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 Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll) 

Will Norv Turner remain offensive coordinator
Yes 88%  88%  [ 28 ]
No 13%  13%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 32

 Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll) 
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I honestly feel like I continually slam my head into a wall every time the offensive scheme comes into question: This team's personnel is not suited for Norv Turner's offense. It never has been, it never will be.

Our offense would be a perfect West Coast offense. Coincidentally enough, we have an assistant coach who used to run a West Coast: Pat Shurmur. Also, while I am at it, who was Shurmur's QB when he was an OC? Sam Bradford.

This offense has so much potential to be better. It is a shame it is held back by horrible offensive line play and questionable play calling.

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Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:08 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Purple Martin wrote:
Three straight years of ever-worsening offensive performance. We've been through changes in RB, QB, Oline, seasons, offseasons, assistant coaches and still we suck offensively. What has remained the same through all of this sucking? Norv Turner, the over-rated OC who once won a Super Bowl with a Hall of Fame QB and a Hall of Fame RB, and hasn't been near one since.


Don't forget a hall of fame wr, a possible HOF center, and three other Olinemen who might have been hall of famers had they not done stupid #### off the field. Two went to prison, one committed suicide.


Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:16 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Boon wrote:
Purple Martin wrote:
Three straight years of ever-worsening offensive performance. We've been through changes in RB, QB, Oline, seasons, offseasons, assistant coaches and still we suck offensively. What has remained the same through all of this sucking? Norv Turner, the over-rated OC who once won a Super Bowl with a Hall of Fame QB and a Hall of Fame RB, and hasn't been near one since.


Don't forget a hall of fame wr, a possible HOF center, and three other Olinemen who might have been hall of famers had they not done stupid #### off the field. Two went to prison, one committed suicide.


His playcalling will do that to you :whistle:


Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:21 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
I don't think Norv will go anywhere until he wants too...

Personally I would like Norv to go into quality control assistant HC role and
let Pat take over.

Maybe Scott gets another job and Norv and move to another team??

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Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:28 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
I honestly feel like I continually slam my head into a wall every time the offensive scheme comes into question: This team's personnel is not suited for Norv Turner's offense. It never has been, it never will be.

Our offense would be a perfect West Coast offense. Coincidentally enough, we have an assistant coach who used to run a West Coast: Pat Shurmur. Also, while I am at it, who was Shurmur's QB when he was an OC? Sam Bradford.

This offense has so much potential to be better. It is a shame it is held back by horrible offensive line play and questionable play calling.



Exactly.

Unfortunately, for this to come to fruition, the Vikes would have to continue to suck nuts on O the rest of the season. Might be worth it to get rid of Norv! If you played a drinking game where you had to imbibe every time he calls for a run on first down you'd be sloshed by the 4th series.


Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:41 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Texas Vike wrote:
Exactly.

Unfortunately, for this to come to fruition, the Vikes would have to continue to suck nuts on O the rest of the season. Might be worth it to get rid of Norv! If you played a drinking game where you had to imbibe every time he calls for a run on first down you'd be sloshed by the 4th series.


My question is would getting rid of Norv really make much difference? As I just asked in another thread, is he taking his cues from Zimmer? We're 2.5 years into this coaching regime. If Zimmer didn't like the playcalling or offensive philosophy, I have to believe it would have changed more significantly by now. Under Zimmer, the Vikes have run a more conservative offense than the typical Turner offense. If that's because Zimmer wants it that way, changing coordinators may not do much to solve the problem.


Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:02 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Mothman wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
Exactly.

Unfortunately, for this to come to fruition, the Vikes would have to continue to suck nuts on O the rest of the season. Might be worth it to get rid of Norv! If you played a drinking game where you had to imbibe every time he calls for a run on first down you'd be sloshed by the 4th series.


My question is would getting rid of Norv really make much difference? As I just asked in another thread, is he taking his cues from Zimmer? We're 2.5 years into this coaching regime. If Zimmer didn't like the playcalling or offensive philosophy, I have to believe it would have changed more significantly by now. Under Zimmer, the Vikes have run a more conservative offense than the typical Turner offense. If that's because Zimmer wants it that way, changing coordinators may not do much to solve the problem.



In one of Zimmer's recent pressers, he was surprisingly forthright about his offense. Paraphrasing, it was essentially: "We are built in such a way that we must avoid big mistakes--fumbles, sacks, interceptions--in order to win". But I think this is more his awareness of where they are rather than an offensive philosophy. I don't doubt that his ideal offense would be quite conservative and emphasize ball control and avoidance of mistakes. But judging by the way he defends, I'd guess that he would LOVE to have a dominant line leading a strong RB that could pound the snot out of its opponents. I just don't think he's equipped to realize that goal like he is on the defensive side of the ball. I think when he was hired he recognized his lack of offensive experience/ vision, so he went with a veteran OC in Norv, but is now starting to question the effectiveness of what he's doing.


Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:40 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Texas Vike wrote:
In one of Zimmer's recent pressers, he was surprisingly forthright about his offense. Paraphrasing, it was essentially: "We are built in such a way that we must avoid big mistakes--fumbles, sacks, interceptions--in order to win". But I think this is more his awareness of where they are rather than an offensive philosophy.


I interpreted those comments the same way. he knows they;re not good enough to overcome big mistakes and negative plays.

Quote:
I don't doubt that his ideal offense would be quite conservative and emphasize ball control and avoidance of mistakes. But judging by the way he defends, I'd guess that he would LOVE to have a dominant line leading a strong RB that could pound the snot out of its opponents. I just don't think he's equipped to realize that goal like he is on the defensive side of the ball. I think when he was hired he recognized his lack of offensive experience/ vision, so he went with a veteran OC in Norv, but is now starting to question the effectiveness of what he's doing.


Perhaps he is but if that's the case, it's troubling because we're 2.5 years in and he's the head coach. He and Spielman needed to have a vision for the team from the start, not just the defense. Maybe they did and they just haven't been able to pull it all together yet but it doesn't look that way to me. I think the ball control offense you described above is essentially the strategy Zimmer employed last year, although without the dominant line. It's not a bad strategy either but if that's his vision for the offense, why hasn't building a better line been a bigger priority, especially because they've also been trying to develop a young QB for the past 2 years?

It makes me crazy! :)


Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:37 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Ok now Zimmer needs to promote Norv to another job title for the rest of the season.
And give the offense to Shurmur and see what he can come up with to salvage the season.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:19 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Texas Vike wrote:
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
I honestly feel like I continually slam my head into a wall every time the offensive scheme comes into question: This team's personnel is not suited for Norv Turner's offense. It never has been, it never will be.

Our offense would be a perfect West Coast offense. Coincidentally enough, we have an assistant coach who used to run a West Coast: Pat Shurmur. Also, while I am at it, who was Shurmur's QB when he was an OC? Sam Bradford.

This offense has so much potential to be better. It is a shame it is held back by horrible offensive line play and questionable play calling.



Exactly.

Unfortunately, for this to come to fruition, the Vikes would have to continue to suck nuts on O the rest of the season. Might be worth it to get rid of Norv! If you played a drinking game where you had to imbibe every time he calls for a run on first down you'd be sloshed by the 4th series.



Every first down play of the first quarter for us, when game script and momentum should have very little effect on the play calling. Aka we're not down 20-3.

1-10-MIN 25
(15:00) 44-M.Asiata left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard (50-J.Freeman).

1-10-MIN 42
(13:52) 62-N.Easton reported in as eligible. 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 44 for 2 yards (98-M.Unrein).

1-10-CHI 44
(12:46) 44-M.Asiata left guard to CHI 39 for 5 yards (74-J.Bullard).

1-10-MIN 25
(8:28) (Shotgun) 33-R.Hillman right guard to MIN 27 for 2 yards (96-A.Hicks)

1-10-
(5:19) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford pass incomplete short right to 14-S.Diggs.

1-10-MIN 32
(3:12) 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 39 for 7 yards (59-D.Trevathan; 29-H.Jones-Quartey).

1 pass and 5 super vanilla runs off the left or right guard.... LOL


Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:31 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
mondry wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
I honestly feel like I continually slam my head into a wall every time the offensive scheme comes into question: This team's personnel is not suited for Norv Turner's offense. It never has been, it never will be.

Our offense would be a perfect West Coast offense. Coincidentally enough, we have an assistant coach who used to run a West Coast: Pat Shurmur. Also, while I am at it, who was Shurmur's QB when he was an OC? Sam Bradford.

This offense has so much potential to be better. It is a shame it is held back by horrible offensive line play and questionable play calling.



Exactly.

Unfortunately, for this to come to fruition, the Vikes would have to continue to suck nuts on O the rest of the season. Might be worth it to get rid of Norv! If you played a drinking game where you had to imbibe every time he calls for a run on first down you'd be sloshed by the 4th series.



Every first down play of the first quarter for us, when game script and momentum should have very little effect on the play calling. Aka we're not down 20-3.

1-10-MIN 25
(15:00) 44-M.Asiata left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard (50-J.Freeman).

1-10-MIN 42
(13:52) 62-N.Easton reported in as eligible. 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 44 for 2 yards (98-M.Unrein).

1-10-CHI 44
(12:46) 44-M.Asiata left guard to CHI 39 for 5 yards (74-J.Bullard).

1-10-MIN 25
(8:28) (Shotgun) 33-R.Hillman right guard to MIN 27 for 2 yards (96-A.Hicks)

1-10-
(5:19) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford pass incomplete short right to 14-S.Diggs.

1-10-MIN 32
(3:12) 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 39 for 7 yards (59-D.Trevathan; 29-H.Jones-Quartey).

1 pass and 5 super vanilla runs off the left or right guard.... LOL


I'll tell you guys one thing, Matt Asiata is a legitimate bum. I havent been a fan for quite some time now, but when you mix bad run blocking with his running style, it's as gross as it gets. I sure hope Hillman learns this playbook fast. At least he has some speed and elusiveness to him. Asiata does nothing besides run into the back of our line, he hasn't made a guy miss in his career and he provides this offense with zero spark or big play ability. I would have no problem cutting the guy and signing someone off the street

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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
mondry wrote:
Every first down play of the first quarter for us, when game script and momentum should have very little effect on the play calling. Aka we're not down 20-3.

1-10-MIN 25
(15:00) 44-M.Asiata left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard (50-J.Freeman).

1-10-MIN 42
(13:52) 62-N.Easton reported in as eligible. 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 44 for 2 yards (98-M.Unrein).

1-10-CHI 44
(12:46) 44-M.Asiata left guard to CHI 39 for 5 yards (74-J.Bullard).

1-10-MIN 25
(8:28) (Shotgun) 33-R.Hillman right guard to MIN 27 for 2 yards (96-A.Hicks)

1-10-
(5:19) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford pass incomplete short right to 14-S.Diggs.

1-10-MIN 32
(3:12) 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 39 for 7 yards (59-D.Trevathan; 29-H.Jones-Quartey).

1 pass and 5 super vanilla runs off the left or right guard.... LOL


Just out of curiosity, what would you consider a non-vanilla run, other than a handoff to a wide receiver? Running out of the wildcat?


Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:58 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
mondry wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
I honestly feel like I continually slam my head into a wall every time the offensive scheme comes into question: This team's personnel is not suited for Norv Turner's offense. It never has been, it never will be.

Our offense would be a perfect West Coast offense. Coincidentally enough, we have an assistant coach who used to run a West Coast: Pat Shurmur. Also, while I am at it, who was Shurmur's QB when he was an OC? Sam Bradford.

This offense has so much potential to be better. It is a shame it is held back by horrible offensive line play and questionable play calling.



Exactly.

Unfortunately, for this to come to fruition, the Vikes would have to continue to suck nuts on O the rest of the season. Might be worth it to get rid of Norv! If you played a drinking game where you had to imbibe every time he calls for a run on first down you'd be sloshed by the 4th series.



Every first down play of the first quarter for us, when game script and momentum should have very little effect on the play calling. Aka we're not down 20-3.

1-10-MIN 25
(15:00) 44-M.Asiata left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard (50-J.Freeman).

1-10-MIN 42
(13:52) 62-N.Easton reported in as eligible. 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 44 for 2 yards (98-M.Unrein).

1-10-CHI 44
(12:46) 44-M.Asiata left guard to CHI 39 for 5 yards (74-J.Bullard).

1-10-MIN 25
(8:28) (Shotgun) 33-R.Hillman right guard to MIN 27 for 2 yards (96-A.Hicks)

1-10-
(5:19) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford pass incomplete short right to 14-S.Diggs.

1-10-MIN 32
(3:12) 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 39 for 7 yards (59-D.Trevathan; 29-H.Jones-Quartey).

1 pass and 5 super vanilla runs off the left or right guard.... LOL


Amen. :appl: I'll bet the Bears never saw any of it coming either. :wallbang:

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Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:37 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
when you have NO OL you have no choice. The buffoons we have up front are incapable of any complex blocking schemes, they cant even block for simple straight ahead runs. If you think our losses are due to poor play selection, you are delusional. We have NO OL. We cannot run any offense successfully until that is fixed. Get used to losing. We just lost to the WORST team in the league and the entire game the OL was a bunch of confused guys sliding backwards. Norv Turner is known for running a highly variable offense with lots of curve balls. He is fully aware that he is stuck on a team with a limited QB and an OL that MAYBE will provide 1 second of "protection" before the entire defensive line is in your backfield. What do you REALLY think he is going to gameplan?!?


Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:02 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Mothman wrote:
mondry wrote:
Every first down play of the first quarter for us, when game script and momentum should have very little effect on the play calling. Aka we're not down 20-3.

1-10-MIN 25
(15:00) 44-M.Asiata left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard (50-J.Freeman).

1-10-MIN 42
(13:52) 62-N.Easton reported in as eligible. 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 44 for 2 yards (98-M.Unrein).

1-10-CHI 44
(12:46) 44-M.Asiata left guard to CHI 39 for 5 yards (74-J.Bullard).

1-10-MIN 25
(8:28) (Shotgun) 33-R.Hillman right guard to MIN 27 for 2 yards (96-A.Hicks)

1-10-
(5:19) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford pass incomplete short right to 14-S.Diggs.

1-10-MIN 32
(3:12) 44-M.Asiata right guard to MIN 39 for 7 yards (59-D.Trevathan; 29-H.Jones-Quartey).

1 pass and 5 super vanilla runs off the left or right guard.... LOL


Just out of curiosity, what would you consider a non-vanilla run, other than a handoff to a wide receiver? Running out of the wildcat?


You asked this of Mondry, not me, but I think it's a good question. I hate the lack of creativity in our running game. By vanilla, I would mean that there are no pitches, no pulling guards, none of the smart counters that Cutler pulled successfully on us last night--on that play flipping it when he saw a huge running lane for his RB. Norv's MO is to stubbornly run right up the middle behind our horrendous O linemen. Who knows, maybe if we tried going wide or pulling our Gs we'd fare even worse, but I'd love to see some variety and creativity and less predictability.


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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Texas Vike wrote:
You asked this of Mondry, not me, but I think it's a good question. I hate the lack of creativity in our running game. By vanilla, I would mean that there are no pitches, no pulling guards, none of the smart counters that Cutler pulled successfully on us last night--on that play flipping it when he saw a huge running lane for his RB. Norv's MO is to stubbornly run right up the middle behind our horrendous O linemen. Who knows, maybe if we tried going wide or pulling our Gs we'd fare even worse, but I'd love to see some variety and creativity and less predictability.


I would too but I think those horrendous linemen are probably the main reason we don't see more variety.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:37 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
chicagopurple wrote:
What do you REALLY think he is going to gameplan?!?


Well lets see, just to name a few: You could game plan to run a hurry up offense when you're trailing by 3 scores late in the game. You could game plan to keep defenses guessing on what you will call on first down. You can game plan to run screens, or have McKinnon actually throw the ball from the cat. You could plan to throw the ball before third down when you're in the red zone, because you know you aren't going to run it. You could use some designed rollouts. You could plan to bench Rudolph the next time he goes out for 8 on a 3rd and 10.

I'm sure others can add to the list.

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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
worrying about your offense plays being too simple when your OL is a sick joke is like worrying about repositioning your sails when your hull is breeched.......


Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
chicagopurple wrote:
worrying about your offense plays being too simple when your OL is a sick joke is like worrying about repositioning your sails when your hull is breeched.......


Ignoring the fact that your offensive Captain has had worsening success for 3 straight years is likely to end in getting your hull breeched. :D

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Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
From SI.com:

Vikings OC Norv Turner running out of time to ignite lifeless offense after loss to Bears

Quote:
If the loss to Philadelphia did not make it obvious, Monday should have: Turner is working against a stacked deck, to be sure.

Sam Bradford is not suddenly going to become a Pro Bowl quarterback, because that’s not what he is. The offensive line might be able to improve incrementally by getting Jeremiah Sirles in the lineup—right tackle T.J. Clemmings couldn’t protect Bradford from the rain with an umbrella—but it’s not going to become dominant overnight. And at running back? Adrian Peterson is going to be gone for a while yet, but neither he nor Jerick McKinnon nor Matt Asiata has found room behind that maligned front anyway.

Personnel-wise, then, the Vikings are what they are to a large extent. Perhaps GM Rick Spielman swings a trade or two before Tuesday’s deadline, but he’s already down a 2017 first-round pick (sent out in the Bradford deal) and is tight against the cap.

In other words, there’s probably not much in the way of reserves on the way. So, if the Vikings are to get anything of value out of their offense this season, Turner will have to find a way to unlock whatever secrets are still hiding.


The author suggests cranking up the pace and going to an up-tempo as a one possible adjustment for the Vikes.

Quote:
The heat is squarely on Turner now. So much so, in fact, that the shelf life for this column might be brief. It would be a surprise if the Vikings sent Turner packing this week, but not an unforeseeable outcome.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:09 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Well I admit I thought you were a crackpot for posting this poll but it turns out you were just a genius 1 week ahead of his time!!!!


Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:54 pm
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Can I change my vote? :lol:

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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
chicagopurple wrote:
worrying about your offense plays being too simple when your OL is a sick joke is like worrying about repositioning your sails when your hull is breeched.......

That all depends on the position of the hull breech.

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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
VikingPaul73 wrote:
Well I admit I thought you were a crackpot for posting this poll but it turns out you were just a genius 1 week ahead of his time!!!!


Lol


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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Raptorman wrote:
Can I change my vote? :lol:

Sure haha


Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:47 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Just to add a conspiracy factor to all this. All the coachspeak and worship at that presser was a phenomenal acting job. I think they had a falling out on vision. Maybe on just plain coaching. I told you guys he was tired of norv sucking. Norv was gonna get fired so he resigned. And zim had a hand in it. Know the tell?

In his presser he says " i hope we can still remain friends". If turner actually approached him about leaving, why would zim say that? Leads me to believe it was the other way around


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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Boon wrote:
Just to add a conspiracy factor to all this. All the coachspeak and worship at that presser was a phenomenal acting job. I think they had a falling out on vision. Maybe on just plain coaching. I told you guys he was tired of norv sucking. Norv was gonna get fired so he resigned. And zim had a hand in it. Know the tell?

In his presser he says " i hope we can still remain friends". If turner actually approached him about leaving, why would zim say that? Leads me to believe it was the other way around


Clearly there was pressure on Norv whether Zimmer intentionally exerted it or not. His presser could have been a huge coverup to protect Norv from the damaging impact of being fired, but I don't think so. Norv was clearly miffed by Zimmer's suggestions about how to run the offense, and this could cause a rift in the friendship that Zimmer expressed concern about.

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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Purple Martin wrote:
Boon wrote:
Just to add a conspiracy factor to all this. All the coachspeak and worship at that presser was a phenomenal acting job. I think they had a falling out on vision. Maybe on just plain coaching. I told you guys he was tired of norv sucking. Norv was gonna get fired so he resigned. And zim had a hand in it. Know the tell?

In his presser he says " i hope we can still remain friends". If turner actually approached him about leaving, why would zim say that? Leads me to believe it was the other way around


Clearly there was pressure on Norv whether Zimmer intentionally exerted it or not. His presser could have been a huge coverup to protect Norv from the damaging impact of being fired, but I don't think so. Norv was clearly miffed by Zimmer's suggestions about how to run the offense, and this could cause a rift in the friendship that Zimmer expressed concern about.



That's my read too. I believe Zimmer has amped up the intensity and demands on Norv lately and that Norv didn't take too kindly to the criticism. He probably kept stating, "how do you want me to succeed with all of the injuries we've had and with this slapdash OL?" I can imagine Zim responding, "just do it!"

Wobby's interview of Kevin Seifert is worth a watch; I think Seifert typically has a pretty level-headed common sense read on this team:
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... 10a2560f14


Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:36 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Im going to vote no..... :whistle:


Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:28 am
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Post Re: Will turner remain OC vs Chicago (poll)
Texas Vike wrote:
Wobby's interview of Kevin Seifert is worth a watch; I think Seifert typically has a pretty level-headed common sense read on this team:
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... 10a2560f14


Agreed. Good interview.

Seifert always presents a well thought out case for his viewpoints. His thoughts about the impact of the injuries seems correct. Not that I don't think the Vikings were incorrectly utilizing some of their skill player talent but one cannot ignore the loss of important players.


Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:06 am
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