Mitchell Investigation

wang_chi7 · Post by **wang_chi7** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:41 pm

The baseball report on steroids comes out today, press conference at noon central time (ESPN and ESPNEWS.) Clemens's name leaked so far, supposedly Pettitte is also on the list. I heard 60-80 names will be on it, I'm guessing most will be guys who weren't stars but it sounds like there isn't a shortage of big names in the report.

wang_chi7 · Post by **wang_chi7** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:06 pm

I just got done with classes and am behind on the reporting, but I've heard Clemens, Pettite, Troy Glaus, Jason Giambi, Miguel Tejada, Rick Ankiel were mentioned. Thats only a few names. I'm going to start watching the coverage and post any names mentioned that are of note.

It is being broadcast on mlb.com for those at work or without ESPN.

I hope some more big names come to light, but am severely hoping Griffey and some of my other players aren't guilty. It would break my heart.

Skoobs78 · Post by **Skoobs78** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:02 pm

Wow, so many names, heres a link to all of them, Rondell White is on it, so much for "performance enhancing" drugs.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=y ... &type=lgns

DeeEss57 · Post by **DeeEss57** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:21 pm

Skoobs78 wrote:Wow, so many names, heres a link to all of them, Rondell White is on it, so much for "performance enhancing" drugs

.

I agree with you. Wow!

There's a vote on AOL asking if all of the players named should be banned from the HOF. It's running two to one for banning, with over 27,000 votes.

Dawn

wang_chi7 · Post by **wang_chi7** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:22 pm

Skoobs78 wrote:Wow, so many names, heres a link to all of them, Rondell White is on it, so much for "performance enhancing" drugs.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=y ... &type=lgns

Thanks for the list, I find it interesting that the majority of names issued are "new names." Thats not what I was expecting, but am glad to hear.

Knoblauch? He must have accidentally taken an anti-throwing pill instead.

Not a lot of surprises (Byrd was a surprise be he was outed in October), and a few guys I never heard of. Not a surprise that most are marginal players:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=3881

Mr. X · Post by **Mr. X** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:26 pm

Tip of the Iceberg.

No Mark McGwire? What?

Contrary to popular opinion the Mitchell Investigation really wasn't much of an investigation. He had the cooperation of one (count em one) player, Jason Giambi. From what I've read he didn't get any new information from Giambi that wasn't available to him from the BALCO case.

What Mitchell was able to do was to have access to the two or three criminal investigations that were underway. Without those investigations he probably wouldn't have much. Imagine if Mitchell had subpoena power and the ability to compel testimony. What do you think the results would be? Probably would be easier to list the guys who were clean than list the guys who were dirty.

The players and their union did everything they could to neuter the Mitchell Investigation and yet there are still all these names coming out.

HardcoreVikesFan · Post by **HardcoreVikesFan** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:59 pm

Holy crap! That many people took steroids, and got away with it for awhile. I wonder what they would find if they did this in the NFL?

Colinito · Post by **Colinito** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:00 pm

I agree with you there X.

And what's crazy is that the NFL gets like ZERO scrutiny. In both sports, they figure to be quite common, maybe even more so in football.

44_viking · Post by **44_viking** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:13 pm

Mr. X wrote:Tip of the Iceberg.

No Mark McGwire? What?

Contrary to popular opinion the Mitchell Investigation really wasn't much of an investigation. He had the cooperation of one (count em one) player, Jason Giambi. From what I've read he didn't get any new information from Giambi that wasn't available to him from the BALCO case.

What Mitchell was able to do was to have access to the two or three criminal investigations that were underway. Without those investigations he probably wouldn't have much. Imagine if Mitchell had subpoena power and the ability to compel testimony. What do you think the results would be? Probably would be easier to list the guys who were clean than list the guys who were dirty.

The players and their union did everything they could to neuter the Mitchell Investigation and yet there are still all these names coming out.

I read elsewhere that Big Mac and Sosa are listed in the report, but I didn't see their names on the list I looked at.

I don't know what to think of all this anymore....

wang_chi7 · Post by **wang_chi7** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:18 pm

Mr. X wrote:Tip of the Iceberg.

No Mark McGwire? What?

Contrary to popular opinion the Mitchell Investigation really wasn't much of an investigation. He had the cooperation of one (count em one) player, Jason Giambi. From what I've read he didn't get any new information from Giambi that wasn't available to him from the BALCO case.

What Mitchell was able to do was to have access to the two or three criminal investigations that were underway. Without those investigations he probably wouldn't have much. Imagine if Mitchell had subpoena power and the ability to compel testimony. What do you think the results would be? Probably would be easier to list the guys who were clean than list the guys who were dirty.

The players and their union did everything they could to neuter the Mitchell Investigation and yet there are still all these names coming out.

McGwire's in the report.

I totally agree with you on that Mitchell had very little to work with, but with Selig as Commish that ain't a surprise. He did a great job with what he had. Some of the players listed have very little backing (Brian Roberts) but others are very damning (Pettitte and Clemens.) Fair warning to all, the players listed aren't all on an even field in that some have barely any evidence.

Some of these players were asking to get caught IMO, cancelled checks and such were some of the evidence. Who would pay in anything but cash? Idiots.

DanAS1 · Post by **DanAS1** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:30 pm

DeeEss57 wrote:.

I agree with you. Wow!

There's a vote on AOL asking if all of the players named should be banned from the HOF. It's running two to one for banning, with over 27,000 votes.

Dawn

I originally thought that if you could establish the time they started and that they already had MVP credentials (like Bonds or Clemons), maybe they should be let in. But maybe you can't really know when they started, and if not, then no they shouldn't be let in.

This sport is so corrupt it isn't funny. Remember the "contraction" talks? That was a high point for me. What a bunch of schmucks.

DanAS1 · Post by **DanAS1** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:31 pm

wang_chi7 wrote:
Some of these players were asking to get caught IMO, cancelled checks and such were some of the evidence. Who would pay in anything but cash? Idiots.

Amazing, isn't it? These people are so arrogant they think they can get away with anything.

And maybe they can.

wang_chi7 · Post by **wang_chi7** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:37 pm

Colinito wrote:And what's crazy is that the NFL gets like ZERO scrutiny. In both sports, they figure to be quite common, maybe even more so in football.

Count me in on that group too, with the nature of the game and the size of everybody in the league I believe they have just as bad a problem but have had a better track record so they get a pass. It doesn't help either that baseball is very tied to individual performance and people don't want players passing Aaron who are cheats. In football using roids just makes people hit harder, move faster, etc. and doesn't effect as much the record book.

There's been many documented case of use in the NFL including Merriman last year (who still gets a national commercial and people love, we don't see that with Bonds who hasn't even failed a test), Bill Romanoski (who was part of BALCO but people ignore), Lyle Alzado, Chris Cooper (BALCO), Rodney Harrison (HGH), Barret Robbins, Dana Stubblefield (BALCO), Mike Golic.

Yet little scrutiny. Yes, they should get credit for trying to stop it when baseball was doing nothing, but neither one is stopping HGH (they can't detect it) and there is reason to believe its a major problem in both sports. I'm glad to hear (via Selig's press conf.) that they are working together on funding for a urine test.

wang_chi7 · Post by **wang_chi7** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:41 pm

DanAS1 wrote: I originally thought that if you could establish the time they started and that they already had MVP credentials (like Bonds or Clemons), maybe they should be let in. But maybe you can't really know when they started, and if not, then no they shouldn't be let in.

This sport is so corrupt it isn't funny. Remember the "contraction" talks? That was a high point for me. What a bunch of schmucks.

The contraction talks were a complete joke. I wouldn't mind seeing two teams contracted and a return to 2 divisions per league, but picking Minnesota was just a stupid choice (especially in hindsite.) The team has a history of a good fan base and has been much more competitive than the Brewers. Oh wait, Bud owns that team (OK not technically, but you know.)

Actually I would have picked the Devil Rays (along with the obvious Expos) as they had only been around for 4 years, theres already one other struggling FL franchise, and they have never been competitive. They do now have a core of good young players finally, but we'll see. Heck, they could have just contracted the newest teams just by figuring they had the least history (though AZ had just won the WS.)

vikingman · Post by **vikingman** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:58 pm

wang_chi7 wrote: McGwire's in the report.

I totally agree with you on that Mitchell had very little to work with, but with Selig as Commish that ain't a surprise. He did a great job with what he had. Some of the players listed have very little backing (Brian Roberts) but others are very #### (Pettitte and Clemens.) Fair warning to all, the players listed aren't all on an even field in that some have barely any evidence.

Some of these players were asking to get caught IMO, cancelled checks and such were some of the evidence. Who would pay in anything but cash? Idiots.

I don't think they cared about getting caught as they all knew that the Commish wouldn't do anything about it. It will be interesting to see what they do about this now. Baseball is in a downhill spiral and IMO is not the American past time anymore and that is a shame. Don't get me wrong I will still follow my Cubs (don't laugh everyone) they will win a WORLD SERIES before I die.