REDSKINS name

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hibbingviking
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REDSKINS name

Post by hibbingviking » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:38 pm

supposedly many native americans take offense to the name "redskins". when I hear the name redskins I automatically think of the proud Washington redskins. it has a complete different meaning nowadays which is a terrific thing. cant believe some take offense to it in the year 2013. it shouldn't be compared in any way to the n***** word which is totally offensive.
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by indianation65 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:09 am

As an Apache, I, nor does anyone in my family, take offense. Playing the victim does no man any good. I love all Indian names of all athletic teams, although I may not care for the teams themselves. After all, I am a Viking!

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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by Cliff » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:22 am

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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by Cliff » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:41 am

Jeffbleedspurple wrote:I have Indian blood, not a lot, but a little that goes back a few generations. I think the use of native American names is not offensive at all and their use is not intended to be offensive towards these people. Personally I think it's to symbolize bravery, pride and warrior type for the players.
I guess :thumbsup:
I'm mostly Irish so this doesn't offend me personally but I could see why it would offend someone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)
"Redskin" is a racial descriptor for Native Americans, the origin of which is disputed. Although by some accounts not originally having negative intent [1], the term is now defined by dictionaries of American English as "usually offensive" [2], "disparaging" [3] [4], "insulting" [5], "taboo" [6] and is avoided in public usage with the exception of its continued use as a name for sports teams."

To think of it in another way ... would you walk up to a Native American and say "Hey there, Redskin!"? To me it seems *very* similar to any other racial slur only Native Americans have almost no voice about these issues.
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by indianation65 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:45 pm

If someone came up to me and said, "Hey Redskin," I would beam proudly, or laugh. If some wiseguy came up to me and said, "Hey Packer, or Hey Romo," now then fists would fly!

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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by Funkytown » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:57 am

People are far too sensitive these days. The End.
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by hibbingviking » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:50 pm

could be embarrassing worse changing the name to something stupid like the new Orleans pelicans.
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by The Breeze » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:28 pm

I have quite a few Indian friends having lived of a few different reservations. A couple of Washo guys that I went to high school with referred to themselves as 'skins'...not redskins, just skins.

I think the only term used to label Native Americans that was meant to offend (and it does) was savages.

Seems like everything is extra sensitive these days. I just recently read about a group of black bears near Mt Shasta who are really pissed at Chicago. Heads up Chicago.....
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by hibbingviking » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:10 pm

Jeffbleedspurple wrote:I have Indian blood, not a lot, but a little that goes back a few generations. I think the use of native American names is not offensive at all and their use is not intended to be offensive towards these people. Personally I think it's to symbolize bravery, pride and warrior type for the players.
I guess :thumbsup:
I agree. people need to have thick skin. i'm finnish and I have heard many finlander jokes growing up. didn't offend me at all.
when you hear "redskins" I think everyone automatically think of the Washington redskins. it isn't derogatory at all.
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by Cliff » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:01 pm

hibbingviking wrote: I agree. people need to have thick skin. i'm finnish and I have heard many finlander jokes growing up. didn't offend me at all.
when you hear "redskins" I think everyone automatically think of the Washington redskins. it isn't derogatory at all.
Well the "N-word" was originally neutral. It was just a variation of the Spanish word "Negro" mispronounced by Southerns. So why not have the Washington N*****s? I know a lot of black people that don't take offense to the word ... heck, I hear lots of black people refer to each other as that word.

Would you tell the people upset at that team name that they need to have thicker skin? Why not? Where do you draw the line?

Is it simply the number of people who are insulted that matters? Redskin might insult only 15,000 people where as n****r offends 1,000,000?

You and people you know personally that are Indian don't take offense to the word. So? Some people do. Regardless of what you personally think, the word is a negative racial slur. Look it up in any dictionary made in the last 20 years.
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by The Breeze » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:51 pm

My feeling is that it requires the measure of intent when we are just talking about words used in conversation. But as to team names a national symbols it is different for reasons not so obvious. I don't believe the Washington Redskin name is an attempt to marginalize or offend...rather the opposite, it's a symbol of pride. But it's not the truth of native reality in modern society. Here's Sherman Alexie talking to Bill Moyers about it:
Bill Moyers: What is it like to be an alien in the land of your birth?

Sherman Alexie:I mean, it's a destructive feeling. Because, you know, a lot of native culture has been destroyed. So you already feel lost inside your culture. And then you add up feeling lost and insignificant inside the larger culture. So you end up feeling lost squared. And to never be recognized, to never have any power, you know, other minority communities actually have a lot of economic, cultural power. But we don't, you know? Not at all.

I mean, you can still have the Washington Redskins, you know? You can still have the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians, which is by far the worst. And if you look at Chief Wahoo on their hats and put Sambo next to him, it's the same thing. And, you know, you could never have Sambo anymore.

Most, you know, at least half the country thinks the mascot issue is insignificant. But I think it's indicative of the ways in which Indians have no cultural power. We're still placed in the past. So we're either in the past or we're only viewed through casinos.
http://truth-out.org/video/item/15773-s ... al-borders

In this sense I find the names and symbols extremely offense and damaging even though the intent isn't there. I think the amer-opean tribe has a real guilt complex over what took place in this country. They want to claim the iconic "stoic native american" as their own symbol without understanding the irony or fully accepting the responsibility of having systematically dismantled that very image.

A great book to read about some of the deeper wounds still present in native culture is called, "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen.
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by Funkytown » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:00 pm

The Breeze wrote:My feeling is that it requires the measure of intent when we are just talking about words used in conversation. But as to team names a national symbols it is different for reasons not so obvious. I don't believe the Washington Redskin name is an attempt to marginalize or offend...rather the opposite, it's a symbol of pride.
I agree. And I just feel like if this was SUCH an issue, they wouldn't have been able to name them "The Redskins" in the first place. People are becoming more and more sensitive by the minute. I mean, I get it...but then again I don't. When I hear "Redskins" I think of the football team and the football team only. I guess I'm not all into racial names and such, though...but still.
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by Funkytown » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:12 pm

Cliff wrote: Well the "N-word" was originally neutral. It was just a variation of the Spanish word "Negro" mispronounced by Southerns. So why not have the Washington N*****s? I know a lot of black people that don't take offense to the word ... heck, I hear lots of black people refer to each other as that word.
I hear this argument a lot. And as a white person, I think the word is offensive no matter what. But I also understand that black people say it to each other, and are okay with it. Then you have white people thinking they can say it too, because "black people say it to each other". I disagree. The way I understand it: You have to be black to say it. :) There are certain words that groups of people "own" so to speak. People within those groups can say them to each other (but still probably shouldn't), but when an outsider says them...9 times out of 10 it's to be an a-hole. That's where the problem comes from.

I'm not sure how this relates to the Redskins thing, because up until recently...I had no idea it had to do with anything racist! Shows how much I know! I don't pay attention to ridiculousness!

I DO still think people are far too sensitive, but I suppose I can see how some people could find it offensive. With that said, I just think it's probably too late in the game to change it now. It should have been addressed decades ago.

Here's an idea: Don't watch the Redskins if you don't like the name. Give up on football altogether if you have to! Get the point across! :thumbsup: Show that disgusting organization what's up!
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by The Breeze » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:18 pm

MelanieMFunk wrote:
I agree. And I just feel like if this was SUCH an issue, they wouldn't have been able to name them "The Redskins" in the first place.
And that is exactly what Alexie is talking about when he says that Natives have no power in our culture. It's less true today than when the Redskins first got their name...but's it's still true.

The more I understand the issue I see that it's not the words that offend. It's the misrepresentation of native culture that all the symbols and caricatures represent. There aren't many modern Native American role models. Crazy Horse, Geronimo, Sitting Bull? That's not reality to kids growing up on the Rez.
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Re: REDSKINS name

Post by Funkytown » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:29 pm

The Breeze wrote: And that is exactly what Alexie is talking about when he says that Natives have no power in our culture. It's less true today than when the Redskins first got their name...but's it's still true.

The more I understand the issue I see that it's not the words that offend. It's the misrepresentation of native culture that all the symbols and caricatures represent. There aren't many modern Native American role models. Crazy Horse, Geronimo, Sitting Bull? That's not reality to kids growing up on the Rez.
Yeah. Admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about the issue. I don't think the Redskins should have to change their name because of a handful of people getting upset about it. But if they do...oh well. It doesn't affect me any. I just don't see it happening. That's all. If it was going to happen, I think it would have happened long ago. Not that, "Well...it's been this way for so long. We're just used to it. It's okay. It's fine. Get over it." is a great excuse or reasoning...but I think that's how it's going to go down.
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