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 this could get really really ugly 
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Post this could get really really ugly
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Zimmer-Well-Try-To-Get-This-Thing-Turned-Around/3875ef02-d126-4b89-884f-1576b4158d53


To those saying "don't worry, it's just preseason" please watch this interview. He seems totally distraught. I just have an uneasy feeling that this season is going to completely unravel into a 3-13 or worse campaign. Again I know it's preseason but this looks a lot more like the 3-8 team (really 2-8 because it's hard to count that last game against the bears) that finished the season than the 5-0 team that started it.


Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:48 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
His body language there is clearly disturbing. I tell you what, he better get something figured out especially with regards to scoring points or I doubt he is around next year. They kept saying all camp and leading up to the season they wanted to "stretch the field" more on offense. To my recollection, Bradford really only attempted 1 really deep throw and it was incomplete. It frustrates me that they aren't even taking shots. How are you supposed to improve if you don't even try?


Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:40 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Shurmur has no business running an offense.
He's a proven failure.
Why did he get another try with the Vikings?
Because Spielman is a genius. :confused:
Good to know you Zimmer. :wallbang:


Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:05 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
12 possessions, 5 sacks allowed, zero touchdowns for the starters offensively is pretty distressing.

Russell Wilson went 13-18 yards two touchdown passes and while the Vikings defense did eventually stop the 49ers, they got brutalized by Brian Hoyer on the first two possessions. At one point in the game, Brian Hoyer was 9-9 for 153 yards, 24 yard and 46 yard touchdown passes, no sacks for a perfect QB rating. Its not much of a shame to lose to a proven star and Super Bowl winner like Wilson, but Brian Hoyer?


Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:39 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
I am more worried about the defense right now. We have put however millions of dollars into a defense that can't even stop Brian Houser and makes him look like Tom Brady. AD I'd going to break the 296 mark if we don't figure something out.

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Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:59 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Zimmer must be a terrible poker player! :lol: He is very upset about the state of both the D and O and it's clear as day in this video. We looked awful in the first half. Our offensive scheme looks pathetic. What surprised me more that even our D looked really lackluster. For a team that is supposedly strong at the DL, we got very little penetration against the 9ers.

Jim jumped ship at a good time! Uffdah, this sucks.


Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:52 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Texas Vike wrote:
Zimmer must be a terrible poker player! :lol: He is very upset about the state of both the D and O and it's clear as day in this video. We looked awful in the first half. Our offensive scheme looks pathetic. What surprised me more that even our D looked really lackluster. For a team that is supposedly strong at the DL, we got very little penetration against the 9ers.

Jim jumped ship at a good time! Uffdah, this sucks.


I agree.

Regarding the offense, the state of the offensive line still concerns me the most when it comes to the scoreless starters. Something is broken. Has been for years. Is it because the Vikings can't afford real OL talent? Or is it because they can't evaluate OL talent? Is the offensive coaching simply pitifully bad? Or is it all the above? I honestly don't know at this point.

As I've said before, usually I can take preseason with a grain of salt. But I have to admit the first half non-performance by many starters on both sides of the ball has me confused about this team. Seriously, can they really be as bad as they looked?

If the Vikings play equally awful during the regular season, I have to agree with those who say Zimmer will lose his job. And I want Zimmer to succeed.


Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:19 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
It all starts up front. Once again there was rarely a play where someone didn't get beat. Bradford wasn't taking chances, Diggs dropped passes and there weren't many holes. I'm also not very impressed with Shurmer but I'll wait until actual games before getting too on his case. Zimmer looked beside himself. Like he puts in so much and this is the result. I'd be pretty pissed, too.

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Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:47 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
you can only take analysts thoughts with a grain of salt too, but today I heard two people talking (not sure who exactly) and they both agreed Sam Bradford is the most overrated qb in the entire NFL for his salary. What did we get, 16 or 17 touchdowns from Teddy and 20 last year from Sam? Lets face it our lack of a passing game is a major problem. Even on plays where Bradford does get time he doesn't throw the ball down the field. Its sad, but we haven't had that element of a passing attack since Favre and the NFL is a passing league.


Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:33 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
If they have an 8-8 type year or worse or even just miss the playoffs I am pretty sure Zimmer's tenure is over and can only be objectively viewed as a failure.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:30 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
mosscarter wrote:
you can only take analysts thoughts with a grain of salt too, but today I heard two people talking (not sure who exactly) and they both agreed Sam Bradford is the most overrated qb in the entire NFL for his salary. What did we get, 16 or 17 touchdowns from Teddy and 20 last year from Sam? Lets face it our lack of a passing game is a major problem. Even on plays where Bradford does get time he doesn't throw the ball down the field. Its sad, but we haven't had that element of a passing attack since Favre and the NFL is a passing league.


I'm not going to try end defend Bradford, but I am going to provide some context:

In 15 games (2016), Bradford threw 20 touchdowns and 5 interceptions for a 99.3 Passer Rating. (He averaged 258.5 yards a game)

Tom Brady (2016): 28 touchdowns and 2 interceptions for a 112.2 Passer Rating. (Brady averaged 296.2 yards per game.)

Bridgewater (2015 - His most recent and best year) 14 touchdowns and 9 interceptions for a 88.7 Passer Rating (Bridgewater averaged 201.9 yards per game).


It doesn't take away from your main point that it's been a while since the Vikings have had 'elite' skill quarterback talent, but I do think that Bradford is a significant upgrade from Bridgewater. With the exception of touchdowns, Bradfords stats are closer to Brady's than Bridgewater's. Even comparing the touchdowns; Brady threw 8 more than Bradford, but Bradford still threw 6 more than Bridgewater.

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Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:06 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Just Me wrote:
I do think that Bradford is a significant upgrade from Bridgewater.

Me too, based on what I've seen thus far. But most people here seem to disagree. I feel like people would not be so obsessed with Bridgwater if he was not a first rounder and had some generic name like Tom Smith and had the exact same stats.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:13 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Just Me wrote:
mosscarter wrote:
you can only take analysts thoughts with a grain of salt too, but today I heard two people talking (not sure who exactly) and they both agreed Sam Bradford is the most overrated qb in the entire NFL for his salary. What did we get, 16 or 17 touchdowns from Teddy and 20 last year from Sam? Lets face it our lack of a passing game is a major problem. Even on plays where Bradford does get time he doesn't throw the ball down the field. Its sad, but we haven't had that element of a passing attack since Favre and the NFL is a passing league.


I'm not going to try end defend Bradford, but I am going to provide some context:

In 15 games (2016), Bradford threw 20 touchdowns and 5 interceptions for a 99.3 Passer Rating. (He averaged 258.5 yards a game)

Tom Brady (2016): 28 touchdowns and 2 interceptions for a 112.2 Passer Rating. (Brady averaged 296.2 yards per game.)

Bridgewater (2015 - His most recent and best year) 14 touchdowns and 9 interceptions for a 88.7 Passer Rating (Bridgewater averaged 201.9 yards per game).


It doesn't take away from your main point that it's been a while since the Vikings have had 'elite' skill quarterback talent, but I do think that Bradford is a significant upgrade from Bridgewater. With the exception of touchdowns, Bradfords stats are closer to Brady's than Bridgewater's. Even comparing the touchdowns; Brady threw 8 more than Bradford, but Bradford still threw 6 more than Bridgewater.
Brady missed the first four games last year too. To your point, Bradford is the best QB the Vikings have had since Culpepper (other than Favre in '09).

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Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:35 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Just Me wrote:
mosscarter wrote:
you can only take analysts thoughts with a grain of salt too, but today I heard two people talking (not sure who exactly) and they both agreed Sam Bradford is the most overrated qb in the entire NFL for his salary. What did we get, 16 or 17 touchdowns from Teddy and 20 last year from Sam? Lets face it our lack of a passing game is a major problem. Even on plays where Bradford does get time he doesn't throw the ball down the field. Its sad, but we haven't had that element of a passing attack since Favre and the NFL is a passing league.


I'm not going to try end defend Bradford, but I am going to provide some context:

In 15 games (2016), Bradford threw 20 touchdowns and 5 interceptions for a 99.3 Passer Rating. (He averaged 258.5 yards a game)

Tom Brady (2016): 28 touchdowns and 2 interceptions for a 112.2 Passer Rating. (Brady averaged 296.2 yards per game.)

Bridgewater (2015 - His most recent and best year) 14 touchdowns and 9 interceptions for a 88.7 Passer Rating (Bridgewater averaged 201.9 yards per game).


It doesn't take away from your main point that it's been a while since the Vikings have had 'elite' skill quarterback talent, but I do think that Bradford is a significant upgrade from Bridgewater. With the exception of touchdowns, Bradfords stats are closer to Brady's than Bridgewater's. Even comparing the touchdowns; Brady threw 8 more than Bradford, but Bradford still threw 6 more than Bridgewater.


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Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:49 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Just Me wrote:
mosscarter wrote:
you can only take analysts thoughts with a grain of salt too, but today I heard two people talking (not sure who exactly) and they both agreed Sam Bradford is the most overrated qb in the entire NFL for his salary. What did we get, 16 or 17 touchdowns from Teddy and 20 last year from Sam? Lets face it our lack of a passing game is a major problem. Even on plays where Bradford does get time he doesn't throw the ball down the field. Its sad, but we haven't had that element of a passing attack since Favre and the NFL is a passing league.


I'm not going to try end defend Bradford, but I am going to provide some context:

In 15 games (2016), Bradford threw 20 touchdowns and 5 interceptions for a 99.3 Passer Rating. (He averaged 258.5 yards a game)

Tom Brady (2016): 28 touchdowns and 2 interceptions for a 112.2 Passer Rating. (Brady averaged 296.2 yards per game.)

Bridgewater (2015 - His most recent and best year) 14 touchdowns and 9 interceptions for a 88.7 Passer Rating (Bridgewater averaged 201.9 yards per game).


It doesn't take away from your main point that it's been a while since the Vikings have had 'elite' skill quarterback talent, but I do think that Bradford is a significant upgrade from Bridgewater. With the exception of touchdowns, Bradfords stats are closer to Brady's than Bridgewater's. Even comparing the touchdowns; Brady threw 8 more than Bradford, but Bradford still threw 6 more than Bridgewater.



:appl:

I made this point earlier today, but all indications are that the running game will be improved from last year. While the pass blocking has been suspect this pre-season, the run blocking has been much improved. That will only help the QB. Still way too early to panic on 2017.

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Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:45 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
dead_poet wrote:

Must. Resist.


Nahhh. It's all good DP. Say what you want to say. I don't take disagreements personally and there's certainly much subjectivity in my opinion (even though I used some objective measures in forming my opinion).

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Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:19 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
the dink and dunk mindset needs to be obliterated and tossed to the side. It's not the 1990s anymore. The only WR we ever had that could take advantage of the West Coast Offense was Anthony Carter. He's our only wideout in years capable of serious Yards after the catch. We will NEVER win A SB with this punk, puny Girlish Sissifed West Coast @$&! 49ers offense approach. As long as we flirt with it, draft Players that fit it we are bound to LOSE. The way to win today is Draft An Oline, run the ball and deep pass. Dink and Dunk is STUPID and that's all I've seen us do since Childress


Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:27 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Just Me wrote:
mosscarter wrote:
you can only take analysts thoughts with a grain of salt too, but today I heard two people talking (not sure who exactly) and they both agreed Sam Bradford is the most overrated qb in the entire NFL for his salary. What did we get, 16 or 17 touchdowns from Teddy and 20 last year from Sam? Lets face it our lack of a passing game is a major problem. Even on plays where Bradford does get time he doesn't throw the ball down the field. Its sad, but we haven't had that element of a passing attack since Favre and the NFL is a passing league.


I'm not going to try end defend Bradford, but I am going to provide some context:

In 15 games (2016), Bradford threw 20 touchdowns and 5 interceptions for a 99.3 Passer Rating. (He averaged 258.5 yards a game)

Tom Brady (2016): 28 touchdowns and 2 interceptions for a 112.2 Passer Rating. (Brady averaged 296.2 yards per game.)

Bridgewater (2015 - His most recent and best year) 14 touchdowns and 9 interceptions for a 88.7 Passer Rating (Bridgewater averaged 201.9 yards per game).


It doesn't take away from your main point that it's been a while since the Vikings have had 'elite' skill quarterback talent, but I do think that Bradford is a significant upgrade from Bridgewater. With the exception of touchdowns, Bradfords stats are closer to Brady's than Bridgewater's. Even comparing the touchdowns; Brady threw 8 more than Bradford, but Bradford still threw 6 more than Bridgewater.


Bradford's stats combined with a "supposed" great defense should have EASILY lead to a 10-11 win season. Even in PS yes the O has not scored a TD but they have also had ZERO turnovers meaning they have not been giving the D short fields to defend yet they got gashed at every turn the last 2 PS games.

The QB is FAR from the problem, which Zimmer knows AND "the" reason he is MOST concerned...


Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:20 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Pro Football Focus rates our offensive line as much improved this year. While they graded the offensive line as 28th out of 32 teams last season, they project us to improve tremendously all the way to the 14th best line in the league.

If we truly have a better than league offensive line with an I believed improved rushing attack with Cook and Murray, there is no reason we cannot be 8-8 or better. I think a catastrophe would have to be on the level of last year's disastrous injury bug: Bradford out for the season, Cook or Murray out, huge injuries to our starting O line that shelve 3 or 4 players, etc.


Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:10 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
I'm glad we have Bradford. I think he's a good QB. Haven't watched him much so I really don't know how he'll be when the game is on the line. Not going to get into a debate on who's better.

I really do miss this though. A QB that can extend and make plays.


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Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:17 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
808vikingsfan wrote:
I'm glad we have Bradford. I think he's a good QB. Haven't watched him much so I really don't know how he'll be when the game is on the line. Not going to get into a debate on who's better.

I really do miss this though. A QB that can extend and make plays.


Here's a Highlight video for both Bradford and Bridgewater:


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Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:47 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
808vikingsfan wrote:
I'm glad we have Bradford. I think he's a good QB. Haven't watched him much so I really don't know how he'll be when the game is on the line. Not going to get into a debate on who's better.

I really do miss this though. A QB that can extend and make plays.




Double edge sword because BOTH of TB's seasons he was sacked more than ANY season in Sam's career.

Yeah Bridgewater could extend plays (at least before this injury) but also held the ball forever, produced few (14 both years) TD's, and was heavily dependant on a good/great run game.

Sam came in on very short notice, had to pick up TWO offenses (not counting the Eagle's prior to the trade) and played behind swiss cheese OL with historically poor run game.

Yeah he got dinged for the short passes a lot of times but with that line many of the throws were to replace runs. he also doesn't turn the ball over, has a cannon which can reach all quadrants of the field, is a super intelligent QB who has been on a major upswing since his first ACL tear in 2013 when in only 6.5 games he had 14 tds to 4 ints.

Understand he would have NEVER have been traded from the Rams without the ACL injuries.

But I suspect this is going to end with Teddy again being the QB and Vikings fans, who are his biggest supporters, will get to see if a) his knee holds up, b) if he's anywhere near as mobile as a he was and biggest of all c) if he has improved from the 14 td, high sack QB he was before.


Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:49 am
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
this seems to have been an extra-speculative offseason. thankfully it will all be moot once the games begin and the proof will be in the pudding.
whatever happens will happen between the hashmarks first and foremost.
the talent is there on both sides of the ball. failing a slew of injury catastrophies, if this team doesn't win more games it will be heads rolling next offseason, is my prediction.


Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:12 pm
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Post Re: this could get really really ugly
Nunin wrote:
this seems to have been an extra-speculative offseason. thankfully it will all be moot once the games begin and the proof will be in the pudding.
whatever happens will happen between the hashmarks first and foremost.
the talent is there on both sides of the ball. failing a slew of injury catastrophies, if this team doesn't win more games it will be heads rolling next offseason, is my prediction.


I think you are correct and if the Vikings don't improve this season, heads should rightfully roll.

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Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:09 pm
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