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 mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread) 
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Post mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)
Demi wrote:
Another felon. Hopefully they make him read the Culture of Accountability manual. And he plays better than the last felon we signed. Boy Zygi sure is cleaning this team up! :lol:

Ya, He was busted with weed. Fer Chrissakes. When will this country just make it legal. Some of the most successful people I know smoke it. Not like he was selling Meth or Purple Drink. 0 people have died from weed. How many people die from Cigs? Booze? Cars? Food Allergies? The guy is now a convicted Felon because he possessed a plant that grows out of the ground. So Stupid.......

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
bigskyeric wrote:
Demi wrote:
Another felon. Hopefully they make him read the Culture of Accountability manual. And he plays better than the last felon we signed. Boy Zygi sure is cleaning this team up! :lol:

Ya, He was busted with weed. Fer Chrissakes. When will this country just make it legal. Some of the most successful people I know smoke it. Not like he was selling Meth or Purple Drink. 0 people have died from weed. How many people die from Cigs? Booze? Cars? Food Allergies? The guy is now a convicted Felon because he possessed a plant that grows out of the ground. So Stupid.......


No, he's a felon because he ordered three pounds of it from FedEx. So not only is he a felon, he's an idiot.

Wait, that's not his character, there must be some other explanation for it. :roll:

Who knows what else he was doing. It wasn't like he was down on the corner getting a dime bag. This is a little beyond smoking it now and then. How many people do you know that buy 3 pounds and have it shipped to them? (And have six pounds laying around there house?)

There are plenty of things that could be legalized, but they're still criminal. And when you are found guilty of a felony, you're a felon. How many of those people you know are convicted felons because of it?


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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
Demi wrote:
bigskyeric wrote:
Demi wrote:
Another felon. Hopefully they make him read the Culture of Accountability manual. And he plays better than the last felon we signed. Boy Zygi sure is cleaning this team up! :lol:

Ya, He was busted with weed. Fer Chrissakes. When will this country just make it legal. Some of the most successful people I know smoke it. Not like he was selling Meth or Purple Drink. 0 people have died from weed. How many people die from Cigs? Booze? Cars? Food Allergies? The guy is now a convicted Felon because he possessed a plant that grows out of the ground. So Stupid.......


No, he's a felon because he ordered three pounds of it from FedEx. So not only is he a felon, he's an idiot.

Wait, that's not his character, there must be some other explanation for it. :roll:

Who knows what else he was doing. It wasn't like he was down on the corner getting a dime bag. This is a little beyond smoking it now and then. How many people do you know that buy 3 pounds and have it shipped to them? (And have six pounds laying around there house?)

There are plenty of things that could be legalized, but they're still criminal. And when you are found guilty of a felony, you're a felon. How many of those people you know are convicted felons because of it?

one ounce...3 pounds......600 pounds. It's just weed. Of those people I know, the law would consider them felons. Is he an idiot for having it shipped Fed-Ex...ya. But again, the fact that weed is illegal is stupid. It's a law that was enacted with the help of DuPont because marijuana's cousin 'hemp' was a superior resource, and the textile industry had more money for special interest then hemp growers. Did you know the first pair of Levi's were made of Hemp? or that our gov't had a war campaign 'Hemp For Victory'? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp_for_Victory or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9UF-pFhJY 'The 'drug' marijuana is now legal in 15 states and Washington DC (OUR CAPITAL) for medical use. http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view ... eID=000881 It's a subject that is based upon your beliefs. My belief is Jarome Simpson is no more a felon then a guy who buys cigarettes, or a lady who buys a bottle of Vodka, or a person who gets a prescription for pain medication to help with arthritis. I'm guessing Simpson uses it to cope with the stresses of celebrity or for just plain fun. Either way, He isn't felon. He's a guy who enjoys something that uniformed people find dangerous. And for the record, I do not smoke it, but I believe I should have the choice to smoke it if I want to in this (cough) free country we live in.

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
bigskyeric wrote:
Either way, He isn't felon. He's a guy who enjoys something that uniformed people find dangerous. And for the record, I do not smoke it, but I believe I should have the choice to smoke it if I want to in this (cough) free country we live in.


I'm with you. He's not a bad guy for what he's done.

But he is obviously something of a moron. And that's what the Vikings should be concerned about. Will he be bright enough to learn the playbook by the opener? Probably. Will he be able to stay out of trouble by NOT doing something massively stupid? That remains to be seen, and is a big reason why he was signed to just a one year contract.


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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
bigskyeric wrote:
Demi wrote:
Another felon. Hopefully they make him read the Culture of Accountability manual. And he plays better than the last felon we signed. Boy Zygi sure is cleaning this team up! :lol:

Ya, He was busted with weed. Fer Chrissakes. When will this country just make it legal. Some of the most successful people I know smoke it. Not like he was selling Meth or Purple Drink. 0 people have died from weed. How many people die from Cigs? Booze? Cars? Food Allergies? The guy is now a convicted Felon because he possessed a plant that grows out of the ground. So Stupid.......

Zero people have died from weed?

In a study of fatally injured drivers in Washington State, 12.7 percent tested positive for marijuana. Another study of seriously injured drivers showed that 26.9 percent tested positive for marijuana. That's one out of every four.

In a recent national roadside study of weekend nighttime drivers, 8.6 percent tested positive for marijuana, nearly four times the 2.2 percent of drivers who blew a .08 for alcohol. Impaired driving is a pretty big public safety concern.

Since you opened the door to cigarettes and booze ... the costs of legal alcohol and tobacco -- health, legal (for impaired driving, etc.) and other costs -- are a combined $385 billion per year. But hey, they're regulated and taxed, so that makes up for it, right? Not even close. Tax revenue for those two LEGAL substances stands at $39.5 billion. You can do the math ... it costs roughly 10 times more to have legal alcohol and tobacco than the tax revenue collected. Put another way, almost 90 percent of the cost of alcohol and tobacco is paid for by people who DON'T use them. Basically, my health care is sky high, in part, because somebody else smokes. Sorry, but I have no desire to take marijuana down that same economically disastrous path.

I've also heard the argument that legalizing marijuana would reduce its use. That's certainly far from the case when it comes to gambling, which is legal in many precincts. Legalized gambling is taxed and regulated ... crime occurs when people try to avoid those taxes, and it's a big problem in this country. My wife is an executive in the casino industry and knows this well. Illegal sports betting is one of her biggest competitors. The gambling precedent suggests that marijuana dealers would thrive by selling more potent marijuana products outside of legal channels to avoid being taxed and otherwise restricted.

Bottom line: Just because a nation enacts laws to protect its citizens doesn't mean it's not a free country. Marijuana is an economic issue, a health issue, and a public safety issue. You're free to believe what you want, but the facts aren't in dispute.

Jerome Simpson broke the law, and he's paying for it. Props to him for recognizing it and accepting the league's punishment. The fact that he's not challenging his suspension gives me hope that he actually wants to straighten things out and be a productive player.

Just the opinion of an uninformed person.

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
one thing that i find funny in all the weed talk. people are so quick to say that weed is nothing. it's less harmful than alcohol. no one dies from it. it's just a plant. and all the other things they say to justify people smoking weed. but what is interesting....is weed HAS to be more powerful and destructive than people are giving it credit for because people simply can't stop using it! we have millionaires that are willing to jeopradize their careers and livlihood for this harmless little plant. i just don't see how it's possible anymore.

i used to follow the line of thinking here that it's not a big deal. granted, i don't smoke myself...i looked at it like a non-issue like many here are doing. but then i saw teammates getting kicked off the team because of it. i saw friends get kicked out of school because of it. we see athletes losing jobs over it. we see people going to prison because of it. we see accidents occur because of it. we see all these negative impacts of this "harmless" drug....yet people are so quick to give it a pass. it is clearly an addictive and dangerous drug because we see how much harm it can cause people.

weed is no different than any other illegal substance and as of today it is still illegal. if guys are willing to cost themselves millions of dollars because they can't kick their habit of getting high...that's their choice. still makes them addicts, and it makes this drug obviously more dangerous than many want to give it credit for. if it didn't, and if it was truly so harmless.....guys would be able to kick the habit with ease and we wouldn't have multi-millionaires risking their careers to smoke a little joint. :idea:

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
vikeinmontana wrote:
but what is interesting....is weed HAS to be more powerful and destructive than people are giving it credit for because people simply can't stop using it! we have millionaires that are willing to jeopradize their careers and livlihood for this harmless little plant.


If the NFL outlawed Cheerios there would be guys who would eat them and face fines and suspensions. Maybe you haven't noticed, but a significant percentage of the players in the NFL just aren't very intelligent.


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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
Just for fun:

Technically Cocaine/Crack/it's other derivatives come from somethign that is "just a plant"

Cyanide comes from a plant too. So does Mustard Gas.

Hemlock? Just a plant too.

Apparently if it requires any kind of refnining it is bad, but if you just smoke the plant it is A-OK. More logic please?

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
In a study of fatally injured drivers in Washington State, 12.7 percent tested positive for marijuana. Another study of seriously injured drivers showed that 26.9 percent tested positive for marijuana. That's one out of every four.


So does this mean that 87.3% of fatally injured drivers were not smokeing pot, and 73.1% of seriously injured drivers were also not smokeing pot? 12.7% percent isnt sounding too bad.

I think that his point was that smokeing ciggarettes can cause many detremental health issues, includeing cancer, and alcohol poisoning has killed many many people aswell. Where as pot, as far as i know, doesnt have the same fatal health effects, but i am not positive on this.

I am completely against pot being legalized because i have seen the effects it has on people over a long period of time, though these effects are not fatal, they are social and psychological and can have a huge effect on people life and lifestyle. On the flip side of that i know people that have smoked pot regularly for over 30 years that are living normal lives. I would trade legalized pot for illegalized ciggarettes any day though.

I also agree that the amount of pot that Simpson was caught with, along with what he intended to do with it, makes this completely different from other players that choose to get high once in awhile. We dont need pro atheletes distributing drugs to our kids (and dont kid yourself, you know thats where some of it wouldve eventually ended up).

He seems like a good player though and hopefully he has matured and will take advantage of this chance that we are extending him.

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Post mary-jane
I certainly agree with the people who say that it shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Especially when drugs like liquor and cigarettes are legal. And yes, they are both drugs as well and are both much worse for you.

As far as the "costs" that have been brought up ... specifically about healthcare ... that's true. However, how about throwing the cost for the "war on drugs" into that equasion? I'm guessing the healthcare costs that you bring up are pretty much negated when we talk about having cops searching for it, paying for people to be jailed because of it, etc. Not only that, it creates an illegal black market and makes it more easily accessable to children since, you know ... drug dealers don't really ask for ID like a clerk at a store would have to.

All that aside, regardless of your opinions ... it is illegal and it's simply not smart for someone like Simpson who has so much to lose to have it. Hopefully he learned from his mistake.

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
AADPFan wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
In a study of fatally injured drivers in Washington State, 12.7 percent tested positive for marijuana. Another study of seriously injured drivers showed that 26.9 percent tested positive for marijuana. That's one out of every four.


So does this mean that 87.3% of fatally injured drivers were not smokeing pot, and 73.1% of seriously injured drivers were also not smokeing pot? 12.7% percent isnt sounding too bad.

You're not serious, right?

12.7 percent is a very significant percentage. And let's not forget ... this only accounts the actual drivers who tested positive for marijuana. It doesn't count the other people injured or killed in those accidents.

AADPFan wrote:
I think that his point was that smokeing ciggarettes can cause many detremental health issues, includeing cancer, and alcohol poisoning has killed many many people aswell. Where as pot, as far as i know, doesnt have the same fatal health effects, but i am not positive on this.

Doesn't have the same fatal health effects? I just showed you where it does.

AADPFan wrote:
I am completely against pot being legalized because i have seen the effects it has on people over a long period of time, though these effects are not fatal, they are social and psychological and can have a huge effect on people life and lifestyle. On the flip side of that i know people that have smoked pot regularly for over 30 years that are living normal lives. I would trade legalized pot for illegalized ciggarettes any day though.

And I know of people who have drunk alcohol their entire lives with no adverse effects. I'm one of them. That doesn't mean alcohol has no adverse effects. Just because some people use marijuana with no obvious ill effects doesn't make marijuana harmless. Users drive while impaired, they get stoned on the job, and they use it as a stepping stone to other more dangerous drugs. Those are all facts that can be proved.

AADPFan wrote:
I also agree that the amount of pot that Simpson was caught with, along with what he intended to do with it, makes this completely different from other players that choose to get high once in awhile. We dont need pro atheletes distributing drugs to our kids (and dont kid yourself, you know thats where some of it wouldve eventually ended up).

He seems like a good player though and hopefully he has matured and will take advantage of this chance that we are extending him.

These are good points that I didn't make. He made a big mistake. I hope he turns his life around. If not, I guess we'll jettison him.

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
12.7 percent is a very significant percentage. And let's not forget ... this only accounts the actual drivers who tested positive for marijuana. It doesn't count the other people injured or killed in those accidents.


Are those percentages for people who had nothing but marijuana in their system or do they include something and marijuana? That is an important distinction, in my opinion.

Quote:
And I know of people who have drunk alcohol their entire lives with no adverse effects. I'm one of them. That doesn't mean alcohol has no adverse effects. Just because some people use marijuana with no obvious ill effects doesn't make marijuana harmless. Users drive while impaired, they get stoned on the job, and they use it as a stepping stone to other more dangerous drugs. Those are all facts that can be proved.


The bit about it being a stepping stone to other more dangerous drugs is one I think you'd have trouble proving. I will grant you that people that buy it have more access to more dangerous drugs, but that's a result of it being sold via the black market. If it were sold at the neighborhood liquor store it wouldn't be as big of a problem. Well ... other than it might be a stepping stone to drinking liquor, which is a harder and more dangerous drug.

All of those things you just pointed out are the same for liquor, I would have to say. Liquor is much worse about imparing your judgement and cigarettes are much more dangerous health wise.

It's difficult to see the crimialization of the drug being for "health and safety" reasons when more harmful and imparing drugs are openly avaliable.

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
You're not serious, right?

Doesn't have the same fatal health effects? I just showed you where it does.


No, i was not being seriouse.

The healthiest person in the world could get into a car accident and die, that doesnt mean that his lifestlye prior to that point was affecting his bodily health (im not sure "bodily health" is even a proper phrase???). Im still pretty sure what he was saying was that pot by itself doesnt harm your body to the same extent that cigarrettes or alcohol can.

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
And I know of people who have drunk alcohol their entire lives with no adverse effects. I'm one of them. That doesn't mean alcohol has no adverse effects. Just because some people use marijuana with no obvious ill effects doesn't make marijuana harmless. Users drive while impaired, they get stoned on the job, and they use it as a stepping stone to other more dangerous drugs. Those are all facts that can be proved.


I didnt see this before, but i agree with this, people can drink thier entire lives with out any major negative effects, but alcohol does have acute health effects suchs as alcohol poisoning.

I am sure that the major adverse health effects of alcohol are more out in the open and have been studied more than the major adverse health effects of smokeing pot. I personnaly have not heard of anyone ever dieing from smokeing too much pot nor have i heard anything on the long term effects of smokeing pot (besides seeing some pot smokers becomeing complete low-lifes and not accomplishing anything in life, but that seems to happen to a lot of people i know regardless of what drug they do or even if they dont do drugs at all). That does not mean that those effects dont exist or havent been studied, but i havent heard about it.

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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
J. Kapp 11 wrote:


12.7 percent is a very significant percentage. And let's not forget ... this only accounts the actual drivers who tested positive for marijuana. It doesn't count the other people injured or killed in those accidents.


12.7 is not very significant at all, at least not for your war on pot, considering alcohol is usually well into the 30+% range for fatal driving accidents. As for your next point of course it doesn't, just like it doesn't count a car full of drunks ramming into a family's mini van. If we're using it to slam pot then we have to use the same stats to slam alcohol.

AADPFan wrote:
I think that his point was that smokeing ciggarettes can cause many detremental health issues, includeing cancer, and alcohol poisoning has killed many many people aswell. Where as pot, as far as i know, doesnt have the same fatal health effects, but i am not positive on this.


Correct, it's been scientifically proven the odds of developing lung cancer are many times greater from the commercialized cigarettes full of carcinogens compared to a home made joint or smoking out of a bowl. To be fair, smoking tobacco out of a pipe actually isn't that bad either! The biggest difference here is that too many cigs, or too much alcohol CAN kill you, especially over time, where it's incredibly hard to reach OD levels of THC by conventional means and the long term health problems from repeated use of marijuana are basically negligible compared to alcohol and cigs. Ever wonder why you have a hang over and feel like crap after a lot of drinking? Well your body (specifically liver) just got done saving your life from a poisoning agent and now you're dehydrated (despite the poison being served in a liquid!)


AADPFan wrote:
I am completely against pot being legalized because i have seen the effects it has on people over a long period of time, though these effects are not fatal, they are social and psychological and can have a huge effect on people life and lifestyle. On the flip side of that i know people that have smoked pot regularly for over 30 years that are living normal lives. I would trade legalized pot for illegalized ciggarettes any day though.


Quote:
And I know of people who have drunk alcohol their entire lives with no adverse effects. I'm one of them. That doesn't mean alcohol has no adverse effects. Just because some people use marijuana with no obvious ill effects doesn't make marijuana harmless. Users drive while impaired, they get stoned on the job, and they use it as a stepping stone to other more dangerous drugs. Those are all facts that can be proved.


Bottom line, most people live normal lives regardless of what their drug of choice is. If someone gets high at work they risk their jobs, but you can't tell me that that is any different than someone who drinks at work! The problem becomes when the impact of the few far out weigh the impact of the majority. For example, kapp, you say you have drank all your life, that's fine, I don't judge you for that! But I bet most of your drinking occurs after work, when you're at home, watching the game, relaxing, or whatever. I don't imagine you think getting hammered, then driving your car somewhere is perfectly okay? But now imagine they made alcohol, even beer, completely illegal because some guys / gals are irresponsible and drive their cars into other people! Now you can't even drink at home responsibly and have to go to a speak easy on the road! That is Marijuana in a nutshell, if I want to smoke up, eat some cheetos and play video games in my basement where is the harm?

In some ways it's fairly hypocritical, if a doctor says we can get high and prescribes us "medicine" then it's okay. Oxycontin, Opiates, some times even things like Morphine! Then there are all the anti depression, anxiety, blah blah blah drugs and most of them alter the way our brain receptors receive chemicals. (and usually far more than THC does!) A lot of them even say "don't drive or operate machinery until you know how this DRUG effects you!" but people drive and have accidents on them, perhaps they should be illegal too!

In the end, the only reason marijuana isn't legal is because 1. certain people make TONS of money with the "war on drugs" 2. Prisons. 3. A far cheaper and easier solution to a number of things compared to Big Pharma, and way more fun than Big Tobacco. 4. there are people who just don't understand it, their bad apple son or daughter who was going to be problems anyway smoked weed and oh it was just terrible!

Btw, I have yet to find a person who drinks regularly or smokes cigs regularly that is healthier than I am. In fact, I would love to foot, swim, or bicycle race anyone who drinks or smokes cigs (regularly) between 5 and 25 miles in length (depending on type of race) if there are any takers! If you are unable to run 5 miles then I'm fine with a 1 mile race. Just for fun :)

P.S. Simpson was obviously stupid, but like forrest gump says "stupid is as stupid does." Marijuana isn't going to make a difference. The fact that the punishment was so minimal both from the league and LAW kinda goes to show you how serious a marijuana offense is!


Mon May 07, 2012 1:54 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
I think the statement that no one dies from weed is erroneous because as J. Kapp pointed out, someone under the influence can cause deaths just like with other drugs or alcohol. I think the more correct statement is that it is incredibly difficult to overdose on marijuana unlike other illegal (or even legal) drugs.

As for decriminalization, Portugal is a great real life example that's worth reading.


Mon May 07, 2012 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
S197 wrote:
I think the statement that no one dies from weed is erroneous because as J. Kapp pointed out, someone under the influence can cause deaths just like with other drugs or alcohol. I think the more correct statement is that it is incredibly difficult to overdose on marijuana unlike other illegal (or even legal) drugs.

As for decriminalization, Portugal is a great real life example that's worth reading.


Pretty much a play on words really. It's like saying jumping out of a plane can't kill you, but hitting the ground at maximum velocity does!

Very true, I know ZERO people who have ever overdosed on THC, but in fact know 2 people who endured lengthy hospital visits due to improperly taking benzodiazepine's prescribed legit through a doctor! In fact your kids are much more likely to get high off your medication in the medicine cabinet then to go out and actually find weed heh.


Mon May 07, 2012 3:04 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
Oh man this thread got interesting...

My two cents:

1) I'm sick and tired of the BS people spew about pot being a gateway drug. Pot isn't a gateway drug, alcohol and tobacco are. I've met my fair share of pot smokers and not one of them did pot before they started alcohol and cigs... just saying. It's dumb. If gateway drugs are your fear, go after the real ones.

2) We spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year on the war on drugs, and the reality of the situation is that someone like me (who I'd add has never once smoked a joint and knows no drug dealers) would within a short period of time get pretty much any drug they wanted. That war has failed... miserably. All it has done is drive up the price of drugs and give gangs and organized crime huge sources of revenue. Large portions of most major metropolitan areas have to deal with high crime because of gang wars where many innocent people are killed or maimed on a daily basis. For all the talk about pot causing innocent deaths, I submit to you the simple fact that it already does plenty of that. The fact that it (and other drugs) are illegal is also what is responsible for more and more illegal drugs being made, as people will ALWAYS find a way to fry their brains if that is their goal. The mob sprung up because of prohibition. Less organized gangs are here because of illegal drugs. If you cut off the supply line to these organizations, most will fail on their own. Not to metion that the price would drop, we could recoupe tax dollars for it, and the cartels would collapse overnight.

Look, Simpson is an idiot for what he did, but like someone else said, he was stupid long before there was pot, and he'd still be stupid if pot was legal. But honestly, this whole debate is dumb. It has more to do with greed than anything else. Too many people benefit from things the way they are and they don't care who gets hurt.


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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
Late to this debate but my 2 cents: Making a plant illegal....stupid. In a perfect world it be treated and taxed just like alcohol. It's not a performance enhancing drug as far as sports go. Yes people can and do wreck their cars while high on pot....and people get killed too. But what you really don't see from people getting high is domestic violence....you know wife beating and girlfriend strangling. You see lots of it with booze though.

Aside from the whole argument about it's effects versus booze and cigarettes...follow the money. Here is an interesting link for anyone who finds the debate interesting.

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/mari ... y-illegal/


IMO as far as Simpson, or anyone else, and their use or non-use of pot or any controlled substance, or alcohol without moderation, the question is not so much about their criminality but their maturity/stupidity. Why when where and how are they doing it? If you're a pro athlete and risking your financial future smoking some herb?....stupid. Grow up and catch a ton of touchdown passes from CP.

Just wanted to share that link more than getting into any debate.


Mon May 07, 2012 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
Cliff wrote:
The bit about it being a stepping stone to other more dangerous drugs is one I think you'd have trouble proving.

Not really. There are plenty of studies. Here's one of the first.

A 2006 study by the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York found that marijuana affects the human brain's natural chemicals called endogenous opioids, which are known to play a role in heightening positive emotions and creating a sense of reward. That's the same system stimulated by hard drugs.

The results dispel the common belief that drug experimentation doesn't affect the brain and demonstrate the brain may "remember" previous usage and make users vulnerable to harder drugs later in life. It also pretty much debunks the theory that marijuana is only a gateway drug for adolescents who are subject to peer pressures.

Cliff wrote:
It's difficult to see the crimialization of the drug being for "health and safety" reasons when more harmful and imparing drugs are openly avaliable.

By "more harmful and impairing," I guess you mean alcohol. I grant you that fatal car accidents occur as a result of alcohol impairment at three times the rate of marijuana. The problem for me is that I don't believe in justifying bad behavior with other bad behavior. Legalizing marijuana will lead to more impaired drivers. I see that as a bad thing, even if it never reaches the rate of alcohol.

So far, all I'm seeing on this board for arguments in favor of legalizing pot are theories. That's fine. I prefer hard evidence.

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Thu May 10, 2012 12:17 am
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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
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Not really. There are plenty of studies. Here's one of the first.

A 2006 study by the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York found that marijuana affects the human brain's natural chemicals called endogenous opioids, which are known to play a role in heightening positive emotions and creating a sense of reward. That's the same system stimulated by hard drugs.

The results dispel the common belief that drug experimentation doesn't affect the brain and demonstrate the brain may "remember" previous usage and make users vulnerable to harder drugs later in life. It also pretty much debunks the theory that marijuana is only a gateway drug for adolescents who are subject to peer pressures.


Just so I can understand your stance here; you're advocating that cigarettes and liquor be illegal on these grounds as well, correct? Wouldn't both of those things be considered a "gateway" drug if that's the case? Do you not think they have the same impacts on the brain?

The reason we don't look at liquor and cigarettes as "gateway" drugs is because when you buy either of those items you won't have a drug dealer possibly trying to sell you something harder as well. Take the drug dealer out of the picture and put the product behind a counter and that goes away.

If your arguement is that all of those listed items should be illegal then I can see your point, but still wouldn't agree with you based on freedom of choice issues.

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
By "more harmful and impairing," I guess you mean alcohol. I grant you that fatal car accidents occur as a result of alcohol impairment at three times the rate of marijuana. The problem for me is that I don't believe in justifying bad behavior with other bad behavior. Legalizing marijuana will lead to more impaired drivers. I see that as a bad thing, even if it never reaches the rate of alcohol.

So far, all I'm seeing on this board for arguments in favor of legalizing pot are theories. That's fine. I prefer hard evidence.


I don't think I'm making any more assumptions than you are. You're assuming that making marijuana legal will cause drug useage to incrase. If you take a look at countries that have decriminalized it you'll see that isn't the case. One of the main reasons for that, in my opinion, is because it's more difficult for people under the legal age to get their hands on something from a regular market. As was pointed out earlier, Portugal is a great example of this.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 46,00.html

Quote:
The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."


Here's another article about the same subject;
http://reason.com/archives/2012/03/01/prohibition

Quote:
The level of conflicts on the street are reduced. Drug-related robberies are reduced. And now the police are not the enemies of the consumers.


The reason I compare marijuana to liquor isn't to say that "this is even worse than marijuana so it doesn't make sense to have one outlawed and not the other!". Though one could make the arguement that it makes more sense to make liquor illegal and marijuana legal. If we were talking about health and safety but still allowing people to have some form of a "vice" then that makes the most sense.

However, I more use liquor as an example because America already has a history of what prohibition looks like and how it simply creates more problems than it solves.

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Thu May 10, 2012 9:22 am
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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Not really. There are plenty of studies. Here's one of the first.


When Portugal decriminalized ALL drugs, I think that's about the best case study you can ask for. Forget the guys in the lab coats, this is a real world scenario that involves millions of people. It's been over a decade now and Portugal has seen:

Quote:
Increased uptake of treatment.

Reduction in HIV diagnoses amongst drug users by 17%

Reduction in drug related deaths, although this reduction has decreased in later years, and the number of drug related deaths is now almost on the same level as before the Drug strategy was implemented. However, this may be accounted for by improvement in measurement practices, which includes a doubling of toxicological autopsies now being performed, meaning that more drugs related deaths are likely to be recorded.

Reported lifetime use of illicit drugs increased from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin from 0.7% to 1.1%. It has been proposed that this effect may have been related to the candor of interviewees, who may have been inclined to answer more truthfully due to a reduction in the stigma associated with drug use. Statistical trends in neighboring Spain and Italy during the same period also suggested an unclear relation between decriminalization and increased drug use, comparatively.

Drug use among adolescents and "problematic" users declined.

Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased, while the amount of drugs seized increased in quantity.

Decreased street value of most illicit drugs, some significantly.


For the most part, things have either improved or remained the same. There was no large spike in usage, deaths, or an increase in infectious disease transmittal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the use of drugs; however, it's hard to argue with the results.


Thu May 10, 2012 2:09 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Sign WR Jerome Simpson
mondry wrote:
In the end, the only reason marijuana isn't legal is because 1. certain people make TONS of money with the "war on drugs" 2. Prisons. 3. A far cheaper and easier solution to a number of things compared to Big Pharma, and way more fun than Big Tobacco. 4. there are people who just don't understand it, their bad apple son or daughter who was going to be problems anyway smoked weed and oh it was just terrible!


Don't forget that the initial reasons for making marijuana illegal are just a tad questionable as well. Mexican migrant workers (as well as african americans) were moving into new areas of the USA looking for work. The authorities (whites) who already lived in these areas weren't too keen on all these "coloreds" moving into their towns (never mind that they were there to help communities build and grow), so they were looking for reasons to arrest and lock up all these newcomers. They noticed that these new people liked to smoke this plant, so they pushed hard to make it illegal and collaborated with tobacco and alcohol companies who lobbied hard against it (because they saw it as a threat to the sales of their own products). Alcohol & tobacco companies have deep pockets and unleashed a smear campaign against marijuana, and some of that false information they put out there still persists to this day.

I think back to the last Olympics when Michael Phelps became possibly the most decorated Olympian EVER. Then after the games were done, that photo came out where he was caught smoking from a bong. The exaggerated outrage by the media and ignorant public was hilarious. They basically just regurgitated all the nonsense about weed that we've been fed by the authorities since we are young school kids. Did they ever stop to think....hey....this guy is one of the most successful athletes in the world and he smokes weed....maybe JUST MAYBE it's not as horrible as we're told it is.


Fri May 11, 2012 12:21 pm
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Post Re: mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)
I just want to throw in my 2 cents on this. I am a senior in high school and I can personally name off plenty of my friends that smoke pot on occasion and do it probably at least 3 times a week. I've never tried smoking because of sports. I really think it effects people it might not cause cancer and help for pain, but I think its addictive the life style of smoking weed is addictive and they think about things like getting high every weekend some of my friends quit sports they have played their whole lives to sit around and smoke pot. I don't hang out with some of them anymore because they have actually started dealing the drug! I think that it should be legal just to see what happens for the country and if not make it illegal again almost like prohibition with alcohol back in the day.

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Fri May 11, 2012 2:49 pm
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Post Re: mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)
Smoking marijuana can definitely cause cancer.


Fri May 11, 2012 3:13 pm
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Post Re: mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)
S197 wrote:
Smoking marijuana can definitely cause cancer.


Well sure it can because obviously inhaling the fumes of combusted plant material is not good for your lungs. Same with cigarettes, but how many people sit around and smoke 1-2 "packs" of marijuana a day? Anything consumed in excess is bad for your body.

Anyway, lots of things cause cancer. Doctors and scientists are now discovering that sugar (high fructose corn syrup) might be to blame for the high cancer rates in America, and it's in damn near everything.


Fri May 11, 2012 3:50 pm
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Post Re: mary-jane (split off from Jerome Simpson thread)
HornedMessiah wrote:
S197 wrote:
Smoking marijuana can definitely cause cancer.


Well sure it can because obviously inhaling the fumes of combusted plant material is not good for your lungs. Same with cigarettes, but how many people sit around and smoke 1-2 "packs" of marijuana a day? Anything consumed in excess is bad for your body.

Anyway, lots of things cause cancer. Doctors and scientists are now discovering that sugar (high fructose corn syrup) might be to blame for the high cancer rates in America, and it's in damn near everything.


I was responding to this:

Quote:
I really think it effects people it might not cause cancer and help for pain, but I think its addictive the life style of smoking weed is addictive and they think about things like getting high every weekend some of my friends quit sports they have played their whole lives to sit around and smoke pot.


Fri May 11, 2012 5:31 pm
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