Is Kirk Cousins the leader you want?

[Alaskan]

We should also consider pulling a Brock Osweiller. Somebody might view Cousins as a bit of an upgrade or take him as a salary dump if compensated. I would seriously make an effort to dump him and bring in Foles or Bridgewater.

Great idea! I was thinking along these lines as well. In addition, Another though I had was making a push for Wentz. Pretty much a hometown kid. If Foles keeps up his current play, Philly might consider it.

I wasn’t at all a fan of the Cousins deal. Not as much because of the contract the market was demanding for him as it was his skill set pre and post snap. Others have pointed out most of those shortcomings in various threads already so I won’t get into details here. I also just don’t see him being any sort of a real leader of football men. I would love to see the Vikings make a bold move for a real franchise QB.

[Texas Vike]

So after the emotional reactions that I was going through yesterday, I wanted to ask the question about Kirk Cousins, not necessarily from a playing standpoint but from a personality and leadership standpoint.

[...]

My worry is that he is here for another two years because of his contract. Could this affect the overall make up of the team, especially when I'm not sure we can identify clear leaders on the offensive side of the ball? Not every quarterback has to be a charismatic leader but they have to be a likable person and I have doubts on whether Cousins is that person.

I also want to point out that obviously this is a lot of speculation and just based on perceptions and there is no way of knowing the actual truth unless you had honest sources from the inside, but I thought a discussion on Cousin's intangible qualities might be worthwhile.

Interesting thread topic.

I agree that his trademarking of that line is odd. My read on Cousins is that he is a really intelligent and eloquent guy. He's the son of a pastor and it shows: he's wholesome as apple pie. I think part of the reason he opted for MN over NJ is due to his values and the kind of place he wants to call home for his family. I'm fine with those qualities, but I also perceive a seriously uptight, planning everything, control-freak tendency in him and I don't think it serves him well, overall. Being organized and disciplined is great, but he seems to be an extreme case where all of the 'homework' is an outward reflection of neurosis. It's as if he fears spontaneity and acting without forethought or simply reacting in the moment and out of instinct more than rational thought. In another thread a few of us were discussing these tendencies and how he's essentially the opposite of Favre on these points. Cousins seems better in hurry up to me, because it forces him to be in the present a bit more and get out of his own head.

There were some signs of friction with teammates on Sunday that we hadn't seen much of previously: the sideline argument with Thielen, the on field disagreement with Cook, etc. But I think we fans have a tendency to blow these things up a bit too much.

Just to bring in some counter arguments to your opening post: didn't the team ask Cousins to lead the pre-game 'get psyched' talk during the early part of the season? Did that continue?

You mention that you get a politician vibe from him, specifically that he seems insincere. I get that vibe a bit, but not too much. I think he's just so much more articulate than most NFL players and coaches. I've seen pressers where he DOES take the blame. I think it's fair for him to also point out that his success or failure depends on other units doing their jobs too. He doesn't strike me as someone who misrepresents reality--neither exaggerating his own deeds, nor painting those of his teammates more negatively than others might perceive them.

Ultimately, I think he has traits that could lend themselves to being a good leader, but it starts with performance, not words. He's exceptional at the latter but not the former yet... I'd like to see him DO more and talk less. His record in prime time games concerns me quite a lot, and I think it goes back to the anxiety / tightly wound personality mentioned previously.

[TSonn]

I would love to see the Vikings make a bold move for a real franchise QB.

Like it or not, they made that bold move last year with getting Cousins. Seems like a majority of fans and sports analysts think it didn't work out at this point.

I still think we are fine with Cousins as long as we improve the OL. I think we maybe got spoiled the last time we brought in a franchise QB (Favre) and he took us to the championship game in his first season with us. Cousins was going to have a hard time doing that this year with our line and our ridiculous schedule. I think he fell short of expectations (I had us losing first round of the playoffs at the beginning of the year) but I also didn't predict the line would be this bad.

[Alaskan]

I would love to see the Vikings make a bold move for a real franchise QB.

Like it or not, they made that bold move last year with getting Cousins. Seems like a majority of fans and sports analysts think it didn't work out at this point.

I still think we are fine with Cousins as long as we improve the OL. I think we maybe got spoiled the last time we brought in a franchise QB (Favre) and he took us to the championship game in his first season with us. Cousins was going to have a hard time doing that this year with our line and our ridiculous schedule. I think he fell short of expectations (I had us losing first round of the playoffs at the beginning of the year) but I also didn't predict the line would be this bad.

I can understand the though that bringing in the Hot FA in Kirk Cousins was a bold move. That’s what the talking heads fed us all last offseason. I just don’t agree is all. I think it was more of a Bozo move. The o line was historically bad, no question. It’s effect on the offense significant. Not going to argue that. Even if we fix it, I don’t see Coisins leading us anywhere. Just not a fan of his. No amount of cherry picked stats will change my mind. My guess is the end game here in the Cousins era is a disappointed fan base, and some people losing there job. All while the championship window that we are supposedly in will be all but closed.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

I'm not impressed with his lack of poise and composure. Nor, I'm sure, is anybody on his team. When you get skittish and squirrely, I think you lose the respect of your teammates, and I think those are words that describe Kirk accurately. That panicked backward pass to Murray was sort of an icon for what kind of QB Cousins is. All the rest of it just doesn't matter much. He's not a guy people will follow. They need to draft a QB this year and Kirk cannot be the guaranteed starter in 2020. In fact, they need to bench him in 2019 if he isn't looking a whole lot better.

Yes, I agree that is the impression I get as well. I think Aikman spoke to that a little on the telecast. He talked about how Cousins has his day planned in increments of 10 minutes. He basically said that he was wound too tight as a personality and even Zimmer has told him that sometimes he needs to just go out there and play. Part of my issue with that is, in a game where there are too many variables and things break down too often, there is only so much planning and preparation that can account for success. The ability to improvise and roll with things when they don't go your way is an important leadership quality and my concern is, if he is wound that tight, has a brain coach, and generally seems to be a guy who is lacking in physical and mental improvisational skills, how much success can you have in the game and how much are your teammates going to look at that and not see those as leadership qualities or trust you in clutch situations. Some of this seems to be playing out with his record in big games and possibly overthinking things too much.

Yep, I like some of you have that same "insincere" feeling about Cousins...that politician feel. But, I also admit that it's speculative. It's just a feelin I get. As a leader, you have to find a way to exude confidence when you get it that huddle. Not panic. Some guys can do by what they say, and others can do it just be their outward demeanor. You have to be able to get in the huddle and communicate that "we got this" without actually saying it.

Cousins has a lot of the tools, but in my opinion he is the example of getting too caught up in the "combine stuff" and not seeing the intangibles. It's not always about how far you can jump, how far you can reach, how fast you can run, how accurate you can throw, etc. Sometimes you just need to be able to be able to look a player in the eyes and see what's inside. Is he a winner? From my living room, on my TV, I don't see that.

This team needs a lot of work right now, and when/if they fix it, I think I'd rather have someone else at QB leading it. I think we have two more years to see if we're right or wrong about him. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

[V Vette]

NO....not at all...next question...

[MikethePurple]

So after the emotional reactions that I was going through yesterday, I wanted to ask the question about Kirk Cousins, not necessarily from a playing standpoint but from a personality and leadership standpoint.

[...]

My worry is that he is here for another two years because of his contract. Could this affect the overall make up of the team, especially when I'm not sure we can identify clear leaders on the offensive side of the ball? Not every quarterback has to be a charismatic leader but they have to be a likable person and I have doubts on whether Cousins is that person.

I also want to point out that obviously this is a lot of speculation and just based on perceptions and there is no way of knowing the actual truth unless you had honest sources from the inside, but I thought a discussion on Cousin's intangible qualities might be worthwhile.

Just to bring in some counter arguments to your opening post: didn't the team ask Cousins to lead the pre-game 'get psyched' talk during the early part of the season? Did that continue?

.....

Ultimately, I think he has traits that could lend themselves to being a good leader, but it starts with performance, not words. He's exceptional at the latter but not the former yet... I'd like to see him DO more and talk less. His record in prime time games concerns me quite a lot, and I think it goes back to the anxiety / tightly wound personality mentioned previously.

In terms of the "get psyched" type of pre-game talk. I'm actually not sure how that came about but I assume the team requested he handle this. I know that he has done them throughout the year and I actually think I heard audio of this one. This, like most of the subjects in this thread are speculative, but it seems to me like them wanting him to take that leadership role because he is the quarterback rather than him having those particular vocal leader qualities. The psych ups that I have heard lack the energy and charisma from one such as Everson Griffen. There have been a number of interviews where Cousins is kind of portrayed as a dad joke, loving, nerd, whose "swagger is that he has not swagger" (that was actually something he said that Jay Gruden said about him and he agreed with). Once again, I don't want to say that just because he doesn't have these specific qualities that he can't be a good leader, but it just makes me want to ask the question.

Ultimately, I agree with you that it is more important to show it with performance on the field as opposed to being a good hype man. I've heard some pre-game speeches from Jameis Winston that showed a lot of charisma but from what we have seen about him, I wouldn't consider him a good leader on or off the field. I think that anxiety/ tightly wound personality is basically the intangible that concerns me the most. All of that would matter much more than the energy he shows in the pre-game hype speech.

[MikethePurple]

Yes, I agree that is the impression I get as well. I think Aikman spoke to that a little on the telecast. He talked about how Cousins has his day planned in increments of 10 minutes. He basically said that he was wound too tight as a personality and even Zimmer has told him that sometimes he needs to just go out there and play. Part of my issue with that is, in a game where there are too many variables and things break down too often, there is only so much planning and preparation that can account for success. The ability to improvise and roll with things when they don't go your way is an important leadership quality and my concern is, if he is wound that tight, has a brain coach, and generally seems to be a guy who is lacking in physical and mental improvisational skills, how much success can you have in the game and how much are your teammates going to look at that and not see those as leadership qualities or trust you in clutch situations. Some of this seems to be playing out with his record in big games and possibly overthinking things too much.

Yep, I like some of you have that same "insincere" feeling about Cousins...that politician feel. But, I also admit that it's speculative. It's just a feelin I get. As a leader, you have to find a way to exude confidence when you get it that huddle. Not panic. Some guys can do by what they say, and others can do it just be their outward demeanor. You have to be able to get in the huddle and communicate that "we got this" without actually saying it.

Cousins has a lot of the tools, but in my opinion he is the example of getting too caught up in the "combine stuff" and not seeing the intangibles. It's not always about how far you can jump, how far you can reach, how fast you can run, how accurate you can throw, etc. Sometimes you just need to be able to be able to look a player in the eyes and see what's inside. Is he a winner? From my living room, on my TV, I don't see that.

This team needs a lot of work right now, and when/if they fix it, I think I'd rather have someone else at QB leading it. I think we have two more years to see if we're right or wrong about him. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Yes, it kind of is a moot point I suppose because he is here for two years but still interesting. And I also want to reiterate these questions I have are not to say that he seems like a bad guy or anything like that. These are all based on public perceptions and can be completely off. It wouldn't be fair to think we can completely describe who a guy is based on such a small and public perception but these are just observation and certain "feelings" I get and his leadership is an important quality. Hopefully his performance steps up next year!

[vikeinmontana]

If he has a great 2nd season and leads us deep in the playoffs then yes...

[PurpleKoolaid]

Its so annoying to read posts where people say 'if we had a better Oline and run game, Cousins would be good'. ANY QB in the NFL with a good Oline and run game, are going to play well. And we wouldnt have to pay them a billion dollars.

[PurpleMustReign]

Its so annoying to read posts where people say 'if we had a better Oline and run game, Cousins would be good'. ANY QB in the NFL with a good Oline and run game, are going to play well. And we wouldnt have to pay them a billion dollars.

Exactly.
You don't need an $84 million QB to win. You need a player who knows how to play the game and can make plays.

[TSonn]

It seems like there's a lot of Nostradamas "the world is ending" hyberbole going on in here. Sure, Cousins had an underwhelming season (albeit stats-wise it was one of the best seasons ever by a Vikings QB) but I think Rick is playing the long game here. Last offseason he had a few options for QBs and he also knew that we had a shaky offensive line. With that information he could either go for a more mobile QB to make up for the deficiencies with the offensive line or go get a pocket passer and work on improving the line over the next few years. Pocket passers have far more success in the NFL than mobile passers (at least so far... Mahomes could change that all) and so he chose the more prototypical pocket passer in Cousins over Keenum and Bridgewater.

Now, I'm not saying this was absolutely the right move (and he must improve the offensive line for the Cousins signing to make any bit of sense) but it seems like a lot of people are selling their Google stock in the first year because it failed to overtake Yahoo immediately.

[PurpleMustReign]

It seems like there's a lot of Nostradamas "the world is ending" hyberbole going on in here. Sure, Cousins had an underwhelming season (albeit stats-wise it was one of the best seasons ever by a Vikings QB) but I think Rick is playing the long game here. Last offseason he had a few options for QBs and he also knew that we had a shaky offensive line. With that information he could either go for a more mobile QB to make up for the deficiencies with the offensive line or go get a pocket passer and work on improving the line over the next few years. Pocket passers have far more success in the NFL than mobile passers (at least so far... Mahomes could change that all) and so he chose the more prototypical pocket passer in Cousins over Keenum and Bridgewater.

Now, I'm not saying this was absolutely the right move (and he must improve the offensive line for the Cousins signing to make any bit of sense) but it seems like a lot of people are selling their Google stock in the first year because it failed to overtake Yahoo immediately.

Signing Cousins and dumping Case was not as popular of a move as people think. After this season, I don't know how anyone can not feel like that.

[StumpHunter]

It seems like there's a lot of Nostradamas "the world is ending" hyberbole going on in here. Sure, Cousins had an underwhelming season (albeit stats-wise it was one of the best seasons ever by a Vikings QB) but I think Rick is playing the long game here. Last offseason he had a few options for QBs and he also knew that we had a shaky offensive line. With that information he could either go for a more mobile QB to make up for the deficiencies with the offensive line or go get a pocket passer and work on improving the line over the next few years. Pocket passers have far more success in the NFL than mobile passers (at least so far... Mahomes could change that all) and so he chose the more prototypical pocket passer in Cousins over Keenum and Bridgewater.

Now, I'm not saying this was absolutely the right move (and he must improve the offensive line for the Cousins signing to make any bit of sense) but it seems like a lot of people are selling their Google stock in the first year because it failed to overtake Yahoo immediately.

Playing the long game by back loading a bunch of contracts, forcing us to cut players who are still playing well and letting others walk because they are too expensive? Seems like he went all in this year, but that is just me.

Pocket passers have far more success in the NFL than mobile passers (at least so far... Mahomes could change that all) and so he chose the more prototypical pocket passer in Cousins over Keenum and Bridgewater.

7 of the 12 playoff QBs are guys who buy time with their legs.

Brady and Brees help their lines by getting rid of the ball quickly

Goff, Rivers and Foles have offensive lines that we can only dream of. If we get a line as good as theirs we might have a chance. Good luck with that.

I think you should seriously reconsider your take that it is better to have a QB who is a statue than one who can buy time with his legs.

[TSonn]

Signing Cousins and dumping Case was not as popular of a move as people think. After this season, I don't know how anyone can not feel like that.

I wasn't trying to say it was necessarily a "popular" move to sign Cousins, though it seemed like a majority of sports analysts thought it was the right move considering the options.

Brady and Brees help their lines by getting rid of the ball quickly

Goff, Rivers and Foles have offensive lines that we can only dream of. If we get a line as good as theirs we might have a chance. Good luck with that.

I think you should seriously reconsider your take that it is better to have a QB who is a statue than one who can buy time with his legs.

It's not really "my take". I mean, we're talking about winning a super bowl, right? Not just making the playoffs? Look at the last 12 super bowl QBs:

Foles, Brady
Brady, Ryan
Manning, Newton
Brady, Wilson
Wilson, Manning
Flacco, Kaepernick
Manning, Brady
Rodgers, Roethlisberger
Brees, Manning
Roethlisberger, Warner
Manning, Brady
Manning, Grossman

It keeps going like that. I admit that the NFL may be moving towards a more mobile-friendly QB, but it seems like it's always trying to do that (lots of people thought Kaepernick was going to be the "future of QBs") but it seems to always come back to pocket passers. I agree that most of these pocket passer QBs have great offensive lines, but if we're talking about winning the super bowl we're gonna need one of those either way. I'd like to have a guy like Cousins behind a solid line rather than a guy like Keenum. Again, though, this is all assuming Spielman plans (and succeeds) in upgrading the line over the next two seasons.