2016 draft: Receivers

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fiestavike
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by fiestavike » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:24 am

Watching more Treadwell, he is growing on me. He's not as explosive at Doctson but he does a great job of making catches in traffic and high pointing the ball. Great athleticism doesn't always translate to being a better player. If both were on the board at 23, I'd be torn.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by Texas Vike » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:36 am

dead_poet wrote:
Huh?

In 2015 he played in all 14 games and had 86 receptions for 1,288 yards and 11 touchdowns.

That's poor?

:lol: I can tell you're used to watching Big 10 ball! Doctson put up bigger numbers playing 2/3 of the season this year. Coleman had 20 TDs! It is all relative.

Even so, I didn't realize Shepard's numbers were so good for 2015. They certainly weren't poor. I saw a highlights video that showed only 51 receptions for two years in a row and less than a 1000 yards. The video must have been from after his 2014 season. I watched Shepard in 4 or so OU games this year. He didn't jump off the screen like some of the other WRs on the field in the Big 12.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by HardcoreVikesFan » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:31 am

Texas Vike wrote:
:lol: I can tell you're used to watching Big 10 ball! Doctson put up bigger numbers playing 2/3 of the season this year. Coleman had 20 TDs! It is all relative.

Even so, I didn't realize Shepard's numbers were so good for 2015. They certainly weren't poor. I saw a highlights video that showed only 51 receptions for two years in a row and less than a 1000 yards. The video must have been from after his 2014 season. I watched Shepard in 4 or so OU games this year. He didn't jump off the screen like some of the other WRs on the field in the Big 12.
Texas Viking - I was going to respond to you in the FA thread, but I felt a response here was more appropriate.

To me, Corey Coleman is the BEST receiver in this draft. He has the speed, athleticism, and production. I know a lot of his production came against inferior defenses, but, his best game of the season, in my opinion, was probably the game against Ok. State. He only had 5 catches and 77 yards, but he also added 21 rushing yards on three carries. He showed during that game he could make the tough catches against a top defensive team. I have a personal anecdote about Coleman too, but, I believe that it would incorrect for me to share it at this time.

If this team really values analytics and athleticism, to me, Coleman will be the wide receiver taken at 23 (if they are indeed intending to draft a receiver). I am not sure what his SPARQ score was, but it should be high. I know this team values the SPARQ score come draft day.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by Texas Vike » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:16 am

HardcoreVikesFan wrote: Texas Viking - I was going to respond to you in the FA thread, but I felt a response here was more appropriate.

To me, Corey Coleman is the BEST receiver in this draft. He has the speed, athleticism, and production. I know a lot of his production came against inferior defenses, but, his best game of the season, in my opinion, was probably the game against Ok. State. He only had 5 catches and 77 yards, but he also added 21 rushing yards on three carries. He showed during that game he could make the tough catches against a top defensive team. I have a personal anecdote about Coleman too, but, I believe that it would incorrect for me to share it at this time.

If this team really values analytics and athleticism, to me, Coleman will be the wide receiver taken at 23 (if they are indeed intending to draft a receiver). I am not sure what his SPARQ score was, but it should be high. I know this team values the SPARQ score come draft day.
Interesting to hear from a Coleman backer. The kid's put up crazy numbers and I know from watching him that he is more talented than previous Baylor WRs. But apropos of SPARQ scores, it looks like Doctson is the highest rated WR this year:
Excluding approximate results, the top 5 Combine WR SPARQ results belonged to Josh Doctson, Devon Cajuste, Chris Moore, Marquez North, and Trevor Davis.
But there is this, so you might end up being right:
Corey Coleman day will have to wait until the Baylor pro day. I have not lost the faith.
The rankings can be found here:
http://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/wr/

Lastly, when I hear complaints about Big 12 defenses being inferior (especially when it's an SEC fan) I like to remind folks of what TCU did to Ole Miss in the Peach Bowl last year (42-3; Doctson had 2 TDs). Ole Miss had been the number 1 D for points allowed going into the game.
Last edited by Texas Vike on Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by fiestavike » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:40 pm

Excluding approximate results, the top 5 Combine WR SPARQ results belonged to Josh Doctson, Devon Cajuste, Chris Moore, Marquez North, and Trevor Davis.
Cajuste interests me. He was faster than I thought he might be, and has some characteristics that could be valuable.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by dead_poet » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:42 pm

I'm told former #TCU WR Josh Doctson has workouts and/or visits scheduled with the #Vikings, #Browns and #Bengals.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by jackal » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:34 pm

Treadwell Fuller, Coleman are few wideouts worth a first round pick, IMO

Doctson I am not really sold on, I don't know why ?

second-third round guys I like are Boyd and Shepard

a later pick I favor is Lewis
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by Jordysghost » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:30 pm

WR are a dime a dozen, if you go with one in the first round, you better hope he is something special.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by fiestavike » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:17 pm

Jordysghost wrote:WR are a dime a dozen, if you go with one in the first round, you better hope he is something special.
I'm surprised you would say that after the season the Packers had in 2015. It seemed like their lack of depth at WR really hurt them.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by Texas Vike » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:27 pm

fiestavike wrote: I'm surprised you would say that after the season the Packers had in 2015. It seemed like their lack of depth at WR really hurt them.

Furthermore, the Pack has done well consistently drafting WRs in the early rounds (especially the 2nd). Over the last decade they made a genuine commitment to drafting the position and it showed on the field.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by Jordysghost » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:50 pm

fiestavike wrote: I'm surprised you would say that after the season the Packers had in 2015. It seemed like their lack of depth at WR really hurt them.
No, our massive pile of injuries to the WR core hurt us.

Jordy was out for the year, Cobb missed significant time and played all year with a joint ac sprain Adams missed significant time and played most the year on an ankle injury, Montgomery missed nearly the entire year on an injury, that is our starting FOUR WRs, what the hell us would have happened? What team can survive losing their four top WRs? (This is ignoring our O line injuries coumpounding onto this problem)

If you think the Packers depth at WR is lacking you are going to be sorely dissapointed, do you remember that herculean effort by the Packers WRs at the end of the divisional playoff game? You realize that was with our 5th and 6th WRs taking up the role of number 1 and number 2 on account of injury, we were litterally that thin, Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, all out.

Im not trying to be confrontational but I seriously doubt your entire healthy stable of WRs could do against the Cards secondary what our 5th and 6th WR did when thrust into starter role.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by Jordysghost » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:53 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Furthermore, the Pack has done well consistently drafting WRs in the early rounds (especially the 2nd). Over the last decade they made a genuine commitment to drafting the position and it showed on the field.
Which further supports my statement that WRs are a dime a dozen.

Im not opposed to a first round pick at WR, but he has to have a special kind of skill set that doesn't come along all to often. You can find quality WRs anywhere in the draft on a rather consistent basis, the same cant be said about the big guys.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by dead_poet » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:20 pm

Jordysghost wrote:Which further supports my statement that WRs are a dime a dozen.

Im not opposed to a first round pick at WR, but he has to have a special kind of skill set that doesn't come along all to often. You can find quality WRs anywhere in the draft on a rather consistent basis
I'm not sure there's enough data there to make that sweeping generalization. Take a look at the link below where it's pretty clear you "hit" or have better productive value on WRs higher in the draft (rounds 1 (back half), 2, 3 and to an extent 7th as well). Rounds 4, 5, & 6 are particularly terrible). If you're talking "hit rate" in general, your odds go down the further you go in the draft (unsurprisingly). There's a pretty big jump down in all positions (receivers in particular) after round 2.
After the first 40 or so selections of the draft’s third day, the offensive skill position players are just about equivalent to priority undrafted free agents.
http://3sigmaathlete.com/2015/03/31/pos ... -drafting/

It's a fun read in general if you're a draft stats/numbers guy regarding positions-based value drafting.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by fiestavike » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:58 pm

Jordysghost wrote: No, our massive pile of injuries to the WR core hurt us.

Jordy was out for the year, Cobb missed significant time and played all year with a joint ac sprain Adams missed significant time and played most the year on an ankle injury, Montgomery missed nearly the entire year on an injury, that is our starting FOUR WRs, what the hell us would have happened? What team can survive losing their four top WRs? (This is ignoring our O line injuries coumpounding onto this problem)

If you think the Packers depth at WR is lacking you are going to be sorely dissapointed, do you remember that herculean effort by the Packers WRs at the end of the divisional playoff game? You realize that was with our 5th and 6th WRs taking up the role of number 1 and number 2 on account of injury, we were litterally that thin, Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, all out.

Im not trying to be confrontational but I seriously doubt your entire healthy stable of WRs could do against the Cards secondary what our 5th and 6th WR did when thrust into starter role.
I must have misunderstood. I agree injuries hurt the Packers. That's what I was saying. Especially to Jordy Nelson. I think the drop off after him is pretty massive, although Adams and Montgomery could improve, I don't find either one scary at this point. That's why I thought it was odd to say that WRs are a dime a dozen. There seemed to be a steep drop off with the loss of nelson.
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Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Post by Jordysghost » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:42 am

fiestavike wrote: I must have misunderstood. I agree injuries hurt the Packers. That's what I was saying. Especially to Jordy Nelson. I think the drop off after him is pretty massive, although Adams and Montgomery could improve, I don't find either one scary at this point. That's why I thought it was odd to say that WRs are a dime a dozen. There seemed to be a steep drop off with the loss of nelson.
I think that is more a product of Nelson being one of the better WRs in the league then anything, I mean, most teams with a player like Jordy don't have a guy on the same level on the other side.

I think it is far to early to judge Montgomery, he was a rookie and missed most of the year after showing encouraging potential. Adams is so up and down he could go any which way at this point.. but I don't think you have much to worry about there, jmo..

Alot of Packers fans are really, really hoping for Janis and Abbredairis to give us more of what they gave us in the divisional round as the top two guys, honestly, when it comes to Janis that was the most encouraging performance of any young player of the Packers in recent memory, I mean, he took Patrick Peterson to the #### woodshed in the 4th quarter of that playoff game in AZ. He has every physical tool you want, had a great preseason last year, but the Packers caught alot of heat from the fans for not getting him more snaps in the regular season last year, McCarthy seems adamant on reversing that so we will see, but really, if there was any young WR on the roster worthy of concern, it is him.

In my opinion, you got to get the big guys early if possible, It is significantly more difficult to find quality linemen then WRs, and really the 'skill positions' in general.
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