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 Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle 
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Mothman wrote:
CbusVikesFan wrote:
This thread could have been started 5 years ago. Along with a QB, LB, G, and a half dozen other positions on both sides of the ball. Does anyone remember all the bemoaning everyone did about WR's a few years ago? What do we have after all of these years? One proven guy that was drafted. I'm amazed at how bad the line was and how well Bradford did in spite of it. And to not bolster the sorest spot on the offense long term befuddles me. If the Vikings play it right, Sam will get us where we want to go. Have to put the right pieces in front of him. It wouldn't have killed us to draft at least one frickin tackle. Someone needs to tell Rick that Moss is not walking through that door to play ever again and there was only one. Lay off the wr's for a minute. How many have been drafted since Rick has been here?


12 (13 if you count Joe Webb, who was initially drafted to play WR). 4 of them were drafted in the first 2 rounds.

Good Lord! Exasperating. There ya have it.

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Tue May 02, 2017 5:33 pm
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
808vikingsfan wrote:
Supposed to be a deep OT class next year from what I've heard. Rome wasn't...


But right now our problem is who is going to be RG. Next season if we decide to not keep Boone and Berger retires.
We will need to find players at them spots.
I'm intrested to see how Reid Fragel does in the preseason. Could him and Hill be depth at the tackle spots.


Wed May 03, 2017 8:24 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
CbusVikes hit the nail on the head.......its all a long term problem with no short fix.


Wed May 03, 2017 10:43 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
halfgiz wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
Supposed to be a deep OT class next year from what I've heard. Rome wasn't...


But right now our problem is who is going to be RG. Next season if we decide to not keep Boone and Berger retires.
We will need to find players at them spots.
I'm intrested to see how Reid Fragel does in the preseason. Could him and Hill be depth at the tackle spots.


Boone is signed through 2019. I'd be shocked if they release him outright prior to that. Isiorda has a shot at the RG spot in a couple years, barring draft/FA.

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Wed May 03, 2017 11:26 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
So, what's the deal with Smith, the right tackle? Is he one and done or is he still in the mix there?
Is that even the correct name? I'm talkin about the FA they signed with Boone last year.


Wed May 03, 2017 12:26 pm
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Nunin wrote:
So, what's the deal with Smith, the right tackle? Is he one and done or is he still in the mix there?
Is that even the correct name? I'm talkin about the FA they signed with Boone last year.


He was a FA and re-signed with Cincy.

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Wed May 03, 2017 12:28 pm
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Thanks DP.


Wed May 03, 2017 12:42 pm
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
chicagopurple wrote:
CbusVikes hit the nail on the head.......its all a long term problem with no short fix.

Some days I think we have hope to be headed in the right direction then every year it's a different hot spot to address, that doesn't. I shake my head at the draft almost every year. This year I was sure that all of the picks would make sense and have value for the pick.

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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
CbusVikesFan wrote:
chicagopurple wrote:
CbusVikes hit the nail on the head.......its all a long term problem with no short fix.

Some days I think we have hope to be headed in the right direction then every year it's a different hot spot to address, that doesn't. I shake my head at the draft almost every year. This year I was sure that all of the picks would make sense and have value for the pick.


Every team every year has a hot spot to address. GB with secondary and RB, Seattle with their OL and interior DL, Dallas with their D backfield, I can go on and on. Just because we have a different spot to address every year doesnt say much. All teams do.

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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
CbusVikesFan wrote:
chicagopurple wrote:
CbusVikes hit the nail on the head.......its all a long term problem with no short fix.

Some days I think we have hope to be headed in the right direction then every year it's a different hot spot to address, that doesn't. I shake my head at the draft almost every year. This year I was sure that all of the picks would make sense and have value for the pick.


Every team every year has a hot spot to address. GB with secondary and RB, Seattle with their OL and interior DL, Dallas with their D backfield, I can go on and on. Just because we have a different spot to address every year doesnt say much. All teams do.

Yea, and you missed what I said after that, it "doesn't" get addressed until after it's a "hot mess". I don't give a crap who else has a hot spot, I'm talking about Vikings. When you have a certain need that is more glaring than any other position and year after year it is ignored is what I am talking about. Need O-line, grab a wr or two. Need a LB, draft one late and hope for the best.

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Thu May 04, 2017 8:18 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
The fact that TJ Clemmings is still on the roster is VERY discouraging to me. He is easily the worst OL I saw play for any team last year. And I watched him at Pitt too and could not believe the Vikings drafted him. He is just BAD.


Thu May 04, 2017 8:19 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
RFIP wrote:
The fact that TJ Clemmings is still on the roster is VERY discouraging to me. He is easily the worst OL I saw play for any team last year. And I watched him at Pitt too and could not believe the Vikings drafted him. He is just BAD.


I agree and it bothers me too. I'm not sure why Beavers is still on the roster either, although I doubt he'll make it any further than the practice squad this year, if he even gets that far.

Clemmings continued presence on the roster speaks to an issue I've had with vikings management for years now. They're too willing to settle and stick with ineffective players for years. Why keep Clemmings around? Use that roster spot on another player. Maybe that player won't prove to be any more effective than T. J. has been but at least the effort would indicate the team is trying to improve on an obvious weakness.


Thu May 04, 2017 8:31 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Mothman wrote:
RFIP wrote:
The fact that TJ Clemmings is still on the roster is VERY discouraging to me. He is easily the worst OL I saw play for any team last year. And I watched him at Pitt too and could not believe the Vikings drafted him. He is just BAD.


I agree and it bothers me too. I'm not sure why Beavers is still on the roster either, although I doubt he'll make it any further than the practice squad this year, if he even gets that far.

Clemmings continued presence on the roster speaks to an issue I've had with vikings management for years now. They're too willing to settle and stick with ineffective players for years. Why keep Clemmings around? Use that roster spot on another player. Maybe that player won't prove to be any more effective than T. J. has been but at least the effort would indicate the team is trying to improve on an obvious weakness.

My guess is since he is going into his 3rd year, they are hoping for developmental improvement. He certainly didn't show much last season, so Idk. I assume he also isn't making much money. I still think they should try him at guard, or even at DE. Why did Pitt change him to OL?

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Thu May 04, 2017 8:52 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
PurpleMustReign wrote:
My guess is since he is going into his 3rd year, they are hoping for developmental improvement. He certainly didn't show much last season, so Idk. I assume he also isn't making much money. I still think they should try him at guard, or even at DE. Why did Pitt change him to OL?


I don't remember, although I think I read about it when he was first drafted.

I assume they're looking for developmental improvement too. Maybe they'll get it but at this point it seems to me he'd have to improve so much that moving on would be a more prudent choice. Maybe he'll prove me wrong....

You're correct, by NFL standards, he's not making much money. On the other hand, if I could make even a 1/4 of what he's making, it would be life-changing! :)


Thu May 04, 2017 9:06 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Can you play tackle, Jim?
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I can see it now: Vikings sign converted artist from Chicago for depth at tackle. High risk high reward and a feel good story.
He'll start out on the PS alongside the German Unicorn.
Spielman: 'The sky is the limit with this guy and we're particularly excited that he's happy to play for 1/4 of Clemming's salary, so, it was really a no brainer.'


Thu May 04, 2017 9:49 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Nunin wrote:
Can you play tackle, Jim?
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I can see it now: Vikings sign converted artist from Chicago for depth at tackle. High risk high reward and a feel good story.
He'll start out on the PS alongside the German Unicorn.
Spielman: 'The sky is the limit with this guy and we're particularly excited that he's happy to play for 1/4 of Clemming's salary, so, it was really a no brainer.'


:lol:

If you give me 6 months to train and bulk up, I'm sure I could be wholly inadequate for a play or two. At 5' 8", I have the ideal height and reach for the position!


Thu May 04, 2017 9:57 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
You would also do well to have a viral video of you knocking people on their butts in someone's backyard and acting ferocious.
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Now that I think about it, you should have one of those anyway.


Thu May 04, 2017 10:19 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Nunin wrote:
You would also do well to have a viral video of you knocking people on their butts in someone's backyard and acting ferocious.
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Now that I think about it, you should have one of those anyway.


:rofl:


Thu May 04, 2017 10:23 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
CbusVikesFan wrote:
Yea, and you missed what I said after that, it "doesn't" get addressed until after it's a "hot mess". I don't give a crap who else has a hot spot, I'm talking about Vikings. When you have a certain need that is more glaring than any other position and year after year it is ignored is what I am talking about. Need O-line, grab a wr or two. Need a LB, draft one late and hope for the best.


When has LB all of the sudden become some glaring need?? We had no WLB. A player that plays about 20-30 snaps a game. And no we didnt "draft one late and hope for the best". We drafted two (one in the 4th and one in the 7th) plus still have Lamur who could play the spot. So no LB is nowhere near a "hot mess".

What you're saying has literally only happened with OL. Every other glaring need we've had over the past few years has pretty much been addressed. Need a CB, drafted Waynes. Need a LB, drafted Kendricks. Need a WR, drafted Treadwell. Need a RB, drafted Cook. I dont see anything else that has recently become a "hot mess" other than the OL. And we grabbed a WR or two because it was a GLARING need before last years draft. Many people seem to forget about that. Who was Adam Thielen last offseason? A special teams player. Who was CP? A special teams player that couldnt learn an offense. Jarius Wright was a middling talent at best. Charles Johnson came off a practice squad. Yeah OL was a big need but are we really going to sit here and say we didnt need a WR last offseason just as bad?? Come on now.

Bottom line is, the offensive line is what became a "hot mess" over the years. Since Zimmer has gotten here, I would say we've improved just about every position on the team outside of OL. I cant really say any position on this team is WORSE than it was in 2014 when he got here when you look at our current roster. They also addressed the OL very heavily this offseason so the jury is out there

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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Mothman wrote:
I'm not sure why Beavers is still on the roster either, although I doubt he'll make it any further than the practice squad this year, if he even gets that far.


Pretty pointless to release a 4th round guard going into his second year when you dont even know what you have in him yet. You've talked about us not "developing" talent on the OL. Well how can you "develop" a 4th round pick if you cut him after year 1?? Thats the definition of impatience. Similar to what some fans have with Treadwell and had with Waynes

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Thu May 04, 2017 10:46 am
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
CbusVikesFan wrote:
Yea, and you missed what I said after that, it "doesn't" get addressed until after it's a "hot mess". I don't give a crap who else has a hot spot, I'm talking about Vikings. When you have a certain need that is more glaring than any other position and year after year it is ignored is what I am talking about. Need O-line, grab a wr or two. Need a LB, draft one late and hope for the best.


When has LB all of the sudden become some glaring need??


He was just throwing out examples from past years.


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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Mothman wrote:

He was just throwing out examples from past years.


Are you sure about that? Because it sure sounds like he was talking about this year. He followed up the OL/WR thing (which was last year) with the drafting a LB late (I'm guessing he was referring to Lee this year?). We had bad LB's way back when Frazier was here which has very little relevance to now. They've been pretty stellar since he left so I'm not really concerned.

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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote:
I'm not sure why Beavers is still on the roster either, although I doubt he'll make it any further than the practice squad this year, if he even gets that far.


Pretty pointless to release a 4th round guard going into his second year when you dont even know what you have in him yet. You've talked about us not "developing" talent on the OL. Well how can you "develop" a 4th round pick if you cut him after year 1?? Thats the definition of impatience. Similar to what some fans have with Treadwell and had with Waynes


There's a difference between impatience and just cutting your losses. Some drafted players don't even make the teams that drafted them. It's not pointless to cut them.

I want them to develop players whose performance merits the investment of time and resources. I don't want them to stick with players whose performance doesn't appear to justify that effort but if they feel Beavers deserves another year and they think they can actually develop him into a quality NFL lineman, they should keep him around. After all, it's their call, not mine.


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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote:

He was just throwing out examples from past years.


Are you sure about that?


Yes... at least I thought so. :lol: He talked about that LB issue for years when it was definitely a hot spot that needed to be addressed but it's possible he was only referring to this past draft. However, he made it clear in his initial post that his frustration extended beyond this year.


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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Mothman wrote:
There's a difference between impatience and just cutting your losses. Some drafted players don't even make the teams that drafted them. It's not pointless to cut them.

I want them to develop players whose performance merits the investment of time and resources. I don't want them to stick with players whose performance doesn't appear to justify that effort but if they feel Beavers deserves another year and they think they can actually develop him into a quality NFL lineman, they should keep him around. After all, it's their call, not mine.


Yeah but at the same time, I'm not sure you can say the guy is a "loss" after 1 year in the league. Guys like Sullivan and Fusco didnt started a combined zero games in their rookie seasons. Were they considered a loss after their rookie year? I'm sure some people thought that. You gotta give some of these guys time. That's my thing. So many fans seem to get impatient (not referring directly to you) with draft picks. It drives me nuts. Do you know how many guys across this league never made an impact whatsoever in their first year or two?? A LOT. We drafted these guys, give them time to adapt and see if they can make an impact. You cut your losses in year 3 or 4. Not the offseason going into a guys 2nd year. When he hasnt even gotten on the field to prove if he's any good or not

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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Yeah but at the same time, I'm not sure you can say the guy is a "loss" after 1 year in the league.


You're right, I certainly can't do so definitively.

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Guys like Sullivan and Fusco didnt started a combined zero games in their rookie seasons. Were they considered a loss after their rookie year? I'm sure some people thought that. You gotta give some of these guys time. That's my thing. So many fans seem to get impatient (not referring directly to you) with draft picks. It drives me nuts. Do you know how many guys across this league never made an impact whatsoever in their first year or two?? A LOT. We drafted these guys, give them time to adapt and see if they can make an impact. You cut your losses in year 3 or 4. Not the offseason going into a guys 2nd year. When he hasnt even gotten on the field to prove if he's any good or not


I see your point but sometimes, a player is a loss after one year. That happens too so these things run a full range and not every draft pick gets a 3 or 4 window in which to prove himself. With some players, patience is merited and with others, it's not. The reason I made that comment about Beavers is because he's off to a particularly poor start. He not only didn't play in his first year, he's a 4th round pick who couldn't even make the final roster on a team that needed OL help. He was cut at the end of the preseason and then signed to the practice squad, perhaps because he was a 4th round investment and they were reluctant to give up on him too fast.


Thu May 04, 2017 12:21 pm
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
S197 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Where do they go from here? That's the question that concerns me. Have they taken enough steps toward addressing their issues in the long term or have they just put another band-aid over a broken leg, like they did last season? I feel they still have quite a bit of work to do and while I realize it's not a problem that can be wholly solved in one offseason, I don't think they've done enough to address it yet this year.


I think it's somewhere in the middle right now. The projected starting line is an upgrade and with players who do not have the injury history of our previous tackles. They shored up the interior of the line and I think they have pretty good depth there.

That being said, it's football and if Reiff and/or Remmers goes down, it may spell trouble. Hill looked decent and may provide depth but his body of work is limited. Sirles may work in a pinch but difficult to tell.

I think depending on how the rookie's work out determines if they've done enough. Ideally Elflein becomes your long-term center and perhaps Isidora can take over for Berger who probably has a year or two left in the tank. Hopefully someone (anyone!) can beat Clemmings out of a backup job.

My early assessment is they could probably use a better depth player at RT. They may have that in a guy like Shepherd but that remains to be seen.


Hill played in the last game of the season and did OK. That is positive, but we've yet to see what happens if he plays in several games and teams start to figure out his tendencies. The latter is what did Clemmings in. Once the league realized he stand to far upright it was a feeding frenzy.

The under analyzed angle on the OL is the coaching. Clemmings was an obvious disaster for basically the entire season and he didn't improve with experience. This is on top of his awful performance in 2015 playing in place of Loadholt. The question I've had is why did it take until Week 17 to try Hill? Is Hill THAT much worse than Clemmings? Or are the coaches TOO stubborn? Why has Clemmings failed to improve at all after 2 full seasons as a starter? Is he THAT stupid? I have no proof, but it feels like there is more here than just the talent level.

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Thu May 04, 2017 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
@Squatch
I too am somewhat dubious of the coaching on that side of the ball. It seems, mostly, that the guys who prevail have inherent natural ability.
Theilen has improved....he's not the only one...but how difficult is it to coach an AD? or a Diggs?
Still...rather than chalk it up to straight coaching, my feel is that it's more systemic. QB play and blocking schemes effect line play and so on. I'm not convinced that the offense has had a flow from coordinator-coaches-scheme-talent/abilities....weaknesses/strengths of players, since Zimmer has been here. Throw Spielman into that mix too.
In short...aside from the legacy of bad O-line play, I think Turner was the square peg...the line play and injuries just exaccerbated it.
Musgrave did well here and is killing it in Oakland. I hope Shurmur can ake advantage of his opportunity.


Thu May 04, 2017 3:34 pm
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
mansquatch wrote:
Hill played in the last game of the season and did OK. That is positive, but we've yet to see what happens if he plays in several games and teams start to figure out his tendencies. The latter is what did Clemmings in. Once the league realized he stand to far upright it was a feeding frenzy.


I disagree that Clemmings was EVER competent. Hill showed more in that one game than Clemmings ever did. I really want to see more of Hill in camp/preseason.

Quote:
The under analyzed angle on the OL is the coaching. Clemmings was an obvious disaster for basically the entire season and he didn't improve with experience. This is on top of his awful performance in 2015 playing in place of Loadholt. The question I've had is why did it take until Week 17 to try Hill? Is Hill THAT much worse than Clemmings? Or are the coaches TOO stubborn? Why has Clemmings failed to improve at all after 2 full seasons as a starter? Is he THAT stupid? I have no proof, but it feels like there is more here than just the talent level.


It's so frustrating. I assume it's because he got a lot more reps and that whole "continuity" and "chemistry" thing. They also may have been worried what that may have done for his confidence and were likely none too eager to throw in the towel, which may have been what a move like that would've suggested.

Still...MORE HILL.

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Thu May 04, 2017 4:00 pm
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Post Re: Vikings still have to add depth at offensive tackle
Rashod Hill is the 'cowbell' of O-linemen.


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