Norv Turner Resigns as OC

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TSonn
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by TSonn »

I wonder what this all means for Teddy. Not only does he need to come back from a devastating injury but he'll also need to learn a new offensive system (and potentially 2 if we don't keep Shurmur after this year).

I think this also suggests that Bradford is our long term QB since Bradford and Shurmur have the same amount of experience together as Teddy and Norv did. And I say "suggests" because I don't believe that Norv stepping down was 100% his decision.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

TSonn wrote:I wonder what this all means for Teddy. Not only does he need to come back from a devastating injury but he'll also need to learn a new offensive system (and potentially 2 if we don't keep Shurmur after this year).

I think this also suggests that Bradford is our long term QB since Bradford and Shurmur have the same amount of experience together as Teddy and Norv did. And I say "suggests" because I don't believe that Norv stepping down was 100% his decision.
I think Shurmur's scheme fits Teddy more as well compared to Turner's. Teddy has very good short to medium accuracy. That's a lot of what Shurmurs runs. I don't think much changes. He also seems to be around the building a lot so I'm sure he will have his nose in the playbook quite a bit while he's laid up
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by CbusVikesFan »

chicagopurple wrote:it still kinda sucks that the guys on the OL get paid for sucking and the OC pays the price.....and Spielman, the guy truly responsible for the whole mess is will likely go untouched.
Feels like putting lipstick on a pig.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by Raptorman »

TSonn wrote:I wonder what this all means for Teddy. Not only does he need to come back from a devastating injury but he'll also need to learn a new offensive system (and potentially 2 if we don't keep Shurmur after this year).

I think this also suggests that Bradford is our long term QB since Bradford and Shurmur have the same amount of experience together as Teddy and Norv did. And I say "suggests" because I don't believe that Norv stepping down was 100% his decision.
It's not like he doesn't have time to study a new playbook. :whistle:
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: I mean this team just started to get going last year after a complete rebuild in 2012. If he was a guy that had no clue what he was doing or was a bad GM we wouldn't have went 11-5 last year
I didn't say Spielman is clueless or that he's a bad GM. He's not a bad GM. What worries me is that he might not be a good enough GM. I believe that's a legitimate concern.
The team is 30 times better than it was in 2012.
Is that why they were just blown out the past 2 weeks, can't run the ball worth a damn and just lost to a 1-6 team?
You don't just turn around and get to the playoffs and win a super bowl after you start from the ground up in 2012.
They didn't start from the ground up in 2012. They started a serious rebuild a year earlier, in 2011, with Spielman as the main driving force behind it, even if he wasn't officially the GM until a year later. They've been building for 5+ seasons and 6 offseasons now.
He's built the best defense in the NFL. Yeah the offense is struggling but we've also lost both of the toughest positions to fill on the OL, the best RB in the league and our starting QB.
He's helped build one of the best defenses in the NFL and one of the worst offenses in the NFL. It's been near the bottom for 2.5 years not just this season, and the injuries you mentioned and the moves they've forced have further underlined issues with his judgment and lack of foresight.

As I said, I think his failures have offset his successes. Thus far, this season illustrates that quite well. We'll see what the rest of it brings. Maybe it will be the season that proves Spielman can build a champion and we'll be as happy in February as Cubs fans are this morning.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

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Pondering Her Percy wrote:It seems like some people on here think that we had imaginary picks back in the day that would've given us good offensive lineman, we didnt use them and we'd still be able to have all the studs on defense that we do. It doesnt work that way. There is just nothing realistic about that.
I don't see anybody saying that either. Let's deal with actual assertions, not straw men.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by Norv Zimmer »

Laserman wrote:
OK Don't draft O linemen and lets continue with the same inept Line for the next few years. :hitfan:
I don't think anyone is saying that, teams use draft picks differently for different reasons. We would not have our defense without our draft picks.

I for one don't think the cowgirls are super bowl bound.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by autobon7 »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: But like I said, if we pulled off what the Cowboys did, we wouldnt have the defense we have. It's easy to sit behind a computer screen and say, DO WHAT THE COWBOYS DID!!!!!

It's not that simple. If we did what they did, we wouldnt have guys like Barr, Rhodes, Waynes, Kendricks, Smith, etc.

It seems like some people on here think that we had imaginary picks back in the day that would've given us good offensive lineman, we didnt use them and we'd still be able to have all the studs on defense that we do. It doesnt work that way. There is just nothing realistic about that.
What we could have done and should have done last draft was go OL instead of Treadwell. Just my opinion.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by losperros »

autobon7 wrote:What we could have done and should have done last draft was go OL instead of Treadwell. Just my opinion.
Agree completely. I believe the Vikings staff made some mistakes evaluating the team and its players in the recent past. That includes a questionable case of denial regarding the OL needs.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by mansquatch »

I don't think they had a case of denial. They replaced 4 out of 5 starters on the OL and changed out the coach. That is addressing the situation. The problem is that their solutions have so far ended up being a step backwards instead of a step forward. Injuries obviously are a piece of this puzzle, but not the only piece.

My sense in reading all of this is that there was a deep division of opinion in how to use the roster and what types of things we could effectively run. Norv probably realized that things were not going in the direction he would prefer, whether it was right or wrong and thus he decided to step aside for the better of the team. I don't think it is a case of him running for the hills. Remember what Zimmer had to say about Bobby Petrino when he was with the Falcons? If Norv had done that Zimmer likely would have skewered him.

Obviously something went on over that bye week. Our offense wasn't anywhere near as awful going into it as it was coming out. Something was wrong and it had to get fixed. After two abyssmal games something broke and this is the result. How or why it all went down we'll never know. Now we just need to see them play better.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by Purple Martin »

mansquatch wrote:I don't think they had a case of denial. They replaced 4 out of 5 starters on the OL and changed out the coach. That is addressing the situation. The problem is that their solutions have so far ended up being a step backwards instead of a step forward. Injuries obviously are a piece of this puzzle, but not the only piece.

My sense in reading all of this is that there was a deep division of opinion in how to use the roster and what types of things we could effectively run. Norv probably realized that things were not going in the direction he would prefer, whether it was right or wrong and thus he decided to step aside for the better of the team. I don't think it is a case of him running for the hills. Remember what Zimmer had to say about Bobby Petrino when he was with the Falcons? If Norv had done that Zimmer likely would have skewered him.

Obviously something went on over that bye week. Our offense wasn't anywhere near as awful going into it as it was coming out. Something was wrong and it had to get fixed. After two abyssmal games something broke and this is the result. How or why it all went down we'll never know. Now we just need to see them play better.
Well we kinda do know. Bradford was sacked 11 times in 2 games and Zimmer didn't like it. Zimmer never interfered in any way with Norv's offense until recently, when they had a discussion about how to protect Bradford better. Norv didn't agree on whatever Zim was suggesting or nudging him toward, so he left.
Mothman wrote:... a good completion percentage in a performance like that is like putting lipstick on a pig.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by chicagopurple »

until spielman realizes that the Ol must be his primary focus we are not going to progress. It wasn't that long ago that we had a good OL...all of you on this thread have been around long enough to know what a team with a good OL can do. tweaking the plays and changing between these 2 QBs is just lipstick on the pig until we get a quality Ol.
As far as the long term team prospect goes, players come and go in the NFL. Its a brutal game with pretty short careers usually. What is more important than the specific players is the Corporate philosophy and SCOUTING. Teams like the Pats always have solid lines, always find reasonably priced good players at key positions and have a back up at hand. They seem to avoid holding on to "stars" that become over priced liabilities and replace them with solid players. SUcessful teams coach up players and show improvement. Zim seems to be able to do this on defense. Honestly, I see NO ability to coach up talent on our offense. None of our QBs in recent hx have shown long term improvement...ponder, Teddy, etc etc just stagnate. Our WR seem to do so too....perhaps Diggs will break that mold. Our OL NEVER improves. Our special teams HAVE improved over last 5-7 yrs. Not our offense.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by Purple Martin »

chicagopurple wrote:until spielman realizes that the Ol must be his primary focus we are not going to progress. It wasn't that long ago that we had a good OL...all of you on this thread have been around long enough to know what a team with a good OL can do. tweaking the plays and changing between these 2 QBs is just lipstick on the pig until we get a quality Ol.
As far as the long term team prospect goes, players come and go in the NFL. Its a brutal game with pretty short careers usually. What is more important than the specific players is the Corporate philosophy and SCOUTING. Teams like the Pats always have solid lines, always find reasonably priced good players at key positions and have a back up at hand. They seem to avoid holding on to "stars" that become over priced liabilities and replace them with solid players. SUcessful teams coach up players and show improvement. Zim seems to be able to do this on defense. Honestly, I see NO ability to coach up talent on our offense. None of our QBs in recent hx have shown long term improvement...ponder, Teddy, etc etc just stagnate. Our WR seem to do so too....perhaps Diggs will break that mold. Our OL NEVER improves. Our special teams HAVE improved over last 5-7 yrs. Not our offense.
You're being a bit contradictory. According to you (and I agree 100%) successful teams coach up players, and it isn't happening on our offense. Name one single offensive player who has significantly improved since Norv got here. There isn't one, except maybe Thielen. Therefore we should be able to improve with better coaching, just as we have on defense.
Mothman wrote:... a good completion percentage in a performance like that is like putting lipstick on a pig.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by chicagopurple »

you can coach up a good solid avg player.....I don't think Spielman has given us good/solid players for the OL....he gambled on Clemmings (seems pretty poor), he gambled on a guy with blown discs in his back( sully) who was never gonna be healthy again. He has pissed away years on Kalil who never showed the skill/dedication and should have been gone long ago, and pretended for yrs that Fusco was anything more then an emergency back up player. Norv couldn't fix that with creativity. Neither will any new guy. Spielman needs to do his job. Or we need to upgrade our GM. I don't think he has performed nearly well enough and he has had plenty of time.....If you want to be the best, and that is our ONLY goal, then you need an NFL version of Theo Epstein.....not Spielman.
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Re: Norv Turner Resigns as OC

Post by Mothman »

Purple Martin wrote:You're being a bit contradictory. According to you (and I agree 100%) successful teams coach up players, and it isn't happening on our offense. Name one single offensive player who has significantly improved since Norv got here. There isn't one, except maybe Thielen.
Thielen has definitely improved and Line has too. Actually, Patterson's route running has improved too. McKinnon and Diggs came in as rookies but they've played like they're well-coached and McKinnon is in a system quite different than the one he played in as a college player.

Some would argue that Bridgewater showed improvement too.
Therefore we should be able to improve with better coaching, just as we have on defense.
It's certainly possible but is Shurmur actually a better coach than Turner? I don't know.
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