Week 1 reaction thread

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:53 pm

dead_poet wrote: I put OBJ in the Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Julio Jones mold. AB is more Percy Harvin/Stefon Diggs. Quick-twitch, great route-runners (though Harvin may not have qualified for the latter but hopefully I'm communicating the distinction).
What?

OBJ is 5-11, 198 -- very similar to Antonio Brown (5-10, 185) and one of the smaller #1 WRs in the league. Diggs is actually a little bigger at 6-0.

Megatron is 6-5, 240. Marshall is 6-4, 230. Jones is 6-4, 220. Those guys are brutes. And Rhodes handled Megatron pretty well during his day.
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by dead_poet » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:04 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: What?

OBJ is 5-11, 198 -- very similar to Antonio Brown (5-10, 185) and one of the smaller #1 WRs in the league. Diggs is actually a little bigger at 6-0.

Megatron is 6-5, 240. Marshall is 6-4, 230. Jones is 6-4, 220. Those guys are brutes. And Rhodes handled Megatron pretty well during his day.
Sometimes I forget OBJ is that "short." He plays big. From what I've witnessed, I'd just compare his game more to the guys I mentioned. Maybe that's just my dumb analysis though.

I read that both players grew up in/near Miami and attended Miami Norland High School. Rhodes apparently trains in the offseason with Brown, so he should know him well. Going up against Diggs in practice should also be good practice. Do we know if Rhodes has gone up against Brown in an NFL game?
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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:46 pm

dead_poet wrote:Sometimes I forget OBJ is that "short." He plays big. From what I've witnessed, I'd just compare his game more to the guys I mentioned. Maybe that's just my dumb analysis though.

I read that both players grew up in/near Miami and attended Miami Norland High School. Rhodes apparently trains in the offseason with Brown, so he should know him well. Going up against Diggs in practice should also be good practice. Do we know if Rhodes has gone up against Brown in an NFL game?
You probably read the article on Vikings.com. Nice read.

The OBJ I see is very quick and shifty. He made the amazing one-handed catch a couple of years ago, which made him look big, but he's a small dude. He's also a lot like Brown in that he's really, really tough after the catch. Changes direction like a fly.

Honestly, I think Rhodes can hold his own against anybody, Brown included. That's not to say he'll school Brown like he did OBJ. Nobody really holds AB to 3 catches for 23 yards. But anything Brown gets against Rhodes, he's gonna have to earn. That was not the case against Cleveland. Pittsburgh ran a couple of bubble screens to Brown ... the Browns were playing so far off AB that he had a 10-yard cushion when he caught the balls. Minnesota's not going to let that happen. Everybody in our secondary can tackle, and all the corners can play press.

It's gonna be a tough test. Pittsburgh is a 6-point favorite. That seems like a lot to me, but I guess home field accounts for 3 points. Whatever. The Steelers are favored, and they should be. But I will not be surprised if the Vikings steal this one.
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by John_Viveiros » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:40 am

IrishViking wrote:Not to be a negative nancy. But remember; according to last years stats we put up a nearly *exactly* average offense display against the Saints.
We did put up average points against the Saints D from last year (they gave up 28.4 ppg). But we drove for 100 more yards than they gave up on average per game (lack of turnovers meant every scoring drive was a long one). ...And the defense held the Saints to roughly 50 yards and 10 points under last year's average.

Think of what this team could do with a league-average offense!
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by John_Viveiros » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:44 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:It's gonna be a tough test. Pittsburgh is a 6-point favorite. That seems like a lot to me, but I guess home field accounts for 3 points. Whatever. The Steelers are favored, and they should be. But I will not be surprised if the Vikings steal this one.
I rewatched the Steelers/Browns game. Hard to be impressed with either team. Pittsburgh is a 6 point favorite based almost entirely on last year's records.

...As they probably should be at this stage. But it's hard for me to see this game as anything other than a tossup, except for HFA, but then again, I'm a fan.
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by mansquatch » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:35 am

This is just like last season when we were winning. The odds makers do not appreciate the quality of our defense. It will be a tight game. I think the fact we are getting PIT in week 2, before their offense has had time to fully come together favors the Vikings.
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by dead_poet » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:15 pm

Nice analysis of Reiff's first game with some Gifs

http://vikingsterritory.com/2017/analys ... ings-debut
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by dead_poet » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:19 pm

And a not-so-rosey analysis of the other O-linemen:

http://zonecoverage.com/2017/vikings/of ... r-concern/
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:53 pm

dead_poet wrote:
What plays?
I mean he had 3 INTs last year. In other words, making plays. He also had 11 pass breakups. Tied with guess who? Xavier Rhodes. Not try to compare him to Rhodes but the guy made plays. It's not like he's being routinely burned for touchdowns. He needs to get better yeah. But to compare him to Chris Cook is asinine. As for PFF, They had Newman as the #9 overall cover CB, Rhodes at 29 and Waynes at 85. Is Xavier Rhodes really the 29TH best cover CB in the league? Come on now. So that doesnt tell me a whole lot.
Absolutely not. I don't expect Waynes to be at Rhodes' level. Few cornerbacks are. But when he gets picked on time and again and allows 80-90% of passes to be completed, come on. You don't have higher standards for a corner than that?
Well who else are they going to "pick on" DP?? You arent going to pick on Rhodes. Nickel CBs arent always on the field so obviously you have to pick on someone. And obviously it's not going to be the superior CB so I'm not sure what you really expect there[/quote]

But he also wasn't part of the solution. His coverage responsibility consistently caught the ball. Just because others also didn't give him any help doesn't absolve him of failing to prevent the completions.
But if a very hard headed coach that has no problem calling out his players says Trae Waynes did his job, then I'll side with him. Zim could've easily had Waynes playing way off guys for a reason. You dont know. If Zim called out Waynes, then yeah, he played like garbage but that wasnt the case and you have no idea what he had Waynes doing on those plays. I feel that if it was for the one long completion Waynes wouldnt even be brought up.

It was good coverage but, yet again, he didn't prevent the completion. That's the story with him. And that's the problem.
You can only prevent so much. Especially when you're 10 yards off a WR and he runs a 5 yard hitch which happened alot all game. Also given the fact that nobody in the NFL has a quicker release than Brees.

Bottom line is, if Mike Zimmer say Trae Waynes, "tackled well, got turned around and beat on a double move but overall did his job", then I agree with Mike Zimmer. It's easy to sit behind a TV screen and pick apart why he isnt preventing completions but when you arent on the sideline calling the plays and then hear Zim publicly say he's doing his job, you tend not to worry. Maybe thats just me.

I'm not saying the guy is some stud CB by any means but I believe he's an average to slightly above average CB. I just feel like he gets exposed a lot more because teams arent throwing to Rhodes nearly as much.
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by PacificNorseWest » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:38 pm

My week 1 reaction:

:rock:
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by mansquatch » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:15 am

I'm sorry, but how can you find fault in Waynes' performance on Thursday? Sure they completed some passes against him, but did he give up the big play? Did he give up a TD when the game was on the line? The answer is no. They held one of the 5 best QB and one of the best 5 offenses in the NFL to 19 points and 7 of those came in garbage time.

Really hard to argue with those kinds of results.

Also how many of the completions came in the 4th Quarter? At that point the Vikings were running a Cover 2 zone and were willing to give up the short passes and tackle the WR in bounds to keep the clock moving. Those completions are not net positives for the Saints, they are negative as the run the clock. It is also exactly what the coach was calling. This is exactly why Zimmer rips PFF all the time.
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by PurpleMustReign » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:43 am

mansquatch wrote:I'm sorry, but how can you find fault in Waynes' performance on Thursday? Sure they completed some passes against him, but did he give up the big play? Did he give up a TD when the game was on the line? The answer is no. They held one of the 5 best QB and one of the best 5 offenses in the NFL to 19 points and 7 of those came in garbage time.

Really hard to argue with those kinds of results.

Also how many of the completions came in the 4th Quarter? At that point the Vikings were running a Cover 2 zone and were willing to give up the short passes and tackle the WR in bounds to keep the clock moving. Those completions are not net positives for the Saints, they are negative as the run the clock. It is also exactly what the coach was calling. This is exactly why Zimmer rips PFF all the time.
I think some people want the opposing QB to go 0-40 and be sacked 10 times. I had no problems with Waynes last week. I was more concerned with Newman.

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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by dead_poet » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:44 am

I want less than 90% of the targets in his coverage completed. This doesn't feel like an unreasonable request.
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:02 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:I think some people want the opposing QB to go 0-40 and be sacked 10 times. I had no problems with Waynes last week. I was more concerned with Newman.
I get what you're saying. Newman gave up a deep ball and didnt have nearly as many tackles as Waynes but nobody mentioned Newman's name. Why is that?
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Re: Week 1 reaction thread

Post by Texas Vike » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:33 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I get what you're saying. Newman gave up a deep ball and didnt have nearly as many tackles as Waynes but nobody mentioned Newman's name. Why is that?
He's a 39 year old vet in the final chapter of his career, whereas Waynes is a young, pedigreed player on whom we spent a high draft pick. Is it not normal that expectations would be different?
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