Twins 2011

[purple guy]

They blew a 5-0 lead, Im totally

[PurpleMustReign]

They blew a 5-0 lead, Im totally

I'm not. I was at the game and when I saw that Baker had been removed, I knew it was over. The first batter reached on a infield single, and I said the next batter would walk. Sure as ####. What a gutless, pathetic, embarassing performance by the entire team, except for Scott Baker and Alexi Casilla.
Jason Kubel made a baserunning error that cost the team a run, although whoever was on third (Kuber was doubled off 2nd) could have tried to score instead of just waltzing home. And on a two-out play earlier in the game, Valencia was on first, and there was a line drive hit to the 2nd baseman. Valencia proceeded to run back to first and dive back as if there was a play... THERE WERE TWO OUTS. Is no one telling these guys how many outs there are? Are they not following the game that they are playing in?
Any other team in the majors would have fired their manager by now. But no, the Twins don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Pussys. Bill Smith, Gardenhire, Rick Anderson, and the base coaches need to go NOW or we won't have a winning team for years.

[purple guy]

I'm not. I was at the game and when I saw that Baker had been removed, I knew it was over. The first batter reached on a infield single, and I said the next batter would walk. Sure as ####. What a gutless, pathetic, embarassing performance by the entire team, except for Scott Baker and Alexi Casilla.
Jason Kubel made a baserunning error that cost the team a run, although whoever was on third (Kuber was doubled off 2nd) could have tried to score instead of just waltzing home. And on a two-out play earlier in the game, Valencia was on first, and there was a line drive hit to the 2nd baseman. Valencia proceeded to run back to first and dive back as if there was a play... THERE WERE TWO OUTS. Is no one telling these guys how many outs there are? Are they not following the game that they are playing in?
Any other team in the majors would have fired their manager by now. But no, the Twins don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Pussys. Bill Smith, Gardenhire, Rick Anderson, and the base coaches need to go NOW or we won't have a winning team for years.

I was being sarcastic. This seasons Twins, NO lead is safe, especially if they go to the pen. While last nights game was a good showing by the pitcher (whom I ve never heard of), we nearly lost because we cant hit. Cant play a complete game. If the pitching shows up, we dont hit, if the bats come to play, we cant hold the opposition to fewer than 5-9 runs. How Guardy holds his job is beyond me. ANY other team would not be OK with the garbage the Twins roll out on the field with, for some reason, Minny is OK with it. I think Guardy tries to get thrown out sometimes so he doesnt have to make decisions. Last night, had Guardy stayed in, I bet the VERY next batter after the no-hitter was lost, he would have immediately went to the bull pen, reguardless of how the guy was throwing. Luckily they let him finish the inning, Guardy would have lost last night IMO.

[HornedMessiah]

Gardenhire will get at least two more seasons after this one before the team fires him, unless he can turn it around of course. There's just this whole "Minnesota nice" thing with the whole Gardy situation, it's like, "Oh Gardy, you're such a nice guy and we don't care that your teams consistently make an early exit from the postseason. You're a nice guy and we're happy with just winning the division. Such a nice guy."

[glg]

Gardenhire will get at least two more seasons after this one before the team fires him, unless he can turn it around of course. There's just this whole "Minnesota nice" thing with the whole Gardy situation, it's like, "Oh Gardy, you're such a nice guy and we don't care that your teams consistently make an early exit from the postseason. You're a nice guy and we're happy with just winning the division. Such a nice guy."

Yeah, but this year the winning-the-division part sure doesn't look likely.

[purple guy]

Cant catch routine pop ups, bunting with 2 strikes, WTF. Guardy and the Twins are tough to watch. They have lost 37 games, having only played 54. Will they lose 100 this season??? It wouldnt surprise me at all. They look terrible. Delmon need to be traded, IF anyone would give up anything for him at this point. Its actually more funny than anything at this point. If Guardy isnt gone soon or at seasons end, the management of the Twins should all be gone. He has lost this team and I cant stand his managing at all. Need a fresh start for the Twins cuz Guardys same ol same ol aint cutting it. Hasnt cut it for years IMO. One and dones dont do much for me.

I think
Twins losses>100.

[HornedMessiah]

Casilla seems to be getting his stuff together lately, big jump in his batting average the last few weeks. I want to like him, but he's so #### frustrating at times because he'll do something great and then follow it up with some really boneheaded crap. If he can just eliminate the dumb mental mistakes, he would be a great player. Fast, switch hitter, strong arm, what's not to like about that?

But now Thome AND Kubel are on the DL? Span and Morneau are also both having neck issues. Seriously, WTF is going on here? The injury situation with the team this year is #### ridiculous. We've played most of the season with a bunch of guys that are mediocre Triple-A guys, so Gardy really hasn't had much to work with. Still...when the injuries are this out of hand, you almost have to question if it's some kind of managerial oversight.

[purple guy]

Yea, Casilla is swinging very, very well. And has done well in the field as well, very pleasantly surprised with him. Hope he keeps it up. The two Im most disappointed in are Young and Valencia. Young came in last season lean and looking like he meant business, and he had a very good season, this season, he put the weight back on, looks lacadazical (sp), and seems to hit like Punto did, ya know, like he is swinging a straw at a BB while blind folded. And Valencia was fighting Punto for a spot last season, and crushed him IMO, and rightfully won the roster spot which FINALLY allowed the Twins to lose Punto. Now, he is invisible at the plate. He is decent at 3rd base, but isnt hitting like he did last season. Heck, a few times last year he was clutch, doesnt have that this season, at all.

[PurpleMustReign]

Now in no way am I thinking about a division title or anything stupid like that, but is it possible that this team has begun to turn the corner? 5 straight wins, and winning tonight in Cleveland.

[purple guy]

Now in no way am I thinking about a division title or anything stupid like that, but is it possible that this team has begun to turn the corner? 5 straight wins, and winning tonight in Cleveland.

I dont think a division title is likely at all. However, if the team could get healthy, this division is winnable, its pretty weak. Winning 5 straight is a good thing tho. Ill be happy to not be last in the division and have the 30th rankings in nearly every stat climb a little. A sweep of Cleveland would be sweet.

[vikeinmontana]

so the twins are playing great lately. had me wondering something. and just to be clear...i'm far from a gardy lover....but i certainly don't despise him as much as some. but a few weeks ago we were just getting killed and people were furious with the managing. i found this semi-interesting as i believe it was reported that we actually had 4 guys starting that weren't even in the big leagues opening day. but forget all that. lets say gardy was 100% to blame for our struggles earlier no matter who was starting for us. where do you guys stand now? we have won 8-9 and are playing good baseball. does he get as much credit as he does blame?

and we all agree that his biggest negative is that we don't win in the post-season. and i agree with that. if he can't learn to play in the post-season...he should be done. but that doesn't change the fact that people were judging his regular season performances and were very unhappy. hell...i was unhappy too but i wasn't ready to lay all the fault on gardy....

i'm just wondering if this is a two way street. were those so furious with his managing agree that he's doing very well right now? is there a chance that he doesn't get as much credit for our current hot streak? is there a chance maybe he didn't deserve all the criticism for our early struggles?

i'm really asking. trying to get a pulse here. typically this board is alive and well when we are getting killed but remains fairly quiet when we win and it just has me curious.

[PurpleMustReign]

Good question vikeinmontana.

My feelings for Gardenhire go back a long way, back to the postseason against NYY where Hunter gave the Twins a lead in extra innings, and then for some reason he kept Joe Nathan in the game despite his struggles against NYY and the fact that he pitched the inning previous, and wasn't used to two inning saves. He should have brought in someone else to save the game.

in the regular season, Gardenhire is a mediocre manager. I think he is terribly overrated because he wins a terrible diviision every year. My bigget complaint is how he handles his starters. 100 pitches... STOP... TAKE HIM OUT!!! He may hurt himself!!! His arm will fal off!!! Then he will bring in Matt Guerrier (up to this season of course) who pitches every game (because it's the 8th inning you know) and is completely worn out by the end of the season. Then Guerrier will completely f-up the game. This of course is toward the second half of the season when Guerrier is tired, and when the games matter the most.

With all that said, my biggest complaint about Gardenhire is the face that hs has lost 12 straight playoff games, including like 10 at hime or something. HE is worse than Dennis Green or Marty Shottenheimer in the post season. He can't win the games when they matter the most.
To Gardy's gredit this season, perhaps because of necessity due to a horrific bullpen, he has left some starters in well past 100 pitches, and lo and behold, they win the games, their arms don't fall off, and they are still ready for their next start. I am hoping that he is learning something about his pitchers here that they are able to throw that many pitches, and that if you let them keep throwing, they will condition themselves to go that much further, and then save on the bullpen.
I still don't like him at all. Until he proves he can win in the playoffs and beat NYY (if yo go back to 2003, the only team NYY has beaten in the playoffs is the Twins, except for the year they won the World Series), I will still despise him.

[purple guy]

Does Guardy deserve some credit for this winning streak?? Sure, if I blast him when we lose, Ill give him some credit when we win. However, I still dont like him, at all, and I think he is a below average manager, at best. As PMR said, when he is winning these division titles, its in a very, very weak division (and still takes 163 games at times), and it shows, cuz as soon as they hit the playoffs, they get destroyed.

I think some of these wins are by default. Typically he would pull the starting pitchers earlier than he is now, but even he can see our bullpen is absolutely ####, so he keeps the starter in past the 100 pitch count. As far as the starting rotation he has assembled, I dont like it, and thats on him. We have no ace, all contact pitchers, and no real closer IMO.. We have a good #2 or maybe a couple decent #2s, but when the Twins go against teams like the Yankees, who can hit, throwing a contact pitcher out there everyday in a playoff series, doesnt work, they catch up to them, and hit em out.

Injuries have obviously hurt them this season, and it happens, but honestly, before Mauer was hurt what was his average??? Nothing special. Morneau is hitting .225 with 4 homeruns??? Kub is the only Twin hitting over .300.

27th in runs allowed
27th in runs
23rd in BA
28th in OP BA
28th in home runs
23rd in Homeruns allowed
27th in ERA

Thats not impressive, at all. The last 8-9 games we have played well. So good for Guardy and the Twins, I hope they keep it up long enough to see him choke it away in the first round of the playoffs AGAIN.

[vikeinmontana]

cool. thanks guys. that is pretty much where i stand as well. the guy flat out needs to learn to win in the post season. it's ridiculous how long it's been since we've been out of the first round. so if and when we get there this season (big if) i will judge him on that then.

but for this season, so far i have thought he has done a pretty good job. you won't find a team more decimated with injuries than the twins. i still think if we can get within 6-7 games back by the all star break we have a shot at winning the division again. for how we started the year, if we could win this division i think that would be remarkable. however, the post-season is a new season, and if we were to get in only to be booted after the first round again....i don't care how good of a job gardy did getting us to that point.

so in a nutshell....i think he's doing pretty well right now, and if he manages us into the playoffs his performance would be amazing in my opinion. but if he once again can't figure out how to win a series in the playoffs...we need to find someone who can.

not sure we're gonna be able to see how this unfolds as we are still a long shot of getting in. at least we are playing a brand of ball fun to watch right now which i couldn't say a month ago!

[PurpleMustReign]

Allow me to mention one other thing I can't stand about Gardenhire... he is not demanding toughness from his players. I find it impossible to believe that all of the injuries on the Twins this season warrant missing games like this. No I don't know the "pain" these players are in, but when you have this many players on the DL, some of these guys need to play through the pain. Be men for Christ's sake.