O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by halfgiz »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: There aren't many centers out there. I would love Pat Elfein or Ethan Pocic in the draft. Both can play guard/center. Wagners contract is completely up in the air
Lane Johnson's yearly salary is $11,252,000....with all the people going after Wagner look for him to be in that range.

The NYJ, Denver Broncos, LA Rams, Seattle, Raiders, Carolina, NYG, Browns, Chargers and the Vikings have all been somewhat linked to having intrest.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by mansquatch »

I'm rather cool on them grabbing a high priced Guard. Even if they get the top guy in FA, if they do not improve their situation at Tackle it will not matter all that much. The high end guard isn't going to help against edge rushers and he isn't going to offset to the disaster that will likely ensue if TJ Clemmings (or similar disaster) starts again.

This is just arm chair speculation, but I think they released Fusco/Harris because they felt that most of the free agent market, even the 2nd and 3rd tier guys, would be a net improvement.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by chicagopurple »

Clemmings and Kalil also need to be kicked to the curb.....Kalil has leached off this teams payroll long enough and Clemmings is just a tackling dummy on a sled going perpetually backwards.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by IrishViking »

chicagopurple wrote:Clemmings and Kalil also need to be kicked to the curb.....Kalil has leached off this teams payroll long enough and Clemmings is just a tackling dummy on a sled going perpetually backwards.

I mean, Clemmings probably. Kalil though is actually a passable tackle... I know, I know, you want all world talent, the greatest line in history. 5 players who will be the measuring stick against which all other future Olinemen will be judged. But sometimes, the 20th best tackle in the league can get it done. Replacing Kalil with a statistical improvement is borderline impossible this season, it would shoot the Vikings in the foot to bail on him. If we moves on we will be WEAKER at that position barring a miracle
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

mansquatch wrote:I'm rather cool on them grabbing a high priced Guard. Even if they get the top guy in FA, if they do not improve their situation at Tackle it will not matter all that much. The high end guard isn't going to help against edge rushers and he isn't going to offset to the disaster that will likely ensue if TJ Clemmings (or similar disaster) starts again.

This is just arm chair speculation, but I think they released Fusco/Harris because they felt that most of the free agent market, even the 2nd and 3rd tier guys, would be a net improvement.
Well that's why I'd rather have Wagner. It's much easier to find guards than tackles and we have no first. If we're ok with paying a guy like Zeitler 8 mill then I'd rather throw Wagner $10 mill instead just because the position is harder to come by. I wouldn't be upset with Zeitler at all but what worries me is that we would have a very solid interior and probably questionable tackles.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

IrishViking wrote:
I mean, Clemmings probably. Kalil though is actually a passable tackle... I know, I know, you want all world talent, the greatest line in history. 5 players who will be the measuring stick against which all other future Olinemen will be judged. But sometimes, the 20th best tackle in the league can get it done. Replacing Kalil with a statistical improvement is borderline impossible this season, it would shoot the Vikings in the foot to bail on him. If we moves on we will be WEAKER at that position barring a miracle
Yes!! Someone explained it much better than I could lol. This is 100% the exact reason I want to hold onto Kalil. See if we can get like a 2 year deal out of him and draft a tackle high to sit behind him or possibly start if he flops. That's far and away the best option for LT IMO. Keep Kalil and draft a LT with our 2nd
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by PurpleMustReign »

I would still rather have a wet brick over Kalil. Clemmings is baf too don't get me wrong but at least his on field attitude is better than Kalil and he will help up the QB when he allowed a sack. Kalil would just walk away like he was mad at the QB for not getting out of the way.

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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by chicagopurple »

get real, Kalil is 1- poor at his position, 2- perfected the ability to commit critical penalties at critical moments, 3- certain to spend half the season on IR collecting yet another unearned paycheck....get over it, he is a parasite at this point and brings nothing good to the table.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by mansquatch »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Yes!! Someone explained it much better than I could lol. This is 100% the exact reason I want to hold onto Kalil. See if we can get like a 2 year deal out of him and draft a tackle high to sit behind him or possibly start if he flops. That's far and away the best option for LT IMO. Keep Kalil and draft a LT with our 2nd
If they can find someone better I'm all for it, but I agree with your view. The guy they need might not be out there, and what is out there might be marginally better but substantially cap unfriendly. Injuries are the major concern though. Kalil will be a waste no matter what we pay him if he can't play 16 games and old #68 starts taking snaps.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

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chicagopurple wrote:get real, Kalil is 1- poor at his position, 2- perfected the ability to commit critical penalties at critical moments, 3- certain to spend half the season on IR collecting yet another unearned paycheck....get over it, he is a parasite at this point and brings nothing good to the table.
Kalil leaves a lot to be desired that is for sure, but if the choice is between Kalil and #68, I choose Kalil every single time. Kalil might be below average, but Clemmings is the saboteur. More Below Average please.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by PurpleMustReign »

mansquatch wrote: Kalil leaves a lot to be desired that is for sure, but if the choice is between Kalil and #68, I choose Kalil every single time. Kalil might be below average, but Clemmings is the saboteur. More Below Average please.

I get it... I really do... but I really soured on Kalil after 2015. I am sure they will bring him back, but I would really not shed a tear if they didn't.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

chicagopurple wrote:get real, Kalil is 1- poor at his position, 2- perfected the ability to commit critical penalties at critical moments, 3- certain to spend half the season on IR collecting yet another unearned paycheck....get over it, he is a parasite at this point and brings nothing good to the table.
Then please name me a better option that won't cost a fortune?? Any ideas? Because everyone is pretty much stumped when it comes to this. Kalil is nowhere near as bad as Clemmings. Like zero comparison. And this is the first season he's ever missed legitimate time so I'm not sure why its so certain he lands on IR.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by IrishViking »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Then please name me a better option that won't cost a fortune?? Any ideas? Because everyone is pretty much stumped when it comes to this. Kalil is nowhere near as bad as Clemmings. Like zero comparison. And this is the first season he's ever missed legitimate time so I'm not sure why its so certain he lands on IR.

Seconded. I am ALL for moving on if you can find me a STATISTICALLY better player at his position. Not just better because he isn't named Kalil.
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by Mothman »

IrishViking wrote:Seconded. I am ALL for moving on if you can find me a STATISTICALLY better player at his position. Not just better because he isn't named Kalil.
Reliable O-line stats are hard to find.

There seems to be an underlying assumption here that the Vikings can just choose to re-sign Kalil on their own favorable terms. However, if the Bengals re-sign 35 year old LT Andrew Whitworth, Kalil could end up being the top free agent left tackle available, or at least one of them. That might be hard for Vikes fans to comprehend but the market is thin because teams rarely let good left tackles get away. It's no longer up to the Vikings alone to decide if they want to "move on" from Kalil. He can decide if he wants to return and he can also decide if he's willing to accept a potential contract offer from the Vikes before free agency begins or if he wants to field offers.

As for potential alternatives in free agency: there's Reiff (who I think is better-suited to the right side) or they could roll the dice on Redskins backup and restricted free agent, Ty Nsekhe, who performed well when asked to start last year.

This brings me back to the question I was asking about Wagner in another thread: how much is too much? If Kalil IS the best option, what should they be willing to pay him and for how long?
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Re: O-line changes have begun -- Vikes release Fusco, Harris

Post by chicagopurple »

I feel it is SPielmans responsibility to find some servicable guys in the draft. They dont need to be future ProBowlers. A few just need to be Healthy (Kalil is not and never will be) baseline players which would be far better then Kalil or Clemmings. Not every draft pick at OL has to be a homerun. If we think there is no way that Spielman and his staff can find a guy to replace this position then he is a failure by definition.
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