvement, but isn't bad. Our QB is a good example of a player who needs to improve, but isn't bad. Our Oline is more bad than good, but it isn't Oakland Raider or Miami Dolphin bad at pass blocking. A better QB could have made it work and to be fair, a worse QB could have made it look worse. Bradford, Manning and Stafford for instance, probably would have made it look worse.
I mean I would say that's a fair assessment now that you explain it. I mean I still dont look at them as an "in between". Especially on the interior. Having tackles like Reiff and O'Neill is the definition of serviceable if you ask me. And granted, O'Neill should continue to get better. Reiff has hit his peak and looked extremely bad some games this year but held up in others. That is a serviceable tackle group with room to improve given O'Neill. Our interior on the other hand was downright bad. Not middle of the road...just bad. More so Compton and Remmers. Elflein was terrible this year but he was also wedged in between two trash cans for guards. I think that if he had better guards on both sides of him (like he did in 2017), he will be back to his old form. But as a unit of 3, our interior was awful this year. So you had 3 guys playing terrible, one playing terrible or decent and the other not giving up a sack. When you add those 5 players up, the bad still well outweighs the good. That's all I'm saying
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
I've always thought Schraeder was a solid tackle. Looks like his play has dipped a little in the past few years but from what I remember, he was always pretty decent. I wonder if they sign him, they move O'Neill to LT and Reiff to guard so Schraeder can play RT
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:29 pm
Vikes were pretty tight under the cap before resigning Barr. Does anyone have an update on where this deal puts them?
As far as the move goes, Barr is definitely a talented player who is in the prime of his career. He has lapses at times, but his athletic ability can't be questioned. It's an astute move from a continuity and team chemistry perspective, and while I can't say I'm super excited about it, it does take some pressure off Rick to find an adequate replacement in the draft or in FA, which would be unlikely given the other needs the team has.
I agree with others that this makes it more likely we're seeing the end of the Griffen era, but we'll know for sure by Friday.
This CAP stuff is very confusing for me. The Saints were broke and yet they sign Murray. The bottom line is the CAP is anything a team wants it to be. It has zero bearing on what a team can do.
Brees restructured his contract to free up cap space but his cap hit next year is MASSIVE. They are definitely in win now mode. Eventually you pay the piper.
I've always thought Schraeder was a solid tackle. Looks like his play has dipped a little in the past few years but from what I remember, he was always pretty decent. I wonder if they sign him, they move O'Neill to LT and Reiff to guard so Schraeder can play RT
Saw this as well. Curious as to why the decline. Those ratings were also on different teams so perhaps scheme played a factor.
What would it accomplish signing an OT. Guards is what we really need.
O we could convert Reiff to a guard and pay him tackle money.
Bottom line we have had 4 years to put together an OL and Rick has failed.
Last season should have been OL in the first round but instead we took a luxury pick.
halfgiz wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:58 pm
What would it accomplish signing an OT. Guards is what we really need.
O we could convert Reiff to a guard and pay him tackle money.
Bottom line we have had 4 years to put together an OL and Rick has failed.
Last season should have been OL in the first round but instead we took a luxury pick.
But we took OL in the 2nd and still made out with that pick so is there really a difference between O’Neill and Hernandez given how they both played this year? No. The chances of Spielman taking back to back lineman is probably slim. It would have been great but slim chances. So given his history, who cares if we did it in round 1 or 2, we still got a good offensive lineman out of it and possibly our LT of the future which is the toughest offensive line position to find
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:11 am
Griffen is done here.
What was that?
Star Tribune wrote:The Vikings will have Everson Griffen back on their roster in 2019, after the defensive end restructured his contract Thursday to help provide the team some salary cap relief.
Last edited by PurpleKoolaid on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:11 am
Griffen is done here.
What was that?
Star Tribune wrote:The Vikings will have Everson Griffen back on their roster in 2019, after the defensive end restructured his contract Thursday to help provide the team some salary cap relief.
I was wrong. not the first or last. Hopefully all works out. No doubt he is a very good player. Now we'll see about the mental stuff.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:24 am
What was that?
I was wrong. not the first or last. Hopefully all works out. No doubt he is a very good player. Now we'll see about the mental stuff.
What makes you think he will be a good player? Because hes older now? Or being in the loony bin cured him? He is the classic case of someone to try and trade. Just like Kyle is. But now no one wants either of them.
