what a disaster

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Thaumaturgist
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Re: what a disaster

Post by Thaumaturgist »

Mothman wrote:Start scouting the second round! ;)
Oh, if only that inspired confidence... I just have no confidence in the ability of the scouting department to find good OL talent.
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Re: what a disaster

Post by Norv Zimmer »

Thaumaturgist wrote: Oh, if only that inspired confidence... I just have no confidence in the ability of the scouting department to find good OL talent.
I think Jim was pointing out the fact that we dont have a 1st round pick so 5-11 is out of the question. Remember the Bradford trade?
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Mothman
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Re: what a disaster

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Norv Zimmer wrote: I think Jim was pointing out the fact that we dont have a 1st round pick so 5-11 is out of the question. Remember the Bradford trade?

Yes, that's exactly what I was doing. :)
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chicagopurple
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Re: what a disaster

Post by chicagopurple »

with Spielman and his "talent scouts", we are sure to find more overpaid busts for the OL....Wilf better be looking long and hard at making a change in our scouting/drafting crew. Fundamental friggin football.....If you have no front line, you have no chance.....
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Re: what a disaster

Post by VikingPaul73 »

You're asking me what my plan is to in 1 week fix a problem that has been festering for YEARS. Sorry, but there isn't a magic wand to fix this, despite how angry or frustrated the fan base might be.

Play out the season, fire Norv, hire a new OC and let him have some input into the type of offense he wants to run and the type of OL he wants. Hopefully in 2 years we can have an OL that is capable of competing, and that the defense can still be at the same level or even better.
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Re: what a disaster

Post by mondry »

Clemmings for whatever reason actually plays half way decent at left tackle. Maybe he's like Zoolander and can only turn one way but seriously, watch the tape of him at LT and it's not nearly as bad as he is at RT.

This thing really started to implode when we got Jake Long and swapped positions again. With all the injuries I thought we were past just penciling in "named" guys like Kalil and Long that were ineffective. I'd rather play WHOEVER and WHEREVER that's even remotely just OKAY at this point and I thought Clemmings at LT and Sirles at RT showed some promise. Granted the bar is set 5000 feet underground but still.
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Mothman
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Re: what a disaster

Post by Mothman »

mondry wrote:Clemmings for whatever reason actually plays half way decent at left tackle.


If you watch closely, he really doesn't... :( He's just been an awful player thus far and he's showing no signs of getting better.
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Re: what a disaster

Post by halfgiz »

Mothman wrote:

If you watch closely, he really doesn't... :( He's just been an awful player thus far and he's showing no signs of getting better.
TJ Clemmings has a PFF rating of 24.8. That would be the worst rating we have given a tackle in the past decade over a season.
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Mothman
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Re: what a disaster

Post by Mothman »

halfgiz wrote: TJ Clemmings has a PFF rating of 24.8. That would be the worst rating we have given a tackle in the past decade over a season.

Ouch.
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chicagopurple
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Re: what a disaster

Post by chicagopurple »

yeah, he and Long suck and that's all on Norv........ :wallbang:
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Re: what a disaster

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

VikingPaul73 wrote:You're asking me what my plan is to in 1 week fix a problem that has been festering for YEARS. Sorry, but there isn't a magic wand to fix this, despite how angry or frustrated the fan base might be.

Play out the season, fire Norv, hire a new OC and let him have some input into the type of offense he wants to run and the type of OL he wants. Hopefully in 2 years we can have an OL that is capable of competing, and that the defense can still be at the same level or even better.
That just sounds like "lets just go in tank mode...the season is over" type attitude if you ask me. Boone, Berger and Fusco arent the greatest OL in the world but they can hold up. The tackles can not. By making a trade, you fix one of the two MAJOR problems. Let Long, Sirles and Clemmings battle out the right side. Problem isnt solved but problem is patched up until the offseason. We would be set at LT, set at LG, "set" at C although we need to draft one, right side is a question mark. Unless Harris comes back. Because everyone thought I was brain dead last year because I said Harris was our best OL and now everyone is starting to realize how much Fusco sucks.

Either way I would MUCH rather go into the offseason needing a RG and RT vs. a LT and RT. Guards are much much easier to find than tackles are. How many teams in the last 20 years have had to replace both OTs in the same offseason and didnt have a first round pick?? Those are two positions you DO NOT want empty come the offseason. One needs to be secured before this deadline today
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Re: what a disaster

Post by Texas Vike »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: That just sounds like "lets just go in tank mode...the season is over" type attitude if you ask me. Boone, Berger and Fusco arent the greatest OL in the world but they can hold up. The tackles can not. By making a trade, you fix one of the two MAJOR problems. Let Long, Sirles and Clemmings battle out the right side. Problem isnt solved but problem is patched up until the offseason. We would be set at LT, set at LG, "set" at C although we need to draft one, right side is a question mark. Unless Harris comes back. Because everyone thought I was brain dead last year because I said Harris was our best OL and now everyone is starting to realize how much Fusco sucks.

Either way I would MUCH rather go into the offseason needing a RG and RT vs. a LT and RT. Guards are much much easier to find than tackles are. How many teams in the last 20 years have had to replace both OTs in the same offseason and didnt have a first round pick?? Those are two positions you DO NOT want empty come the offseason. One needs to be secured before this deadline today

Good post. I agree. As long as the deal is reasonable. If we're going to be so darn hesitant with playing him anyway, let's trade Treadwell.
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Thaumaturgist
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Re: what a disaster

Post by Thaumaturgist »

Mothman wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I was doing. :)
Yep, I understood that. The scouting department doesn't inspire me no matter what round we're picking.
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Re: what a disaster

Post by Mothman »

Pondering Her Percy wrote:just sounds like "lets just go in tank mode...the season is over" type attitude if you ask me. Boone, Berger and Fusco arent the greatest OL in the world but they can hold up.
Tell me, when does that start. I look forward to seeing it. ;)
Because everyone thought I was brain dead last year because I said Harris was our best OL and now everyone is starting to realize how much Fusco sucks.
Harris isn't really good either. He's a backup-quality player who looked adequate when playing for the Vikings last year because he was playing next to another backup-quality player and a likely bust.
Either way I would MUCH rather go into the offseason needing a RG and RT vs. a LT and RT. Guards are much much easier to find than tackles are. How many teams in the last 20 years have had to replace both OTs in the same offseason and didnt have a first round pick?? Those are two positions you DO NOT want empty come the offseason. One needs to be secured before this deadline today
Assuming they can even clear the cap room to make that possible, which seems unlikely...

I guess we'll know if they pulled off a trade soon.
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Re: what a disaster

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Mothman wrote: Tell me, when does that start. I look forward to seeing it. ;)
Harris isn't really good either. He's a backup-quality player who looked adequate when playing for the Vikings last year because he was playing next to another backup-quality player and a likely bust.
Assuming they can even clear the cap room to make that possible, which seems unlikely...

I guess we'll know if they pulled off a trade soon.
I'm not getting into this again with you but Mike Harris is a pretty solid starter. I would say average to slightly above average. His PFF grade last year was 77.8 and was the 22nd best guard in the NFL last year according to PFF. That's above average. Whether you like PFF or not, he doesn't get driven back like Fusco does, doesn't give up nearly as much pressure and gets to the second level in the run game. Fuscos rating this year is 51 and was 61 last year. Harris is much better. Plain and simple, Mike Harris is a better RG than Fusco. He's a solid starter. The proof is in the pudding. I've said this for over a year now
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