Have To Admit

This is where threads go to die. If you want to talk Smack or get out of hand, this is where your post will end up. All Smack talk will be moved here with no shadow links left in the original forum!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Purple bruise
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Purple bruise » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:33 pm

Gruden won off a team already built by Dungy. He reminds me of Mike Tomlin. Another guy who won off a roster already built by the previous coach. Billick only had 3 bad seasons. The GM was too impatient. He could have been great. But they got an even greater coach in Harbaugh.[/quote]
And so neither one of them were great the same goes for Tomlin, despite the fact that they all won Super Bowls. . Ergo the theory of you have to win a SB to be considered "Great" goes down the crapper :lol:
0 x
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!


Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.

User avatar
Eli
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7946
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:52 pm

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Eli » Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:05 pm

Great franchises and great coaches win championships. Period.

Tonight I watched what I consider to be the greatest franchise in professional sports win another championship. Coached by one of the all-time great head coaches.
0 x

User avatar
King James
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1736
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:23 pm
Location: Alabama

Re: Have To Admit

Post by King James » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:28 pm

Purple bruise wrote:Gruden won off a team already built by Dungy. He reminds me of Mike Tomlin. Another guy who won off a roster already built by the previous coach. Billick only had 3 bad seasons. The GM was too impatient. He could have been great. But they got an even greater coach in Harbaugh.
And so neither one of them were great the same goes for Tomlin, despite the fact that they all won Super Bowls. . Ergo the theory of you have to win a SB to be considered "Great" goes down the crapper :lol:[/quote]

You wish. They still have championships unlike in of our head coaches. And unlike Bud Grant they didn't get blowed out.
0 x

Purpnation
Franchise Player
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:29 am

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Purpnation » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:41 pm

Purple bruise wrote:Gruden won off a team already built by Dungy. He reminds me of Mike Tomlin. Another guy who won off a roster already built by the previous coach. Billick only had 3 bad seasons. The GM was too impatient. He could have been great. But they got an even greater coach in Harbaugh.
And so neither one of them were great the same goes for Tomlin, despite the fact that they all won Super Bowls. . Ergo the theory of you have to win a SB to be considered "Great" goes down the crapper :lol:[/quote]

Great coaches win SBs, this does not mean that all coaches who win SBs are great.

Tomlin and Billick were good coaches who won SBs, while Grant was a good coach who didn't win a SB.
0 x

User avatar
Purple bruise
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Purple bruise » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:49 pm

Purpnation wrote: And so neither one of them were great the same goes for Tomlin, despite the fact that they all won Super Bowls. . Ergo the theory of you have to win a SB to be considered "Great" goes down the crapper :lol:
Great coaches win SBs, this does not mean that all coaches who win SBs are great.

Tomlin and Billick were good coaches who won SBs, while Grant was a good coach who didn't win a SB.[/quote]

Cripes sakes, Grant was a GREAT coach that did not win a Super Bowl. :wallbang: :steamed: He is in the Hall of Fame isn't he, WTF does that mean, nothing :roll:
0 x
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!


Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.

Purpnation
Franchise Player
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:29 am

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Purpnation » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:05 pm

Purple bruise wrote: Great coaches win SBs, this does not mean that all coaches who win SBs are great.

Tomlin and Billick were good coaches who won SBs, while Grant was a good coach who didn't win a SB.


Cripes sakes, Grant was a GREAT coach that did not win a Super Bowl. :wallbang: :steamed: He is in the Hall of Fame isn't he, WTF does that mean, nothing :roll:[/quote]

And this is where we differ, I believe that if Grant was a "Great" head coach, he wouldn't have fallen short in the SB 4 times. Marty Schottenheimer and Marv Levy are in the HOF as well, and I hold them to the same standard as Bud Grant.
0 x

User avatar
Just Me
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6095
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:41 pm

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Just Me » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:49 pm

King James wrote:You wish. They still have championships unlike in of our head coaches. And unlike Bud Grant they didn't get blowed out.
Since a Championship is "required" for greatness, does that mean that the 4 CFL Championships he won "don't count"? (He's in the CFL HOF too - BTW).
And Dick Vermeil must be a great coach then?

Here is an interesting web page

Chuck Noll and Vince Lombardi only won half of their games when they faced off against Grant. If Grant is only "good" I have a tough time considering Lombardi or Noll as "great" since they couldn't even win more than half the time against Grant. :P
0 x
I've told people a million times not to exaggerate!

User avatar
Just Me
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6095
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:41 pm

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Just Me » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:03 pm

Purpnation wrote:And this is where we differ, I believe that if Grant was a "Great" head coach, he wouldn't have fallen short in the SB 4 times. Marty Schottenheimer and Marv Levy are in the HOF as well, and I hold them to the same standard as Bud Grant.
See my post above - Grant won 4 Championships. Canadians don't count?
0 x
I've told people a million times not to exaggerate!

Purpnation
Franchise Player
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:29 am

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Purpnation » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:54 pm

Just Me wrote: See my post above - Grant won 4 Championships. Canadians don't count?
Not on the level SBs matter, no, not even close. Winning in the Canadian league is not even half the accomplishment winning in the NFL is.

Let me clarify though, I think Grant was a great coach, but only a good NFL coach. I personally believe that a great NFL coach would have one of four SBs, especially with the talent he had at his disposal.
0 x

User avatar
Just Me
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6095
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:41 pm

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Just Me » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:40 am

Purpnation wrote: Not on the level SBs matter, no, not even close. Winning in the Canadian league is not even half the accomplishment winning in the NFL is.

Let me clarify though, I think Grant was a great coach, but only a good NFL coach. I personally believe that a great NFL coach would have one of four SBs, especially with the talent he had at his disposal.
Agree to disagree, but I see where you are coming from. Just something to keep in mind, however: I wouldn't be so dismissive of the talent level in the CFL (back in Grant's day). Grant was a player for the Philiadelphia Eagles when he was in the NFL. He ended up in the CFL (in the first place) because his pay was better there at that time. (He could have stayed with the Eagles). I don't think it's debatable that the NFL is more talented today than the CFL, but I'm not sure it was as clear cut when Grant was playing (and later coaching) there. In the NFL He split his meetings against Noll and Lombardi (head to head) and actually beat Hank Stram 3 out of 4 times they met (with Grant's only loss to Stram in Grant's career being in SB 4 of course).

In full disclosure, though, the website I linked to has Grant as near the bottom of the 'great' coaches in terms of ranking (something I have no problem with - you can't expect to be in the top 10 list if you are losing 4 Super bowls - Grant was 23rd of the top 25 coaches in terms of overall winning percentage against the other top 24, with only Curly Lambeau and Sid Gillman with a worse winning percentage.)
0 x
I've told people a million times not to exaggerate!

User avatar
Laserman
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7312
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:13 am
Location: Ft Walton Beach, Florida

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Laserman » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:20 pm

in superbowls Grant was outcoached against the Chiefs, Dophins, and raiders. Outplayed by the steeelers. watch the Games. Plain to see. Not that Grant was not great, but he did get outcoached
0 x

User avatar
Purple bruise
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Purple bruise » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:17 am

Laserman wrote:in superbowls Grant was outcoached against the Chiefs, Dophins, and raiders. Outplayed by the steeelers. watch the Games. Plain to see. Not that Grant was not great, but he did get outcoached
What coaching errors did he make? I have watched all of the games many times and it is quite apparent to me that the players lost those games and that had nothing to do with Grant.
0 x
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!


Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.

User avatar
Eli
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7946
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:52 pm

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Eli » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:57 am

Purple bruise wrote: What coaching errors did he make? I have watched all of the games many times and it is quite apparent to me that the players lost those games and that had nothing to do with Grant.
Wow. Nothing to do with Grant? Just...... wow. :wallbang:
0 x

Purpnation
Franchise Player
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:29 am

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Purpnation » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:25 pm

Purple bruise wrote: What coaching errors did he make? I have watched all of the games many times and it is quite apparent to me that the players lost those games and that had nothing to do with Grant.
Right, because players coming out and playing like absolute #### doesn't reflect at all on the head coach. :roll:
0 x

User avatar
Purple bruise
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Have To Admit

Post by Purple bruise » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:03 am

Purpnation wrote: Right, because players coming out and playing like absolute #### doesn't reflect at all on the head coach. :roll:
Yeah blame the coach for the players getting their butts kicked :yawn: :nono: :roll:
0 x
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!


Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.

Post Reply