Interview that nearly ended Zimmer’s head-coaching dream

[J. Kapp 11]

No, he's not and he shouldn't be fired. That wasn't the point of this thread so I hope that's not what people are taking away from it.

I don't know what the future holds for Zimmer. I posted this article again because I think it's worth looking back at the anecdote I quoted and it's worth considering the attitude Zimmer apparently displayed in interviews, an attitude that prevented him from getting a number of head coaching jobs over the years. I think it provides insight into what's gone wrong thus far under Zimmer. When asked how he would run a team and build his staff, he kept saying "he'd figure it out" and it looks to me like that's the level of vision he brought to Minnesota. He came in as a defensive coordinator and he's basically coached the team like one, developing and coaching the defense with confidence and showing little, if any, real vision for the offense beyond riding on Adrian Peterson's back. That lack of vision has been costly.

I think his vision, if you will, was his commitment to bringing in quality assistants. Having been one himself, I think he understood the importance of surrounding himself with great people. There's wisdom in that ... but at the same time, he has to be accountable.

Unfortunately, in his effort to hire quality assistants, he brought on Norv Turner, whose reputation seems to have been a few years past its expiration date. Their first move was to draft Teddy ... not bashing Teddy, but he wasn't the right guy to run Norv's system. Blame Zimmer if you wish, but I put that more on Spielman and Turner. Zimmer trusted those guys to make the right decision, and for Norv's brand of football, it was a miss. Derek Carr would have been a much better pick. Not only that, he was available (which to this day still makes my stomach ache).

It's time for him to "figure it out" or eventually, he really will need to be replaced.

As much as it pains me to say it, I have to agree. In the modern NFL, you can't win with only a grind-it-out rushing attack and a strong defense. There comes a time when your team needs to be able to score in a hurry, and this team just isn't capable. That being said, I DO like the way Bradford throws the deep ball on those rare occasions when he has the time. He's extremely accurate down the field, so if we can ever come up with a competent O-line, there's hope. Big if, I know.

But back to Zimmer, at some point he's got to realize that scoring is just as important as keeping the other team from scoring. Even though he's a defensive guy, he is the head coach ... so if he doesn't put some personal emphasis on the offense, it will not get fixed. My opinion is that he should stop calling defensive plays. Maybe that would free him up to pay more attention to the offense and make them more accountable.

As an aside, you mixed up a couple of seasons above. Mike Zimmer didn't inherit a 3-13 team.

Oops. I swapped 2011 and 2013 (although 5-10-1 is nothing to write home about).

[Mothman]

I think his vision, if you will, was his commitment to bringing in quality assistants. Having been one himself, I think he understood the importance of surrounding himself with great people. There's wisdom in that ... but at the same time, he has to be accountable.

Unfortunately, in his effort to hire quality assistants, he brought on Norv Turner, whose reputation seems to have been a few years past its expiration date. Their first move was to draft Teddy ... not bashing Teddy, but he wasn't the right guy to run Norv's system. Blame Zimmer if you wish, but I put that more on Spielman and Turner. Zimmer trusted those guys to make the right decision, and for Norv's brand of football, it was a miss. Derek Carr would have been a much better pick. Not only that, he was available (which to this day still makes my stomach ache).

That pains me too, especially because I was advocating for Carr here on the board.

I think you're right that Zimmer was putting his trust in Spielman and Turner but I think his mistake may have been in over-delegating responsibility for the offense. I think a head coach needs to have a vision for the whole team and be able to articulate that to the GM and his assistants. Maybe Zimmer actually did that and it just didn't work out. As you said, there's wisdom in surrounding yourself with great people but Zimmer still has to be held accountable for the way things have played out, good and bad.

But back to Zimmer, at some point he's got to realize that scoring is just as important as keeping the other team from scoring. Even though he's a defensive guy, he is the head coach ... so if he doesn't put some personal emphasis on the offense, it will not get fixed. My opinion is that he should stop calling defensive plays. Maybe that would free him up to pay more attention to the offense and make them more accountable.

Well said and I agree with you that giving up the defensive playcalling would be a good place to start.

[Holzberg]

Turner quitting shows that the coaches are not all on the same page. Especially when Zim says he thought they were friends and didn't expect him to quit and then Zim didn't try to convince him to stay. Zim and Turner obviously had different visions for the team. I don't have respect for Zim anymore, but I know he will be around for one more year. Now that Turner is gone, Zim should be able to apply his vision and we will see how that works out in 2017.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Turner quitting shows that the coaches are not all on the same page. Especially when Zim says he thought they were friends and didn't expect him to quit and then Zim didn't try to convince him to stay. Zim and Turner obviously had different visions for the team. I don't have respect for Zim anymore, but I know he will be around for one more year. Now that Turner is gone, Zim should be able to apply his vision and we will see how that works out in 2017.

I have no idea why you wouldnt have respect for a guy like Mike Zimmer anymore. As for him and Turner, I've said this in another thread. Norv told the media they had different views regarding the offense. I will tell you right now what those were. Zim noticed we need to get out from the "under-center 7 step drop" approach because Bradford was getting killed and Turner didnt want to do it. You could tell the difference in game one of having Shurmur calling plays. We had to modify this offense completely to keep Bradford upright. Zim saw that. Norv didnt. So if anyone, Norv was the one being a pain in the a** regarding this offense.

But to say you dont have respect anymore for arguably one of the most respected coaches in all the NFL baffles my mind. Especially if its over the Turner ordeal. That's all laid out for you above.

[Holzberg]

I have no idea why you wouldnt have respect for a guy like Mike Zimmer anymore. As for him and Turner, I've said this in another thread. Norv told the media they had different views regarding the offense. I will tell you right now what those were. Zim noticed we need to get out from the "under-center 7 step drop" approach because Bradford was getting killed and Turner didnt want to do it. You could tell the difference in game one of having Shurmur calling plays. We had to modify this offense completely to keep Bradford upright. Zim saw that. Norv didnt. So if anyone, Norv was the one being a pain in the a** regarding this offense.

But to say you dont have respect anymore for arguably one of the most respected coaches in all the NFL baffles my mind. Especially if its over the Turner ordeal. That's all laid out for you above.

I don't have respect for Zim because after the FUBAR'd game vs the Colts, he called out the players for not playing hard and never took responsibility himself. He didn't look like he wanted to win either... he didn't make any adjustments to get pressure and he showed no emotion just like the players. I have lost respect for him now and we will see if he can gain that back... not that he gives two #### that I have no respect and I know that Zim has taken responsibility in the past, but this time took none after the worst game many of us have seen in a long time.

You say Zim is respected by the league, but it doesn't look like his players respect him after this past weekend and after his press conference I can understand why.

I think the big telling will be the Packer game... Will Zim show up to win and will the players fight for him?

PS. It's not if they win... it's how hard they try to do so.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I don't have respect for Zim because after the FUBAR'd game vs the Colts, he called out the players for not playing hard and never took responsibility himself. He didn't look like he wanted to win either... he didn't make any adjustments to get pressure and he showed no emotion just like the players. I have lost respect for him now and we will see if he can gain that back... not that he gives two #### that I have no respect and I know that Zim has taken responsibility in the past, but this time took none after the worst game many of us have seen in a long time.

You say Zim is respected by the league, but it doesn't look like his players respect him after this past weekend and after his press conference I can understand why.

I think the big telling will be the Packer game... Will Zim show up to win and will the players fight for him?

PS. It's not if they win... it's how hard they try to do so.

LITERALLY just about every player thats ever played for Mike Zimmer and has been asked about Mike Zimmer has given the guy nothing but high praise. Now because we got smoked 1 game the players dont have respect for him?? Where is that even coming from? Did you talk to guys on the team or something?? We got smoked last year and looked lethargic against Seattle and I didnt see guys losing respect for him.

And go back and watch his last two press conferences. He came out and said he thinks he could be "over-coaching" the defense. Thats taking RESPONSIBILITY. No less how many times has Mike Zimmer or any other coach for that matter been asked about a slumping players and the coaches response isnt something along the lines of "he needs to play better". If that's considered "bashing your players" then it truly shows how soft society has gotten.

He took some responsibility, said his guys need to play better and that they look lethargic. When any other team in the NFL gets blown out, that is usually the norm response for every coach.

This is pretty pathetic that Mike Zimmer's team gets blown out one time all season and now guys are saying "fire him", "he should be given one more year max", "he's too stubborn", "his players dont respect him anymore", "I have no respect for him anymore", etc. Are you kidding me?

Leslie Frazier cost us way more games than Mike Zimmer ever will and somehow guys stood behind him. Why? Because he didnt hurt anyones feelings and was a nice guy? Well he was a pis* poor coach I'll tell you that. It's amazing how quick fans praise a guy so much 10 weeks ago and how quick they turn their back on him when things arent going your way. Disgusts me.

[Pondering Her Percy]

“I think we all knew what kind of guy Zim is,” linebacker Chad Greenway said. “But I think what he’s done with his eye just upholds everybody’s thought of him. His priority is this team, even sometimes at the expense of his own regard.”

But yeah....his players dont respect him

[Holzberg]

LITERALLY just about every player thats ever played for Mike Zimmer and has been asked about Mike Zimmer has given the guy nothing but high praise. Now because we got smoked 1 game the players dont have respect for him?? Where is that even coming from? Did you talk to guys on the team or something?? We got smoked last year and looked lethargic against Seattle and I didnt see guys losing respect for him.

And go back and watch his last two press conferences. He came out and said he thinks he could be "over-coaching" the defense. Thats taking RESPONSIBILITY. No less how many times has Mike Zimmer or any other coach for that matter been asked about a slumping players and the coaches response isnt something along the lines of "he needs to play better". If that's considered "bashing your players" then it truly shows how soft society has gotten.

He took some responsibility, said his guys need to play better and that they look lethargic. When any other team in the NFL gets blown out, that is usually the norm response for every coach.

This is pretty pathetic that Mike Zimmer's team gets blown out one time all season and now guys are saying "fire him", "he should be given one more year max", "he's too stubborn", "his players dont respect him anymore", "I have no respect for him anymore", etc. Are you kidding me?

Leslie Frazier cost us way more games than Mike Zimmer ever will and somehow guys stood behind him. Why? Because he didnt hurt anyones feelings and was a nice guy? Well he was a pis* poor coach I'll tell you that. It's amazing how quick fans praise a guy so much 10 weeks ago and how quick they turn their back on him when things arent going your way. Disgusts me.

First off... I never said his players don't respect him... I said that conference won't help when he took no responsibility until days later. Although, this past game didn't show they do.

Second... Zimmer didn't say anyone needs to play harder... he said that if the players don't play harder they will be out. My point is that if he can say that about the players than it should also apply to himself... he had no emotion and made no adjustments to spark the team. Like I said, if the coaches don't give a crap then why would the players.

Third... I am new here and I have never jumped on the Zimmer/Turner bandwagon like you. I had hopes and this year started out promising, but I still thankfully didn't jump.

Fourth... It wasn't just this game that Zimmer and Co. have blown. Yes he took responsibility for his mistakes with clock management, but there's more too it. In close games the defense folds and has allowed teams to walk down the field and take games away. Every week the defense has gotten worse and worse and the Colts game was the bust.

Zimmer has been unable to get all three phases to play at least at an average level. Then all we hear about is injuries. The offense never was that great to begin with this year and definitely was the Achilles heal of this team. This was known last year and still nothing was done about it. Everyone was just hoping that the offense would be good enough to score some points and our defense would carry us the rest of the way. Like I said before, even the defense has declined week after week. The defense has had some injuries, but no more than any other team out there and none have faltered more.

Zimmer has made our defense much better, but the other phases have suffered so much in doing so that they can barely function. That seems to be all everyone can talk about is how great the defense is... I mean was. So until he proves he can control the entire team I don't understand why so many people have their head up his arse. So many successfully assistants have tried to be HC, failed and went back to an assistant or no longer coach.

I know Zimmer will be here next year so hopefully he will finally figure things out... but we can't continue beyond that just because he fixed the defense

[Pondering Her Percy]

First off... I never said his players don't respect him... I said that conference won't help when he took no responsibility until days later. Although, this past game didn't show they do.

Uh it was the next day when he said it. He went back, evaluated the tape and took responsiblity. I think you're blowing this out of proportion. You are completely misunderstanding the word respect. Do you know how many teams across the league have bad weeks every now and then?? We have one and it showed we didnt "respect" our coach. What? Guess we didnt "respect" Zimmer when we got beat 38-7 to Seattle last year either

Second... Zimmer didn't say anyone needs to play harder... he said that if the players don't play harder they will be out. My point is that if he can say that about the players than it should also apply to himself... he had no emotion and made no adjustments to spark the team. Like I said, if the coaches don't give a crap then why would the players.

He said he's looking for guys that want to "fight". Which is essentially wanting them to play harder. You think he doesnt realize that if he doesnt do well over the next however long that he could be fired? He's not an idiot. However, why does he need to come out and admit that to the media? You hardly ever hear coaches say anything like that.

Like I said, you're making a big fuss over this. "If the coaches dont give a crap why would the players"?????? What are you judging that by?? Because you didnt like Mike Zimmers "tone" in the presser? The guys team just got beat by 100 and now he has to go answer the medias idiotic questions. Is he suppose to sit there with a smile on his face and say everything is all sunshine and rainbows?

I am a varsity lacrosse and football coach. Every year during my beginning of the year parent meeting I make sure to give it to them in writing and verbally say it and that is "DO NOT approach me after a game to question your kids playing time or my coaching". If they want to talk to me, they can call and set up a meeting. The last thing a coach wants to do, especially after a bad loss is sit there and answer everyones questions and complaining. If you didnt like his "tone" then so be it. But you're looking way too much into this.

Third... I am new here and I have never jumped on the Zimmer/Turner bandwagon like you. I had hopes and this year started out promising, but I still thankfully didn't jump.

I never "jumped on the Zimmer/Turner bandwagon". Especially Turner. As for Zimmer, I do love the guy and think he's an excellent coach. He has a very similar old school style like I do and doesnt sugar coat anything. He learned from his father just like I did. He demands respect out of his players just like I do and RECEIVES it.

Fourth... It wasn't just this game that Zimmer and Co. have blown. Yes he took responsibility for his mistakes with clock management, but there's more too it. In close games the defense folds and has allowed teams to walk down the field and take games away. Every week the defense has gotten worse and worse and the Colts game was the bust.

Zimmer has been unable to get all three phases to play at least at an average level. Then all we hear about is injuries. The offense never was that great to begin with this year and definitely was the Achilles heal of this team. This was known last year and still nothing was done about it. Everyone was just hoping that the offense would be good enough to score some points and our defense would carry us the rest of the way. Like I said before, even the defense has declined week after week. The defense has had some injuries, but no more than any other team out there and none have faltered more.

Zimmer has made our defense much better, but the other phases have suffered so much in doing so that they can barely function. That seems to be all everyone can talk about is how great the defense is... I mean was. So until he proves he can control the entire team I don't understand why so many people have their head up his arse. So many successfully assistants have tried to be HC, failed and went back to an assistant or no longer coach.

I know Zimmer will be here next year so hopefully he will finally figure things out... but we can't continue beyond that just because he fixed the defense

False. The defense has not gotten worse week by week. Last time I checked, only a week or two ago we held the #1 offense in the league to next to nothing. I'm guessing your forgot about that one. We did nothing about the offense? I mean we did spend most of our FA money and our first round pick on offensive players. But you're going to sit there and say he's not trying to do anything about the offense.

These injuries are no excuse. You just seem like someone that has your blinders on when it comes to them. Another over the top frustrated fan that wants to point at everything but the injuries. I'm not saying that is the ONLY reason. But it sure is a HUGE part of our lack of success. No matter what side of the fence you are on

[IrishViking]

25-21 head coach without a playoff win who has had a terrible offense his entire tenure, 2 years NOT due to prolific injuries. sold the farm for a staggering amount of focus to be given to the defense for them to frequently not show up (both detroit games, Colts, Bears, that's already too many games for the on paper pedigree of this team)

What exactly, beyond turning around a defense, that, lets be honest, you could have thrown nearly anything at it and it would have improved somewhat, has he accomplished? End of his 3rd year and barely above .500 as a coach? We are basically at the end of the lets see what sort of coach he is. 3 years is a system, a pattern, etc.

He isn't BAD. But damn, some folks on here defend him like he is Belichick or the second coming of Lombardi. He hasn't accomplished ANYTHING in 3 years besides a barely over .500 record and a 1 and done playoff loss. WHERE is the massive confidence in his "system" coming from?

[S197]

25-21 head coach without a playoff win who has had a terrible offense his entire tenure, 2 years NOT due to prolific injuries. sold the farm for a staggering amount of focus to be given to the defense for them to frequently not show up (both detroit games, Colts, Bears, that's already too many games for the on paper pedigree of this team)

What exactly, beyond turning around a defense, that, lets be honest, you could have thrown nearly anything at it and it would have improved somewhat, has he accomplished? End of his 3rd year and barely above .500 as a coach? We are basically at the end of the lets see what sort of coach he is. 3 years is a system, a pattern, etc.

He isn't BAD. But damn, some folks on here defend him like he is Belichick or the second coming of Lombardi. He hasn't accomplished ANYTHING in 3 years besides a barely over .500 record and a 1 and done playoff loss. WHERE is the massive confidence in his "system" coming from?

He inherited a 5-10-1 team so that needs to be kept in perspective. This team won 11 games last year, that's pretty impressive for a second year coach. This year has been rough but when you lose your QB, Offensive Hall of Famer, and your entire offensive line, I mean, there's only so much you can do. Think about that for a second, no one on the O-line has played every game this year. Everyone has been hurt. That's pretty extraordinary. So is Teddy's fluke dislocation on a non-contact drop back.

So going by numbers alone it's not great (but honestly not bad). Belichick was 20-28 in his first 3 years. The year before he won the SB the Patriots were 5-11.

I have confidence because I look at last year's team and this year's team. What's really the difference between the two? Injuries. If they can solidify the line and find a kicker that doesn't shank chip shots, I think the future looks pretty good.

[Pondering Her Percy]

25-21 head coach without a playoff win who has had a terrible offense his entire tenure, 2 years NOT due to prolific injuries. sold the farm for a staggering amount of focus to be given to the defense for them to frequently not show up (both detroit games, Colts, Bears, that's already too many games for the on paper pedigree of this team)

What exactly, beyond turning around a defense, that, lets be honest, you could have thrown nearly anything at it and it would have improved somewhat, has he accomplished? End of his 3rd year and barely above .500 as a coach? We are basically at the end of the lets see what sort of coach he is. 3 years is a system, a pattern, etc.

He isn't BAD. But damn, some folks on here defend him like he is Belichick or the second coming of Lombardi. He hasn't accomplished ANYTHING in 3 years besides a barely over .500 record and a 1 and done playoff loss. WHERE is the massive confidence in his "system" coming from?

1 and done playoff loss is easy to say but we all know the real reason that ended. Nobody on here is defending him like he's Belichick or Lombardi. Thats just you over exaggerating. I just said above that I love his coaching style and demeanor. He's a very highly regarded coach.

Once again though, you're missing my point from before. Do you truly believe this team is a 7-7 team if those injuries dont happen?? Honestly sit there and answer that question. If you tell me yes, they would be the same team I would tell you you are dead wrong. But now since injuries hit so bad that nearly zero teams in the NFL could overcome, he's just some below average coach or whatever you even consider him to be?? I dont buy it. He didnt have the greatest offense last year and still led this team to an 11-5 record. Whats your next complaint, that the 11-5 record was luck?? Because I can tell you that these injuries were a whole lot of bad luck.

Bottom line is I have confidence in the guy. I like his approach to the game and his demeanor. You might not but oh well. No matter what you say it wont change my opinion on him. If he fails and gets fired, I'll be the first to eat crow. If not, I'll be the first to say I told you so.

[IrishViking]

He inherited a 5-10-1 team so that needs to be kept in perspective. This team won 11 games last year, that's pretty impressive for a second year coach. This year has been rough but when you lose your QB, Offensive Hall of Famer, and your entire offensive line, I mean, there's only so much you can do. Think about that for a second, no one on the O-line has played every game this year. Everyone has been hurt. That's pretty extraordinary. So is Teddy's fluke dislocation on a non-contact drop back.

So going by numbers alone it's not great (but honestly not bad). Belichick was 20-28 in his first 3 years. The year before he won the SB the Patriots were 5-11.

I have confidence because I look at last year's team and this year's team. What's really the difference between the two? Injuries. If they can solidify the line and find a kicker that doesn't shank chip shots, I think the future looks pretty good.

I guess I see a coach who has never and still doesn't have a plan for the offense and seems to be growing more and more sour as he realizes he actually has to be involved in the offensive decisions. I also worry because to me, as easy as it is to attribute this year to injuries last year could have been a "flash in the pan" He has a good year bookend by two bad years. Yeah injuries I understand but Sparano hasn't seemed to work out great, a lot of folks have pointed out fundamental issues with the Olines "tactics" beyond just being bad or green. And our OC left halfway through the year and the more it is talked about the more it seems to be that it wasn't just Norv feeling old. He fundamentally disagreed with the offensive vision and lets be honest. Its not like Norv leaving lifted the "malaise" on the offense. still the same puttering hot mess.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I guess I see a coach who has never and still doesn't have a plan for the offense and seems to be growing more and more sour as he realizes he actually has to be involved in the offensive decisions. I also worry because to me, as easy as it is to attribute this year to injuries last year could have been a "flash in the pan" He has a good year bookend by two bad years. Yeah injuries I understand but Sparano hasn't seemed to work out great, a lot of folks have pointed out fundamental issues with the Olines "tactics" beyond just being bad or green. And our OC left halfway through the year and the more it is talked about the more it seems to be that it wasn't just Norv feeling old. He fundamentally disagreed with the offensive vision and lets be honest. Its not like Norv leaving lifted the "malaise" on the offense. still the same puttering hot mess.

Seems to be "growing more sour"? Not even sure where you get that assumption from. Are you really going to consider his FIRST season at 7-9 a bad year? He took over a bad team that had a complete change in offensive and defensive scheme and was quartbackless practically. We improved from 2013 to 2014 and then improved even more the following year. All I know is, within it two years, he led us to a division title. Something we havent done since '09. If that is considered bad coaching, I sure dont know what good coaching is then I guess.

He "fundamentally disagreed with the offensive vision"?? Your damn right he did. If you were the HEAD COACH would you sit there and continue to watch 7 step drops under center when you have a horrid OL??? And be completely fine with that? Or continuous play action to Matt Asiata (gross) from under center. Matt Asiata isnt scaring anyone. If your answer to that is yes, then I must say you would be a horrible head coach. Because everyone saw it and Norv didnt want to budge. If Zimmer doesnt address that, Sam Bradford could have very well been out for the season by this point. We'd be onto Shaun Hill, who very well woudlve been done by then as well. We very well could've been quarterbackless at some point if that continued. It was more about keeping our QB upright than anything and that wasnt happening under Norv when Kalil and Smith went down. It would be even worse now.

But clearly you are on the "I dont like Mike Zimmer no matter what anyone says" bandwagon so I'm not sure where we're going with all this because I dont see you hopping off anytime soon

[S197]

I guess I see a coach who has never and still doesn't have a plan for the offense and seems to be growing more and more sour as he realizes he actually has to be involved in the offensive decisions. I also worry because to me, as easy as it is to attribute this year to injuries last year could have been a "flash in the pan" He has a good year bookend by two bad years. Yeah injuries I understand but Sparano hasn't seemed to work out great, a lot of folks have pointed out fundamental issues with the Olines "tactics" beyond just being bad or green. And our OC left halfway through the year and the more it is talked about the more it seems to be that it wasn't just Norv feeling old. He fundamentally disagreed with the offensive vision and lets be honest. Its not like Norv leaving lifted the "malaise" on the offense. still the same puttering hot mess.

That's a valid concern. We've seen a good amount of guys in the league who are great coordinators but can't make the next leap up. I think there will be some soul searching this offseason but I'm hoping Zimmer now has the experience and confidence to focus more on the offense.

I don't think last year was a fluke, I think we saw the cohesion of players who played like a team for a guy they had faith in. YMMV.