Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

IIsweet wrote:
You just proved what I have been preaching. We went in with a LT who has chronic knee issues, backup LT is a guy we signed off the streets, who again has been injury plagued his entire career. 3rd string is a project OT who played it for 1 year in college and shows very little feel for the position. You're right, we had Sullivan, but we're counting on a guy coming back from BACK SURGERIES to compete in the NFL on the interior of the OL and is supposed to handle 325 pound gargantuan's ??? C'mon Man!! Next, no idea about Harris who should have been a starter.
At RT you cannot think that a 6'8" 350 pound OL coming off an Achilles TEAR is going to be able to battle in the trenches a year after ripping apart his leg ???

So again I say, I see that Spielman is reactive. There was no proactive approach to providing a strong OL when we were only a rare missed 27 yard FG from a potential run to the NFCCG. If I was that close, I would have made sure that we improved our depth. We added Boone. Great job. Drafted Beavers, whose only significance is that it's fun saying his name in jokes. Hoped Fusco would return to form of years ago, but nope. Then, boom.... Injuries and this team cannot overcome them. Those backups with question marks then also had injuries.
I look forward to your response
Sullivan was the least of my concerns because that's probably where we had the most depth and that position is far from a problem. Losing Harris hurt us. We weren't relying on Fusco to return to form necessarily. We were going to let him compete with Harris. As for Loadholt, he's been the healthiest linemen we've had in forever and then went down the last two years. However it's not impossible for OTs to come back from an Achilles. It's happened to plenty of lineman. Either way you acted like we were only relying on one guy at these positions and that was not the case at all. There was competition all over. When Loadholt came back in training camp after having an entire year to recover nobody expected retirement. Bottom line is, there was competition. Whether you liked the players or not there was competition at just about every position. Could it have been better depth. Of course. Never denied that. But there WAS competition.

Hope you enjoyed my response
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

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Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Actually this was the least confrontational response that I've read of yours in some time. I much more enjoyed this than the others.
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

IIsweet wrote:Actually this was the least confrontational response that I've read of yours in some time. I much more enjoyed this than the others.
Gee thanks. I have seen many question his ability to draft for depth purposes over the years but as of late, he's brought in excellent depth for this defense. Maybe he's focused on defense a little more than the OL but either way, he went into this year with competition/depth on the OL depth on the defense. I dont think anyone saw this coming. Nobody really mentioned at the beginning of training camp that our tackle depth or guard depth was going to end us or whatever it maybe be. Many seemed awfully quiet about it because we had guys coming back from injury to provide more competition. Nor was anyone screaming OL OL OL in the draft thread. I guess it just kind of drives me nuts when fans say one thing back in march but then completely change their tone come now and blame Spielman for this and that.

EDIT: And I just went back to look at the Treadwell thread and everyone seem pleased, at least on the first few pages. Yet many complain about Rick and say he should have drafted OL.....weird. Easy to say now isnt it
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by chicagopurple »

I have been saying for 3 years that the OL is a neglected mess. Sully was done before this season started. His injury was NOT one that you come back from. Loadholt COULD have come back but it was very unlikely given bilateral ruptures of that sort. Kalil was, is, and always will be an epic failure and should never have been retained. It was all a very passive, ineffective, doomed approach by Spielman. He shoulders the blame. Teams are built on the Lines and ours has been poor to mediocre at best for quite a long time. Not Good Enough.....
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

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chicagopurple wrote:I have been saying for 3 years that the OL is a neglected mess. Sully was done before this season started. His injury was NOT one that you come back from. Loadholt COULD have come back but it was very unlikely given bilateral ruptures of that sort. Kalil was, is, and always will be an epic failure and should never have been retained. It was all a very passive, ineffective, doomed approach by Spielman. He shoulders the blame. Teams are built on the Lines and ours has been poor to mediocre at best for quite a long time. Not Good Enough.....
I pretty much agree. The only reason for optimism one could dig up for the OL approach this offseason was that some unknown youngster might rise to the top. Otherwise, it was clear this would be a terrible unit.
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

chicagopurple wrote:I have been saying for 3 years that the OL is a neglected mess. Sully was done before this season started. His injury was NOT one that you come back from. Loadholt COULD have come back but it was very unlikely given bilateral ruptures of that sort. Kalil was, is, and always will be an epic failure and should never have been retained. It was all a very passive, ineffective, doomed approach by Spielman. He shoulders the blame. Teams are built on the Lines and ours has been poor to mediocre at best for quite a long time. Not Good Enough.....
First of all, you say Sullivans injury is NOT one you come back from however he DID come back from it and is in Washington and healthy. Nobody expected Loadholts retirement. As for Kalil, look who we have there right now. Complain all you want about Kalil he is 30x better than what we have at LT now. No less it was probably our best bet to pick up his option because we had no other option at LT AND picked 23rd. So yes he should have been retained for 1 year. And probably should be retained again next year because both OTs are free agents and I would take Kalil over Smith
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

fiestavike wrote: I pretty much agree. The only reason for optimism one could dig up for the OL approach this offseason was that some unknown youngster might rise to the top. Otherwise, it was clear this would be a terrible unit.
False. Kalil, Boone, Berger, Harris and Smith is not a TERRIBLE line. Not the best in the world but definitely not "terrible". I would say middle of the road
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: False. Kalil, Boone, Berger, Harris and Smith is not a TERRIBLE line. Not the best in the world but definitely not "terrible". I would say middle of the road

This is about the only bone I will throw Spielmen relating to the Oline. On paper, coming into this year, we had what was probably going to be a middle of the road to even slightly decent line depending on Sparano.
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by S197 »

So looking forward, what would everyone like to see?

Do we bring Kalil back? Smith?

I think we're relatively okay at C. Berger is old but Easton seems like he can hold is own. Between the two, I think we have a starter and depth player. I think Boone is okay at LG. That leaves RG and the two tackles. I think at this point we have to assume Harris is not an option since we simply don't know what's going on. We can certainly find a good guard and likely a RT in rounds 2 or 3.

I'm thinking big splash in FA for a LT, with Kalil or Smith as depth. Draft a LG and RT. Clemmings/Beavers/Sirles will be backups.

Thoughts?
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

IrishViking wrote:

This is about the only bone I will throw Spielmen relating to the Oline. On paper, coming into this year, we had what was probably going to be a middle of the road to even slightly decent line depending on Sparano.
That has been my view all along and for some reason I cant get that message across. If that is our starting OL, it gives you Fusco as a swing guard who can play either spot. Easton has impressed me and could be a reason why we traded for him so the depth at center never really worried me. Tackle was a little more of an issue however we had Loadholt, Sirles and a 16 game starter in Clemmings. But yes on paper, it looked like a pretty decent OL.

I mean all in all, we lost Matt Kalil, Andre Smith, Mike Harris, Phil Loadholt and John Sullivan between the months of August to September. Those 5 guys together could make a solid OL and we lost every one of them. I'm not going to sit here and say the depth couldnt have been better because it could have and I'll fault Spielman for that but going into this year, we had some fairly solid offensive lineman on this roster
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by fiestavike »

S197 wrote:So looking forward, what would everyone like to see?

Do we bring Kalil back? Smith?

I think we're relatively okay at C. Berger is old but Easton seems like he can hold is own. Between the two, I think we have a starter and depth player. I think Boone is okay at LG. That leaves RG and the two tackles. I think at this point we have to assume Harris is not an option since we simply don't know what's going on. We can certainly find a good guard and likely a RT in rounds 2 or 3.

I'm thinking big splash in FA for a LT, with Kalil or Smith as depth. Draft a LG and RT. Clemmings/Beavers/Sirles will be backups.

Thoughts?
Kalil and Smith will be next years Sully and Loadholt. They are both done as NFL players. Sirles probably starts next year as RT. Clemmings needs to be jettisoned. They'll have no answer for LT but probably will overpay for another dud out of desperation. Probably NFC north cellar dwellars next year.
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by fiestavike »

IrishViking wrote:
This is about the only bone I will throw Spielmen relating to the Oline. On paper, coming into this year, we had what was probably going to be a middle of the road to even slightly decent line depending on Sparano.
So basically the crappy offensive line from last year with a new (old) tackle who hadn't been playing well for a couple years instead of Clemmings. Admittedly an upgrade, but by how much? It was really a terrible plan unless (and in hindsight we know they didn't) they had some reason to believe a young unknown like Sirles of Bykowski was ready to seize the job.
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

fiestavike wrote: Kalil and Smith will be next years Sully and Loadholt. They are both done as NFL players. Sirles probably starts next year as RT. Clemmings needs to be jettisoned. They'll have no answer for LT but probably will overpay for another dud out of desperation. Probably NFC north cellar dwellars next year.
Sounds like a great attitude if I've ever heard one :thumbsup: But out of everything in your post, the only thing I agree with is Clemmings being shipped off. Outside of that, the rest I 110% disagree
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

fiestavike wrote: So basically the crappy offensive line from last year with a new (old) tackle who hadn't been playing well for a couple years instead of Clemmings. Admittedly an upgrade, but by how much? It was really a terrible plan unless (and in hindsight we know they didn't) they had some reason to believe a young unknown like Sirles of Bykowski was ready to seize the job.
They had Smith, Loadholt and Clemmings competing for that spot. Not an awful plan when Clemmings is 3rd string
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Re: Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

Post by fiestavike »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Sounds like a great attitude if I've ever heard one :thumbsup: But out of everything in your post, the only thing I agree with is Clemmings being shipped off. Outside of that, the rest I 110% disagree
I will laugh when next year Kalil and Smith are injured and you are saying "if it weren't for the injuries, the vikings would have at least won 5 games this season!"
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