Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

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Jordysghost
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:00 pm

fiestavike wrote: its not a conspiracy, its just common sense.
Right, and while I do believe you truly want to believe that, im wondering why Clay and Pep never got the memo.

I guess the MLB is also in on the common sense, given that a few of their players mentioned have been interviewed and cleared as well.

The dude who made the statements said they were inaccurate, every single player mentioned that complied has been interviewed and cleared, common sense is right.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:21 pm

Jordysghost wrote: Lol, riiiiigghhtt, now this is all the NFL's conspiracy to clear the players names unjustly, you think they could have had someone tell Clay and Pep that before they took it down to the wire with suspensions on the line.
So again; what does the NFL have to gain by doing this?

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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:23 pm

Cliff wrote: So again; what does the NFL have to gain by doing this?

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I never stated the NFL was going through with this investigation for some profit of their own, but to answer your question, so that nobody can say they turned a blind eye to PED allegations, unfounded and unsubstantial they may be.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by fiestavike » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:29 pm

Jordysghost wrote:
Right, and while I do believe you truly want to believe that, im wondering why Clay and Pep never got the memo.

I guess the MLB is also in on the common sense, given that a few of their players mentioned have been interviewed and cleared as well.

The dude who made the statements said they were inaccurate, every single player mentioned that complied has been interviewed and cleared, common sense is right.
I don't even understand th realation between most of what you are saying and what I'm saying except that perhaps you are imagining vulnerabilities in your argument and trying to get ahead of them. I honestly don't know, but they have nothing to do with what I've said.

Simple question: Do you really believe the NFL wants to see Clay Mathews, let alone PEYTON MANNING caught up in a PED scandal?
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:32 pm

Jordysghost wrote: I never stated the NFL was going through with this investigation for some profit of their own, but to answer your question, so that nobody can say they turned a blind eye to PED allegations, unfounded and unsubstantial they may be.
So ... remind me how that's bad and why players shouldn't comply when there's an allegation of this magnitude?

This is a major story that came out. It really doesn't matter what you think about the evidence or how legit it is. It's there, it was popularized, and there's absolutely no way it'll just go away on its own.

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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:38 pm

fiestavike wrote: I don't even understand th realation between most of what you are saying and what I'm saying except that perhaps you are imagining vulnerabilities in your argument and trying to get ahead of them. I honestly don't know, but they have nothing to do with what I've said.

Simple question: Do you really believe the NFL wants to see Clay Mathews, let alone PEYTON MANNING caught up in a PED scandal?
What in my previous post could possibly 'Not understand the relation between what we are both saying'?

Do I think the NFL straight up WANTS those players to be caught up in PED usage? No, but I don't think they would WANT them to be implicated and subject to an investigation based upon a self disgraced article either, but it happened.

By your logic im curious as to why the NFL didn't just write off the article, and also why Clay, Pep and the entire NFLPA didn't get the memo that the NFL had their back the whole time and wanted only to clear them.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:45 pm

Cliff wrote: So ... remind me how that's bad and why players shouldn't comply when there's an allegation of this magnitude?

This is a major story that came out. It really doesn't matter what you think about the evidence or how legit it is. It's there, it was popularized, and there's absolutely no way it'll just go away on its own.

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It is bad because in the eyes of the NFLPA it sets the precedent that players have to submit to an investigation regardless of the evidence, or lackthereof, in question.

Your claiming that evidence doesn't matter? Really? Should you be subject to unlawful search and/or seizure regardless of evidence simply because 'There is no way it will go away on its own'?
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:05 pm

Jordysghost wrote: It is bad because in the eyes of the NFLPA it sets the precedent that players have to submit to an investigation regardless of the evidence, or lackthereof, in question.

Your claiming that evidence doesn't matter? Really? Should you be subject to unlawful search and/or seizure regardless of evidence simply because 'There is no way it will go away on its own'?
No, I didn't say the evidence doesn't matter. I said what *you* as an individual thinks about it doesn't matter.

With the level of evidence presented they think it's woth a look. The fact that the guy took back what he said doesn't change it being evidence.

Re: 'the NFLPA doesn't want to set a precedent'. What does that matter? The NFLPA doesn't have the power to do that anyway, obviously.

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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:17 pm

Cliff wrote: No, I didn't say the evidence doesn't matter. I said what *you* as an individual thinks about it doesn't matter.

With the level of evidence presented they think it's woth a look. The fact that the guy took back what he said doesn't change it being evidence.

Re: 'the NFLPA doesn't want to set a precedent'. What does that matter? The NFLPA doesn't have the power to do that anyway, obviously.

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Well yea, obviously some random #### fans opinion on the matter doesn't matter, but I never claimed it did, so im not really sure how that is relevant.

I think you misunderstood me, the NFLPA did not want the NFL to set the precedent that players can be investigated based off what they feel to be an unsubstantiated, and unfounded basis. By giving into the NFL's demands they do exactly that, the NFLPA still is not down with the investigation, but fortunately for my sanity it isn't just their choice, and there are multiple NFL players who want to avoid suspension.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:34 pm

So we agree then. Your opinion as to if they have enough evidence doesn't matter. The people whose opinion do matter think it's enough evidence.

Even if I agree they only care so they can say they tried and sweep it under the rug. I'm not saying the llayers are guilty, just that I expect the same result regardless.

I guess that's why this whole pretending to put up a fight thing is silly. The NFLPA never had the power to do anything anyway. It's all moot.

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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:43 pm

Cliff wrote:So we agree then. Your opinion as to if they have enough evidence doesn't matter. The people whose opinion do matter think it's enough evidence.

Even if I agree they only care so they can say they tried and sweep it under the rug. I'm not saying the llayers are guilty, just that I expect the same result regardless.

I guess that's why this whole pretending to put up a fight thing is silly. The NFLPA never had the power to do anything anyway. It's all moot.

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Yea, my opinion doesn't matter, though I share my opinion with NFLPA, whos opinion to a certain extent, does matter, which leads me to my next point.

The NFLPA certainly doesn't have all the power, but as the union representing the majority of the leagues employee they DO have some power, and that is the entire issue of this discussion, the NFLPA did not believe that there players should submit to an investigation based up what they feel to be unsubstantiated and unfounded claims, they were and still likely are concerned about the consequences from that precedent being set.

In principle I agree with the NFLPA, but I am happy the league threatened suspension being that that is what it took to get Clay and Pep to cooperate with the NFL's demands, which is in my opinion, in the team they play fors best interest.

I don't agree the NFL is doing this just to sweep it under the rug and say the tried, I think there would be easier courses of action had that been the case, this entire situation has been like pulling teeth.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:09 pm

In this situation the NFLPA had no power and they had to have known it. Going this far was delaying the inevitable.

We disagree and that's fine. I'm over the topic though. I know how this is going to go down. Everyone does. The NFL literally has to have video of a player doing something before they take action.

It boils down to us arguing semantics about whether an investigation is warrented and I think we're out of things to say at this point.


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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Cliff wrote:In this situation the NFLPA had no power and they had to have known it. Going this far was delaying the inevitable.

We disagree and that's fine. I'm over the topic though. I know how this is going to go down. Everyone does. The NFL literally has to have video of a player doing something before they take action.

It boils down to us arguing semantics about whether an investigation is warrented and I think we're out of things to say at this point.


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Idk why you think the NFLPA had no power, they are the players union after all..
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:15 pm

Pulling me back in ;)

Could they stop the NFL from suspending? What action did they take? What action could they have taken?

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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:34 pm

Cliff wrote:Pulling me back in ;)

Could they stop the NFL from suspending? What action did they take? What action could they have taken?

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They encouraged their players not to comply with the investigation, thank goodness it isn't only there choice and Clay and Pep would rather avoid suspension then fight for the NFLPA's beliefs.

They didn't do much, they couldn't do much, but they did what they could, I don't think that equates to being powerless however, they are the union representing the most important part of the league. I don't think they did what they did just for the #### of it.
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