Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

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Cliff
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:29 pm

What does the NFLPA have at stake exactly? If someone does another investigation and publishes the findings then some players may need to answer questions?

It's not like they're using the comments section of an article on NFL.com to make the decision to investigate.

Also, are the players not allowed to participate without NFLPA concent? I wasn't aware of that.

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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:36 pm

Cliff wrote:What does the NFLPA have at stake exactly? If someone does another investigation and publishes the findings then some players may need to answer questions?

It's not like they're using the comments section of an article on NFL.com to make the decision to investigate.

Also, are the players not allowed to participate without NFLPA concent? I wasn't aware of that.

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The NFLPA does not want to set a precedent that players can be subjected to investigation based upon self disgraced and recanted comments, Peyton being cleared only strengthens the idea that this investigation is unfounded, again, to be very clear, the NFLPA does not want to set the precedent that the players can be subjected to investigation based upon self disgraced and recanted comments.

Players can act upon their own volition should they want to, but if they are members of the NFLPA and agree with the NFLPA's stance, why should they?

I can think of one reason, and it is the same reason I think they are going to give in at some point, to dodge suspension, but i don't think it is something they agree with.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:18 pm

I'm still not sure how you 'recant' something you never meant for anyone else to hear. You can't 'recant' a statement you made while under police survalance, for example.

It wasn't a statement made to a reporter that he's now trying to take back. Of course he wants to take it back now, it's brought him a ton of heat and likely ruined his career.

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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:29 pm

Cliff wrote:I'm still not sure how you 'recant' something you never meant for anyone else to hear. You can't 'recant' a statement you made while under police survalance, for example.

It wasn't a statement made to a reporter that he's now trying to take back. Of course he wants to take it back now, it's brought him a ton of heat and likely ruined his career.

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That is your perception, but not everybodys.

I don't think this 'ruined his career' by any means, but I think lying in defense of roiding players that are under investigation could probably negatively affect his career greatly, I don't think that is the case though, why did he name Peyton Manning?
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:45 am

Jordysghost wrote: That is your perception, but not everybodys.

I don't think this 'ruined his career' by any means, but I think lying in defense of roiding players that are under investigation could probably negatively affect his career greatly, I don't think that is the case though, why did he name Peyton Manning?
What do you mean that's my perception? You can't "recant" something you were busted saying. That's not how it works. Recant means you've changed your mind about an opinion or belief you held. He stated something as a fact and when the thing he stated came out he backpedaled and said he was lying about it in order to "test" someone.

If you don't think there should be an investigation that's fine but saying it shouldn't happen because this guy 'recanted' is nonsense.

So, if you were an professional athlete, you would work with this guy knowing he named several people using HGH? Lying or not? I bet that would do wonders for your public image. Let's say there is no investigation and it's all just pushed to the side/swept under the rug. The players named are always going to have 'questions' surrounding them in the minds of fans. Would you really be willing to take that risk? I wouldn't.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:40 am

Cliff wrote: What do you mean that's my perception? You can't "recant" something you were busted saying. That's not how it works. Recant means you've changed your mind about an opinion or belief you held. He stated something as a fact and when the thing he stated came out he backpedaled and said he was lying about it in order to "test" someone.

If you don't think there should be an investigation that's fine but saying it shouldn't happen because this guy 'recanted' is nonsense.

So, if you were an professional athlete, you would work with this guy knowing he named several people using HGH? Lying or not? I bet that would do wonders for your public image. Let's say there is no investigation and it's all just pushed to the side/swept under the rug. The players named are always going to have 'questions' surrounding them in the minds of fans. Would you really be willing to take that risk? I wouldn't.
You can recant anything that came out of your mouth.

Once again, I think the consequences of lying in defense of players currently under investigation after making the comments he did are much greater then any soreness a player might feel in regards to his comments,, I don't think recanting and defending the same names he dropped that are currently under investigation serves much of a purpose or would help him much anyway.

Once again, if these comments were justly based in reality why was Manning cleared?
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:48 am

Jordysghost wrote:You can recant anything that came out of your mouth.
Tell that to a defendant who is on tape talking about a drug deal.
Once again, I think the consequences of lying in defense of players currently under investigation after making the comments he did are much greater then any soreness a player might feel in regards to his comments,, I don't think recanting and defending the same names he dropped that are currently under investigation serves much of a purpose or would help him much anyway.
See, now *that* is a perception. You're giving you opinion (as I did) about what I think it means to his career.
Once again, if these comments were justly based in reality why was Manning cleared?
Guilty people are cleared of crimes all the time ... being cleared doesn't always mean you were innocent, it just means they couldn't prove you were guilty.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:39 pm

Cliff wrote: Tell that to a defendant who is on tape talking about a drug deal.
See, now *that* is a perception. You're giving you opinion (as I did) about what I think it means to his career.
Guilty people are cleared of crimes all the time ... being cleared doesn't always mean you were innocent, it just means they couldn't prove you were guilty.
But if its that easy for a guilty man to be cleared in this situation, why even bother with the investigation? If it is that simple, what is even the point? Your basing an investigation upon a retracted statement that didn't even hold the slightest bit of water in regards to one of the biggest names on the list.

Nothing about this investigation hold any water at all, your going to interview one player to no avail, and then just write it off as 'Oh well just because he was cleared doesn't mean he was innocent'? :roll: This is exactly the kind of attitude the NFLPA is trying to counter, your essentially saying the investigation is warranted because 'it just is.'

In any event, Clay and J Pep have submitted to the NFLs demands. http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports ... /88961554/
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:15 am

Jordysghost wrote:But if its that easy for a guilty man to be cleared in this situation, why even bother with the investigation? If it is that simple, what is even the point? Your basing an investigation upon a retracted statement that didn't even hold the slightest bit of water in regards to one of the biggest names on the list.
I'm assuming that the evidence won't be exactly the same for all parties involved. They would have made contact at different times, there would potentially be different sets of witnesses, etc, etc.
"Nothing about this investigation hold any water at all, your going to interview one player to no avail, and then just write it off as 'Oh well just because he was cleared doesn't mean he was innocent'? :roll: This is exactly the kind of attitude the NFLPA is trying to counter, your essentially saying the investigation is warranted because 'it just is.'
I don't know if he was innocent or guilty. If they weren't able to find evidence for Manning that means for all intents and purposes he's innocent. I wasn't saying that Manning was guilty in this case, just that being ruled innocent doesn't mean you necessarily were ...

Plus, Manning being cleared has nothing to do with the other players. It's not like they all would have gone as a group.

I'm saying an investigation is warranted because an undercover investigation suggested that several NFL players are using illegal performance enhancing drugs ...
In any event, Clay and J Pep have submitted to the NFLs demands. http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports ... /88961554/
That's their best course of action in my opinion. It's the only way it's going to be put behind them either way. Not responding to the documentary was impossible unless they wanted to be seen as cheaters. In my opinion the investigation is probably a good thing for the players overall. It's likely that there is no real concrete evidence so they'll be cleared and it'll be put to bed, but that's just my perception ;)
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:07 am

Your damn straight there is no real or clear evidence in this situation, which is exactly why the NFLPA didn't want their players submitting to investigation. To me, in a situation like that, there is nothing to 'suggest' that several NFL players were using or taking PEDs.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Cliff » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:23 pm

Jordysghost wrote:Your damn straight there is no real or clear evidence in this situation, which is exactly why the NFLPA didn't want their players submitting to investigation. To me, in a situation like that, there is nothing to 'suggest' that several NFL players were using or taking PEDs.
There is a recording of a guy admitting he helped these players get HGH and it had enough weight to produce an hour long documentary. So "nothing to suggest" is wrong. You may not find it a reason to investigate, but that's just your perspective and not everyone feels that way :)

By the way ... how exactly do you think this benefits the NFL? What is their motive for investigating the players?
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:34 pm

Cliff wrote: There is a recording of a guy admitting he helped these players get HGH and it had enough weight to produce an hour long documentary. So "nothing to suggest" is wrong. You may not find it a reason to investigate, but that's just your perspective and not everyone feels that way :)

By the way ... how exactly do you think this benefits the NFL? What is their motive for investigating the players?
And that statement has already been put to the test on one player to no avail. :confused:

I don't think the NFL is doing this for some benefit of their own and never said nor implied such a thing, so I don't really understand how that question is relevant.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by fiestavike » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:42 pm

Cliff wrote:
By the way ... how exactly do you think this benefits the NFL? What is their motive for investigating the players?
to clear them and move on, because this is bad for business, and the perception that they might be caught up in this is bad for business. Meet the players, clear them, write off the report, and move on.

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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by Jordysghost » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:44 pm

fiestavike wrote: to clear them and move on, because this is bad for business, and the perception that they might be caught up in this is bad for business. Meet the players, clear them, write off the report, and move on.
Lol, riiiiigghhtt, now this is all the NFL's conspiracy to clear the players names unjustly, you think they could have had someone tell Clay and Pep that before they took it down to the wire with suspensions on the line.
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Re: Three Packers Linebackers named in Steroids Article

Post by fiestavike » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:56 pm

Jordysghost wrote: Lol, riiiiigghhtt, now this is all the NFL's conspiracy to clear the players names unjustly, you think they could have had someone tell Clay and Pep that before they took it down to the wire with suspensions on the line.
its not a conspiracy, its just common sense.

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