Thoughts on the crapfest

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halfgiz
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by halfgiz »

Vikings can better scheme pass protection, Mike Zimmer said. "I'd wish we'd done some things differently."

:tongue: Zimmer: BRob & Hunter you Boyz's are going to play Offensive Tackle this week.
Griffen & Johnson your the following week. :lol: :lol:
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VikingLord
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by VikingLord »

Based on what I saw I don't think there is any reason to be more concerned coming out of this last game than I was going into it to be honest.

Everyone knows the Vikings offensive line is struggling with injuries and consistency, and everyone has known that since the preseason. They largely did the same thing last year as well. So it isn't news.

What killed the Vikings yesterday more than anything were the *mistakes* they made. These mistakes seemed to plague them in all phases of the game to be honest:

- Sendejo makes a nice INT near the goal line, but instead of taking the ball to the outside and giving himself a chance to score, he inexplicably punches straight ahead and into the only Philly players with a chance to tackle him. He not only doesn't score, he gets injured to boot.
- The Vikings have 2 chances on offense to pick up a yard for a first down deep in Philly territory. Both attempts are identical with identical results - stuffed. Ball turns over on downs and the Vikes get no points.
- Zimmer tries to get a timeout called between said 2 plays so he can get a measurement. Officials don't see him/ignore him, so no timeout, no measurement, no first down, no points.
- Vikes get a great downed punt by Patterson on the Philly 2. Wentz is backed up and needs to worry about a safety, much less picking up a first down. He does what anyone with a brain in that situation would do and goes to a hard count hoping to get the defense to jump. Vikings oblige. Philly gets 5 free yards, breathing room, and goes on to pick up the first down and move the ball out of danger.
- Marcus Sherels just has to field a punt near the Vikings 40. He doesn't have to return it as the field position there is solid regardless. Ball bounces. He fields it and attempts to start running with it. Fumble. Arg...
- Philly has the ball in Minnesota territory. It's 4th and short. Does the Viking defense step up and slam the gate? Nope. Philly gets the 1st they need and goes on to score their only TD of the game IIRC.

There are many more examples of a team that had played largely mistake-free football up to yesterday that seemingly became intent on making up for that lost time. They did, they lost, it sucks, and they'll move on.

This is still the same team it was coming into the Philly game. It has the same glaring flaws and core strengths. Nothing really has changed except perhaps the offensive linemen and the coaches are going to go back to the drawing board to see if they can do anything different to compensate for the most obvious of the weaknesses on display. But I still expect this team to go on to win the next two games and finish with 11-12 wins and then get whacked in the playoffs because they'll either run into a team that is just too strong up front for them to compensate for on offense or simply because they're the Vikings and that's what they do, whichever comes first.

I'm still very optimistic about the team's long-term chances. Spielman will have his work cut out for him on the offensive line for sure, but the team should remain on an upward trajectory overall and if by some miracle they can solidify the offensive line either this season or next, it is a team that is worthy of being in the Superbowl conversation.
UKno1VIKING
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by UKno1VIKING »

halfgiz wrote:Vikings can better scheme pass protection, Mike Zimmer said. "I'd wish we'd done some things differently."

:tongue: Zimmer: BRob & Hunter you Boyz's are going to play Offensive Tackle this week.
Griffen & Johnson your the following week. :lol: :lol:
Joking aside, has there ever been a time where a lineman's played both ways? Surely learning how to beat the other side, means you are somewhat learned to ply their trade?

Yep it's got that bad.
mansquatch
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by mansquatch »

Jim Vikinglord's post sums up my view on the matter. They made many uncharacteristic mistakes in the game on Sunday. Philly didn't expose anything that wasn't already known. The OL played worse than they have played in recent weeks and low and behold we got stomped.

As I said before, this game reminds me of the debacle in SF in 2015.

The bottom line is can the coaches get it fixed. I think ST and DEF will get back to form. The OL is the question mark which it has been all season.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
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Raptorman
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by Raptorman »

We all knew they would lose a game. In this one they made so many mistakes it was hard to watch. Thing is, this is a team that won't make those mistakes in the future. I hope.

Some days chicken salad, some days chicken crap. Sunday was a chicken crap day for the Vikings.
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Mothman
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by Mothman »

mansquatch wrote:Jim Vikinglord's post sums up my view on the matter. They made many uncharacteristic mistakes in the game on Sunday. Philly didn't expose anything that wasn't already known. The OL played worse than they have played in recent weeks and low and behold we got stomped.
I don't think anybody is suggesting a new, previously unseen weakness on the team was exposed, are they? Quite the opposite: an obvious weakness some of us felt could start to cost the team games was exploited and they were soundly defeated. The uncharacteristic mistakes were a contributing factor but as some writers and fans have been saying for weeks, the way the Vikes were winning was probably unsustainable. The law of averages suggested those mistakes were going to show up at some point. Now, how often will they show up the rest of the way? How many more teams will successfully exploit the Vikes glaring weakness?
As I said before, this game reminds me of the debacle in SF in 2015.
Unfortunately, it reminds me of several games from 2015. :(
The bottom line is can the coaches get it fixed. I think ST and DEF will get back to form. The OL is the question mark which it has been all season.
I think it's unlikely they'll get it fixed this season but maybe they can successfully work around it more often than not, as they did in the first 5 games.
mansquatch
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by mansquatch »

Ironically this mess underscores why the team needs Kalil. Talk about being lucky. He is an average at best Tackle but is surrounded by low ceiling talent and thus constantly gets paid.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
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chicagopurple
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by chicagopurple »

bottom line.....this team cannot compete with any team that has a good pass rush. We will beat the weak sisters but we have NO offense when facing a real pass rush and in that situation, we don't have a high output Offense to get into a high scoring game.....this game was a reality check for those uninformed fans who have been drinking purple Kool-Aid for 5 weeks. The OL MUST be addressed. Till then we are just spinning our wheels.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by Mothman »

This AP article had a few items of interest:

http://www.foxsports.com/north/story/bo ... ngs-102416
Bradford took six sacks and was hit 12 times by his former team that used insider knowledge toward a crafty strategy by defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz that called for a well-disguised series of blitzes out of zone coverages.

"Now Sam is throwing into a defense where people are looking at him and have people have eyes on the football," Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins said. "It's a little tougher to see where those are coming from."

Jenkins cited experience facing Bradford in practice last year and training camp this summer in concluding he prefers to throw to the outside of the field when the rush comes. Taking advantage of injury replacements for the Vikings at both tackle spots, the Eagles applied plenty of pressure off the ends of the formation. Schwartz drew raves from his players afterward about the game plan.
The book on beating the Vikings this year was always going to be building a healthy lead in the first half, minimizing turnovers against their dominant defense and overwhelming the offensive line with a pass rush that knocks Bradford out of rhythm. Thanks to the Eagles, that book became a best-seller on Sunday.

The defense forced four turnovers and allowed only 239 yards, and the Vikings still lost by 11 points.

"We're trying to figure out everything right now," Zimmer said, promising changes this week without specifying whether he meant the lineup, the game plan, the practice routine or all of the above. "This is a gut-check day."
TSonn
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by TSonn »

I finally got around to watching the game because I was on a plane so in couldn't see any of this mess. Didn't realize how windy it was on Sunday! The team played like they used to play on the road outside when we lost like 19 in a row over 3-4 seasons.

The OLine was horrendous but Bradford missed a few passes in the first half which could have really changed the game. Maybe it was the wind? Also nice to see CP84 get some touches at the end - maybe that last little burst with him and Bradford can get some chemistry going forward.

I wonder if Teddy would have played better than Sam. Although a few of those negative plays weren't Sam's fault, I think Teddy would have made something positive out of them like we saw a decent amount the past couple years. Sam has definitely won us a few games this year that Teddy most likely wouldn't have won (with his 2015 production) but I think this was a game where Teddy might have won it over Sam with his escaping and running ability.
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VikingLord
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by VikingLord »

chicagopurple wrote:bottom line.....this team cannot compete with any team that has a good pass rush. We will beat the weak sisters but we have NO offense when facing a real pass rush and in that situation, we don't have a high output Offense to get into a high scoring game.....this game was a reality check for those uninformed fans who have been drinking purple Kool-Aid for 5 weeks. The OL MUST be addressed. Till then we are just spinning our wheels.
The Eagles blitzed as much against the Vikings as they have all season against any other team, so while they have a decent pass rush, they succeeded more due to the relentless pressure and confusion that caused more than by necessarily manhandling the Vikings offense line per se. Plus, I don't think the Vikings did a whole heck of a lot to adjust to that, probably believing that Philly would either relent with the pressure at some point and/or get burned bring it, neither of which happened.

That action of Philly showing so many blitzes will produce an equal and opposite reaction of the Vikings adjusting to any team that tries the same, so while others may try it I suspect they'll find a lot less success with it and, if Norv knows what he's doing, he'll design in some nice surprises to pop out that will increase the chances of the Vikings burning teams that bring so much heat.

While I agree with you that a team with a very good pass rush is likely to cause problems, that would be true for any team in the league and not just the Vikings. I disagree with you that a fan has to be on the Purple Kool-Aid and be uninformed to have believed in this team prior to, or post, the game against the Eagles, however. The offensive line isn't as bad as they looked against the Eagles, nor are the Eagles going to get away with bringing that kind of blitz pressure so regularly should they try it against other teams. It was one game where the Eagles looked better than they are, the Vikings looked worse than they are, and neither team is likely to repeat a performance like that again this season.

The offensive line has to be addressed of course, but I am of the opinion this group can and will get better yet this season. Let's see how they're playing come December and decide then if the season should be written off.
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by Raptorman »

Interesting article.
Despite the fact that the Vikings lost and the overall ugliness of their offense, I believe that this season has a lot of promise for them, even more than the victorious Eagles.
http://theundefeated.com/features/minne ... it-looked/
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purpletinted66
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by purpletinted66 »

we are just 1-6 in the last 7 years in games after the bye week :?
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by 5thWave »

Raptorman wrote:Interesting article.
http://theundefeated.com/features/minne ... it-looked/
Thanks so much for the share! I'm going to keep on looking for Dominic Foxworth's articles...he really brings a detailed analysis. I was especially encouraged by his analysis of Bradford's choices during the game.
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chicagopurple
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Re: Thoughts on the crapfest

Post by chicagopurple »

coaching adjustments cannot create speed, strength and body mass in an offensive lineman. The building blocks just aren't there. Its pretty sad when your greatest chance for improvement would be the return of Kalil....
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