mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)

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S197
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Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson

Post by S197 » Mon May 07, 2012 2:31 pm

I think the statement that no one dies from weed is erroneous because as J. Kapp pointed out, someone under the influence can cause deaths just like with other drugs or alcohol. I think the more correct statement is that it is incredibly difficult to overdose on marijuana unlike other illegal (or even legal) drugs.

As for decriminalization, Portugal is a great real life example that's worth reading.
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Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson

Post by mondry » Mon May 07, 2012 3:04 pm

S197 wrote:I think the statement that no one dies from weed is erroneous because as J. Kapp pointed out, someone under the influence can cause deaths just like with other drugs or alcohol. I think the more correct statement is that it is incredibly difficult to overdose on marijuana unlike other illegal (or even legal) drugs.

As for decriminalization, Portugal is a great real life example that's worth reading.
Pretty much a play on words really. It's like saying jumping out of a plane can't kill you, but hitting the ground at maximum velocity does!

Very true, I know ZERO people who have ever overdosed on THC, but in fact know 2 people who endured lengthy hospital visits due to improperly taking benzodiazepine's prescribed legit through a doctor! In fact your kids are much more likely to get high off your medication in the medicine cabinet then to go out and actually find weed heh.
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Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson

Post by diehardtwinsfan » Mon May 07, 2012 5:25 pm

Oh man this thread got interesting...

My two cents:

1) I'm sick and tired of the BS people spew about pot being a gateway drug. Pot isn't a gateway drug, alcohol and tobacco are. I've met my fair share of pot smokers and not one of them did pot before they started alcohol and cigs... just saying. It's dumb. If gateway drugs are your fear, go after the real ones.

2) We spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year on the war on drugs, and the reality of the situation is that someone like me (who I'd add has never once smoked a joint and knows no drug dealers) would within a short period of time get pretty much any drug they wanted. That war has failed... miserably. All it has done is drive up the price of drugs and give gangs and organized crime huge sources of revenue. Large portions of most major metropolitan areas have to deal with high crime because of gang wars where many innocent people are killed or maimed on a daily basis. For all the talk about pot causing innocent deaths, I submit to you the simple fact that it already does plenty of that. The fact that it (and other drugs) are illegal is also what is responsible for more and more illegal drugs being made, as people will ALWAYS find a way to fry their brains if that is their goal. The mob sprung up because of prohibition. Less organized gangs are here because of illegal drugs. If you cut off the supply line to these organizations, most will fail on their own. Not to metion that the price would drop, we could recoupe tax dollars for it, and the cartels would collapse overnight.

Look, Simpson is an idiot for what he did, but like someone else said, he was stupid long before there was pot, and he'd still be stupid if pot was legal. But honestly, this whole debate is dumb. It has more to do with greed than anything else. Too many people benefit from things the way they are and they don't care who gets hurt.
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Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson

Post by The Breeze » Mon May 07, 2012 8:59 pm

Late to this debate but my 2 cents: Making a plant illegal....stupid. In a perfect world it be treated and taxed just like alcohol. It's not a performance enhancing drug as far as sports go. Yes people can and do wreck their cars while high on pot....and people get killed too. But what you really don't see from people getting high is domestic violence....you know wife beating and girlfriend strangling. You see lots of it with booze though.

Aside from the whole argument about it's effects versus booze and cigarettes...follow the money. Here is an interesting link for anyone who finds the debate interesting.

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/mari ... y-illegal/


IMO as far as Simpson, or anyone else, and their use or non-use of pot or any controlled substance, or alcohol without moderation, the question is not so much about their criminality but their maturity/stupidity. Why when where and how are they doing it? If you're a pro athlete and risking your financial future smoking some herb?....stupid. Grow up and catch a ton of touchdown passes from CP.

Just wanted to share that link more than getting into any debate.
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Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:17 am

Cliff wrote:The bit about it being a stepping stone to other more dangerous drugs is one I think you'd have trouble proving.
Not really. There are plenty of studies. Here's one of the first.

A 2006 study by the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York found that marijuana affects the human brain's natural chemicals called endogenous opioids, which are known to play a role in heightening positive emotions and creating a sense of reward. That's the same system stimulated by hard drugs.

The results dispel the common belief that drug experimentation doesn't affect the brain and demonstrate the brain may "remember" previous usage and make users vulnerable to harder drugs later in life. It also pretty much debunks the theory that marijuana is only a gateway drug for adolescents who are subject to peer pressures.
Cliff wrote:It's difficult to see the crimialization of the drug being for "health and safety" reasons when more harmful and imparing drugs are openly avaliable.
By "more harmful and impairing," I guess you mean alcohol. I grant you that fatal car accidents occur as a result of alcohol impairment at three times the rate of marijuana. The problem for me is that I don't believe in justifying bad behavior with other bad behavior. Legalizing marijuana will lead to more impaired drivers. I see that as a bad thing, even if it never reaches the rate of alcohol.

So far, all I'm seeing on this board for arguments in favor of legalizing pot are theories. That's fine. I prefer hard evidence.
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Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson

Post by Cliff » Thu May 10, 2012 9:22 am

Not really. There are plenty of studies. Here's one of the first.

A 2006 study by the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York found that marijuana affects the human brain's natural chemicals called endogenous opioids, which are known to play a role in heightening positive emotions and creating a sense of reward. That's the same system stimulated by hard drugs.

The results dispel the common belief that drug experimentation doesn't affect the brain and demonstrate the brain may "remember" previous usage and make users vulnerable to harder drugs later in life. It also pretty much debunks the theory that marijuana is only a gateway drug for adolescents who are subject to peer pressures.
Just so I can understand your stance here; you're advocating that cigarettes and liquor be illegal on these grounds as well, correct? Wouldn't both of those things be considered a "gateway" drug if that's the case? Do you not think they have the same impacts on the brain?

The reason we don't look at liquor and cigarettes as "gateway" drugs is because when you buy either of those items you won't have a drug dealer possibly trying to sell you something harder as well. Take the drug dealer out of the picture and put the product behind a counter and that goes away.

If your arguement is that all of those listed items should be illegal then I can see your point, but still wouldn't agree with you based on freedom of choice issues.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: By "more harmful and impairing," I guess you mean alcohol. I grant you that fatal car accidents occur as a result of alcohol impairment at three times the rate of marijuana. The problem for me is that I don't believe in justifying bad behavior with other bad behavior. Legalizing marijuana will lead to more impaired drivers. I see that as a bad thing, even if it never reaches the rate of alcohol.

So far, all I'm seeing on this board for arguments in favor of legalizing pot are theories. That's fine. I prefer hard evidence.
I don't think I'm making any more assumptions than you are. You're assuming that making marijuana legal will cause drug useage to incrase. If you take a look at countries that have decriminalized it you'll see that isn't the case. One of the main reasons for that, in my opinion, is because it's more difficult for people under the legal age to get their hands on something from a regular market. As was pointed out earlier, Portugal is a great example of this.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 46,00.html
The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."
Here's another article about the same subject;
http://reason.com/archives/2012/03/01/prohibition
The level of conflicts on the street are reduced. Drug-related robberies are reduced. And now the police are not the enemies of the consumers.
The reason I compare marijuana to liquor isn't to say that "this is even worse than marijuana so it doesn't make sense to have one outlawed and not the other!". Though one could make the arguement that it makes more sense to make liquor illegal and marijuana legal. If we were talking about health and safety but still allowing people to have some form of a "vice" then that makes the most sense.

However, I more use liquor as an example because America already has a history of what prohibition looks like and how it simply creates more problems than it solves.
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Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson

Post by S197 » Thu May 10, 2012 2:09 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:Not really. There are plenty of studies. Here's one of the first.
When Portugal decriminalized ALL drugs, I think that's about the best case study you can ask for. Forget the guys in the lab coats, this is a real world scenario that involves millions of people. It's been over a decade now and Portugal has seen:
Increased uptake of treatment.

Reduction in HIV diagnoses amongst drug users by 17%

Reduction in drug related deaths, although this reduction has decreased in later years, and the number of drug related deaths is now almost on the same level as before the Drug strategy was implemented. However, this may be accounted for by improvement in measurement practices, which includes a doubling of toxicological autopsies now being performed, meaning that more drugs related deaths are likely to be recorded.

Reported lifetime use of illicit drugs increased from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin from 0.7% to 1.1%. It has been proposed that this effect may have been related to the candor of interviewees, who may have been inclined to answer more truthfully due to a reduction in the stigma associated with drug use. Statistical trends in neighboring Spain and Italy during the same period also suggested an unclear relation between decriminalization and increased drug use, comparatively.

Drug use among adolescents and "problematic" users declined.

Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased, while the amount of drugs seized increased in quantity.

Decreased street value of most illicit drugs, some significantly.
For the most part, things have either improved or remained the same. There was no large spike in usage, deaths, or an increase in infectious disease transmittal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the use of drugs; however, it's hard to argue with the results.
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Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson

Post by HornedMessiah » Fri May 11, 2012 12:21 pm

mondry wrote:In the end, the only reason marijuana isn't legal is because 1. certain people make TONS of money with the "war on drugs" 2. Prisons. 3. A far cheaper and easier solution to a number of things compared to Big Pharma, and way more fun than Big Tobacco. 4. there are people who just don't understand it, their bad apple son or daughter who was going to be problems anyway smoked weed and oh it was just terrible!
Don't forget that the initial reasons for making marijuana illegal are just a tad questionable as well. Mexican migrant workers (as well as african americans) were moving into new areas of the USA looking for work. The authorities (whites) who already lived in these areas weren't too keen on all these "coloreds" moving into their towns (never mind that they were there to help communities build and grow), so they were looking for reasons to arrest and lock up all these newcomers. They noticed that these new people liked to smoke this plant, so they pushed hard to make it illegal and collaborated with tobacco and alcohol companies who lobbied hard against it (because they saw it as a threat to the sales of their own products). Alcohol & tobacco companies have deep pockets and unleashed a smear campaign against marijuana, and some of that false information they put out there still persists to this day.

I think back to the last Olympics when Michael Phelps became possibly the most decorated Olympian EVER. Then after the games were done, that photo came out where he was caught smoking from a bong. The exaggerated outrage by the media and ignorant public was hilarious. They basically just regurgitated all the nonsense about weed that we've been fed by the authorities since we are young school kids. Did they ever stop to think....hey....this guy is one of the most successful athletes in the world and he smokes weed....maybe JUST MAYBE it's not as horrible as we're told it is.
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Re: mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)

Post by Mercy Percy » Fri May 11, 2012 2:49 pm

I just want to throw in my 2 cents on this. I am a senior in high school and I can personally name off plenty of my friends that smoke pot on occasion and do it probably at least 3 times a week. I've never tried smoking because of sports. I really think it effects people it might not cause cancer and help for pain, but I think its addictive the life style of smoking weed is addictive and they think about things like getting high every weekend some of my friends quit sports they have played their whole lives to sit around and smoke pot. I don't hang out with some of them anymore because they have actually started dealing the drug! I think that it should be legal just to see what happens for the country and if not make it illegal again almost like prohibition with alcohol back in the day.
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Re: mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)

Post by S197 » Fri May 11, 2012 3:13 pm

Smoking marijuana can definitely cause cancer.
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Re: mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)

Post by HornedMessiah » Fri May 11, 2012 3:50 pm

S197 wrote:Smoking marijuana can definitely cause cancer.
Well sure it can because obviously inhaling the fumes of combusted plant material is not good for your lungs. Same with cigarettes, but how many people sit around and smoke 1-2 "packs" of marijuana a day? Anything consumed in excess is bad for your body.

Anyway, lots of things cause cancer. Doctors and scientists are now discovering that sugar (high fructose corn syrup) might be to blame for the high cancer rates in America, and it's in damn near everything.
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Re: mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)

Post by S197 » Fri May 11, 2012 5:31 pm

HornedMessiah wrote: Well sure it can because obviously inhaling the fumes of combusted plant material is not good for your lungs. Same with cigarettes, but how many people sit around and smoke 1-2 "packs" of marijuana a day? Anything consumed in excess is bad for your body.

Anyway, lots of things cause cancer. Doctors and scientists are now discovering that sugar (high fructose corn syrup) might be to blame for the high cancer rates in America, and it's in damn near everything.
I was responding to this:
I really think it effects people it might not cause cancer and help for pain, but I think its addictive the life style of smoking weed is addictive and they think about things like getting high every weekend some of my friends quit sports they have played their whole lives to sit around and smoke pot.
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