Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

[VikingLord]

Prior to the season starting, people were talking Superbowl contention for this team, but we still don't know how this group of players and coaches is going to finish out this year. I think the questions about who to extend, who to let go, etc., all will come into better focus based on the outcome of the 2018 campaign.

As far as the Thielen contract situation goes, he's due to make more for sure. I'm sure the Vikes will find a way to offer him an extension that is cap-friendly while still allowing him to get paid what he's due and so everybody is happy and the Vikings can still retain other guys they feel are key to their chances.

[StumpHunter]

Yes the guys are replaceable but that eats into available cap and I don't think all are replaceable with like wise talent. Our Safety depth will be worst next season if none are resigned.

I mean we'll still have Kearse who can play back there. Iloka is definitely gone. .He can land a good contract somewhere. Unless we decide to dump Sendejo and keep him but I doubt it. Kearse has turned into Zim's version of Iloka now. Harris would be the one to get back. OL is going to need a re-build for the most part. Especially at the guard position so I would think we draft there. Sherels can come back on a minimum deal. Same with Tom Johnson I would think. Or Jaleel improves along with Holmes and we go that route. Robinson is whatever. Backup QB, we can find someone similar to Siemien. Wile is replaceable. And FB's are a dime a dozen. The main thing is OL. I wouldnt mind keeping a guy like Jones for depth. Hill can walk for all I care. Same with Compton (or at best depth).

I say priorities are as follows for in house guys:

1.) Richardson
2.) Murray
3.) Harris
4.) Bailey
5.) Jones
6.) Johnson
7.) Sherels
8.) Compton, Easton (cant trust him after 2 major injuries), Robinson, Wile, Hill, Ham, Siemien, etc

X.) Iloka only if we let Sendejo walk.

This is far from being on of those years where we will have to let a bunch of studs walk. It shows us with about 10-12 million in cap space (based on spotrac and overthecap) going into next years offseason. This will also be dependent on veterans that we let go. Bryzinski is a cap genius. So I'm not worried. Like I said if we had guys like Hunter, Thielen, Diggs and Cook all up for contracts and were hurting on cap space, then yeah, I'd be worried. But this is more than manageable I think. Especially with Bryzinski. Philly has gone into the past few offseason with under $1 million in cap or even in the negative and still make it work for the most part. It's definitely doable

It isn't just about losing the star players though. Championships are won by teams who have depth and can absorb the inevitable injury to those stud players though. Every time you cut a starting vet and promote his backup who might be just as good, your depth takes a hit. Every time you decide Tom Johnson is just to expensive to sign as a backup DT, you are killing your depth. When you have to rely only on the draft to find Oline, and can’t bring in a vet who could compete for a starting spot, you are killing your depth.

Prime example of this is back in 2016, the Vikings cut Sullivan because Berger was making a fraction of his salary and was just as good. Seemed like a smart move at the time, but what happened when we started to experience injuries on the line and Berger, our best backup at pretty much every spot, was already starting at center? That ended up being a significant cut to make room for an overpaid QB, pretty much destroying the small chance we still had of making the playoffs.

[StumpHunter]

Prior to the season starting, people were talking Superbowl contention for this team, but we still don't know how this group of players and coaches is going to finish out this year. I think the questions about who to extend, who to let go, etc., all will come into better focus based on the outcome of the 2018 campaign.

As far as the Thielen contract situation goes, he's due to make more for sure. I'm sure the Vikes will find a way to offer him an extension that is cap-friendly while still allowing him to get paid what he's due and so everybody is happy and the Vikings can still retain other guys they feel are key to their chances.

That has been their MO in previous years. It will be difficult now with how much the QB is making.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I mean we'll still have Kearse who can play back there. Iloka is definitely gone. .He can land a good contract somewhere. Unless we decide to dump Sendejo and keep him but I doubt it. Kearse has turned into Zim's version of Iloka now. Harris would be the one to get back. OL is going to need a re-build for the most part. Especially at the guard position so I would think we draft there. Sherels can come back on a minimum deal. Same with Tom Johnson I would think. Or Jaleel improves along with Holmes and we go that route. Robinson is whatever. Backup QB, we can find someone similar to Siemien. Wile is replaceable. And FB's are a dime a dozen. The main thing is OL. I wouldnt mind keeping a guy like Jones for depth. Hill can walk for all I care. Same with Compton (or at best depth).

I say priorities are as follows for in house guys:

1.) Richardson
2.) Murray
3.) Harris
4.) Bailey
5.) Jones
6.) Johnson
7.) Sherels
8.) Compton, Easton (cant trust him after 2 major injuries), Robinson, Wile, Hill, Ham, Siemien, etc

X.) Iloka only if we let Sendejo walk.

This is far from being on of those years where we will have to let a bunch of studs walk. It shows us with about 10-12 million in cap space (based on spotrac and overthecap) going into next years offseason. This will also be dependent on veterans that we let go. Bryzinski is a cap genius. So I'm not worried. Like I said if we had guys like Hunter, Thielen, Diggs and Cook all up for contracts and were hurting on cap space, then yeah, I'd be worried. But this is more than manageable I think. Especially with Bryzinski. Philly has gone into the past few offseason with under $1 million in cap or even in the negative and still make it work for the most part. It's definitely doable

It isn't just about losing the star players though. Championships are won by teams who have depth and can absorb the inevitable injury to those stud players though. Every time you cut a starting vet and promote his backup who might be just as good, your depth takes a hit. Every time you decide Tom Johnson is just to expensive to sign as a backup DT, you are killing your depth. When you have to rely only on the draft to find Oline, and can’t bring in a vet who could compete for a starting spot, you are killing your depth.

Prime example of this is back in 2016, the Vikings cut Sullivan because Berger was making a fraction of his salary and was just as good. Seemed like a smart move at the time, but what happened when we started to experience injuries on the line and Berger, our best backup at pretty much every spot, was already starting at center? That ended up being a significant cut to make room for an overpaid QB, pretty much destroying the small chance we still had of making the playoffs.

Well yeah I completely get that but everything is based on the offseason and how well you draft. We might let a guy like Tom Johnson walk, but land a decent DT in the 4th. Or let Anthony Harris walk, but land a safety in the 5th. To say that our depth is taking a hit is quite obvious. Every teams depth takes a hit come free agency. But teams make up for it if you draft right and manage your money correctly. But the main thing is, yeah getting your start players back. That is Sheldon Richardson. Which I believe we can do.

Either way, paying Bradford big money compared to paying Cousins big money, also isnt comparable. We have a QB that justifies the money he is getting. Back then we didnt. This team is going to have a hole or two somewhere. Every team is this league has that. But many teams dont have a franchise QB. We do. I'm happy with it. If it causes our safety depth or LB depth, etc to lose a little, so be it. I still pay Kirk Cousins 84 mill. Any day of the week. It's not effecting the overall team enough to say so. Might hit our depth a bit but overall, we have the core of this team back for a few years still. Keep signing and drafting right and we are still SB contenders for many years to come

[S197]

I'm starting to think Richardson's contract is going to be much more than Barr's. And that gives me pause. I know a disruptive 3-tech is key to this defense but I think it will come down to how much each commands in free agency, and I wouldn't be surprised if they want to test the waters.

[StumpHunter]

I'm starting to think Richardson's contract is going to be much more than Barr's. And that gives me pause. I know a disruptive 3-tech is key to this defense but I think it will come down to how much each commands in free agency, and I wouldn't be surprised if they want to test the waters.

I think people are over valuing Richardson imo. He has been decent at DT, that is about it.

[StumpHunter]

We have a QB that justifies the money he is getting. Back then we didnt. This team is going to have a hole or two somewhere. Every team is this league has that. But many teams dont have a franchise QB. We do. I'm happy with it. If it causes our safety depth or LB depth, etc to lose a little, so be it. I still pay Kirk Cousins 84 mill. Any day of the week. It's not effecting the overall team enough to say so. Might hit our depth a bit but overall, we have the core of this team back for a few years still. Keep signing and drafting right and we are still SB contenders for many years to come

And to me, he has not justified that money. He has yet to show he can make a team significantly better like a Wilson, Brady, Rogers, Brees or Big Ben, but he makes as much or more than them (outside of 2020 with Rogers). That could all change if he wins the SB or takes us deep into the playoffs most years, but until then, he hasn’t earned his contract. A contract that hurts the rest of the team.

[Pondering Her Percy]

We have a QB that justifies the money he is getting. Back then we didnt. This team is going to have a hole or two somewhere. Every team is this league has that. But many teams dont have a franchise QB. We do. I'm happy with it. If it causes our safety depth or LB depth, etc to lose a little, so be it. I still pay Kirk Cousins 84 mill. Any day of the week. It's not effecting the overall team enough to say so. Might hit our depth a bit but overall, we have the core of this team back for a few years still. Keep signing and drafting right and we are still SB contenders for many years to come

And to me, he has not justified that money. He has yet to show he can make a team significantly better like a Wilson, Brady, Rogers, Brees or Big Ben, but he makes as much or more than them (outside of 2020 with Rogers). That could all change if he wins the SB or takes us deep into the playoffs most years, but until then, he hasn’t earned his contract. A contract that hurts the rest of the team.

Rodgers is currently 3-4-1. And should've been beat by Cousins if we had a kicker that was worth a damn. Cousins also outplayed Rodgers by a mile and was on the road. Not saying Cousins is a better QB than Rodgers, but my point is, the Packers arent all that great right now. Seattle is much worse than they have been in the past now that their defense has been depleted. They have beat the Raiders, Cardinals, Cowboys and Lions. Those teams have a combined record of 9-23.

Of course, the Seahawks or Packers without Wilson or Rodgers are both considerably worse. But you also cant sit here and tell me the Vikings would currently be 5-3-1 or better with Case Keenum at the helm. He's currently 3-6 in Denver. And has thrown 11 TDs and 10 INTs. It was a fluke of a year last year with him and you and everyone else on here knows that. Our options were Cousins, Keenum, Bradford or Bridgewater in the offseason. The pick out of those 4 couldnt be an easier decision. Bradford is probably done for his career now, Bridgewater hasnt played in a regular season game in 3 years and is a giant question mark and Keenum was a one year wonder that has been wildly inconsistent over his career and will eventually turn into a backup again. Cousins has been very consistent over his career. None of the other 3 have. I dont understand how you or anyone else can POSSIBLY think any of the other 3 were a better option. So in turn, if you want the best option, you gotta put the money out there to get him. We did what we HAD to do.

Again, you end your post with, a contract that hurts the rest of the team. How is it hurting the team currently or even into next year. I just provided a list of who will be free agents. You're acting like we're losing half our team because of this. That's not even close to being true. And we have the following signed from 2020 and beyond:

Cousins
Hunter
Diggs
Rhodes
Griffen
Reiff
Smith
Joseph
Kendricks
Thielen
Hughes
Cook
Oneill
Elflein
Holton Hill

That is the heart and soul of this team signed up to and beyond 2020. This team is set for quite some time. And dont be surprised that if Cousins continues to perform, they extend him and drop his number going into year 3. Which then saves us money from 2020 and beyond to continue handing out extensions. You're simply looking at "$84 million" and saying it hurts the team without actually looking at what this team has coming back for years to come. It's hard to say Cousins has "earned his money" quite yet because we're only in week 10 of his first year with us but so far, I make that deal any day of the week. And 99% of the fans on here would agree

[720pete]

And to me, he has not justified that money. He has yet to show he can make a team significantly better like a Wilson, Brady, Rogers, Brees or Big Ben, but he makes as much or more than them (outside of 2020 with Rogers). That could all change if he wins the SB or takes us deep into the playoffs most years, but until then, he hasn’t earned his contract. A contract that hurts the rest of the team.

What? Where do you think we would be if this team had Keenum starting at $18 million per season like Denver signed him to? 2-6? 3-5 at best maybe.

Rodgers: 2,542 yds 60% comp 15 td 1 int
Cousins: 2,685 yds 71% comp 17 td 5 int

[Pondering Her Percy]

And to me, he has not justified that money. He has yet to show he can make a team significantly better like a Wilson, Brady, Rogers, Brees or Big Ben, but he makes as much or more than them (outside of 2020 with Rogers). That could all change if he wins the SB or takes us deep into the playoffs most years, but until then, he hasn’t earned his contract. A contract that hurts the rest of the team.

What? Where do you think we would be if this team had Keenum starting at $18 million per season like Denver signed him to? 2-6? 3-5 at best maybe.

Rodgers: 2,542 yds 60% comp 15 td 1 int
Cousins: 2,685 yds 71% comp 17 td 5 int

Exactly. And Rodgers isnt having his best year that's for sure. There isnt a QB out there that can "do it all" for their team. StumpHunter you are narrowing everything down to being on Cousins shoulders. And because he didnt beat the Rams, Packers, Bills and Saints, he isnt worth $84 million. Every loss, every win you're putting on Cousins. That's just simply not how it works

Aaron Rodgers of all QB's. "The best QB in the game" (which I dont believe), is 3-4-1. Are you going to sit there and say he isnt worth his contract either? And dont bother going down the line of his past years. This guy is crowned the best QB in the game and has been to and won ONE superbowl in 13 seasons. And this is his 14th and I can guarantee they wont be in the SB. How does that define him as the best? Tom Brady walks all over him. But if you want to say that Cousins doesnt deserve that contract, how does Aaron Rodgers when his team is 3-4-1? Your argument doesnt add up.

Contracts arent given out to QBs based on wins/losses. It's based on overall talent. What has Matt Ryan won? Matt Stafford? Jimmy G? Derek Carr? Andrew Luck? Cam Newton? Andy Dalton? Alex Smith? Because all of those QB are the ones making the most money over their entire span of their contract. That right there proves, contracts arent based on winning and losing. Matt Stafford and Derek Carr have been FAR from winners since they've been in the league.

Cousins contract was based on the market. A QB of Cousins caliber hardly EVER hits FA. And when you have a need there and have the money to give, you pull the trigger. Not settle for "Teddy and a solid backup". Again, Kirk Cousins is the only reason we were in games with the Rams and Packers both on the road. Keenum, Bridgewater or Bradford arent going toe to toe with the Rams or coming back from a deficit and taking the Packers to OT solely by themselves. And that's what Cousins did. Special teams and defense are what lost us those games. Not Kirk Cousins.

But I sure hope you dont give me some excuse as to why Aaron Rodgers is 3-4-1 but deserves the "best in the game" title. Blame it on their defense? Well ours was playing below average early on too. Blame it on the OL? Well ours sucks too. Blame it on their running game? We didnt have a running game the first 5 games of the year. Since week 5 we have gone 4-1 and the one loss, was drastically derailed by one play, Thielens fumble. The pick 6 didnt help but Thielen not fumbling and us getting a TD there gives us a 20-10 lead going into half getting the ball back. TOTALLY different game and TOTALLY different game plan coming out of the half. Chances are that pick 6 doesnt even happen.

Kirk Cousins is playing at a pro bowl level right now. So the last thing anyone should be doing is complaining. This team is now starting to hit their stride. We are now 6th in total defense. 11th against the pass. 4th against the run. Our offense is 12th in total offense. 8th best passing offense and 29th in run offense (a spot we were dead last in and have turned it around in recent weeks and now getting our starter back).

[Fat Stupid Loser]

And to me, he has not justified that money. He has yet to show he can make a team significantly better like a Wilson, Brady, Rogers, Brees or Big Ben, but he makes as much or more than them (outside of 2020 with Rogers). That could all change if he wins the SB or takes us deep into the playoffs most years, but until then, he hasn’t earned his contract. A contract that hurts the rest of the team.

What? Where do you think we would be if this team had Keenum starting at $18 million per season like Denver signed him to? 2-6? 3-5 at best maybe.

Rodgers: 2,542 yds 60% comp 15 td 1 int
Cousins: 2,685 yds 71% comp 17 td 5 int

And 3 of those INT weren't on him.

[Pondering Her Percy]

What? Where do you think we would be if this team had Keenum starting at $18 million per season like Denver signed him to? 2-6? 3-5 at best maybe.

Rodgers: 2,542 yds 60% comp 15 td 1 int
Cousins: 2,685 yds 71% comp 17 td 5 int

And 3 of those INT weren't on him.

Another good point.

[StumpHunter]

And to me, he has not justified that money. He has yet to show he can make a team significantly better like a Wilson, Brady, Rogers, Brees or Big Ben, but he makes as much or more than them (outside of 2020 with Rogers). That could all change if he wins the SB or takes us deep into the playoffs most years, but until then, he hasn’t earned his contract. A contract that hurts the rest of the team.

What? Where do you think we would be if this team had Keenum starting at $18 million per season like Denver signed him to? 2-6? 3-5 at best maybe.

Rodgers: 2,542 yds 60% comp 15 td 1 int
Cousins: 2,685 yds 71% comp 17 td 5 int

If we had Keenum this season we would be 5-4 instead of 5-3-1. I think there is a good chance we win against Buffalo with a more mobile Keenum and a actual starting LG that we could have signed with an extra 8 mil in cap, so 6-3 is a real possibility. We would not have been in the GB or LA games though. Outside of those two games though, we have beat some really bad teams and lost to one of the worst in the NFL. Why do you think a guy who was 13-3 last year couldn't have beaten SF, AZ, NY, Buff, Detroit and an Eagles team that really struggled against our defense. Maybe that Eagles game is a loss with Keenum. Maybe.

Cousins is on a team that made last year's backup look like an MVP. Rogers is on a team that made last year's backup look like a bad backup. Come on man, the QB can't do it all, which is why it is crazy to pay them like they can.

[StumpHunter]

And 3 of those INT weren't on him.

Another good point.

How many picks have been dropped by CBs this year? And wasn't our guy bailed out by a horrendous roughing the passer call on an INT of his?

It goes both ways.

EDIT:
I am assuming one of those picks that wasn't his fault was the Diggs one where he stopped. That is on the QB for throwing to a player he couldn't see, who wasn't even open before he stopped. There isn't a coach in the world who would tell you that was a good decision.

[StumpHunter]

What? Where do you think we would be if this team had Keenum starting at $18 million per season like Denver signed him to? 2-6? 3-5 at best maybe.

Rodgers: 2,542 yds 60% comp 15 td 1 int
Cousins: 2,685 yds 71% comp 17 td 5 int

Exactly. And Rodgers isnt having his best year that's for sure. There isnt a QB out there that can "do it all" for their team. StumpHunter you are narrowing everything down to being on Cousins shoulders. And because he didnt beat the Rams, Packers, Bills and Saints, he isnt worth $84 million. Every loss, every win you're putting on Cousins. That's just simply not how it works

Aaron Rodgers of all QB's. "The best QB in the game" (which I dont believe), is 3-4-1. Are you going to sit there and say he isnt worth his contract either? And dont bother going down the line of his past years. This guy is crowned the best QB in the game and has been to and won ONE superbowl in 13 seasons. And this is his 14th and I can guarantee they wont be in the SB. How does that define him as the best? Tom Brady walks all over him. But if you want to say that Cousins doesnt deserve that contract, how does Aaron Rodgers when his team is 3-4-1? Your argument doesnt add up.

Contracts arent given out to QBs based on wins/losses. It's based on overall talent. What has Matt Ryan won? Matt Stafford? Jimmy G? Derek Carr? Andrew Luck? Cam Newton? Andy Dalton? Alex Smith? Because all of those QB are the ones making the most money over their entire span of their contract. That right there proves, contracts arent based on winning and losing. Matt Stafford and Derek Carr have been FAR from winners since they've been in the league.

Cousins contract was based on the market. A QB of Cousins caliber hardly EVER hits FA. And when you have a need there and have the money to give, you pull the trigger. Not settle for "Teddy and a solid backup". Again, Kirk Cousins is the only reason we were in games with the Rams and Packers both on the road. Keenum, Bridgewater or Bradford arent going toe to toe with the Rams or coming back from a deficit and taking the Packers to OT solely by themselves. And that's what Cousins did. Special teams and defense are what lost us those games. Not Kirk Cousins.

But I sure hope you dont give me some excuse as to why Aaron Rodgers is 3-4-1 but deserves the "best in the game" title. Blame it on their defense? Well ours was playing below average early on too. Blame it on the OL? Well ours sucks too. Blame it on their running game? We didnt have a running game the first 5 games of the year. Since week 5 we have gone 4-1 and the one loss, was drastically derailed by one play, Thielens fumble. The pick 6 didnt help but Thielen not fumbling and us getting a TD there gives us a 20-10 lead going into half getting the ball back. TOTALLY different game and TOTALLY different game plan coming out of the half. Chances are that pick 6 doesnt even happen.

Kirk Cousins is playing at a pro bowl level right now. So the last thing anyone should be doing is complaining. This team is now starting to hit their stride. We are now 6th in total defense. 11th against the pass. 4th against the run. Our offense is 12th in total offense. 8th best passing offense and 29th in run offense (a spot we were dead last in and have turned it around in recent weeks and now getting our starter back).

Rogers is actually on a bad team. The Vikings were 13-3 last year and didn't lose anyone of significance outside of QB. They actually should have improved with Richardson and Cook coming back. Not to mention the 84 million dollar QB they signed. Instead they are worse on offense and lost to Buffalo.

Rogers makes that much because teams stupidly pay QB's like Stafford a ton of money to lose football games. You do what you have to to keep him, but even he hasn't been able to carry a team that has to shoulder his pay check to a SB. Have they been back since his big payday? The Pats have a huge advantage with Brady, a QB who would rather win than make bank. Honestly, Brady's willingness to take a pay cut should be all the argument I need. If even he thinks winning the SB with the GOAT QB making a large chunk of the cap is difficult, what does that tell you?

Cousins is playing at a pro-bowl level on a team that had Case Keenum playing at a pro-bowl level. It isn't his fault the team he came too was great, I get that, but to be worth the contract, he needs to make the team better, not just the QB position. So far he has not.

He might by the end of the season, but the fact people are claiming he already has earned the contract tells me those people are blinded by purple sunglasses. Before the signing occurred, there isn't a one of you who would have said the signing would be a success if the QB put up great stats while the team lost more and the offense got worse. Now that he is here and hasn't improved the team (yet), that bar has been lowered.