My Plan to Fix the Vikings

[Mothman]

OK, I'm sure most of you have seen this, but ... THIS is what we need on the interior of the O-line.

WATCH THIS!

That's not a defensive back that Quenton Nelson is destroying. It's Jadaveon Freaking Clowney!

This is why the Colts selected a GUARD as the No. 6 overall pick and gave him $24 million. How I wish we could find one of these.

Two would be even better.

Wow, "blocking" is almost inadequate to describe that. Thanks for the link.

[Pondering Her Percy]

We have a pass catching TE in Conclin. He's as good as its going to get for a TE in the 6th, 'pass catching' TE or not. Id much rather have these late pics go to Zimmer and the D. At least Zim has the talent to coach them up. Except Kearse. God himself couldnt fix Kearse. Its time to take out the trash this year. And use the good picks-FA on the offensive side of the ball. Zimmer has talent, lets use it.

What is wrong with Kearse? I thought he played fairly well this year as a “big nickel”. Harris and kearse are both solid young pieces on this defense.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I’ll add in an in-depth analysis when I get back from Jamaica tonight. Might even get my way too early mock offseason started this week

[Alaskan]

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/ ... sive-line/

Some interesting info in this article.

I don’t necessarily agree with Coller on drafting skill position over OL. I think they should follow there board and draft BPA.

The o line problems are league problem(CBA). They need more practice time for these young o linemen. They are just nowhere near ready coming out of college, generally speaking.

There is just no way the Vikes are going to put together a mauler o line line some fans are pounding there fist on the the table for. It’s just unrealistic. They could possibly put together something line they had in 2017 under Shurmur and Sparano. They maximized the skill sets of that group. They need to get the right coaches and play callers and put together a system and scheme that compliments the skills of their linemen. That’s about the best we as fans can hope for in the short term.

Problem with that is we still have Curt “the statue” Cousins as our QB who needs elite lineman and skill players all the way down the depth chart to be successful. I think he will go down as one of the most bozo signings in Viking history.

[mansquatch]

I like your Post Alaskan! Your views are similar to my own.

I suspect we are also seeing a shift towards the Lamar Jackson / Mitchel Trubisky type QB who probably isn't the most accurate thrower, but can offset that to some degree by buying time with his legs that the modern OL can't provide.

I suspect we are also seeing greater onus on the running game as defensive teams continue to draft lanky DE who are built to beat OLs designed to defend more traditional pocket passers. A cut runner with speed can get around these guys and mauler OL can put them on their backs.

The NFL is an ever changing competitive meat grinder.

I agree that the major decision this offseason is OC and OL Coach. They need to find the right guy.

[Pondering Her Percy]

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/ ... sive-line/

Some interesting info in this article.

I don’t necessarily agree with Coller on drafting skill position over OL. I think they should follow there board and draft BPA.

The o line problems are league problem(CBA). They need more practice time for these young o linemen. They are just nowhere near ready coming out of college, generally speaking.

There is just no way the Vikes are going to put together a mauler o line line some fans are pounding there fist on the the table for. It’s just unrealistic. They could possibly put together something line they had in 2017 under Shurmur and Sparano. They maximized the skill sets of that group. They need to get the right coaches and play callers and put together a system and scheme that compliments the skills of their linemen. That’s about the best we as fans can hope for in the short term.

Problem with that is we still have Curt “the statue” Cousins as our QB who needs elite lineman and skill players all the way down the depth chart to be successful. I think he will go down as one of the most bozo signings in Viking history.

Agreed we still need to go BPA. We can’t just take OL to take them. That’s when we end up screwing ourselves and passing on legit talent just because we “need” OL.

As for cousins, I don’t think he needs “elite” offensive lineman and playmakers around him to be successful. Do you think he or any QB that would be behind this OL needs a better OL to be successful? Yeah I would say so. This OL surrendered 259 pressures this season. Reiff and Remmers giving up the most of any. Followed by Compton, then Elflein then O’Neill. Reiff and Remmers gave up over 16% of the pressures each. That is really really bad.

Either way, just give the guy a good OL that can hold up. It doesn’t need to be elite. Just get a solid one. I think we have two good pieces in Elflein and O’Neill. We gotta just keep building on that

[Mothman]

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/ ... sive-line/

Some interesting info in this article.

I don’t necessarily agree with Coller on drafting skill position over OL. I think they should follow there board and draft BPA.

The o line problems are league problem(CBA). They need more practice time for these young o linemen. They are just nowhere near ready coming out of college, generally speaking.

There is just no way the Vikes are going to put together a mauler o line line some fans are pounding there fist on the the table for. It’s just unrealistic. They could possibly put together something line they had in 2017 under Shurmur and Sparano. They maximized the skill sets of that group. They need to get the right coaches and play callers and put together a system and scheme that compliments the skills of their linemen. That’s about the best we as fans can hope for in the short term.

Problem with that is we still have Curt “the statue” Cousins as our QB who needs elite lineman and skill players all the way down the depth chart to be successful. I think he will go down as one of the most bozo signings in Viking history.

Thanks for the link.

Coller refers to PFF so much in that article he might as well be working for them but setting that aside...

The problem I have with his take is it's focused on short term thinking. Coller states the Vikings should "be in win-now mode for the rest of Cousins’ tenure at QB" and I think that's precisely the wrong approach. It's the approach Spielman often takes and it leads to desperate moves and ongoing disappointment. This is NOT a team on the verge of winning the Super Bowl with one offseason of shrewd moves. That's a damaging delusion that's continued for years now. I haven't looked closely at the free agent market for o-linemen so it may be true that skill position players are the better bet in that area but the overall approach the Vikings should be taking is one that builds a solid foundation at the line of scrimmage for years to come. They should already be thinking beyond Cousins too, regardless of whether he turns out to be a long term solution.

[StumpHunter]

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/ ... sive-line/

Some interesting info in this article.

I don’t necessarily agree with Coller on drafting skill position over OL. I think they should follow there board and draft BPA.

The o line problems are league problem(CBA). They need more practice time for these young o linemen. They are just nowhere near ready coming out of college, generally speaking.

There is just no way the Vikes are going to put together a mauler o line line some fans are pounding there fist on the the table for. It’s just unrealistic. They could possibly put together something line they had in 2017 under Shurmur and Sparano. They maximized the skill sets of that group. They need to get the right coaches and play callers and put together a system and scheme that compliments the skills of their linemen. That’s about the best we as fans can hope for in the short term.

Problem with that is we still have Curt “the statue” Cousins as our QB who needs elite lineman and skill players all the way down the depth chart to be successful. I think he will go down as one of the most bozo signings in Viking history.

Thanks for the link.

Coller refers to PFF so much in that article he might as well be working for them but setting that aside...

The problem I have with his take is it's focused on short term thinking. Coller states the Vikings should "be in win-now mode for the rest of Cousins’ tenure at QB" and I think that's precisely the wrong approach. It's the approach Spielman often takes and it leads to desperate moves and ongoing disappointment. This is NOT a team on the verge of winning the Super Bowl with one offseason of shrewd moves. That's a damaging delusion that's continued for years now. I haven't looked closely at the free agent market for o-linemen so it may be true that skill position players are the better bet in that area but the overall approach the Vikings should be taking is one that builds a solid foundation at the line of scrimmage for years to come. They should already be thinking beyond Cousins too, regardless of whether he turns out to be a long term solution.

Agree with everything you say here. I think Spielman learned the wrong lesson in the 2009 season, a season where they added one guy and instantly became a SB contender.

They need to be thinking long term, which means BPA in every round, and looking to draft a QB in 2020 if the team is still a borderline playoff team next season. A QB drafted by a new GM.

[Texas Vike]

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/ ... sive-line/

Some interesting info in this article.

I don’t necessarily agree with Coller on drafting skill position over OL. I think they should follow there board and draft BPA.

The o line problems are league problem(CBA). They need more practice time for these young o linemen. They are just nowhere near ready coming out of college, generally speaking.

There is just no way the Vikes are going to put together a mauler o line line some fans are pounding there fist on the the table for. It’s just unrealistic. They could possibly put together something line they had in 2017 under Shurmur and Sparano. They maximized the skill sets of that group. They need to get the right coaches and play callers and put together a system and scheme that compliments the skills of their linemen. That’s about the best we as fans can hope for in the short term.

Problem with that is we still have Curt “the statue” Cousins as our QB who needs elite lineman and skill players all the way down the depth chart to be successful. I think he will go down as one of the most bozo signings in Viking history.

Interesting article. While I agree with the author's argument that a #3 WR & a difference making TE would significantly help this team, NOT drafting an Offensive Lineman in the 1st round based his rationale (namely, that few rookie OL excel in year 1) is ridiculous. That's essentially what we have been doing--and what we did with Treadwell.

If Cody Ford is available at 18, I want him. If another highly ranked G is high on their board, take him. But I do agree that this draft is strong on DT, in particular, and who knows what we're planning to do with Sheldon. Everson is another major question mark. If there's a nasty difference maker at #18, you have to take him. But we also need to commit resources (draft picks, preferably) to the OL... we've neglected it for years. Cousin's isn't mobile and he's our QB for the next two years. We better figure out how to protect him better.

[Mothman]

Interesting article. While I agree with the author's argument that a #3 WR & a difference making TE would significantly help this team, NOT drafting an Offensive Lineman in the 1st round based his rationale (namely, that few rookie OL excel in year 1) is ridiculous. That's essentially what we have been doing--and what we did with Treadwell.

If Cody Ford is available at 18, I want him. If another highly ranked G is high on their board, take him. But I do agree that this draft is strong on DT, in particular, and who knows what we're planning to do with Sheldon. Everson is another major question mark. If there's a nasty difference maker at #18, you have to take him. But we also need to commit resources (draft picks, preferably) to the OL... we've neglected it for years. Cousin's isn't mobile and he's our QB for the next two years. We better figure out how to protect him better.

Well said. Not only do they need to protect the QB better, they had one of the league's least productive rushing attacks in 2018. A better line should help improve that too. Building a strong OL is simply better for the team's long term effectiveness.

Not to but the idea that the team needs to make moves in pursuit of a narrowing championship window is almost poisonous, in my view. As I've been saying for a long time, that's aiming low. It's possible to open a 10+ year championship window and that's what the Vikings should be trying to do. Instead of worrying about making the most of a short window (assuming they're really in one) they should be working to create a sustained window. For example, the Packers have made the playoffs in 19 of the last 26 years. They've played in 7 conference championship games in that span and been to 3 Super Bowls, winning two of them. That's a "championship window"! The Patriots have done even better over the past 25 years. It's possible so why not aim high?

One more point regarding Coller's article. He wrote:

They have two more years of Cousins at quarterback and probably a short window of having an elite defense with players like Linval Joseph, Everson Griffen, Harrison Smith and Xavier Rhodes in their late primes.

In other words, when he immediately followed that paragraph with "They should be in win-now mode for the rest of Cousins’ tenure at QB" he was likely referring to the next two years. However, if Cousins was worth signing to this lucrative contract at all, he should be around for more than the 2 years remaining on it so they don't need to be in "win now" mode immediately based on his deal. That assumes they can keep him upright, of course, but seriously, he's either the kind of QB with whom they can win it all or he isn't. If he IS, he's still young enough to be in MN for more than the next two seasons and if he isn't, there's probably no real championship window there anyway, especially if they don't field better o-lines and solve some of their issues on defense.

[Purplepain2018]

Moderator's note: Purplepain2018, I merged your post below into this thread because there was already a thread about fixing the Vikes and already a discussion about the o-line happening in this thread this morning. Starting new topics is fine but (everyone) please check to see if there is currently a similar conversation occurring before starting a new thread. Thanks! —Jim

Now I know that I am not saying anything here that every Vikings fan already knows..my question is how did Zimmer and Spielman let our offensive line get so bad and did nothing to fix it. It wasn't like this just happened overnight. The Vikings offensive line has been bad for a couple of years now. Just a quick question....who was the last first round pick the Vikings used on an offensive lineman under Zimmer? It was Matt Kalil….who started out good in his first year or two and then his play started to decline.

The Vikings must use two of their top three picks this year in the draft to draft offensive lineman. The line has to get younger, stronger and more athletic and free agency is really not the place for that to happen. Sure, you can sign a free agent on the OL, but they have usually already been in the league for four or five years. The Vikings need to get younger and develop some depth on the OL. The only two players on the OL that are good enough to hang around for 2019 are Elflein, Oneill, and maybe Reiff; other than that they need to start from scratch.

There are plenty of young OL players coming out in the draft that we can draft to help strengthen this unit again. This is why we need a new GM who knows how to work the draft. Spielman tries to get cute like he did last year in drafting Mike Hughes at CB when he knew how bad our OL was. Take a look at the 2018 draft class for the Vikings...how many of those players contributed to the team in 2018? If the Vikings do not draft at least two offensive lineman in the first three picks Speilman needs to be fired.

[mansquatch]

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/ ... sive-line/

Some interesting info in this article.

I don’t necessarily agree with Coller on drafting skill position over OL. I think they should follow there board and draft BPA.

The o line problems are league problem(CBA). They need more practice time for these young o linemen. They are just nowhere near ready coming out of college, generally speaking.

There is just no way the Vikes are going to put together a mauler o line line some fans are pounding there fist on the the table for. It’s just unrealistic. They could possibly put together something line they had in 2017 under Shurmur and Sparano. They maximized the skill sets of that group. They need to get the right coaches and play callers and put together a system and scheme that compliments the skills of their linemen. That’s about the best we as fans can hope for in the short term.

Problem with that is we still have Curt “the statue” Cousins as our QB who needs elite lineman and skill players all the way down the depth chart to be successful. I think he will go down as one of the most bozo signings in Viking history.

Thanks for the link.

Coller refers to PFF so much in that article he might as well be working for them but setting that aside...

The problem I have with his take is it's focused on short term thinking. Coller states the Vikings should "be in win-now mode for the rest of Cousins’ tenure at QB" and I think that's precisely the wrong approach. It's the approach Spielman often takes and it leads to desperate moves and ongoing disappointment. This is NOT a team on the verge of winning the Super Bowl with one offseason of shrewd moves. That's a damaging delusion that's continued for years now. I haven't looked closely at the free agent market for o-linemen so it may be true that skill position players are the better bet in that area but the overall approach the Vikings should be taking is one that builds a solid foundation at the line of scrimmage for years to come. They should already be thinking beyond Cousins too, regardless of whether he turns out to be a long term solution.

WHAT? HE was win now in 2011? 2012? 2013? 2014? 2015? I would say it didn't start until 2016 when they gave up the 1st round pick for Bradford. That doesn't equal often and 2017 proved that if healthy, the team was in a SB window. They finished top 4 in the league. Like it or not, that is elite even if they didn't win it. This year was a step back, but history doesn't support your point of view.

[Texas Vike]

In other words, when he immediately followed that paragraph with "They should be in win-now mode for the rest of Cousins’ tenure at QB" he was likely referring to the next two years. However, if Cousins was worth signing to this lucrative contract at all, he should be around for more than the 2 years remaining on it so they don't need to be in "win now" mode immediately based on his deal. That assumes they can keep him upright, of course, but seriously, he's either the kind of QB with whom they can win it all or he isn't. If he IS, he's still young enough to be in MN for more than the next two seasons and if he isn't, there's probably no real championship window there anyway, especially if they don't field better o-lines and solve some of their issues on defense.

I couldn't agree more strongly, Jim. Coller's argument was based on a flawed premise and reeks of click bait, to be honest. He knows any Vikings fan worth their salt is frothing at the mouth for a revamped OL.

It is true, however, that we could really use a #3 WR and/or TE. I wouldn't mind picking up a FA or drafting at those positions in the mid to late rounds. We've done better at WR w/ later picks/ UDFA anyways. Draft smart, but with your needs in mind: OL, LB, DL and secondarily: TE, WR. I'd love both highly regarded Guards from my Big 12: Ford (OU) and Risener (KSU). I believe they would provide us with the kind of long term window we're envisioning, regardless of who is playing QB.

[Mothman]

WHAT? HE was win now in 2011? 2012? 2013? 2014? 2015? I would say it didn't start until 2016 when they gave up the 1st round pick for Bradford.

GASP! Are we going to split hairs over this now? (Please don't take offense-I'm just trying to have fun with you by matching your all-caps reaction).

I didn't say he was always in that mode but he and the team were certainly in that mode in 2010. It would have been absurd to think that way in 2011 and there wasn't much reason to be in it for several seasons after that. I agree, he was definitely in that mode when they traded for Bradford and I think he's shown that sort of thinking ever since so that's at least 4 seasons out of the last 9. If that's not often enough to justify my use of the word "often" then I'll happily withdraw it. The point is the short term thinking is both short-sighted and damaging.

That doesn't equal often and 2017 proved that if healthy, the team was in a SB window. This year was a step back, but history doesn't support your point of view.

I disagree. Top 4 doesn't = SB window, at least not in my book. To be considered an actual Super Bowl contender, I think a team needs to contend and be competitive when the opportunity is there, they have to look genuinely capable of winning the Super Bowl. The 2017 Vikings were a good team but in championship terms, they ended up pretenders, not contenders, just like the 2000 Vikes. I know that sounds harsh but I don't think it's unfair. Was a team that lost the NFCC 38-7 really a legitimate threat to win the Super Bowl?

[Mothman]

I couldn't agree more strongly, Jim. Coller's argument was based on a flawed premise and reeks of click bait, to be honest. He knows any Vikings fan worth their salt is frothing at the mouth for a revamped OL.

I'm sure he does so maybe he was doing some pot-stirring.

It is true, however, that we could really use a #3 WR and/or TE. I wouldn't mind picking up a FA or drafting at those positions in the mid to late rounds. We've done better at WR w/ later picks/ UDFA anyways. Draft smart, but with your needs in mind: OL, LB, DL and secondarily: TE, WR. I'd love both highly regarded Guards from my Big 12: Ford (OU) and Risener (KSU). I believe they would provide us with the kind of long term window we're envisioning, regardless of who is playing QB.

That's what I want to see! I'll have to look into those two guards. I didn't see much college football this year and i don't think I saw any Big 12 games.