Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Demi wrote:

Exactly. Start them on any team in the league they'll produce. So will plenty of receivers. This team has zero #1 receivers.

Treadwell? Start him week in and week out and we'll see. Otherwise? Guy's have got their snaps. And to me they all looked like depth/#3 guys. :confused:
Diggs and Thielen are both more than "#3 guys". Patterson, yeah. Treadwell, the jury is still out on.
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by Raptorman »

It would not surprise me to see Thielen, Johnson and Patterson resigned. Patterson seemed to be coming on this year in the WR area, something he should have been doing. I thing he has finally figured out that it takes work to be in the NFL. I did like the block he made in the Chicago game when Bradford was running the ball.

Thielen will stay.

Johnson? Well think of this. If they keep him on a lower priced contract, the one thing they don't have to worry about in the draft is WR. Same with Wright.
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by PurpleMustReign »

Did they ever say why Wright didn't play much?

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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by mansquatch »

They are setting Wright up as trade bait, the 5 receptions vs. Chicago was no fluke. Spielman loves to build up late round picks so he has ammo to move around. Wright is a perfect candidate to get a 6th or 7th round draft pick. Losing his contract will help the cap a bit also. (but not much.)
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by fiestavike »

mansquatch wrote:They are setting Wright up as trade bait, the 5 receptions vs. Chicago was no fluke. Spielman loves to build up late round picks so he has ammo to move around. Wright is a perfect candidate to get a 6th or 7th round draft pick. Losing his contract will help the cap a bit also. (but not much.)
That's pretty much my take. Wright's a fine player but he has little upside and once higher upside players were able to surpass his current abilities as an NFL player there was no room left on the field for him. One of Spielman's errors was re-signing him in the first place...although I think they were afraid that the cupboard would be completely empty if Patterson didn't develop. Little did they know Diggs and Thielen would be their two best WRs.
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by Raptorman »

From NFL.com. Thought this should go here instead of a new thread. Diggs is 5th.

Top-10 WRs in tight coverage.
The easiest way for a receiver to end up on the highlight reel is by winning a difficult pass in tight coverage and contested situations. While the catch is the part that garners our wonder, there are layers of skills that go into being in position, dealing the physicality from the cornerback and timing to win passes in tight coverage. It also takes the help of a quarterback able to put the ball in the area code of the targeted receiver.

Here we will use the NFL's Next Gen Stats tracking data to see which receivers caught the highest percentage of their targets when they had less than a yard of separation from the defender covering them. The 10 receivers on this list all showed an ability to work through tight coverage to win 50/50 balls and make the tough catches.

Notes: The minimum threshold for the Top-10 was 15 total targets with less than a yard of separation. The NFL average for catch rate on targets with less than a yard of separation is 40.5 percent.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... t-coverage
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by losperros »

Pondering Her Percy wrote:Diggs and Thielen are both more than "#3 guys". Patterson, yeah. Treadwell, the jury is still out on.
I couldn't agree more. Diggs and Thielen both had over 900 yards receiving. They're not "#3 guys."

Patterson was the #3 guy and he added 453 more yards.
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by autobon7 »

mansquatch wrote:Not really on the fill in thing. Diggs got nicked up this year and CP84 / Thielen gobbled the snaps. That's my point on Wright: He isn't seeing the field. So why keep paying him?

This last season he had 11 total receptions on 14 targets. Of those 11, 5(!) were in the last game of the year vs. CHI. Here is some way out there conjecture: Those receptions/targets were not because other people couldn't play.
It makes sense that he could be shopped but if it were me I'd send Johnson packing and go with Diggs, Thielen, Patterson, Wright and Treadwell. At least Wright has proven himself to be a worthy no. 3 when given the opportunity (42 catches for 588 yards in 2014). We just don't know what we have in Treadwell yet so I feel Wright is good insurance in case one of our top 3 go down.
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by w_huisman »

Is it just me, or does Patterson remind other people of Devon Hester?
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by VikingLord »

autobon7 wrote: It makes sense that he could be shopped but if it were me I'd send Johnson packing and go with Diggs, Thielen, Patterson, Wright and Treadwell. At least Wright has proven himself to be a worthy no. 3 when given the opportunity (42 catches for 588 yards in 2014). We just don't know what we have in Treadwell yet so I feel Wright is good insurance in case one of our top 3 go down.
Who is going to *trade* for a highly-paid WR who saw almost no playing time on a team that had overall crappy WR play all year?

To his credit, Wright did enough prior to this last season to earn a big contract extension, which, as others note, means the guy has raw talent and can contribute. But it appears once he got that money he tanked. Nobody is going to offer anything for a player like that, at least not in trade. I could see Spielman cut him and he might get some interest as a free agent, but it sure looks to me like Spielman flushed good money down the toilet with that deal.

And as for his playing time or lack thereof, does it really matter why he didn't see the field? I suppose it's possible it was a coaching conspiracy or incompetence that kept him off the field, but Patterson found a lot of playing time this year and he was supposedly the one the coaches had it in for prior to this season. Of course, he's another guy who is looking for an extension this offseason, so one has to wonder whether he's really hitting the prime of his career or just another guy who wants a big payday and then can fade back into the background. I'd be really cautious on that front if I'm Spielman. He really can't afford to flush any more money down the toilet this offseason.

I'm still extremely unimpressed by the receiver talent the Vikings have. I agree with Demi that there isn't a primary guy on the roster yet. They spent their first rounder on a guy who caught a single ball and showed almost nothing on his other snaps. I like Diggs but wonder if he can stay healthy. Thielen I think is legit, which is fantastic considering what they're paying him, but he's not going to be a game-breaker. The best receivers on the team are a TE and an undrafted free agent heading into an offseason where they won't have a 1st round pick, have huge holes all along the offensive line, and major questions to address at RB.

I don't know the $$$ implications of cutting Wright, but if he's till on the roster come next season he sure as heck better be a regular fixture in the starting lineup. Ditto for Patterson if he gets extended.
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

VikingLord wrote: Who is going to *trade* for a highly-paid WR who saw almost no playing time on a team that had overall crappy WR play all year?

To his credit, Wright did enough prior to this last season to earn a big contract extension, which, as others note, means the guy has raw talent and can contribute. But it appears once he got that money he tanked. Nobody is going to offer anything for a player like that, at least not in trade. I could see Spielman cut him and he might get some interest as a free agent, but it sure looks to me like Spielman flushed good money down the toilet with that deal.

And as for his playing time or lack thereof, does it really matter why he didn't see the field? I suppose it's possible it was a coaching conspiracy or incompetence that kept him off the field, but Patterson found a lot of playing time this year and he was supposedly the one the coaches had it in for prior to this season. Of course, he's another guy who is looking for an extension this offseason, so one has to wonder whether he's really hitting the prime of his career or just another guy who wants a big payday and then can fade back into the background. I'd be really cautious on that front if I'm Spielman. He really can't afford to flush any more money down the toilet this offseason.

I'm still extremely unimpressed by the receiver talent the Vikings have. I agree with Demi that there isn't a primary guy on the roster yet. They spent their first rounder on a guy who caught a single ball and showed almost nothing on his other snaps. I like Diggs but wonder if he can stay healthy. Thielen I think is legit, which is fantastic considering what they're paying him, but he's not going to be a game-breaker. The best receivers on the team are a TE and an undrafted free agent heading into an offseason where they won't have a 1st round pick, have huge holes all along the offensive line, and major questions to address at RB.

I don't know the $$$ implications of cutting Wright, but if he's till on the roster come next season he sure as heck better be a regular fixture in the starting lineup. Ditto for Patterson if he gets extended.
I'm really starting to question where everyone is coming up with "crappy WR play"?? We had two WRs near 1000 yards. Diggs would have hit it if he didnt get hurt. Plus we had a TE near 1000. Just because we don't have a Deandre Hopkins on this team doesnt mean we have bad WRs or need to find a guy like that. Diggs, Thielen, Patterson and Treadwell waiting is a good receiving core. Everyone is worried about being like everybody else and having some elite WR. We have 2 WRs on our roster that are probably better than any WR on the Patriots. They don't have a true #1. Granted they have Brady but point being, you don't need some stud #1 to have a good WR group. We don't even know what we have in Treadwell.

And Adam Thielen is not better than Stefon Diggs. Thielen had 60 more yards than Diggs and also played 3 more games than Diggs did. Plus Diggs was banged up in a lot of the games he played. Yes his health is a concern. But overall, none of these guys are the reason our offense wasnt performing. This is the best WR group we have had in a long time AND you have a first round pick you have waiting in the wings. Just because we don't have Julio Jones on our team like you and Demi think we need doesnt mean we don't have a good WR core. How many teams this year had TWO WRs over 1000 or nearly over 1000. Probably less than half the league. And one of the guys only played 13 games. So what does that tell you?
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by autobon7 »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I'm really starting to question where everyone is coming up with "crappy WR play"?? We had two WRs near 1000 yards. Diggs would have hit it if he didnt get hurt. Plus we had a TE near 1000. Just because we don't have a Deandre Hopkins on this team doesnt mean we have bad WRs or need to find a guy like that. Diggs, Thielen, Patterson and Treadwell waiting is a good receiving core. Everyone is worried about being like everybody else and having some elite WR. We have 2 WRs on our roster that are probably better than any WR on the Patriots. They don't have a true #1. Granted they have Brady but point being, you don't need some stud #1 to have a good WR group. We don't even know what we have in Treadwell.

And Adam Thielen is not better than Stefon Diggs. Thielen had 60 more yards than Diggs and also played 3 more games than Diggs did. Plus Diggs was banged up in a lot of the games he played. Yes his health is a concern. But overall, none of these guys are the reason our offense wasnt performing. This is the best WR group we have had in a long time AND you have a first round pick you have waiting in the wings. Just because we don't have Julio Jones on our team like you and Demi think we need doesnt mean we don't have a good WR core. How many teams this year had TWO WRs over 1000 or nearly over 1000. Probably less than half the league. And one of the guys only played 13 games. So what does that tell you?

I most definitely agree with you PHP......I just don't see what they are talking about. It honestly wouldn't have taken much and we very realistically could have had 2 WRs and 1 TE with over 1000 EACH. Plus another 500 from CP. For all those calling for a J Jones type just look at their (Falcons) stats.....Jones had 1409 and their number 2 had 653. Hmmmm
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

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Pondering Her Percy wrote:I'm really starting to question where everyone is coming up with "crappy WR play"?? We had two WRs near 1000 yards. Diggs would have hit it if he didnt get hurt. Plus we had a TE near 1000. Just because we don't have a Deandre Hopkins on this team doesnt mean we have bad WRs or need to find a guy like that. Diggs, Thielen, Patterson and Treadwell waiting is a good receiving core. Everyone is worried about being like everybody else and having some elite WR. We have 2 WRs on our roster that are probably better than any WR on the Patriots. They don't have a true #1. Granted they have Brady but point being, you don't need some stud #1 to have a good WR group. We don't even know what we have in Treadwell.

And Adam Thielen is not better than Stefon Diggs. Thielen had 60 more yards than Diggs and also played 3 more games than Diggs did. Plus Diggs was banged up in a lot of the games he played. Yes his health is a concern. But overall, none of these guys are the reason our offense wasnt performing. This is the best WR group we have had in a long time AND you have a first round pick you have waiting in the wings. Just because we don't have Julio Jones on our team like you and Demi think we need doesnt mean we don't have a good WR core. How many teams this year had TWO WRs over 1000 or nearly over 1000. Probably less than half the league. And one of the guys only played 13 games. So what does that tell you?
I'm questioning the "crappy WR play," too. It doesn't show itself in the stats or on film. There is no current need in the WR corps.

OTOH, the Vikings have gaping OL needs, which clearly outweigh any other offensive concerns by miles. Every defensive coordinator in the NFL knows the Vikings offensive line can't win the battle in the trenches. So it's not rocket science.

If the Vikings go WR shopping in the FA or draft over acquiring OL help, then I hope Ziggy fires the entire coaching and front office staff (including our GM).
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by Mothman »

losperros wrote:I'm questioning the "crappy WR play," too. It doesn't show itself in the stats or on film. There is no current need in the WR corps.

OTOH, the Vikings have gaping OL needs, which clearly outweigh any other offensive concerns by miles. Every defensive coordinator in the NFL knows the Vikings offensive line can't win the battle in the trenches. So it's not rocket science.

If the Vikings go WR shopping in the FA or draft over acquiring OL help, then I hope Ziggy fires the entire coaching and front office staff (including our GM).
They definitely can't afford to prioritize WR (or any other position) over improving the offensive line this offseason. They have to get better up front, not just in pass protection but to get their running game back to respectability.

That said, with Thielen a restricted free agent and Patterson and Johnson both free agents, they'll have some decisions to make at WR. If they elect not to re-sign (or can't re-sign) any of those players, they'll have to bring in somebody to replace them. Frankly, I think they need to move on from Johnson.

I don't think the WR play has been bad but it hasn't been outstanding either. They could certainly use a bigger difference-maker at the position. What they might need most of all is a red zone threat because outside of Rudolph, nobody else in the passing game has really established themselves in that department. If Treadwell's going to step up in 2017, it would be nice to see him do it in that area.
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Re: Vikings Grades: Wide receiver

Post by VikingLord »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I'm really starting to question where everyone is coming up with "crappy WR play"?? We had two WRs near 1000 yards. Diggs would have hit it if he didnt get hurt. Plus we had a TE near 1000. Just because we don't have a Deandre Hopkins on this team doesnt mean we have bad WRs or need to find a guy like that. Diggs, Thielen, Patterson and Treadwell waiting is a good receiving core. Everyone is worried about being like everybody else and having some elite WR. We have 2 WRs on our roster that are probably better than any WR on the Patriots. They don't have a true #1. Granted they have Brady but point being, you don't need some stud #1 to have a good WR group. We don't even know what we have in Treadwell.
"Crappy" was the wrong word... How about "average"? I think I acknowledged the 3 receivers you mentioned - Diggs, Thielen and Rudolph. All of them are solid receivers. I'm not sure I'd put too much stock in Treadwell making an impact. He certainly could get it figured out next year, but he could just as easily be a huge bust in waiting as he is a breakout player in waiting.
Pondering Her Percy wrote: And Adam Thielen is not better than Stefon Diggs. Thielen had 60 more yards than Diggs and also played 3 more games than Diggs did. Plus Diggs was banged up in a lot of the games he played. Yes his health is a concern. But overall, none of these guys are the reason our offense wasnt performing. This is the best WR group we have had in a long time AND you have a first round pick you have waiting in the wings. Just because we don't have Julio Jones on our team like you and Demi think we need doesnt mean we don't have a good WR core. How many teams this year had TWO WRs over 1000 or nearly over 1000. Probably less than half the league. And one of the guys only played 13 games. So what does that tell you?
I wish games were won on yardage gained by receivers?

In all seriousness, relative to some of the other question marks on offense, receiver is not as large a concern as the OL or RB. It's less of a concern if Treadwell emerges and becomes the player I think they envisioned when he was drafted. It's less of a concern if they extend Patterson and he continues his upward arc. It's less of a concern if Wright resolves whatever kept him off the field this year and resumes his pre-extension level of play. But since none of those things are certain, it's still a concern.
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