Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

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Will Norv Turner remain offensive coordinator

Yes
28
88%
No
4
13%
 
Total votes: 32

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HardcoreVikesFan
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by HardcoreVikesFan » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:08 pm

I honestly feel like I continually slam my head into a wall every time the offensive scheme comes into question: This team's personnel is not suited for Norv Turner's offense. It never has been, it never will be.

Our offense would be a perfect West Coast offense. Coincidentally enough, we have an assistant coach who used to run a West Coast: Pat Shurmur. Also, while I am at it, who was Shurmur's QB when he was an OC? Sam Bradford.

This offense has so much potential to be better. It is a shame it is held back by horrible offensive line play and questionable play calling.
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by Boon » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:16 am

Purple Martin wrote: Three straight years of ever-worsening offensive performance. We've been through changes in RB, QB, Oline, seasons, offseasons, assistant coaches and still we suck offensively. What has remained the same through all of this sucking? Norv Turner, the over-rated OC who once won a Super Bowl with a Hall of Fame QB and a Hall of Fame RB, and hasn't been near one since.
Don't forget a hall of fame wr, a possible HOF center, and three other Olinemen who might have been hall of famers had they not done stupid #### off the field. Two went to prison, one committed suicide.
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by UKno1VIKING » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:21 am

Boon wrote: Don't forget a hall of fame wr, a possible HOF center, and three other Olinemen who might have been hall of famers had they not done stupid #### off the field. Two went to prison, one committed suicide.
His playcalling will do that to you :whistle:
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by jackal » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:28 am

I don't think Norv will go anywhere until he wants too...

Personally I would like Norv to go into quality control assistant HC role and
let Pat take over.

Maybe Scott gets another job and Norv and move to another team??
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by Texas Vike » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:41 pm

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:I honestly feel like I continually slam my head into a wall every time the offensive scheme comes into question: This team's personnel is not suited for Norv Turner's offense. It never has been, it never will be.

Our offense would be a perfect West Coast offense. Coincidentally enough, we have an assistant coach who used to run a West Coast: Pat Shurmur. Also, while I am at it, who was Shurmur's QB when he was an OC? Sam Bradford.

This offense has so much potential to be better. It is a shame it is held back by horrible offensive line play and questionable play calling.

Exactly.

Unfortunately, for this to come to fruition, the Vikes would have to continue to suck nuts on O the rest of the season. Might be worth it to get rid of Norv! If you played a drinking game where you had to imbibe every time he calls for a run on first down you'd be sloshed by the 4th series.
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by Mothman » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:02 pm

Texas Vike wrote:Exactly.

Unfortunately, for this to come to fruition, the Vikes would have to continue to suck nuts on O the rest of the season. Might be worth it to get rid of Norv! If you played a drinking game where you had to imbibe every time he calls for a run on first down you'd be sloshed by the 4th series.
My question is would getting rid of Norv really make much difference? As I just asked in another thread, is he taking his cues from Zimmer? We're 2.5 years into this coaching regime. If Zimmer didn't like the playcalling or offensive philosophy, I have to believe it would have changed more significantly by now. Under Zimmer, the Vikes have run a more conservative offense than the typical Turner offense. If that's because Zimmer wants it that way, changing coordinators may not do much to solve the problem.
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by Texas Vike » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:40 pm

Mothman wrote: My question is would getting rid of Norv really make much difference? As I just asked in another thread, is he taking his cues from Zimmer? We're 2.5 years into this coaching regime. If Zimmer didn't like the playcalling or offensive philosophy, I have to believe it would have changed more significantly by now. Under Zimmer, the Vikes have run a more conservative offense than the typical Turner offense. If that's because Zimmer wants it that way, changing coordinators may not do much to solve the problem.

In one of Zimmer's recent pressers, he was surprisingly forthright about his offense. Paraphrasing, it was essentially: "We are built in such a way that we must avoid big mistakes--fumbles, sacks, interceptions--in order to win". But I think this is more his awareness of where they are rather than an offensive philosophy. I don't doubt that his ideal offense would be quite conservative and emphasize ball control and avoidance of mistakes. But judging by the way he defends, I'd guess that he would LOVE to have a dominant line leading a strong RB that could pound the snot out of its opponents. I just don't think he's equipped to realize that goal like he is on the defensive side of the ball. I think when he was hired he recognized his lack of offensive experience/ vision, so he went with a veteran OC in Norv, but is now starting to question the effectiveness of what he's doing.
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by Mothman » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:37 pm

Texas Vike wrote:In one of Zimmer's recent pressers, he was surprisingly forthright about his offense. Paraphrasing, it was essentially: "We are built in such a way that we must avoid big mistakes--fumbles, sacks, interceptions--in order to win". But I think this is more his awareness of where they are rather than an offensive philosophy.


I interpreted those comments the same way. he knows they;re not good enough to overcome big mistakes and negative plays.
I don't doubt that his ideal offense would be quite conservative and emphasize ball control and avoidance of mistakes. But judging by the way he defends, I'd guess that he would LOVE to have a dominant line leading a strong RB that could pound the snot out of its opponents. I just don't think he's equipped to realize that goal like he is on the defensive side of the ball. I think when he was hired he recognized his lack of offensive experience/ vision, so he went with a veteran OC in Norv, but is now starting to question the effectiveness of what he's doing.
Perhaps he is but if that's the case, it's troubling because we're 2.5 years in and he's the head coach. He and Spielman needed to have a vision for the team from the start, not just the defense. Maybe they did and they just haven't been able to pull it all together yet but it doesn't look that way to me. I think the ball control offense you described above is essentially the strategy Zimmer employed last year, although without the dominant line. It's not a bad strategy either but if that's his vision for the offense, why hasn't building a better line been a bigger priority, especially because they've also been trying to develop a young QB for the past 2 years?

It makes me crazy! :)
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by halfgiz » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:19 am

Ok now Zimmer needs to promote Norv to another job title for the rest of the season.
And give the offense to Shurmur and see what he can come up with to salvage the season.
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by mondry » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:31 am

Texas Vike wrote:
Exactly.

Unfortunately, for this to come to fruition, the Vikes would have to continue to suck nuts on O the rest of the season. Might be worth it to get rid of Norv! If you played a drinking game where you had to imbibe every time he calls for a run on first down you'd be sloshed by the 4th series.

Every first down play of the first quarter for us, when game script and momentum should have very little effect on the play calling. Aka we're not down 20-3.

1-10-MIN 25
(15:00) 44-M.Asiata left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard (50-J.Freeman).

1-10-MIN 42
(13:52) 62-N.Easton reported in as eligible. 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 44 for 2 yards (98-M.Unrein).

1-10-CHI 44
(12:46) 44-M.Asiata left guard to CHI 39 for 5 yards (74-J.Bullard).

1-10-MIN 25
(8:28) (Shotgun) 33-R.Hillman right guard to MIN 27 for 2 yards (96-A.Hicks)

1-10-
(5:19) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford pass incomplete short right to 14-S.Diggs.

1-10-MIN 32
(3:12) 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 39 for 7 yards (59-D.Trevathan; 29-H.Jones-Quartey).

1 pass and 5 super vanilla runs off the left or right guard.... LOL
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:49 am

mondry wrote:
Every first down play of the first quarter for us, when game script and momentum should have very little effect on the play calling. Aka we're not down 20-3.

1-10-MIN 25
(15:00) 44-M.Asiata left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard (50-J.Freeman).

1-10-MIN 42
(13:52) 62-N.Easton reported in as eligible. 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 44 for 2 yards (98-M.Unrein).

1-10-CHI 44
(12:46) 44-M.Asiata left guard to CHI 39 for 5 yards (74-J.Bullard).

1-10-MIN 25
(8:28) (Shotgun) 33-R.Hillman right guard to MIN 27 for 2 yards (96-A.Hicks)

1-10-
(5:19) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford pass incomplete short right to 14-S.Diggs.

1-10-MIN 32
(3:12) 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 39 for 7 yards (59-D.Trevathan; 29-H.Jones-Quartey).

1 pass and 5 super vanilla runs off the left or right guard.... LOL
I'll tell you guys one thing, Matt Asiata is a legitimate bum. I havent been a fan for quite some time now, but when you mix bad run blocking with his running style, it's as gross as it gets. I sure hope Hillman learns this playbook fast. At least he has some speed and elusiveness to him. Asiata does nothing besides run into the back of our line, he hasn't made a guy miss in his career and he provides this offense with zero spark or big play ability. I would have no problem cutting the guy and signing someone off the street
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by Mothman » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:58 am

mondry wrote:Every first down play of the first quarter for us, when game script and momentum should have very little effect on the play calling. Aka we're not down 20-3.

1-10-MIN 25
(15:00) 44-M.Asiata left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard (50-J.Freeman).

1-10-MIN 42
(13:52) 62-N.Easton reported in as eligible. 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 44 for 2 yards (98-M.Unrein).

1-10-CHI 44
(12:46) 44-M.Asiata left guard to CHI 39 for 5 yards (74-J.Bullard).

1-10-MIN 25
(8:28) (Shotgun) 33-R.Hillman right guard to MIN 27 for 2 yards (96-A.Hicks)

1-10-
(5:19) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford pass incomplete short right to 14-S.Diggs.

1-10-MIN 32
(3:12) 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 39 for 7 yards (59-D.Trevathan; 29-H.Jones-Quartey).

1 pass and 5 super vanilla runs off the left or right guard.... LOL
Just out of curiosity, what would you consider a non-vanilla run, other than a handoff to a wide receiver? Running out of the wildcat?
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by Purple Martin » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:37 am

mondry wrote:
Every first down play of the first quarter for us, when game script and momentum should have very little effect on the play calling. Aka we're not down 20-3.

1-10-MIN 25
(15:00) 44-M.Asiata left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard (50-J.Freeman).

1-10-MIN 42
(13:52) 62-N.Easton reported in as eligible. 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 44 for 2 yards (98-M.Unrein).

1-10-CHI 44
(12:46) 44-M.Asiata left guard to CHI 39 for 5 yards (74-J.Bullard).

1-10-MIN 25
(8:28) (Shotgun) 33-R.Hillman right guard to MIN 27 for 2 yards (96-A.Hicks)

1-10-
(5:19) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford pass incomplete short right to 14-S.Diggs.

1-10-MIN 32
(3:12) 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 39 for 7 yards (59-D.Trevathan; 29-H.Jones-Quartey).

1 pass and 5 super vanilla runs off the left or right guard.... LOL
Amen. :appl: I'll bet the Bears never saw any of it coming either. :wallbang:
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by chicagopurple » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:02 am

when you have NO OL you have no choice. The buffoons we have up front are incapable of any complex blocking schemes, they cant even block for simple straight ahead runs. If you think our losses are due to poor play selection, you are delusional. We have NO OL. We cannot run any offense successfully until that is fixed. Get used to losing. We just lost to the WORST team in the league and the entire game the OL was a bunch of confused guys sliding backwards. Norv Turner is known for running a highly variable offense with lots of curve balls. He is fully aware that he is stuck on a team with a limited QB and an OL that MAYBE will provide 1 second of "protection" before the entire defensive line is in your backfield. What do you REALLY think he is going to gameplan?!?
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Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)

Post by Texas Vike » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:00 pm

Mothman wrote: Just out of curiosity, what would you consider a non-vanilla run, other than a handoff to a wide receiver? Running out of the wildcat?
You asked this of Mondry, not me, but I think it's a good question. I hate the lack of creativity in our running game. By vanilla, I would mean that there are no pitches, no pulling guards, none of the smart counters that Cutler pulled successfully on us last night--on that play flipping it when he saw a huge running lane for his RB. Norv's MO is to stubbornly run right up the middle behind our horrendous O linemen. Who knows, maybe if we tried going wide or pulling our Gs we'd fare even worse, but I'd love to see some variety and creativity and less predictability.
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