Vikings Draft Picks

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by mansquatch » Tue May 15, 2018 2:27 pm

I doubt his job is tagged to Cousins. That line of thinking has been used with Ponder, with Teddy, etc. Last year there was talk of it being tagged to the OL.

IMO, I do not think any of us really know what his job is tagged to. I say that because none of us have come up with a clear model to compare him vs. other GMs. The only clear approach I've ever heard is "He hasn't won a SB." That is clear, but it is absurd, since by that approach 31 GMs would get canned every season.

When the GM conversation comes up I always say "As compared to what?" How does Rick compare to other GMs? What is his hit/miss rate like after 3 years vs. others. How well has he done at team building vs. others? (How do you compare him to others?)

As an aside, you could look at the teams that are routinely in the post season, but if you do that you'll quickly notice that the repeat performers are the guys with HOF QBs. (There is that QB thing again, must be a big deal to get better there...) Those teams miss in the draft also, they just do not look as bad because they have that HOF guy at QB covering up mistakes. Look no further than the hated Packers. It has taken 8 seasons for Thompson to be exposed as a fraud. No Rogers and it probably would have taken only three or four.

One interesting thing I think about: Is it possible to have excellence at the GM and HC position and not win a championship? I think it is. The simple fact is what we saw last year prior to the Minneapolis Miracle. Drew Brees up and decides he isn't going to lose and goes bonkers. We've seen Rogers do it over and over again over the years as well. You get up against a team like that with a playmaker at QB and you better start making it happen when you have the ball or you are going to lose. Did you lose because of coaching or bad roster decisions? Or did you lose because the other guy was great that day?

Hockey is similar. If a Goalie up and decides to go nuts and starts making absurd saves the rest of it won't matter.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by S197 » Tue May 15, 2018 4:10 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:27 pm
I doubt his job is tagged to Cousins. That line of thinking has been used with Ponder, with Teddy, etc. Last year there was talk of it being tagged to the OL.
Those are not remotely similar. We gave Cousins $84M. Guaranteed. All of it.

If he flops, its going to be hard to justify keeping a GM who made that massive of a mistake. I don't think you get a mulligan if you miss on an "all in" move like this.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Cliff » Tue May 15, 2018 4:35 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:10 pm
Those are not remotely similar. We gave Cousins $84M. Guaranteed. All of it.

If he flops, its going to be hard to justify keeping a GM who made that massive of a mistake. I don't think you get a mulligan if you miss on an "all in" move like this.
Maybe.

If Cousins flops then good luck finding the GM that wouldn't have made that move if they were in Spielman's place.

Seemed like almost a league wide consensus good move.

I literally googled "Vikings cousins bad move" and the first thing that comes up talks about how perfect the match is.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue May 15, 2018 4:46 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:50 pm
At the end of the day, Spielman's job is tied to Cousins. If Cousins flops, Spielman will be gone. Doesn't matter if that's fair, how he built the roster, etc., that's what will happen. So if Spielman misjudged the strength of the OL and Cousins doesn't have any protection, he's basically sealed his own fate. Conversely, if Cousins performs as he should, no one will care about Hernandez/Daniels in a couple months.

I also don't see a "we suck" attitude, if anything there's criticism but it seems fair with supporting arguments. I've been a relative big fan of Spielman, the post-draft thoughts from prior years are out there for anyone who wants to look them up. And 2016 is shaping up to be a poor draft so he it isn't like he's been stellar year in and year out. Overall I think he's done a good job, a very good job in fact, but I think there's still areas that need to be worked on. One of my biggest gripes about Spielman is he never drafts a backup QB. The last one was John David Booty eons ago. And he followed that MO again this year. It's nice we have Siemian, he's a serviceable backup, but he's also only here for a year and this was by most accounts a very deep QB draft class.

You can probably add placing a low priority on interior lineman to being a similar MO to QB. In essence the two positions have been treated very much the same. When there's an absolute need, we'll draft a guy or splash in free agency, but it's rarely forward looking to me. We should be looking beyond just starters because that's where on occasion you find guys like Kirk Cousins.
Well one thing I will say is that our line isn’t anywhere near what Washington’s was last year. Cousins was sacked 41 times and still put up a solid season with a bottom 5 running game and no receiving core. Just to put that in perspective, Bradford was sacked 37 times behind the worst line we as Vikings fans have ever seen. And Kirk cousins is much more mobile than Bradford. THATS how bad that OL was in Washington last year. Ours is nowhere near that bad and we have a stud RB and stud WRs. Along with a defense that is loaded. This is a big reason I’m not worried about the OL. Yeah it can always get better but I’m still not worried
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue May 15, 2018 4:48 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:27 pm
I doubt his job is tagged to Cousins. That line of thinking has been used with Ponder, with Teddy, etc. Last year there was talk of it being tagged to the OL.

IMO, I do not think any of us really know what his job is tagged to. I say that because none of us have come up with a clear model to compare him vs. other GMs. The only clear approach I've ever heard is "He hasn't won a SB." That is clear, but it is absurd, since by that approach 31 GMs would get canned every season.

When the GM conversation comes up I always say "As compared to what?" How does Rick compare to other GMs? What is his hit/miss rate like after 3 years vs. others. How well has he done at team building vs. others? (How do you compare him to others?)

As an aside, you could look at the teams that are routinely in the post season, but if you do that you'll quickly notice that the repeat performers are the guys with HOF QBs. (There is that QB thing again, must be a big deal to get better there...) Those teams miss in the draft also, they just do not look as bad because they have that HOF guy at QB covering up mistakes. Look no further than the hated Packers. It has taken 8 seasons for Thompson to be exposed as a fraud. No Rogers and it probably would have taken only three or four.

One interesting thing I think about: Is it possible to have excellence at the GM and HC position and not win a championship? I think it is. The simple fact is what we saw last year prior to the Minneapolis Miracle. Drew Brees up and decides he isn't going to lose and goes bonkers. We've seen Rogers do it over and over again over the years as well. You get up against a team like that with a playmaker at QB and you better start making it happen when you have the ball or you are going to lose. Did you lose because of coaching or bad roster decisions? Or did you lose because the other guy was great that day?

Hockey is similar. If a Goalie up and decides to go nuts and starts making absurd saves the rest of it won't matter.
Well said. If he was going to get canned, it would’ve happened with ponder. It didn’t. And he’s built an awesome roster.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue May 15, 2018 4:49 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:10 pm
Those are not remotely similar. We gave Cousins $84M. Guaranteed. All of it.

If he flops, its going to be hard to justify keeping a GM who made that massive of a mistake. I don't think you get a mulligan if you miss on an "all in" move like this.
Classify “flops”? I mean the guy is good. No doubt about it. He has a loaded team around him. Is flops not win a SB? Because if it is I don’t agree.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue May 15, 2018 4:52 pm

Cliff wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:35 pm
Maybe.

If Cousins flops then good luck finding the GM that wouldn't have made that move if they were in Spielman's place.

Seemed like almost a league wide consensus good move.

I literally googled "Vikings cousins bad move" and the first thing that comes up talks about how perfect the match is.
Agreed. Anyone would’ve pulled that trigger. Just like I would’ve pulled the trigger for Bradford. He was the best QB available and we had a strong team. It was worth the shot IMO. Cousins being available was also our best shot. Any GM pulls that trigger IMO. I always said too, give me a better option than Spielman right now? I can’t name one. And he’s doing the right things for the most part with this roster. You can’t ask for much more out of a GM than what he’s done lately
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by S197 » Tue May 15, 2018 6:24 pm

Cliff wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:35 pm
Maybe.

If Cousins flops then good luck finding the GM that wouldn't have made that move if they were in Spielman's place.

Seemed like almost a league wide consensus good move.

I literally googled "Vikings cousins bad move" and the first thing that comes up talks about how perfect the match is.
When we were in the Cousins sweepstakes there were a number of articles pointing out the predicament Spielman was in. Not only did we set the precedent for QB pricing moving forward, we also dropped the guy that got us to the NFCC, a former #1 picked loved by our head coach, and a guy we traded two picks for, including a 1st.

Right now things may look perfect because everything is unknown. On paper, Cousins looks like a good pick. But what if Cousins flops? And since that's ambiguous, what if the Vikings don't make it to the playoffs next year? Worse, what if Keenum has another year like last or Teddy plays up to his potential and one of those teams make the playoffs?

A tough decision had to be made and Spielman made one. Hopefully the right one. But if he's wrong, especially if one of these other guys succeed, it will be a major blunder. One I don't see him coming back from. I'm not saying what's going to happen is fair, I'm just saying it's going to happen.
If the Minnesota Vikings win the Super Bowl, credit Zygi Wilf for signing Kirk Cousins. If they don’t, blame Rick Spielman.
Signing Cousins for $84 million is a big gamble. He’s a fine quarterback, but he’s not a great quarterback. His signing could affect the team’s ability to retain core defensive players as well as wide receiver Stefon Diggs, players eligible to become unrestricted free agents after next season.

If the Cousins move doesn’t work out, Spielman, the Vikings’ general manager, can be blamed for not dissuading Wilf from mortgaging a payroll that could have serious ramifications.
https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/17/c ... k-cousins/
Spielman must now hope signing Cousins won’t lead to the Vikings suffering the same fate as Captain Ahab for both the short and long term. Minnesota might be unable to re-sign standout players in the future because Cousins is consuming so much cap space. That makes the margin of error even smaller in upcoming Vikings drafts.

So be it. And give Spielman credit for this:

He’s willing to go down with the franchise’s trademark dragon boat for the chance to reel in a Lombardi Trophy
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-free-agenc ... 05698.html

And probably the most telling of all:
“It's important for myself and (general manager) Rick [Spielman] and the organization that we pick the right guy that is going to help us continue to move forward. If we don't do that, then I'll probably get fired,” Zimmer said Thursday morning at the NFL scouting combine."
This was an all in move by the Vikings. And I'm totally fine with it. But you can't go all in without taking a big risk and big risks have big consequences. Whether deserving or not, if this goes south someone needs to be the scapegoat and it's going to be Rick. Maybe Zimmer.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Tue May 15, 2018 6:57 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:10 pm
Those are not remotely similar. We gave Cousins $84M. Guaranteed. All of it.

If he flops, its going to be hard to justify keeping a GM who made that massive of a mistake. I don't think you get a mulligan if you miss on an "all in" move like this.
Need a 'like' button for this post :)

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed May 16, 2018 8:30 am

S197 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:24 pm
When we were in the Cousins sweepstakes there were a number of articles pointing out the predicament Spielman was in. Not only did we set the precedent for QB pricing moving forward, we also dropped the guy that got us to the NFCC, a former #1 picked loved by our head coach, and a guy we traded two picks for, including a 1st.

Right now things may look perfect because everything is unknown. On paper, Cousins looks like a good pick. But what if Cousins flops? And since that's ambiguous, what if the Vikings don't make it to the playoffs next year? Worse, what if Keenum has another year like last or Teddy plays up to his potential and one of those teams make the playoffs?

A tough decision had to be made and Spielman made one. Hopefully the right one. But if he's wrong, especially if one of these other guys succeed, it will be a major blunder. One I don't see him coming back from. I'm not saying what's going to happen is fair, I'm just saying it's going to happen.





https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/17/c ... k-cousins/



https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-free-agenc ... 05698.html

And probably the most telling of all:



This was an all in move by the Vikings. And I'm totally fine with it. But you can't go all in without taking a big risk and big risks have big consequences. Whether deserving or not, if this goes south someone needs to be the scapegoat and it's going to be Rick. Maybe Zimmer.
You make some good points for sure and I see where you're coming from. I guess my take is that it also is dependent on the offseasons Spielman has the next few years. If we are making the playoffs and this is still a solid roster (which it should be) but Cousins doesnt bring us a SB, or even maybe an NFCCG appearance, I still dont see Spielman being fired. I mean lets be honest here, something would have to drastically happen to this team for us to just not make the playoffs with the team we have. Like in 2016 where our entire OL was hurt, or if Cousins went down, or if our D was crushed by injuries. If this team stays fairly healthy, they are a shoe in playoff team IMO. I know anything can happen and we have a tough schedule but still. Cousins isnt a middle of the road QB. He had a very bad team on the fringe of the playoffs two years and made the playoffs the other year. This defense is top 3, the WRs are loaded. RB is a stud, etc. A team that loaded and that stays healthy doesnt just miss the playoffs. Or I should say, it would be extremely rare for that to happen. Not saying it "cant" happen but its unlikely.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Cliff » Wed May 16, 2018 8:58 am

S197 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:24 pm
When we were in the Cousins sweepstakes there were a number of articles pointing out the predicament Spielman was in. Not only did we set the precedent for QB pricing moving forward, we also dropped the guy that got us to the NFCC, a former #1 picked loved by our head coach, and a guy we traded two picks for, including a 1st.

Right now things may look perfect because everything is unknown. On paper, Cousins looks like a good pick. But what if Cousins flops? And since that's ambiguous, what if the Vikings don't make it to the playoffs next year? Worse, what if Keenum has another year like last or Teddy plays up to his potential and one of those teams make the playoffs?

A tough decision had to be made and Spielman made one. Hopefully the right one. But if he's wrong, especially if one of these other guys succeed, it will be a major blunder. One I don't see him coming back from. I'm not saying what's going to happen is fair, I'm just saying it's going to happen.
I think Spielman is more tied to Zimmer than anyone as far as keeping his job goes. Zimmer was the first time Spielman was actually able to choose the head coach, I believe. If they decide it's time for Zimmer to go Rick will be with him.

If Cousins flops that may very well happen. I think it matters just how they don't make the playoffs. Are they 9-7 or 3-13? As it stands right now Zimmer has the 3rd best win percentage in Vikings history (he's .001% behind Denny Green). He's already won as many games as Brad Childress despite having one less season.

The Vikings don't have a great track record of picking head coaches (in recent history especially), is my point. I think Zimmer would have to lay a pretty nasty egg for him to get booted after the 2018 season. (See the Childress meltdown of 2010)
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by mansquatch » Wed May 16, 2018 12:19 pm

To add on to the "what if he flops" discussion:

If he flops because he blows an ACL or they team gets hit with the injury bug, then I think they all survive. If he comes out and just sucks then it would be a different story. But I really can't see why that would happen? There is plenty of film on Cousins. They know who is and what he can do. I guess it is possible that they get stubborn (a la childress) on offense and try to force Cousins into a scheme he doesn't fit, but there is literally ZERO reason to think that would happen. The new OC might be a bit of wildcard on this front, but we saw what he did in Philly where he catered his approach to what Foles was good at. To a point, they won the SB. So I find it hard to point to any sort of strong reason that would make me thing Cousins would lay an egg unless it is injury related.

The biggest hurdle this season is the schedule. It is nasty. IMO the divisional games will be really important. If they can win 11 games and take a home playoff game, that should be considered a success. I think they can potentially do better, but given their road schedule it is going to take some luck. Don't get me wrong, I think we are an elite NFC roster, easily in the top 3m but the issue is we are playing probably the hardest schedule in the NFC. There is a good chance that some NFC team will turn it on playing a much softer schedule and it will be tough to stay ahead of them playing teams like NE on the road.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by S197 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:28 pm

I think if they make the playoffs no one is getting fired, I don't see this as a SB or bust type situation although they are definitely in win now mode (as are the other major contenders like the Rams). But an 8-8 season? I don't know, we might see some heads roll.

I agree we shouldn't have an 8-8 season, this isn't a .500 team but the NFL and its owners are fickle and have a short memory. Like one of the articles I linked said, Cousins' big contract makes the margin for error very slim. It's key we have solid drafts.

Did Flip call the plays in Philly? I think it may have been Pederson.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Mothman » Wed May 16, 2018 4:12 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:24 am
Thats probably true, although it sounds like they were hyped over Ragnow, and I would bet if Quenton Nelson were somehow available at 30, he would have taken him. Its probably not quite so concrete as to make it a rule, but I have no doubt you are correct in terms of Spielman generally believing its a position to be addressed later in the draft.

I don't have time to do it, but I would be very curious to know two things about starters along the interior OL in the NFL. The less interesting question is,

'how many of them were day 1 selections? When did they tend to be drafted? How does that compare to other positions?'

More interestingly: 'how many of them are playing while on their first contract? how does their average age compare to the average starting age at other positions?

I'm playing around with the opinion that its a position which benefits from old man strength more than sudden explosive strength, and that it relies a great deal on consistency and technical proficiency. While you will have your elite young guards, generally speaking I could believe that OL play might peak at a later age than most positions because of both these factors. I could believe that a Joe Berger would have been liable to give the Vikings better (or comparable) production on a 'win now' basis than most of the Guards drafted in the first or second round this year. Just to take a random example, Vlad Ducasse was pretty rough when he was on the Vikings, but at 30 he's still in the league, and he's still starting. That tells you something. Take it for what its worth, but PFF has him ranked as the 24th best G in a league which has 64 starting Guards. Tom Compton could possibly be in that mold. He's 29, and has had several years of experience to hone his physical and technical game. In all likelihood he is not going to be the next Joe Berger for the Vikings, but it is possible that given the chance he would perform better than most of the players selected in the last 2 or 3 drafts, even those who are without doubt more talented.
I think experience counts at every position but I think you have a point about "old man strength" too. As big as many young football players are when they enter the league, they're still young and bodies tend to fill out (in both positive and negative ways) with age. I imagine those changes, along with the benefits of NFL strength training programs and the aforementioned experience make most guards better 4+ years into their pro careers, assuming they get that far.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Mothman » Wed May 16, 2018 4:36 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:50 pm
At the end of the day, Spielman's job is tied to Cousins. If Cousins flops, Spielman will be gone.


Didn't people say that about Spielman, Zimmer and Bridgewater too? Rick's got more lives than a cat. :) He spent 3 first round draft picks on QBs in 7 years, none of them are still with the team and he's lived to tell the tale!

Actually, that probably means you're right. If signing Cousins doesn't pay off, it's hard to imagine Slick Rick surviving as GM.
I also don't see a "we suck" attitude, if anything there's criticism but it seems fair with supporting arguments. I've been a relative big fan of Spielman, the post-draft thoughts from prior years are out there for anyone who wants to look them up. And 2016 is shaping up to be a poor draft so he it isn't like he's been stellar year in and year out. Overall I think he's done a good job, a very good job in fact, but I think there's still areas that need to be worked on. One of my biggest gripes about Spielman is he never drafts a backup QB. The last one was John David Booty eons ago. And he followed that MO again this year. It's nice we have Siemian, he's a serviceable backup, but he's also only here for a year and this was by most accounts a very deep QB draft class.
I obviously have the same gripe.
You can probably add placing a low priority on interior lineman to being a similar MO to QB. In essence the two positions have been treated very much the same. When there's an absolute need, we'll draft a guy or splash in free agency, but it's rarely forward looking to me. We should be looking beyond just starters because that's where on occasion you find guys like Kirk Cousins.
Exactly.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu May 17, 2018 7:37 am

mansquatch wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:19 pm
To add on to the "what if he flops" discussion:

If he flops because he blows an ACL or they team gets hit with the injury bug, then I think they all survive. If he comes out and just sucks then it would be a different story. But I really can't see why that would happen? There is plenty of film on Cousins. They know who is and what he can do. I guess it is possible that they get stubborn (a la childress) on offense and try to force Cousins into a scheme he doesn't fit, but there is literally ZERO reason to think that would happen. The new OC might be a bit of wildcard on this front, but we saw what he did in Philly where he catered his approach to what Foles was good at. To a point, they won the SB. So I find it hard to point to any sort of strong reason that would make me thing Cousins would lay an egg unless it is injury related.

The biggest hurdle this season is the schedule. It is nasty. IMO the divisional games will be really important. If they can win 11 games and take a home playoff game, that should be considered a success. I think they can potentially do better, but given their road schedule it is going to take some luck. Don't get me wrong, I think we are an elite NFC roster, easily in the top 3m but the issue is we are playing probably the hardest schedule in the NFC. There is a good chance that some NFC team will turn it on playing a much softer schedule and it will be tough to stay ahead of them playing teams like NE on the road.
Yes the schedule is the big downfall. I sure hope if we go 11-5, fans arent on here saying "see we should of kept Case" or talking about firing coaches or Spielman just because we didnt match the previous years record or do better. 13-3 is hard to match and hard to beat. Especially when you're playing a first place schedule. I think the home games are reasonable. It's the road schedule thats brutal. I swear we caught every tough team on the road outside of the Saints. Which is really unfortunate.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by mansquatch » Thu May 17, 2018 8:56 am

If it can remain healthy, this roster has the ability to beat every single team on the schedule whether it is home or away. The Defense is so good, it will keep them in most, if not all games. However, at this stage in Zimmer's time here, we should expect that there will be 2-3 games where the team plays flat to bad on defense. Last year, the offense bailed us out of two of those games, but couldn't bail us out of the other two. (Playoffs included) This year, the offense should again be able to to offer a life line and likely a stronger one.

This team didn't just win in the margins last year, it dominated. We didn't have 3 or 4 games where the ball bounced our way, We won convincingly and did so consistently. However, we did have our share of games against weaker teams. This coming season there will not be as many weaker teams, so the margin for error will be smaller. That is why I made the prediction of 11-5. The road schedule is such that it just seems likely that they could have a harder time getting to 12 or 13 wins.

Let us just hope we can stay healthy.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by fiestavike » Thu May 17, 2018 10:10 am

Mothman wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:12 pm
I think experience counts at every position but I think you have a point about "old man strength" too. As big as many young football players are when they enter the league, they're still young and bodies tend to fill out (in both positive and negative ways) with age. I imagine those changes, along with the benefits of NFL strength training programs and the aforementioned experience make most guards better 4+ years into their pro careers, assuming they get that far.
At this point, how do you think you would arrange the 2018 starting OL for the Vikings using the players currently on the roster? Or if you'd rather, who do you predict to be starting along the OL in Week 1?

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by S197 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:54 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:10 am
At this point, how do you think you would arrange the 2018 starting OL for the Vikings using the players currently on the roster? Or if you'd rather, who do you predict to be starting along the OL in Week 1?
Not addressed to me but my guess is Reiff-Easton-Elflein-Compton-Remmers. I really think Remmers move to guard was out of desperation, they don't really want him there for any meaningful amount of time. I hear Compton is a good locker room guy and have to imagine Cousins championed for him.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu May 17, 2018 2:40 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:54 pm
Not addressed to me but my guess is Reiff-Easton-Elflein-Compton-Remmers. I really think Remmers move to guard was out of desperation, they don't really want him there for any meaningful amount of time. I hear Compton is a good locker room guy and have to imagine Cousins championed for him.
I dont see Compton starting. But if he does I would think it's where you said.

I would guess either Reiff, Easton, Elflein, Remmers and Hill

OR

Reiff, Easton, Elflein, Remmers and O'Neill. They didnt take O'Neill in the 2nd for him to sit the bench.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by S197 » Thu May 17, 2018 4:07 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:40 pm
I dont see Compton starting. But if he does I would think it's where you said.

I would guess either Reiff, Easton, Elflein, Remmers and Hill

OR

Reiff, Easton, Elflein, Remmers and O'Neill. They didnt take O'Neill in the 2nd for him to sit the bench.
We'll see but early reports indicate O'Neill isn't ready to start. I see an outside shot of Hill starting at RT but Remmers really struggled at guard. Remmers still has a lot of dead cap but that goes down significantly after this year and makes O'Neill a more attractive option in 2019. Hill is really a depth swing tackle to me, they're bonkers if the gameplan is to have him protect Cousins for 16 games.

If anything, maybe Isidora beats out Compton but I still feel like guard is the only position in flux right now.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by YikesVikes » Thu May 17, 2018 6:03 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:39 am
That fantastic Cowboy's OL hasn't won a playoff game since 2014. FYI. I'd argue you build a team QB first, but that's just like my opinion man.

I would remind everyone hammering on the first round pick that your conclusions are based on the Draft Grades provided by so-called media draft experts. Note that it wasn't just the Vikings who did not pick those guards, so did every other team that passed them up. many of which were playoff teams. This might imply that the grades from the experts were not so great? Don't those guys miss more often than they hit anyways? Might be worth reviewing the foundation of the case being made here. Seems to me like it's a bit soft...
Possibly but how many of the teams that passed, needed guards as desperately as we did? We aren't the Cowboys. We have a complete team except for Oline. It's time we start pouring picks into fixing it and not luxury picks for the defense. A top Olineman and 2nd round CB would have served this team better than a top CB and a project Olineman.
Last edited by YikesVikes on Sat May 19, 2018 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by jackal » Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 pm

Yeah from what I know of our
new OC is he takes the players
or talent he has and adapts his
plan to them, not the other way
around.
no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Mothman » Fri May 18, 2018 6:00 am

fiestavike wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:10 am
At this point, how do you think you would arrange the 2018 starting OL for the Vikings using the players currently on the roster? Or if you'd rather, who do you predict to be starting along the OL in Week 1?
I haven't seen much (or any) of some of those players yet so it's hard to say how I would arrange them or make a firm prediction but my best guess for the starting OL in week 1 is:

LT Reiff
LG Easton
C Elflein
RG Compton
RT Remmers

I think Remmers is better played at tackle than guard and he looks to me like the best RT option on the roster. Maybe Isidora will challenge for RG in his second season or perhaps someone else will step up but I'm guess the veteran they just signed ends up with the job, at least to start the season.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by fiestavike » Fri May 18, 2018 7:53 am

Mothman wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 6:00 am
I haven't seen much (or any) of some of those players yet so it's hard to say how I would arrange them or make a firm prediction but my best guess for the starting OL in week 1 is:

LT Reiff
LG Easton
C Elflein
RG Compton
RT Remmers

I think Remmers is better played at tackle than guard and he looks to me like the best RT option on the roster. Maybe Isidora will challenge for RG in his second season or perhaps someone else will step up but I'm guess the veteran they just signed ends up with the job, at least to start the season.
Did you get to see Compton play much for the Bears? I only watched him against the Vikings and I can say he didn't stick out like a sore thumb. There is a good chance he starts. Isadora against the Browns was truly a mess. Gosset, Andrews and O'neil are the wild cards. I suppose Aviante Collins could be a dark horse to move inside to G.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri May 18, 2018 8:05 am

S197 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:07 pm
We'll see but early reports indicate O'Neill isn't ready to start. I see an outside shot of Hill starting at RT but Remmers really struggled at guard. Remmers still has a lot of dead cap but that goes down significantly after this year and makes O'Neill a more attractive option in 2019. Hill is really a depth swing tackle to me, they're bonkers if the gameplan is to have him protect Cousins for 16 games.

If anything, maybe Isidora beats out Compton but I still feel like guard is the only position in flux right now.
I honestly dont mind giving Remmers another shot at guard. Simply because it was a spot he got minimal reps at during the season and was thrown in there when Easton went down. I think if he's there most of camp and the preseason he would be fine. It's tough switching from RT to the complete opposite side as well as a completely different position. I can see Isidora being a sleeper as well. From what I am hearing, dont count Gossett out either
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Mothman » Sun May 20, 2018 8:59 am

fiestavike wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 7:53 am
Did you get to see Compton play much for the Bears? I only watched him against the Vikings and I can say he didn't stick out like a sore thumb. There is a good chance he starts. Isadora against the Browns was truly a mess. Gosset, Andrews and O'neil are the wild cards. I suppose Aviante Collins could be a dark horse to move inside to G.
I saw a little of Compton with the Bears. He was okay, not outstanding, not awful. He's actually been a tackle most of his career so I think he might have been out of his comfort zone at guard.

It really looks to me like the Vikes have put together a roster without a second starting-caliber guard and with tackles as their best starting options to fill that open guard position.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by fiestavike » Sun May 20, 2018 9:33 am

Mothman wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:59 am
I saw a little of Compton with the Bears. He was okay, not outstanding, not awful. He's actually been a tackle most of his career so I think he might have been out of his comfort zone at guard.

It really looks to me like the Vikes have put together a roster without a second starting-caliber guard and with tackles as their best starting options to fill that open guard position.
I would agree. That's how it looks as of this moment. If none of the younger players surprise, I hope they will consider trying to make a trade before the season. I saw somewhere (I can't remember now) a proposal that the Vikings sign Jahri Evans to solidify the RG position. That could make sense as a short term, band-aid.

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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon May 21, 2018 7:54 am

fiestavike wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:33 am
I would agree. That's how it looks as of this moment. If none of the younger players surprise, I hope they will consider trying to make a trade before the season. I saw somewhere (I can't remember now) a proposal that the Vikings sign Jahri Evans to solidify the RG position. That could make sense as a short term, band-aid.
I would hope the trade would be a low risk high reward type trade and not something big. I'm starting to think Gossett has more of a shot than some fans think
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