Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

[losperros]

I don't know if Spielman needs to go or not. Most of my dissatisfaction with the team comes from what I've seen as a wide range of mismanagement from more than solely Spielman. I'm including game day decisions, personnel choices and the overall offensive philosophy. If Spielman goes and all that somehow gets fixed, then yeah, he should leave.

[Texas Vike]

Fire Spielman when you're ready to revamp the coaching staff, I think. When you're ready to break the team down and start rebuilding is when you fire Spielman. To me, Zimmer was his "last chance". He put his stamp on everything about this team, at this point, from the coaches down. Many players on the team were drafted specifically for Zimmer's schemes that they both picked out.

I think he should see this coaching staff through until the end and if they can't have success he needs to go.

I agree with this.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think saying that he built a good defense simply because of Frazier and Zimmer is a pretty ignorant comment if you ask me.

What GM doesnt consult with their coach?? It's not like Spielman is just going to go pick some guy that doesnt fit the scheme or whatever it may be and not consult the coaches about it. So saying that makes no sense to me.

Guys want to bash him for "not building an OL" but wont give him credit for building an elite defense.

Everyone on here knows my position with him. I think he's a solid GM. He's done a pretty good job of bringing in talent from 2012 to now. He started a complete rebuild. Has he made his mistakes? Of course. Go name me a GM that hasnt.

I stated my position on building the OL in a previous thread. It wasnt as easy and everyone thinks given our draft position in recent years and the OL classes havent been very good at all. Many seem to be freaking out because of how the season is going, however, you can say what you want but not many teams can overcome the injuries that we have had on the offensive side of the ball.

Take Brady, Blount and both OTs off the Patriots
Take Dak, Zeke and both OTs off the Cowboys
Take Carr, Murray and both OTs off the Raiders

.....get my point now?? There is a difference between those teams and us and it's that they are healthy on offense and we are not. Simple as that.

We have nobody leaving on this defense next year which gives us the perfect opportunity to bring in OL and possibly a new RB. I have confidence that Spielman will find a way to do that

[Mothman]

Fire Spielman when you're ready to revamp the coaching staff, I think. When you're ready to break the team down and start rebuilding is when you fire Spielman. To me, Zimmer was his "last chance". He put his stamp on everything about this team, at this point, from the coaches down. Many players on the team were drafted specifically for Zimmer's schemes that they both picked out.

I think he should see this coaching staff through until the end and if they can't have success he needs to go.

That's a legitimate way to look at it and it's entirely possible that replacing the GM would mean replacing the head coach. That would be up to the new GM.

I carefully considered this issue before reaching my conclusion about how the Vikes should proceed but in the end, I think waiting is postponing the inevitable because I believe Spielman does almost as much to undermine the team's chances of success as he does to help them. A new GM would have the option to keep Zimmer or find a coach who could also use the defensive talent effectively.

[mansquatch]

I think saying that he built a good defense simply because of Frazier and Zimmer is a pretty ignorant comment if you ask me.

What GM doesnt consult with their coach?? It's not like Spielman is just going to go pick some guy that doesnt fit the scheme or whatever it may be and not consult the coaches about it. So saying that makes no sense to me.

Guys want to bash him for "not building an OL" but wont give him credit for building an elite defense.

Everyone on here knows my position with him. I think he's a solid GM. He's done a pretty good job of bringing in talent from 2012 to now. He started a complete rebuild. Has he made his mistakes? Of course. Go name me a GM that hasnt.

I stated my position on building the OL in a previous thread. It wasnt as easy and everyone thinks given our draft position in recent years and the OL classes havent been very good at all. Many seem to be freaking out because of how the season is going, however, you can say what you want but not many teams can overcome the injuries that we have had on the offensive side of the ball.

Take Brady, Blount and both OTs off the Patriots
Take Dak, Zeke and both OTs off the Cowboys
Take Carr, Murray and both OTs off the Raiders

.....get my point now?? There is a difference between those teams and us and it's that they are healthy on offense and we are not. Simple as that.

We have nobody leaving on this defense next year which gives us the perfect opportunity to bring in OL and possibly a new RB. I have confidence that Spielman will find a way to do that

This is my position exactly. 5 starters on offense on IR by week 6 the Offense sucks. Why are people surprised? Sometimes it feels like Spielman is getting bashed because he couldn't go 5 deep at OT and be competitive with back up RBs getting the ball.

Offense is painful to watch right now, but I do not see a team in the league who would be competitive on offense with the injuries we've sustained. The only thing that sucks is QB went down first and we traded our 1st to try and save a promising season. Good news is the OL injuries will likely save as an immense amount of cap space if we resign some of these guys.

[chicagopurple]

Guys....the so called "starters" on the OL were crappy to start with. Spielman had Kalil for years and refused to admit he was a failure. He had Sully with a bad back and pretended that he would be a starter again. He drafted Clemmings ( ), and continued to pin hopes on the likes of Fusco. The problem is NOT that these guys got injured. Even if they were healthy, they are poor choices. And these were his best effort at starters? It was never going to work if your goal is a Super Bowl. If your goal is doing just enough to fill a shiny new stadium with a bunch of thirsty chumps then , yeah, I guess he is the right man for the job.

[Mothman]

This is my position exactly. 5 starters on offense on IR by week 6 the Offense sucks. Why are people surprised? Sometimes it feels like Spielman is getting bashed because he couldn't go 5 deep at OT and be competitive with back up RBs getting the ball.

So people keep saying and it might feel that way at times but that's not an accurate description of the actual argument against keeping Spielman. It's not just about this season either, a point that's been made clear many times, yet never seems to sink in.

[IIsweet]

The question that matters is this...

Can we win a Super Bowl with him as GM ?
Since being the GM are we A Lot better than we were ?
Do we have the personnel to win a SB ?

Can we win a SB with Zimmer as the Head Coach ?

Do we have the coaching staff to win a SB ?

If any of these are answered as "NO"! Then we must find someone that will. Cannot be satisfied with a competitive team. The end result is the only one that matters in this league. We have a beautiful new stadium and an owner that wants to win ? I think ??

[chicagopurple]

Exactly! The only thing that matters is how close is a person getting you to the top. We have done nothing but spun our wheels since the short period with Favre. We are no where near the organzational structure of the teams that are consistent winners then we were 10 yrs ago. Our scouting and development staff havent shown any improvement. We arent developing good WRs, QBs, OL....the only real improvement has been limited to Defense (the head coaches main focus) and special teams. That is not sufficient.

[mosscarter]

some of the first round misfires are alarming. look at what we gave up for patterson and he will most likely be gone next year. and treadwell doesn't even look like he belongs in the nfl (at least not now). we will never see another receiver like moss, but what did he do his rookie year? usually a first round receiver pick will show some signs of potential if they have any. treadwell has 1 freaking catch are you kidding me? it looks like it was a horrible pick simply made because "we needed a receiver." as far as bradford goes, how can anyone really judge him based on this line? with our luck teddy will come back next year and we'll have a qb controversy (of which i think teddy would win as someone noted above just because he is a "good guy."). this team is a mess i don't care who is in charge. this offense will take years to turn around, and with AP likely gone who will run the ball? it's like jim mora when he coached the saints, "we can't run the ball, we can't pass the ball. we suck."

[Cliff]

That's a legitimate way to look at it and it's entirely possible that replacing the GM would mean replacing the head coach. That would be up to the new GM.

I carefully considered this issue before reaching my conclusion about how the Vikes should proceed but in the end, I think waiting is postponing the inevitable because I believe Spielman does almost as much to undermine the team's chances of success as he does to help them. A new GM would have the option to keep Zimmer or find a coach who could also use the defensive talent effectively.

I think they both would need to go at the same time. I think it's clear that they're both responsible for the ideology and player acquisitions (draft as well as FA) that has shaped this team over the last couple of years. It doesn't make sense to me to dump one and not the other at this point to me.

[Mothman]

I think they both would need to go at the same time. I think it's clear that they're both responsible for the ideology and player acquisitions (draft as well as FA) that has shaped this team over the last couple of years. It doesn't make sense to me to dump one and not the other at this point to me.

That's usually what ends up happening and a new GM would probably want to hire a new HC.

Basically, what I was trying to say is I don't think they should hold off on making a change at GM just because of Zimmer. I can imagine a scenario in which a new GM might think he was worth keeping as the head coach.

I doubt either the HC or GM is going anywhere after this season so this is really just an exercise in expressing our opinions anyway.

[losperros]

I carefully considered this issue before reaching my conclusion about how the Vikes should proceed but in the end, I think waiting is postponing the inevitable because I believe Spielman does almost as much to undermine the team's chances of success as he does to help them. A new GM would have the option to keep Zimmer or find a coach who could also use the defensive talent effectively.

You have to wonder if a new GM would butt heads with Mike Zimmer, should he keep Zimmer around. Personally, I'd like to see Zimmer get at least a couple more years to see what he can do. Does that mean Spielman stays?

Thing is, Jim, I keep wondering if the offensive struggles are due to a lack of foresight by Spielman or because a defensive-minded head coach thought a game manager QB, running game, and a small ball offense would work with a great defense. I don't know. Maybe I'm over-complicating the issue.

[chicagopurple]

I dont believe that Zimmer was the driving force behind our trades and drafts the last 2 yrs. He is very much a company man ad wouldnt publicly criticize the GM. I can only hold Spielman responsible. If a team is run properly the owner shuts up and lets the GM make the calls regarding drafts and deals. The GM chooses coaches, support staff, scouts etc. A new GM might very well prefer to keep Zim and see what he can do with some new reasonable talent.

[Pondering Her Percy]

some of the first round misfires are alarming. look at what we gave up for patterson and he will most likely be gone next year. and treadwell doesn't even look like he belongs in the nfl (at least not now). we will never see another receiver like moss, but what did he do his rookie year? usually a first round receiver pick will show some signs of potential if they have any. treadwell has 1 freaking catch are you kidding me? it looks like it was a horrible pick simply made because "we needed a receiver." as far as bradford goes, how can anyone really judge him based on this line? with our luck teddy will come back next year and we'll have a qb controversy (of which i think teddy would win as someone noted above just because he is a "good guy."). this team is a mess i don't care who is in charge. this offense will take years to turn around, and with AP likely gone who will run the ball? it's like jim mora when he coached the saints, "we can't run the ball, we can't pass the ball. we suck."

-Since 2012, he really hasnt had many "first round misfires" but ok? Patterson I guess you could say?? Floyd?? Although Floyd is good, just cant stay healthy and it was a good pick at the time IMO because we just had Kevin Williams leaving and had no DT depth

-See no reason why Patterson will be gone next year with how he's played this year but ok?

-We didn't draft Treadwell just because we "needed a WR". He was arguably the best WR in college football that year. It was a step to improve this offense. Clearly we didnt "need" a WR that much since he's not playing much. And to be honest, I am so unbelievably sick of hearing the over reactors on here saying "Treadwell is a bust". Everyone said the same thing about Waynes last year and now look. We had surprises this year like Thielen and Patterson so there was no reason to rush Treadwell into action. Give it a rest already.

-Also, you're falling under that category of over reactors. This team is a mess?? Is it?? Are you sure? Because last time I checked, we dont have any legitimate threat leaving on this defense next year so the whole defense is back. Offensively, I would say we need two things. Offensive line and a RB. Now if you've been paying attention to college football, you would know that this years RB class is unbelievably good and deep. Similar to the year of Gurley, Gordon, Johnson, Coleman, etc. Maybe even better. We ALSO have 2 third and fourth round picks along with our 2nd round pick. Yeah sucks we dont have a first but doubled up in two other rounds helps. This gives us plenty of opportunity to draft OL and a RB. AND if we cut AP that frees up boat loads of money that we could also use in FA. So no, I dont believe this offense will take "years" to rebuild. It will take 1-2 years if we play our cards right which of course is a big if. However, I am really not worried nor am I going to sit here and overreact.