Where the Vikings' run game is broken

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Demi
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by Demi »

I do want to ask you though...Why is it you think that?
Norv is going to run "his offense", regardless of personnel. We saw it while he was here. We saw it before he was here. We saw it regardless of injuries. He has an idea of what he wants to do, and he's going to do it. Even if Teddy struggles to run the offense, and the WRs struggle to run his routes.

Shurmur is more adaptable. If Norv doesn't resign, would this team end up with more wins? I don't think so, considering the situation the team is at right now.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by PacificNorseWest »

From what we've seen so far from the two, I agree.
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Mothman
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by Mothman »

Demi wrote:Or could easily end up *not* having the worst in decades.
True, but the discussion was what they were on pace to do.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Mothman wrote: True, but the discussion was what they were on pace to do.
It was ugly yesterday, and that was one of our better games. We sat in the 40th row of the lower level in the end zone, a great place to sit. You can really see plays develop, like an all-22 view. The difference between when the Cardinals ran the ball (especially the first half) and when we ran the ball was stunning. Even on the somewhat positive plays, it looked like our backs were running straight into 1,000 pounds of humanity. Meanwhile, the Cardinals took advantage of what seems to be a tendency our defense has, which is to over-pursue. Yet, their line is banged up, as well.

If the Vikings' play doesn't improve in the running game -- and there is no indication they will -- we will certainly threaten records for futility.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: It was ugly yesterday, and that was one of our better games. We sat in the 40th row of the lower level in the end zone, a great place to sit. You can really see plays develop, like an all-22 view. The difference between when the Cardinals ran the ball (especially the first half) and when we ran the ball was stunning. Even on the somewhat positive plays, it looked like our backs were running straight into 1,000 pounds of humanity. Meanwhile, the Cardinals took advantage of what seems to be a tendency our defense has, which is to over-pursue. Yet, their line is banged up, as well.

If the Vikings' play doesn't improve in the running game -- and there is no indication they will -- we will certainly threaten records for futility.
It's hard to believe they've let it come to this but your description is right on target.

You described one of my favorite aspects of seeing a game in person: the ability to see plays develop because you can see the entire field, not just what fits on a TV screen. It's a very different experience.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by chicagopurple »

never works for me...I ALWAYS get fooled into following the recipient of the faked hand-off and missing the play.....
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by fiestavike »

Demi wrote: Norv is going to run "his offense", regardless of personnel. We saw it while he was here. We saw it before he was here. We saw it regardless of injuries. He has an idea of what he wants to do, and he's going to do it. Even if Teddy struggles to run the offense, and the WRs struggle to run his routes.

Shurmur is more adaptable. If Norv doesn't resign, would this team end up with more wins? I don't think so, considering the situation the team is at right now.
Some truth to this, although its overstated. Norv isn't just going to try to build the most effective offense for the moment, he's going to try to build and offense capable of dominating. We don't have anything close to the pieces for that with this OL and with Bridgewater out. I don't know much about Shurmur. Will his system fit better with this personnel? is he more adaptable? maybe. I don't like the direction this team is taking at this point. It feels more like the 90s and 00 teams floundering around for a way to win one game rather than building for a deeply quality organization that can compete every week, every season, year after year.

Trading a first rounder for a middling QB in an attempt to salvage this season was sign #1 that the Vikings are falling into old, unsuccessful patterns again.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by Mothman »

fiestavike wrote:Some truth to this, although its overstated. Norv isn't just going to try to build the most effective offense for the moment, he's going to try to build and offense capable of dominating. We don't have anything close to the pieces for that with this OL and with Bridgewater out. I don't know much about Shurmur. Will his system fit better with this personnel? is he more adaptable? maybe. I don't like the direction this team is taking at this point. It feels more like the 90s and 00 teams floundering around for a way to win one game rather than building for a deeply quality organization that can compete every week, every season, year after year.

Trading a first rounder for a middling QB in an attempt to salvage this season was sign #1 that the Vikings are falling into old, unsuccessful patterns again.
They never really departed from them. :(
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by fiestavike »

Mothman wrote: They never really departed from them. :(
You might be right. I thought there were a lot of indications that they were trending in a positive direction. Hopefully that trade was a "mistake" rather than an indication of things to come...It would have made a lot more sense to give that pick up for a player who might solve one of our Tackle positions longterm rather than Bradford.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by Nunin »

i can understand the sentiment for the pick traded for Sam. i gotta ask though, what lineman was available that would be a franchise type guy at that point and worth the pick?
How can the team build for the future in the middle of the season?
If TB never plays another down and Bradford continues to play as well as he has,(i know fiesta doesn't much care for Sam's play in the pocket) won't that trade pan out for the vikes?
Seems to me, the time to make hay on the o-line was during the draft and/or getting one of those guys the raiders got.
I just don't see the Bradford trade as a bad omen....this still has a long way to go before it can be fully tallied up IMO...unless he get's broken before then. That has to be a serious concern unfortunately.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by chicagopurple »

If this off season the vikes used EVERY draft pick on OL and ended up with 4-5 new good starters, I would be fine with it. We have no gaping holes in our team except for the OL. Our current QB is "ok", our current receivers are OK and would be better if they had a line capable of buying enough time for them to complete a damn route. Our Defense is very good. Kickers...blah but not worth wasting a good draft on it. RB...well these guys are playing with NO blocking. Everything starts with our Line....nothing will be fixed till that gets done.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by Nunin »

chicagopurple wrote:If this off season the vikes used EVERY draft pick on OL and ended up with 4-5 new good starters, I would be fine with it. We have no gaping holes in our team except for the OL. Our current QB is "ok", our current receivers are OK and would be better if they had a line capable of buying enough time for them to complete a damn route. Our Defense is very good. Kickers...blah but not worth wasting a good draft on it. RB...well these guys are playing with NO blocking. Everything starts with our Line....nothing will be fixed till that gets done.
i generally agree with your sentiment. i do believe the wr group is better than ok though. i think the pattern of having to keep rudolph in as a blocker, which he's been awful at lately, chokes off a big weapon in the pass game. it seems shurmur uses him far less than norv did from my vantage. but if the line were stable rudy would be having more positive impact than the negative one we saw last game
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by fiestavike »

i can understand the sentiment for the pick traded for Sam. i gotta ask though, what lineman was available that would be a franchise type guy at that point and worth the pick?
My point was that if they were going to surrender a 1st round pick (not to mention the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th that's going with it) it would have been wiser to target an OL who could help going forward, not just a 1 or 2 year bandaid. It would also be wiser not to trade those assets in the first place.

Nunin wrote: i generally agree with your sentiment. i do believe the wr group is better than ok though. i think the pattern of having to keep rudolph in as a blocker, which he's been awful at lately, chokes off a big weapon in the pass game. it seems shurmur uses him far less than norv did from my vantage. but if the line were stable rudy would be having more positive impact than the negative one we saw last game
OL and QB are killing this team. They are reasonably strong at every other position.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by Nunin »

fiestavike wrote: My point was that if they were going to surrender a 1st round pick (not to mention the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th that's going with it) it would have been wiser to target an OL who could help going forward, not just a 1 or 2 year bandaid. It would also be wiser not to trade those assets in the first place.

yeah, totally understood your point...I was just wondering if there was an OL you had in mind at that time who fit the bill. I could see the wisdom in getting that O-line guy and just sucking it up for a season with Hill/hiencke....but in truth maybe they felt Kalil and whatever that guys name is who played RT (smith?) were adequate.

As far as it being wiser not to trade to assets in the first place? i agree....i think they flinched a little.....but i also think it still has more than a punchers chance of working out very well too.
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Re: Where the Vikings' run game is broken

Post by IrishViking »

I don't get this assumption we HAVE a QB without Bradford? :confused:

By all accounts it is UNLIKELY that Teddy will ever play a down again, as a Teddy fan I say that. Whats the point in selling the bank for a an Olineman when you are right back to shots in the dark for a QB? :confused:

With Bradford you have an established, youngish, QB who has proven in real games that he does have a high ceiling. With even an AVERAGE Oline he would be mincing teams right now. And, thats is, by all accounts, what we thought we would have when we traded for him, an average, if not slightly below average Oline. Not the utter dumpster fire it has ended up being :puke: I know that people will say "I KNEW this was going to be an issue from the start!" etc etc. But that fact is you didnt, no one did. by all the metrics they were going to do okayish. You don't have the resources to prepare for the worst case scenario at every position after having to do so at QB.

Basically, with Bradford and this Defense, you have 4-5 years to find a passable Oline (I would say we are 1/5th to MAYBE 2/5ths of the way there) before Bradford and the D start to get long in the tooth. I like those odds a heck of a lot better than having 3/5ths of an oline and potentially needing to play a broken Teddy or hoping we hit on a QB draft pick in two years to have him ready in this window.
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