2019 Season General Thread (News, Notes, Interviews, etc)

[S197]

Barr's contract details just came out.....

His cap hit this year is only $5.6 million. Maybe we arent in as bad of shape as we thought cap wise. If that's correct, I think we still have like $3-4 million left in cap

It's not as bad mainly due to spreading his signing bonus over the 5 years. His cap hit is pretty big next year so it's a bit of a kick the can down the road type deal. It's still a far better deal than I thought he would take though, so credit to Brzezinski there. It really looks like more of a 2-3 year deal unless he really outperforms.

$3M of that will need to go to the rookies we draft. We have no kicker or any guards. I'm not even sure Harris is factored into that figure.

Even if we go pure draft for OL there's not any room to do anything right now. Everson at minimum is going to get cut or restructure. I could see other moves as well.

[Pondering Her Percy]

A good year to need a guard or center in the 3rd-4th...yeah. As for tackles, there are quite a few potential tackles out there. The two positions are the complete opposite actually. Like you said tackles are top heavy but there are 6-7 potential solid ones. As for TRUE guards, there aren't many until you get to rounds 2-4. I'm not sure if you will even see one go in round 1 outside of maybe Lindstrom.

By TRUE guards I assume you mean not T to G conversion projects?

Yes

[PurpleMustReign]

I hate to do this but...

Dan Bailey is currently unsigned. That means the Vikings currently do not have a kicker. Fun times ahead!

Well hopefully their new Special Teams Coordinator can take whoever it is and not ruin their career.

[PurpleKoolaid]

I hate to do this but...

Dan Bailey is currently unsigned. That means the Vikings currently do not have a kicker. Fun times ahead!

Well hopefully their new Special Teams Coordinator can take whoever it is and not ruin their career.

Rick couldnt find a good kicker to save his job. Hopefully Kubiac can, but a lot of people are putting too much trust in him. He isnt a miracle worker, and thats what it would take to beat Rick's incompetence. What a horrible decision it was for the Vikings org to hire him in 2006, a complete waste of time.

[Pondering Her Percy]

....anyways, I’m seeing tweets that they think the asking price for Waynes is at least a 2nd round pick. Because if he walks next year in FA, we’ll gain a 3rd round compensatory pick. So they think the Vikings are asking for at least a 2nd possibly more. But they are still receiving calls on him

[Pondering Her Percy]

Man I will say, everyone is going to talk about Clevelands offseason, but IMO, the giants destroyed them in both trades. I truly believe the giants have won this offseason so far. In two trades between the browns and giants this is what it ended up being:

Browns receive:

-WR- Odell Beckham (talented WR that’s a diva and a headache) and carried a $17 million cap hit

-DE- Olivier Vernon (a bust FA signing who is overpaid) and carried a $15.5 million cap hit

-4th round pick

....and paid a total of $21.1 million MORE than they would have without the trades



Giants receive:

-OG- Kevin Zeitler (best pass blocking guard in football) and carries a $10 million cap hit

-S- Jabrill Peppers (one of the better young safeties in the NFL) and carries a $1.4 million cap hit with 2, possibly 3, years left on a rookie contract.

-1st round pick

-3rd round pick

-5th round pick

.....and pay $21.1 million LESS than they would have if they didn’t make these trades.

And in the end, the giants now go into this years draft with 12 picks already. Two 1st round picks, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths, three 5ths, 6th and two 7ths AND landed Zeitler and Peppers in the process. That’s crazy.

Nobody is going to talk about their offseason but they destroyed the Browns in these trades IMO. Granted the browns signed Richardson too but either way, just from a trading standpoint, the Giants made some unreal moves. Especially after seeing what Pitt got in return for Antonio Brown. Excellent offseason for Shurmur. The Browns can take a hike, the giants won these deals by a long shot. They have 12 draft picks, gained two stud players at an affordable price and saved $21 million dollars. Well done Shurmur

[Pondering Her Percy]

We are over the cap right now. I'm guessing somewhere around $4 million. I just read that we currently have a contract restructure submitted for Griffen. No word on if he will accept or not. I would hope they would give Rudy one too. I saw a quote from Rudy about how he would take a restructure but I'm not sure how accurate it was.

This offseason looks like a ####. We really seem to be reactive. Who goes into the tampering period looking to restructure. A team tight on the cap should have had that cleared by then. The Barr decision seems like it was out of fear of losing him. No talks with Rudy is just bizarre. Either you love him enough to keep him (restructure) or you don't (cut him).

YikesVikes you make some good points here and I see what you’re saying to a sense. Here’s my thing....

One thing that worries me with Zim and Spielman is that it almost seems like they are trying too hard to “keep this team together” if that makes sense. It’s like they can’t fathom letting guys like Barr, Rudy, Rhodes, Griff or Waynes go. And I think it’s caused them to miss out on good opportunities. Mainly Zeitler. If we gave the browns Griff, we would have gotten a lot more than the giants did. Granted griff is 3 years older than Vernon but he’s MUCH better and cost $4 million less than Vernon. I’m guessing we could have landed Zeitler and a 3rd. And save $1 million in the process.

It’s almost like Rudy is the vet you never get rid of (like greenway), griff and Rhodes are Zims boys, and Barr and Waynes were Zims picks. Granted they are all good players but some are on the back end of their careers (griff and Rudy). This is what worries me most. I don’t think it’s “hurting us” because I think these guys will still be effective outside of maybe Rudy. But there is a time to move on and it seems like we are struggling with that. I’m not gonna lie if we trade Waynes, unless we get a truck load, I’m gonna be ticked. Simply because I’d rather trade Griff to get a pick and Zeitler vs trading Waynes to get a pick and lose a young solid player.

I don’t think this is a crap offseason by any means. I think guys are quick to say that simply because OL hasn’t been addressed yet but that will come in the draft. It’s just kind of average and keeping the same guys in place for the most part. I just hope this isn’t the case. It could be, I don’t know. But I wish they would be a little more aggressive when it comes to trading, cutting, restructuring, etc. We still have a VERY talented team no doubt and it should get even better after the draft. It’s just there are some moves I definitely would have made like the Zeitler trade that we decided to pass on. Like if we lose a guy like Barr, do something about it! It’s not the end of the world, make a blockbuster. Idk I just love trading. I’m constantly trading in my fantasy leagues lol. But either way that zeitler deal could have and should have been made IMO. This is a playoff team but I want a SB team and to get that I don’t think we need to keep all of Zims boys around in order to get there. Be aggressive with your roster! You’re loaded with talent

[J. Kapp 11]

Man I will say, everyone is going to talk about Clevelands offseason, but IMO, the giants destroyed them in both trades. I truly believe the giants have won this offseason so far. In two trades between the browns and giants this is what it ended up being:

Browns receive:

-WR- Odell Beckham (talented WR that’s a diva and a headache) and carried a $17 million cap hit

-DE- Olivier Vernon (a bust FA signing who is overpaid) and carried a $15.5 million cap hit

-4th round pick

....and paid a total of $21.1 million MORE than they would have without the trades



Giants receive:

-OG- Kevin Zeitler (best pass blocking guard in football) and carries a $10 million cap hit

-S- Jabrill Peppers (one of the better young safeties in the NFL) and carries a $1.4 million cap hit with 2, possibly 3, years left on a rookie contract.

-1st round pick

-3rd round pick

-5th round pick

.....and pay $21.1 million LESS than they would have if they didn’t make these trades.

And in the end, the giants now go into this years draft with 12 picks already. Two 1st round picks, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths, three 5ths, 6th and two 7ths AND landed Zeitler and Peppers in the process. That’s crazy.

Nobody is going to talk about their offseason but they destroyed the Browns in these trades IMO. Granted the browns signed Richardson too but either way, just from a trading standpoint, the Giants made some unreal moves. Especially after seeing what Pitt got in return for Antonio Brown. Excellent offseason for Shurmur. The Browns can take a hike, the giants won these deals by a long shot. They have 12 draft picks, gained two stud players at an affordable price and saved $21 million dollars. Well done Shurmur

I mostly agree with you. However, the Browns got what they wanted/needed. They had tons of draft capital, so they could afford to trade some of it, and they had tons of salary cap space. Also, when you consider that Beckham and Jarvis Landry are best friends who played together at LSU, and their WR coach will be Adam Henry, who was their receivers coach at LSU and who has had a lot of success in a short time with the Browns, it makes you think those two could be something special. Especially when teamed with Baker Mayfield. The Browns' price for the Beckham deal was steep, but the Browns got what they wanted, and what they could afford.

Olivier Vernon ... talented, but mostly underperforming. Kevin Zeitler ... talented, but mostly underperforming. It's kind of a wash. If the Browns can get anything more out of Vernon, their D-line is going to be scary, with Myles Garrett and the addition of Sheldon Richardson.

Did the Giants get the better of the deals? Probably, but it also depends to some degree on how their draft picks pan out.

Here's where I really love what Shurmur did. Beckham is a diva. A "brand" who cares about one thing and one thing only ... himself. He's also been a pain in Shurmur's a$$ from Day One, repeatedly and openly hostile toward his coach in front of the team. And y'know what? Shurmur is having none of it. I give him credit for ridding the Giants of someone who refuses to row in the same direction as the rest of the team. And I give the Mara family and Dave Gettelman credit for allowing him to do it. Beckham is a generational talent, but no team can survive with a self-serving diva who openly undermines the coach. It's about time that a team not named the New England Patriots quit coddling players like Beckham.

[YikesVikes]

This offseason looks like a ####. We really seem to be reactive. Who goes into the tampering period looking to restructure. A team tight on the cap should have had that cleared by then. The Barr decision seems like it was out of fear of losing him. No talks with Rudy is just bizarre. Either you love him enough to keep him (restructure) or you don't (cut him).

YikesVikes you make some good points here and I see what you’re saying to a sense. Here’s my thing....

One thing that worries me with Zim and Spielman is that it almost seems like they are trying too hard to “keep this team together” if that makes sense. It’s like they can’t fathom letting guys like Barr, Rudy, Rhodes, Griff or Waynes go. And I think it’s caused them to miss out on good opportunities. Mainly Zeitler. If we gave the browns Griff, we would have gotten a lot more than the giants did. Granted griff is 3 years older than Vernon but he’s MUCH better and cost $4 million less than Vernon. I’m guessing we could have landed Zeitler and a 3rd. And save $1 million in the process.

It’s almost like Rudy is the vet you never get rid of (like greenway), griff and Rhodes are Zims boys, and Barr and Waynes were Zims picks. Granted they are all good players but some are on the back end of their careers (griff and Rudy). This is what worries me most. I don’t think it’s “hurting us” because I think these guys will still be effective outside of maybe Rudy. But there is a time to move on and it seems like we are struggling with that. I’m not gonna lie if we trade Waynes, unless we get a truck load, I’m gonna be ticked. Simply because I’d rather trade Griff to get a pick and Zeitler vs trading Waynes to get a pick and lose a young solid player.

I don’t think this is a crap offseason by any means. I think guys are quick to say that simply because OL hasn’t been addressed yet but that will come in the draft. It’s just kind of average and keeping the same guys in place for the most part. I just hope this isn’t the case. It could be, I don’t know. But I wish they would be a little more aggressive when it comes to trading, cutting, restructuring, etc. We still have a VERY talented team no doubt and it should get even better after the draft. It’s just there are some moves I definitely would have made like the Zeitler trade that we decided to pass on. Like if we lose a guy like Barr, do something about it! It’s not the end of the world, make a blockbuster. Idk I just love trading. I’m constantly trading in my fantasy leagues lol. But either way that zeitler deal could have and should have been made IMO. This is a playoff team but I want a SB team and to get that I don’t think we need to keep all of Zims boys around in order to get there. Be aggressive with your roster! You’re loaded with talent

Read/listened to a break down that 12 players on this team accounts for more than 75% of the Cap. Some people think it's all cousin but we have a lot of guys locked up. This is a double edge sword. Some of the people locked up, we should be moving on from. I really wanted a new LB and you had sold me on snatching LSU's monster if he became available. It seems like more of the same to me. This team will have a problem stopping the run and not dynamic enough in the LB area as it pertains to takeaways (fumbles and ints). I have 3 needs for this team. OL, DT, WR. I would like us to go OL, if the true studs at DT are gone and then take Dexter Lawrence in the 2nd. I would like us to trade back into the end of the 2nd round and grab Hakeem Butler.
We can still sign Maxx Williams at TE.

[PurpleMustReign]

Man I will say, everyone is going to talk about Clevelands offseason, but IMO, the giants destroyed them in both trades. I truly believe the giants have won this offseason so far. In two trades between the browns and giants this is what it ended up being:

Browns receive:

-WR- Odell Beckham (talented WR that’s a diva and a headache) and carried a $17 million cap hit

-DE- Olivier Vernon (a bust FA signing who is overpaid) and carried a $15.5 million cap hit

-4th round pick

....and paid a total of $21.1 million MORE than they would have without the trades



Giants receive:

-OG- Kevin Zeitler (best pass blocking guard in football) and carries a $10 million cap hit

-S- Jabrill Peppers (one of the better young safeties in the NFL) and carries a $1.4 million cap hit with 2, possibly 3, years left on a rookie contract.

-1st round pick

-3rd round pick

-5th round pick

.....and pay $21.1 million LESS than they would have if they didn’t make these trades.

And in the end, the giants now go into this years draft with 12 picks already. Two 1st round picks, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths, three 5ths, 6th and two 7ths AND landed Zeitler and Peppers in the process. That’s crazy.

Nobody is going to talk about their offseason but they destroyed the Browns in these trades IMO. Granted the browns signed Richardson too but either way, just from a trading standpoint, the Giants made some unreal moves. Especially after seeing what Pitt got in return for Antonio Brown. Excellent offseason for Shurmur. The Browns can take a hike, the giants won these deals by a long shot. They have 12 draft picks, gained two stud players at an affordable price and saved $21 million dollars. Well done Shurmur

I agree as well. Cleveland win short term, New York won long term imo.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Man I will say, everyone is going to talk about Clevelands offseason, but IMO, the giants destroyed them in both trades. I truly believe the giants have won this offseason so far. In two trades between the browns and giants this is what it ended up being:

Browns receive:

-WR- Odell Beckham (talented WR that’s a diva and a headache) and carried a $17 million cap hit

-DE- Olivier Vernon (a bust FA signing who is overpaid) and carried a $15.5 million cap hit

-4th round pick

....and paid a total of $21.1 million MORE than they would have without the trades



Giants receive:

-OG- Kevin Zeitler (best pass blocking guard in football) and carries a $10 million cap hit

-S- Jabrill Peppers (one of the better young safeties in the NFL) and carries a $1.4 million cap hit with 2, possibly 3, years left on a rookie contract.

-1st round pick

-3rd round pick

-5th round pick

.....and pay $21.1 million LESS than they would have if they didn’t make these trades.

And in the end, the giants now go into this years draft with 12 picks already. Two 1st round picks, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths, three 5ths, 6th and two 7ths AND landed Zeitler and Peppers in the process. That’s crazy.

Nobody is going to talk about their offseason but they destroyed the Browns in these trades IMO. Granted the browns signed Richardson too but either way, just from a trading standpoint, the Giants made some unreal moves. Especially after seeing what Pitt got in return for Antonio Brown. Excellent offseason for Shurmur. The Browns can take a hike, the giants won these deals by a long shot. They have 12 draft picks, gained two stud players at an affordable price and saved $21 million dollars. Well done Shurmur

I mostly agree with you. However, the Browns got what they wanted/needed. They had tons of draft capital, so they could afford to trade some of it, and they had tons of salary cap space. Also, when you consider that Beckham and Jarvis Landry are best friends who played together at LSU, and their WR coach will be Adam Henry, who was their receivers coach at LSU and who has had a lot of success in a short time with the Browns, it makes you think those two could be something special. Especially when teamed with Baker Mayfield. The Browns' price for the Beckham deal was steep, but the Browns got what they wanted, and what they could afford.

Olivier Vernon ... talented, but mostly underperforming. Kevin Zeitler ... talented, but mostly underperforming. It's kind of a wash. If the Browns can get anything more out of Vernon, their D-line is going to be scary, with Myles Garrett and the addition of Sheldon Richardson.

Did the Giants get the better of the deals? Probably, but it also depends to some degree on how their draft picks pan out.

Here's where I really love what Shurmur did. Beckham is a diva. A "brand" who cares about one thing and one thing only ... himself. He's also been a pain in Shurmur's a$$ from Day One, repeatedly and openly hostile toward his coach in front of the team. And y'know what? Shurmur is having none of it. I give him credit for ridding the Giants of someone who refuses to row in the same direction as the rest of the team. And I give the Mara family and Dave Gettelman credit for allowing him to do it. Beckham is a generational talent, but no team can survive with a self-serving diva who openly undermines the coach. It's about time that a team not named the New England Patriots quit coddling players like Beckham.

I agree when it comes to the coddling for sure. I’m glad a team stepped up. I guess the only thing I didn’t understand here is how is Zeitler mostly underperforming? He was literally the #1 pass blocking guard in football last year and the #6 overall guard. And he’s been good for quite some time now. I remember wanting him when he was leaving Cincy. The guy is far from underperforming IMO. He’s one of the best guards in football. Vernon, I agree 100%. He’s the definition of underperforming. Simply a guy that flashed at the dolphins for a few years and came back down to earth. You see that a lot with guys in this league

[CharVike]

Vikes were pretty tight under the cap before resigning Barr. Does anyone have an update on where this deal puts them?

As far as the move goes, Barr is definitely a talented player who is in the prime of his career. He has lapses at times, but his athletic ability can't be questioned. It's an astute move from a continuity and team chemistry perspective, and while I can't say I'm super excited about it, it does take some pressure off Rick to find an adequate replacement in the draft or in FA, which would be unlikely given the other needs the team has.

I agree with others that this makes it more likely we're seeing the end of the Griffen era, but we'll know for sure by Friday.

Don't worry about the CAP. The Saints were broke now they have coin. Once we clear the deck with these guys that don't earn their massive CAP hit we will have more than enough. Griff has to go. Massive CAP hit and how can you bank on him. When will he walk again. Great player that has reached the end here.

[StumpHunter]

Vikes were pretty tight under the cap before resigning Barr. Does anyone have an update on where this deal puts them?

As far as the move goes, Barr is definitely a talented player who is in the prime of his career. He has lapses at times, but his athletic ability can't be questioned. It's an astute move from a continuity and team chemistry perspective, and while I can't say I'm super excited about it, it does take some pressure off Rick to find an adequate replacement in the draft or in FA, which would be unlikely given the other needs the team has.

I agree with others that this makes it more likely we're seeing the end of the Griffen era, but we'll know for sure by Friday.

Don't worry about the CAP. The Saints were broke now they have coin. Once we clear the deck with these guys that don't earn their massive CAP hit we will have more than enough. Griff has to go. Massive CAP hit and how can you bank on him. When will he walk again. Great player that has reached the end here.

Next season Griffen won't be worth his contract. This year he is a value at 10 million.

The Saints did bottom out for sure, and could barely manage to get 7 wins with a HOF QB for 3 seasons. I can't stomach 3 seasons in a row of mediocre football because of cap issues brought about in large part because we overpaid a QB.

[CharVike]

And here is another thing. He wasn't even the best QB available. My guess is Foles could have been had for much less via trade that year.

Foles will get his chance. He's a winner, unlike Cousins, so whatever team gets him are in for sure. Same with the winner Case. He's a skin now so they should be in the Champ game. Cousins was the guy holding that joke team back. Guess what Case won't take them anywhere. He should be holding a clip board running the scout team and hopefully you don't ever need him. And talk about a waste of CAP this is the best example.

[StumpHunter]

And here is another thing. He wasn't even the best QB available. My guess is Foles could have been had for much less via trade that year.

Foles will get his chance. He's a winner, unlike Cousins, so whatever team gets him are in for sure. Same with the winner Case. He's a skin now so they should be in the Champ game. Cousins was the guy holding that joke team back. Guess what Case won't take them anywhere. He should be holding a clip board running the scout team and hopefully you don't ever need him. And talk about a waste of CAP this is the best example.

This had nothing to do with Cousins or Case. I was talking about Bradford.

Think about this. The Vikings give KC a 3rd for Foles. He plays well enough for them that the Vikings extend him for a year into 2017 to be a mentor to Mahomes, who they trade up for in the 2017 draft. He isn't on the Eagles in 2017 and we win the SB with Patrick Mahomes in 2017 once Foles goes down to injury and he takes over. Or maybe the Eagles just don't win the SB when Wentz goes down and there is no Foles to be the Super Bowl MVP for them.