Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
VikingPaul73
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3371
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:07 pm
x 141

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by VikingPaul73 »

thanks for the report!

Its seems as though the Vikings defense is a totally different defense with a 7+ point lead. I'm not sure what it is..... More confidence? More aggressive play calling by Zimmer? The opposing offense abandons the running game?
mosscarter
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by mosscarter »

i agree he probably does fit the stereotype, but the question remains, why not hire someone who is a really good offensive coordinator? i know its hard when you don't have a line, but has there really been a big difference between norv and shurmer? the offensive point output surely has not gone up leaps and bounds. we've honestly had a poor offense for a really long time now. it's kind of hard because we've had one thing after another happen as far as injuries and progress. teddy had a great preseason i never saw him throw like that, but by no means does that mean it would have carried over to the regular season. it's well documented how horribly i thought he played last year, but one has to wonder was much of that because of norv's conservative approach? bradford has a really strong arm, but i don't see them going deep down the field very often (certainly more than last year, but you can't get any worse than last year's lack of attempts).
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9772
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1857

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

mansquatch wrote:They can eat clock with the passing game, they just need more discipline, ie, WR getting tackled in bounds. Also, better play clock awareness, when you have the lead, every play should eat 35+ seconds.
In the NFL, the clock only stops on out-of-bounds plays in the final 2 minutes of the first half or the final 5 minutes of the game. So out of bounds really doesn't have an effect except in those times. Incompletions stop the clock, so if the Vikings were trying to run clock in the last 5 minutes, throwing the ball was more of a risk. However, given that Bradford is hitting 70% of his passes, it doesn't seem that risky.

My real issue yesterday came when we were ahead 30-17. There was still plenty of time left left, but the Vikings had already gone into a shell at that point. The worst part was after the strip-sack of Bradford and the Cardinals got their second-half TD to pull within 30-24. That, to me, was a time to answer with a great scoring drive -- or AT LEAST flip the field position. There was still about 7 and a half minutes left -- plenty of time for Arizona to take the lead if we went 3-and-out ... which we did. Locke got off a good kick, but the Arizona guy ran it back to the Vikings' 47. That was the point when the stadium just DEFLATED. The dread was incredible. It was like everybody went, "Here we go ... it's Detroit all over again."

Thankfully the Vikings dialed up the pass rush and forced the Cards to punt.

The whole second half, when CP's kick return put the Vikings up 10, it felt like the Vikings got very conservative. That's the reason for my analysis that the second-half play calling was terrible. Doesn't exactly take an expert to make such an analysis, but there you go. :tongue:
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
mansquatch
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3836
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
x 117

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by mansquatch »

mosscarter wrote:i agree he probably does fit the stereotype, but the question remains, why not hire someone who is a really good offensive coordinator? i know its hard when you don't have a line, but has there really been a big difference between norv and shurmer? the offensive point output surely has not gone up leaps and bounds. we've honestly had a poor offense for a really long time now. it's kind of hard because we've had one thing after another happen as far as injuries and progress. teddy had a great preseason i never saw him throw like that, but by no means does that mean it would have carried over to the regular season. it's well documented how horribly i thought he played last year, but one has to wonder was much of that because of norv's conservative approach? bradford has a really strong arm, but i don't see them going deep down the field very often (certainly more than last year, but you can't get any worse than last year's lack of attempts).
It is noticeably better from where it was versus Chicago and Philadelphia. But it is still anemic at best. My sense is that the deep game is lacking more due to protection and a lack of a rushing attack than any other reasons, so I wouldn't get too down on Bradford for that. We'll probably see it get a bit more interesting before the season is over as they've only had about 4 weeks of pure Shurmer, but we are porbably mostly seeing the limits of what this offense can do already.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
Nunin
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:40 am

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Nunin »

i spose i could post this on several threads, but i'll put it here.

the cardinals defense is number one against the pass and total yds per game. they only give up 19 points per game which is 10th in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=ARI


in light of that and knowing how much trouble the vikes offense has had, i think shurmer and co. did a good job against this team. i think it would be a tall task to expect the vikes offense to outperform the cards defense in what was a must win game for them. i think it's way too much for anyone to expect the vikes to impose their will on a team like that.

i think a better gauge going forward, is what kind of performance we get out of them against teams who are softer on defense. a team like detroit for instance:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=DET

i think shurmur is turning things around quickly in spite of the infirmary at o-line.
User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38292
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 409

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Mothman »

Nunin wrote:i spose i could post this on several threads, but i'll put it here.

the cardinals defense is number one against the pass and total yds per game. they only give up 19 points per game which is 10th in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=ARI


in light of that and knowing how much trouble the vikes offense has had, i think shurmer and co. did a good job against this team. i think it would be a tall task to expect the vikes offense to outperform the cards defense in what was a must win game for them. i think it's way too much for anyone to expect the vikes to impose their will on a team like that.

i think a better gauge going forward, is what kind of performance we get out of them against teams who are softer on defense. a team like detroit for instance:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=DET

i think shurmur is turning things around quickly in spite of the infirmary at o-line.
Maybe but the offense played at a similar level or better in a couple games before the bye so how much of it is Shurmur turning things around and how much of it is just the game-to-game difference in matchups, individual performances, etc.?

in the end, I guess that doesn't really matter as long as they're getting better after the eggs they laid against Philly and Chicago. :)
Nunin
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:40 am

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Nunin »

Mothman wrote: Maybe but the offense played at a similar level or better in a couple games before the bye so how much of it is Shurmur turning things around and how much of it is just the game-to-game difference in matchups, individual performances, etc.?

in the end, I guess that doesn't really matter as long as they're getting better after the eggs they laid against Philly and Chicago. :)

true on both accounts.....

my point is more to the fact that they lost 2 more tackles and switched OCs in that time.

CP is being unleashed, they're using an effective no huddle and they are gaining more yards on a consistent basis. they are obviously struggling to score and run the ball, but fortunately there are enough games left to establish some kind of consistency going forward.

i don't expect a whole lot out of the offense because it just hasn't been much this season from the getgo. BUT....if the defense can get back on track, i do believe that the way shurmur is using the roster, CP for and the different wrinkles for examples, that they stand a solid chance of returning to the formula that served them in the first 5 weeks but with a lot less predictability on offense.

whether that is enough to doing anything significant in January? dunno, but it does look they are playing better. maybe the losing streak will be a blessing?
IrishViking
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by IrishViking »

Nunin wrote:
true on both accounts.....

my point is more to the fact that they lost 2 more tackles and switched OCs in that time.

CP is being unleashed, they're using an effective no huddle and they are gaining more yards on a consistent basis. they are obviously struggling to score and run the ball, but fortunately there are enough games left to establish some kind of consistency going forward.

i don't expect a whole lot out of the offense because it just hasn't been much this season from the getgo. BUT....if the defense can get back on track, i do believe that the way shurmur is using the roster, CP for and the different wrinkles for examples, that they stand a solid chance of returning to the formula that served them in the first 5 weeks but with a lot less predictability on offense.

whether that is enough to doing anything significant in January? dunno, but it does look they are playing better. maybe the losing streak will be a blessing?
Just to chime in I think some of this is our OC playing catch up and almost outsmarting himself sometimes in an effort to try out X number of plays to see what makes the cut before the playoffs. If they pare back on the WC and the gimmicks I think Bradford will perform a little better with more chances to find a rhythm.
Nunin
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:40 am

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Nunin »

IrishViking wrote:
Just to chime in I think some of this is our OC playing catch up and almost outsmarting himself sometimes in an effort to try out X number of plays to see what makes the cut before the playoffs. If they pare back on the WC and the gimmicks I think Bradford will perform a little better with more chances to find a rhythm.
that's what i'm feeling to some degree. the continuing losses along the line are complicating it some too.
Alaskan
Starter
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:47 pm
x 17

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Alaskan »

Nunin wrote:
true on both accounts.....

my point is more to the fact that they lost 2 more tackles and switched OCs in that time.

CP is being unleashed, they're using an effective no huddle and they are gaining more yards on a consistent basis. they are obviously struggling to score and run the ball, but fortunately there are enough games left to establish some kind of consistency going forward.

i don't expect a whole lot out of the offense because it just hasn't been much this season from the getgo. BUT....if the defense can get back on track, i do believe that the way shurmur is using the roster, CP for and the different wrinkles for examples, that they stand a solid chance of returning to the formula that served them in the first 5 weeks but with a lot less predictability on offense.

whether that is enough to doing anything significant in January? dunno, but it does look they are playing better. maybe the losing streak will be a blessing?
Nunin
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:40 am

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Nunin »

@Alaskan...hey~
i just read that they expect AD to be cleared for action mid to late December...but that's up to him to play this year or not.
-
He was quoted as believing that it was something like god's will he missed last season because the superbowl is in houston this year. evidently god is a big football fan.
Anyway, i would wager that if the team gets rolling again and reels off 3-4 wins, including Dallas, he'll go for it.
-
As to Shurmur: i see his play calling and style similar to musgraves in terms of making the most outta what he's given.
musgrave's current offense is loaded with a great looking line and the Raiders are tearing it up. I'd like to see Shurmur get a good chance here with AD and Bradford with a more stable line. I like his creativity.
Boon
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 671
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:28 pm
x 32

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Boon »

Anyone notice on Rhodes 100 yard dash how Danielle Hunter was stride for stride with both Rhodes and Brown? A defensive end, that guy is a freakazoid my goodness
User avatar
Texas Vike
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4672
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 am
x 405

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by Texas Vike »

Boon wrote:Anyone notice on Rhodes 100 yard dash how Danielle Hunter was stride for stride with both Rhodes and Brown? A defensive end, that guy is a freakazoid my goodness

Zimmer thinks when all is said and done, he'll be the best D lineman on the team. :thumbsup:
808vikingsfan
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3927
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 151

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by 808vikingsfan »

I'd add Waynes on the good list for his coverage and run support and Rudolph on the bad list for his poor blocking.

When is Floyd coming back?
Joined: Aug 2006
Deleted: Sept 12 2014
Reborn: Sept 17 2014
losperros
Commissioner
Posts: 10041
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:47 am
Location: Burbank, California

Re: Vikes-Cards ... The Good and The Bad

Post by losperros »

808vikingsfan wrote:I'd add Waynes on the good list for his coverage and run support and Rudolph on the bad list for his poor blocking.
Definitely agree about Waynes. He and Rhodes are becoming a top notch CB tandem.

It's nice to finally see the Vikings defense with a quality secondary. I just wish everyone could stay healthy.
Post Reply