2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed May 30, 2018 10:26 pm

S197 wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:56 pm
For a year, assuming we don't extend anyone. That number doesn't factor in Hughes' contract either. Looking beyond that though, it gets messy. If we don't sign Diggs, our WR corp is basically Thielen, Treadwell and Coley. Wright and King are on 1-year deals. Everyone else is UDFA/bubble types. On DL both Hunter and Richardson are gone after this year, that's 50% of the line. On OL, Easton is gone after this year and so is Compton and Hill. That could very well be two starters. Murray is also going to be gone leaving only Cook in the backfield. And of course Barr.

Obviously we will resign at least a few of these guys but my point is we have a lot of guys on 1-year deals and not just backups. Adding another player to a 1-year deal doesn't make a whole lot of sense especially with the limited amount of time this defense plays base. Gedeon far exceeding expectations last year. He wasn't great but I think he was the #4 rated LB against the run for 4-3 LB's.

As mentioned, short of us saying we're moving on from Barr or Kendricks taking a hefty pay cut, this move doesn't make sense to me.
You make good points but remember what Philly did this past year? They put the best roster together possible and worried about the rest after. If we can add Kendricks and he makes this team better, sign him. Put the best possible roster together you can. The ultimate goal is a super bowl. We have plenty of options to resign next year. Who is it gonna be? No clue. But if we think Barr is one we will let walk, get Kendricks. We don’t have to dump Barr this year. Kendricks could be a better, cheaper option than Barr and will obviously have great chemistry with his brother. Sign him to a one year deal and address it in the offseason based on Barr or sign him to a 2-3 year deal and let Barr walk after this year. Don’t count Richardson out either. We could very well let Barr and a guy like Waynes walk and keep guys like Richardson and Kendricks if we signed him. And IMO, if we did that, we wouldn’t skip a beat. We have Hughes take Waynes spot and Kendricks take Barr’s. And have our future 3tech DT to go with it. Keeping Richardson and Kendricks would be a cheaper option than keeping Barr and Waynes.

Bottom line is, keep your options open. Philly was in NEGATIVE cap for quite some time. They barely had enough money to sign a water boy. But they won the SB. That’s what we are striving for. Go and sign Kendricks. If we don’t, we could let Barr walk and now have a huge hole at SLB. If we sign Kendricks, we now have two options for a future SLB. Or hell, trade Barr right now. Sign Kendricks first and trade Barr. Now we get a SLB of the future in place of Barr’s salary (and costs less than that salary) plus I’m sure we would get solid compensation for him. It’s a win-win. Signing Kendricks is a much better route than some think and gives us more options IMO
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu May 31, 2018 10:52 am

And honestly, the more I look into it, Holton Hill has a legit shot to not only be on this roster but to be a starter for us down the road. If he continues down the right path, this could be even more reason to let Waynes be one that walks. Either way, our CBs this year could consist of:

Rhodes
Waynes
Alexander
Hughes
Newman
Hill

....Wow :shock:

If I'm Rick Spielman, I sign Kendricks and trade Barr right now. Trade him to a LB needy team with a lot of cap room. Should be able to get good compensation for him. Hold onto Waynes right now (wouldnt want to trade him because we all know it takes some time for a young CB to understand and get use to this defense). See how Hughes and Hill do this year. If they both seem average to legit and stay out of trouble, let Waynes walk during FA in 2020 or trade him after this season. That gives us two years with Waynes and gives two years to groom Hughes and Hill. We then can turn our focus to re-signing Diggs and Hunter, along with the possibility of Richardson. We will get more out of trading Barr than letting him walk and get a compensatory pick. Best we will get is a 3rd. If we trade we could land a 2nd I would think or possibly even a 1st.

The more I think about the Kendricks option, the more I want to trade Barr. Kendricks is way better vs the run and they are about equal vs the pass. Kendricks is cheaper in the long run. And him and Barr are only a year apart in age. Kendricks being 27 and Barr 26. There will have to be a cut or two as well if we want Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks and Richardson. I would guess maybe Sendejo, Remmers, Treadwell, possibly even a guy like Rudy (or have him take a pay cut, he's a die hard Vikings guy so I could see him doing that to stay here).

Either way, I think we're crazy to extend Barr. It's an "easier" position to fill and we already paid the better of our 2 LBs big money. Trade Barr and get the Kendricks brothers in there. It would be step 1 of the plethora of options we have. But I personally think it's the smartest one.
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by S197 » Thu May 31, 2018 1:19 pm

The other consideration is the cap isn't a use it or lose it situation. You can roll money forward to the following year, which is what the Vikings do quite often. Using it all up takes away some of the flexibility that has put them in decent cap space right now and also doesn't really allow for any signings for injury during the season (knock on wood but look at the past few seasons...).

There's a lot of variables, I don't know what M. Kendricks wants to get paid. Also we have no idea if Hughes or Hill will pan out. Especially Hill.

I don't know, I look at the defense and I'm thinking how much more does it really need? I'd rather retain guys and focus excess cap on the offense. The line in particular as it looks likely we could have two starters as potential free agents next year. Plus we're paying Remmers a good amount (and Reiff).

If you look at the spending split, the defense is taking up over $10M more than the offense and that doesn't factor in Hughes but it does factor Cousins HUGE contract. Taking those factors into account, it's really skewed. Especially in the trenches. I don't expect it to ever be even with a defensive minded coach but I'm hoping it balances a little more going forward. If trading Barr and signing M. Kendricks is part of that, then maybe it makes sense. Tough call.
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu May 31, 2018 2:33 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:19 pm
The other consideration is the cap isn't a use it or lose it situation. You can roll money forward to the following year, which is what the Vikings do quite often. Using it all up takes away some of the flexibility that has put them in decent cap space right now and also doesn't really allow for any signings for injury during the season (knock on wood but look at the past few seasons...).

There's a lot of variables, I don't know what M. Kendricks wants to get paid. Also we have no idea if Hughes or Hill will pan out. Especially Hill.

I don't know, I look at the defense and I'm thinking how much more does it really need? I'd rather retain guys and focus excess cap on the offense. The line in particular as it looks likely we could have two starters as potential free agents next year. Plus we're paying Remmers a good amount (and Reiff).

If you look at the spending split, the defense is taking up over $10M more than the offense and that doesn't factor in Hughes but it does factor Cousins HUGE contract. Taking those factors into account, it's really skewed. Especially in the trenches. I don't expect it to ever be even with a defensive minded coach but I'm hoping it balances a little more going forward. If trading Barr and signing M. Kendricks is part of that, then maybe it makes sense. Tough call.
I guess I just dont understand the point of retaining Barr and giving him big money. When Kendricks will give you almost identical play. Kendricks wont be "cheap", but he'll be much cheaper than Barr. If we want to save money, why wouldnt we go that route? I'm saying replace Barr outright with Kendricks. We save money and possibly gain good compensation for Barr if we trade him. If we sign Kendricks it spells the end for Barr IMO. It means either Barr will be traded this year or we will let him walk at years end. How does this address the "how much more does this defense need" part of your post? It provides us with a guaranteed solid starter going into the following year. Either Kendricks or Barr. If we cant strike a deal with Barr (nor do I want us to) and pass on Kendricks, now we have a HUGE hole on this defense and we will need to address that early in next years draft chances are. If we sign Kendricks, that closes our needs.

We either:

1.) Sign Barr to a big extension, probably lose out on other players because of it, gain no compensation in turn (technically we would gain compensation off of whoever we let go but I think they are all more valuable than Barr is to this team).

2.) Let Barr walk in free agency, do NOT sign Kendricks, have a huge hole at SLB that we now probably have to spend an early pick on, save a good amount of money and gain ~3rd round compensatory pick (which is essentially a 4th round pick because its end of the 3rd).

3.) Sign Kendricks as our SLB, trade Barr for much better than a 3rd round compensatory pick (possibly a first or a second), we avoid having to pay him $12 million this year which can be used towards someone else's extension and also save the money of not having to resign him and can put some of it towards Kendricks.

4.) Sign Kendricks, keep Barr for the year but let him walk in FA, save a little money because Kendricks is cheaper than Barr, gain a 3rd round compensatory pick.

Which option does this team most benefit from and gain the most from? No doubt it's #3. That's why I'm saying it's the best option for us. We would gain Kendricks (very similar player to Barr for cheaper), use the money we save by trading Barr towards other players (Either Diggs/Hunter/Richardson) and gain a first or second round pick (maybe some later round picks too) on top of it all. Not only do we gain all of that but our team doesnt skip a beat.
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by PurpleTears » Thu May 31, 2018 3:25 pm

In the interest of getting better now, without spending any more, I would add a 5th option to your list; Sign MK to a 15M/3 year deal that he should take if he is replacing Barr and going to play. Then trade Barr for a quality young guard and a mid-rounder. We get the guard we need now, set at LB with no risk or extra cost....get these both for what Barr will cost alone...and I would argue no drop-off at LB with the move. We would be better right now as a unit for a run at SB, set for next few years at both guard and LB and not adding to mortgage going forward.
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by Norv Zimmer » Thu May 31, 2018 7:41 pm

Sign MK. Keep Barr this year. Make a great defense better. Period.
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu May 31, 2018 8:18 pm

PurpleTears wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 3:25 pm
In the interest of getting better now, without spending any more, I would add a 5th option to your list; Sign MK to a 15M/3 year deal that he should take if he is replacing Barr and going to play. Then trade Barr for a quality young guard and a mid-rounder. We get the guard we need now, set at LB with no risk or extra cost....get these both for what Barr will cost alone...and I would argue no drop-off at LB with the move. We would be better right now as a unit for a run at SB, set for next few years at both guard and LB and not adding to mortgage going forward.
Agreed. That’s another option. Barr is no better than Kendricks and will obviously cost more. I’d much rather have Diggs, Hunter and Richardson and I think it’d be smart to trade barr
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu May 31, 2018 8:22 pm

Norv Zimmer wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:41 pm
Sign MK. Keep Barr this year. Make a great defense better. Period.
I’m not totally against that option but at the same time, they both play the same positions. I initially thought Kendricks would just start over Gedeon but by the sounds of it, the reason he wanted out of Philly was due to lack of time and usage. Gedeons isn’t on the field much. I feel like someone has to give. Either Barr or Kendricks. And if we kept Barr and signed Kendricks like I said above, what do we get in return for Barr? A 3rd round compensatory? Which is practically a 4th rounder. Having both Kendricks and Barr doesn’t make this team better the more I think about it. Given how little a WLB plays in Zims scheme.
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by 808vikingsfan » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:18 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:18 pm
Agreed. That’s another option. Barr is no better than Kendricks and will obviously cost more. I’d much rather have Diggs, Hunter and Richardson and I think it’d be smart to trade barr
My guess is Zimmer would disagree with you. I think you're underestimating how important Barr is to this defense. You could argue that 2017 was his best year yet. Also, Kendricks was basically a 2 down LB in Philly. I have to believe Barr is better at coverage than Kendricks which would weaken this defense tremendously.
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by PurpleMustReign » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:55 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:22 pm
I’m not totally against that option but at the same time, they both play the same positions. I initially thought Kendricks would just start over Gedeon but by the sounds of it, the reason he wanted out of Philly was due to lack of time and usage. Gedeons isn’t on the field much. I feel like someone has to give. Either Barr or Kendricks. And if we kept Barr and signed Kendricks like I said above, what do we get in return for Barr? A 3rd round compensatory? Which is practically a 4th rounder. Having both Kendricks and Barr doesn’t make this team better the more I think about it. Given how little a WLB plays in Zims scheme.
Didnt they play 3 LBs more prior to last season? I assumed Gedeon didn't play much mostly because lack of experience and because he wasn't as good.
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by S197 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:41 pm

Kendricks just signed a 1 year deal with the Browns
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by 808vikingsfan » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:38 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:41 pm
Kendricks just signed a 1 year deal with the Browns
I trust Ian more than Chris but
Chris Tomasson@christomasson

Mychal Kendricks on report he is signing with the Browns: 1/2: “No, it’s not accurate. I don’t know who the (bleep) said that. That (bleep) is (bleep). Whoever said that (bleep) is (bleep). That’s all I have to say, man. I’m not really talking to anybody else about it...
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by PurpleMustReign » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:05 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:38 pm
I trust Ian more than Chris but
That's interesting. If he does sign there, they will have a legit defense. The Browns will be very good in a few years.
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:11 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:55 am
Didnt they play 3 LBs more prior to last season? I assumed Gedeon didn't play much mostly because lack of experience and because he wasn't as good.
I know it's been noted before than a WLB plays limited snaps in Zims D. Greenway had more snaps in 2016 than Gedeon did in 2017. However, Greenway still only play 38% of the snaps
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Re: 2018 Vikings Free Agency Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:39 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:18 am
My guess is Zimmer would disagree with you. I think you're underestimating how important Barr is to this defense. You could argue that 2017 was his best year yet. Also, Kendricks was basically a 2 down LB in Philly. I have to believe Barr is better at coverage than Kendricks which would weaken this defense tremendously.
Barr has gotten better in coverage but still is not a good tackler. Kendricks is somewhat of the opposite although I dont think their coverage skills are really that far apart.

Via PFF:
The veteran has started 74 of the 85 games he has played since entering the league in 2012, finishing last season second on the team with 77 tackles. He was especially effective when dropping into coverage, but Pro Football Focus showed he can also rush the passer when asked
Not only did Kendricks grade out very well, but he's a phenomenal blitzer as well. I always thought he was very under utilized in Philly.

Point being, no, there is not much of a difference between Barr and Mychal Kendricks skill wise. However, Barr WILL cost more. Quite a bit more. And Diggs and Hunter are a much bigger priority than him IMO. It's so hard to find very good WRs and pass rushing DEs in this league. It's much easier to find a good, athletic outside linebacker.
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