Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings!

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losperros
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by losperros »

Mothman wrote:

The Bears had one foot out the door in that game and a third string QB/turnover machine as their starting QB. I'm glad the Vikes showed some pride and closed out the season with a win but that wasn't a terribly impressive victory.
Really all the win over the Bears showed is the Vikings were one of the better bad teams. I doubt the Bears could have beaten anyone, given the state of their team at the time.

OTOH, I'm glad the Vikings played to win in the game. It certainly was a team effort.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by Mothman »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I highly doubt all of them would be gone. Wouldnt be surprised if they asked Robison to take a pay cut. Greenway had little impact on this defense anymore. Floyd would result in a dead money hit, Newman could retire or be back for 1 more and I'm hoping they hold onto Munnerlyn unless they feel Alexander is ready.

Either way, I don't see all of them leaving.
Some of them leaving would still represent change from the 2015 roster, which was the point.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by Mothman »

losperros wrote:Really all the win over the Bears showed is the Vikings were one of the better bad teams. I doubt the Bears could have beaten anyone, given the state of their team at the time.
I do too and you could see from very early in the game that most of that team had checked out.
OTOH, I'm glad the Vikings played to win in the game. It certainly was a team effort.
I'm glad too, especially after the way they played in the previous two games.

I've been thinking about this thread/discussion and while I'm sure the views I've been expressing here seem like pessimism to some, I think they might be best described as skepticism. As you and I discussed up-thread, it's possible the Vikings could turn things around and be very successful next year. I'm not going to rule that out but I'm very skeptical that they will actually do it and I think there are some pretty good reasons to be skeptical.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by Raptorman »

mansquatch wrote:Here is a fun stat for you: Since 2001 the AFC champion has been one of three guys in all but two seasons: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Big Ben. The two exceptions were Rich Gannon in 2002 and Joe Flacco in 2012.

The NFC by contrast has had 12 different QBs represent it's champion in that time. The only repeats are Kurt Warner (with 2 different teams), Eli Manning, and Russel Wilson, each with 2 wins. IMO, this should offer us some consolation.

Another fun stat. Ages of the starting QBs in 2016:

Matt Ryan: 31 (FWIW, he is the odd guy here, has he taken the next step?)
Aaron Rogers: 33
Ben Roethlisburger: 34
Tom Brady: 39

All 4 guys are with the team that drafted them. (This isn't a shocker at all, if you had a franshise QB you'd pay him any sum to stay.) Another fun fact I'm not going to take the time to figure out: How many QBs have washed out of the league since Brady was drafted? How many are in their 8th or 9th season?

This is year where the veteran elite QBs are the kings. The three strongest defensive teams to make it to the playoffs were HOU, SEA and KC, all hampered by injuries to some of their key players (Watt, Houston, and Thomas.) This season represents a bit of a deviation from the past three where the dominant defense went to the SB. (and won it twice.) The question is whether this marks a change or if it is an aberration?

IMO, it is the latter. The Dallas team that went 13-3 this year was deeply flawed. The QBs we are seeing play next weekend are not doing anything new that they haven't done in the past. There have not been any major rule changes either. This is just a year where none of the defensive teams had enough balance to win the big games: SEA misses Lynch and Wilson was injured most of the season, losing Thomas in the playoffs hurt a lot. Oswieller is not playing well enough for HOU to win it all. KC didn't have enough offensive punch yesterday and their best defensive player, Houston, wasn't playing at 100%. CAR went into the tank after a dissappointing SB loss. DEN needs to find better QB play. Our poor Vikings were mired in the Injury abyss and their HC couldn't pull them out of the swamp once the losing started.

What will 2017 hold for the strong defensive teams?
Ok, this may be true in yards per game. But in PPG the leader is still in the playoffs. The New England Patriots. They ranked 8th in yards per game and 1st in PPG. But, it's all Brady.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by S197 »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I think it's safe to say we would have never been in that position in the first place if Walsh made the XP that game. Makes it a 4 point game and forced Detroit to score with 23 seconds left. Very good chance that wasnt happening.
Not only did he miss the XP but he also botched the kickoff. After the 15-yard penalty, all he had to do was mortar kick it to run clock and pin the lions but he knocked it into the end zone.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by losperros »

Mothman wrote:I'm glad too, especially after the way they played in the previous two games.

I've been thinking about this thread/discussion and while I'm sure the views I've been expressing here seem like pessimism to some, I think they might be best described as skepticism. As you and I discussed up-thread, it's possible the Vikings could turn things around and be very successful next year. I'm not going to rule that out but I'm very skeptical that they will actually do it and I think there are some pretty good reasons to be skeptical.
I know what you mean, Jim. I feel the same way.

BTW, the "two games" you mention have something to do with my skepticism. As I said before, I thought the games indicated some deep problems within the team. Sometimes those things take a long, long time to be corrected, if they can be corrected at all.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Mothman wrote: Some of them leaving would still represent change from the 2015 roster, which was the point.
Well of course there is going to be some sort of change. I don't think he was really saying there would be zero change. It's just that there wasnt drastic rebuild type changes or anything. A few here and there and that was it.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

S197 wrote:
Not only did he miss the XP but he also botched the kickoff. After the 15-yard penalty, all he had to do was mortar kick it to run clock and pin the lions but he knocked it into the end zone.
Exactly. To say that loss wasnt on Walsh is an understatement. Say whatever you will regarding us not stop Detroit in OT but we would have never been in that position if it wasnt for Walsh.

I kept saying to a buddy of mine in the beginning of the year that it seems like they were waiting for him to cost us another game before they decided to let him go. And as the games went on and he missed and missed, I continued to say that he was bound to cost us a game and that's exactly what he did. With the way Forbath kicked, I don't see any way we lose that game if we had him.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by 808vikingsfan »

Me? I'm excited for next season. We know the defense will be solid. The most important position (QB) looks solid as well. If they can just make the OL respectable and find a DT and RB, the Vikings will have a good chance to make a run next year. As bad as this year seemed, the Vikings were only a couple of wins away from making the playoffs.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by Jordysghost »

Raptorman wrote: Ok, this may be true in yards per game. But in PPG the leader is still in the playoffs. The New England Patriots. They ranked 8th in yards per game and 1st in PPG. But, it's all Brady.
He seems to have it in his head that a great QB and good O is mutually exclusive to a good D.

I do agree that the Pats are a little inflated, and arent ACTUALLY, the very best D in the league, but they are certainly a good unit.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

808vikingsfan wrote:Me? I'm excited for next season. We know the defense will be solid. The most important position (QB) looks solid as well. If they can just make the OL respectable and find a DT and RB, the Vikings will have a good chance to make a run next year. As bad as this year seemed, the Vikings were only a couple of wins away from making the playoffs.

Anyone that is a true fan of this team is always going to be interested in them. No matter if they win the SB or go 0-16, I'm always going to root for them and be very interested in every offseason
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by chicagopurple »

Those of us who have been viking fans for 3-4 decades are more likely to be utterly disgusted and fed up. We have seen countless cycles like this. In reality, we are no where near being a contender. The OL is a wreck, and NO, injuries are not to blame there as virtually ALL the starters, their replacements, and the guys off the street that were allowed to put on the purple this year were ALL sub-standard. It is a HUGE problem and pretty much all the current OL players need to go.
We are about to see AP leave, having wasted a Hall Of Fame RB Career thanks to various owners and coaches who couldnt put a winner around him.
Our Defense is very good but is only aging as we spin our wheels on offense.
Our Coach seemed to regress this year.
The rest of the league is also looking for OL help so the picking will be slim.
It looks pretty crappy and I am tired of 40 yrs of mediocrity.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by Mothman »

chicagopurple wrote:Those of us who have been viking fans for 3-4 decades are more likely to be utterly disgusted and fed up. We have seen countless cycles like this.
Bingo. We're in all-too-familiar territory.
In reality, we are no where near being a contender. The OL is a wreck, and NO, injuries are not to blame there as virtually ALL the starters, their replacements, and the guys off the street that were allowed to put on the purple this year were ALL sub-standard. It is a HUGE problem and pretty much all the current OL players need to go.
We are about to see AP leave, having wasted a Hall Of Fame RB Career thanks to various owners and coaches who couldnt put a winner around him.
Our Defense is very good but is only aging as we spin our wheels on offense.
Our Coach seemed to regress this year.
The rest of the league is also looking for OL help so the picking will be slim.
It looks pretty crappy and I am tired of 40 yrs of mediocrity.
I am too and it's increasingly hard to imagine it ending with Rick Spielman in charge.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by losperros »

chicagopurple wrote:Those of us who have been viking fans for 3-4 decades are more likely to be utterly disgusted and fed up. We have seen countless cycles like this. In reality, we are no where near being a contender. The OL is a wreck, and NO, injuries are not to blame there as virtually ALL the starters, their replacements, and the guys off the street that were allowed to put on the purple this year were ALL sub-standard. It is a HUGE problem and pretty much all the current OL players need to go.
We are about to see AP leave, having wasted a Hall Of Fame RB Career thanks to various owners and coaches who couldn't put a winner around him.
Our Defense is very good but is only aging as we spin our wheels on offense.
Our Coach seemed to regress this year.
The rest of the league is also looking for OL help so the picking will be slim.
It looks pretty crappy and I am tired of 40 yrs of mediocrity.
I agree. The above is why I've been saying there are no quick and easy fixes to the problems, especially regarding the OL.

I'm glad you mentioned "various owners and coaches" as part of the problem. I think it still is.
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Re: Done, I have zero interest in following the 2017 Vikings

Post by chicagopurple »

The Steelers have had 3 coaches in the last 50 yrs......we go thru that many every 3-4 yrs.
The Patriots also are rock solid on coaching.
Ownership never changes in those town
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