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Yep the Doc says-

"Landis has been using cortisone -- approved by UCI -- for his arthritic hip, and corticosteroids can cause this kind of imbalance. Even if the B sample tests positive this is going to take a long time to sort out for exactly that reason. "


Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:12 pm
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Nice! Armstrong used the same thing when it did come up, because of his illness. *shrug* Whatever, really makes no difference to me. Some will believe, some won't.


Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:16 pm
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The following article is truncated from the longer original:

Phil Liggett @ The Telegraph wrote:

Question is why when he knew he'd be caught


My first reaction to the news that Floyd Landis had returned a positive test during the 17th stage of the Tour de France between St Jean de Maurienne and Morzine was one of extreme sadness, and the huge question: "Why?"

The organisers had sent out a clear message that dopers would not be tolerated, even though those sent away left protesting their innocence, and still do. This year's Tour seemed "clean" as riders had good days and bad, something which doesn't always happen if the drugs are kicking in. Landis himself collapsed on stage 16 to La Toussuire in the Alps and then, rehydrated overnight, he won the fateful stage 17 to Morzine by almost six minutes.

There are many questions to be answered before Landis is condemned. The first is why win the stage knowing that the winner is automatically drugs-tested and when finding unusual testosterone levels in a testing laboratory is an easy thing to do? Landis would have also been tested at least three times previously as race leader, too, and these presumably have been negative as only stage 17 is under discussion.

The quiet but determined American was genuinely happy when he finished at Morzine. He arrived punching the air. Landis has never failed a drugs test in his career and this season was enjoying his best run of victories yet, all of which would have carried compulsory drugs tests. His wins in America and France since February have all been achieved despite a dying femur bone which will mean a replacement hip soon.

The Tour de France organisers have been "saddened" by yesterday's revelations, but the second test has still to confirm the first. There is a possibility that Landis has over-produced testosterone and, if so, I hope he will be completely vindicated.


Full Story at Telegraph.uk

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Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:27 pm
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Dennis Mann for Fox News and Web MD wrote:
Testosterone Effects Not Immediate

At one point in the three-week race, it seemed as though Landis was petering out. But "an injection of testosterone is not some sort of miracle, immediate boost like an amphetamine or stimulant," Collins says. "Athletes who use testosterone use it over a fairly long course and the benefit accumulates over a period of time."

Testosterone would not account for his comeback, Collins stresses.

"A single shot of testosterone would provide little or no benefit."

John Eliot, PhD, a professor of human performance at Rice University in Houston, and the author of "Overachievement," agrees with Collins.

"The likelihood [that he used illegal substances] seems small to me," he tells WebMD.


Experts: Possible Explanations for Landis' Testosterone Levels

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Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:39 pm
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Or it could be from something the "experts" know nothing about!

Why do it? Maybe because prior to that he had *zero* chance of winning without it! It was that, or end up just another biker that finished somewhere in the middle and after surgery possibly not even ride again. Who knows, I'm leaning towards him being cleared though, because that's the way it works.


Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:39 pm
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Enjoy reading-

http://web.mit.edu/hudson/www/ttypes.html#esters


Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:50 pm
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Quote:
Or it could be from something the "experts" know nothing about!


That is a possibility, but he knew he would be tested if he won the stage; it was a mandatory test.

Landis had won the Tour de Georgia and the Tour of California, and he was tested for those races. He was also tested prior to and during the Tour de France on every stage he was in the yellow. One blast of steroids or even just added testosterone would do little to nothing, so the question of why is a valid one.

Maybe he had good sex with his wife, and he wanted more after the win!

That could get his testosterone up!

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Last edited by Minniman on Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:13 pm
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Quote:
Who knows, I'm leaning towards him being cleared though, because that's the way it works.


Not in bicycling.

Top riders Marco Pantani, Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso, Francisco Mancebo, Tyler Hamilton, and Richard Virenque have all been caught with substances or have been implicated in blood doping schemes and banned for partial, whole, or multiple seasons.

The Comunidad Valenciana team was withdrawn from this season's Tour of Spain. Roberto Heras was stripped of his win in last years Tour of Spain and banned for two years after failing an EPO test.

Bud Selig isn't in charge.

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Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:37 pm
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Ah, I was going by the comments of a member of the, I believe olympic drug testing council, not sure exact name, who claimed the bicycling drug tests were rather lax. Since the bikers were given an hour post race un chaperoned to do as they please, as well as days pre-race to do as they please, which would include any way around drug tests. I'm not big into cycling, just from what I've heard it's fairly tough, but there are glaring weaknesses.


Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:11 am
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Minniman wrote:
Maybe he had good sex with his wife, and he wanted more after the win!



Or maybe his wife told him, "Win and you get good sex." That would make me win the Decathalon if my wife said that.

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Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:48 am
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They blamed Lance Armstrong for doing this several times
and could never prove it. God the french are a bunch of weenies
the must be 49er fans :lol:

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Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:41 pm
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MADRID, Spain — Floyd Landis said the high testosterone levels that caused him to fail a drug test at the Tour de France are the result of his natural metabolism — not doping of any kind — and he will undergo tests to prove it.

"We will explain to the world why this is not a doping case but a natural occurrence," Landis said.

But on Friday he was adamant that the reading is the result of his natural physiology.

"I would like to make absolutely clear that I am not in any doping process," Landis said. "I ask not to be judged by anyone, much less sentenced by anyone."

"I declare convincingly and categorically that my winning the Tour de France has been exclusively due to many years of training and my complete devotion to cycling," he said. "I was the strongest guy. I deserved to win, and I'm proud of it."


Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:35 pm
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And Bonds, McGwire, etc etc just have naturally high levels of HGH and anabolic steroids! :lol:

Let me use the same thing others used to defend him, "Why didnt this show up in other tests then" ESPECIALLY if it's natural! If he's using something, that' exactly why it didnt show up, he wasnt, or didnt, use it before


Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:27 pm
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Post really I dont care
If they had more crashes like the one where the guy flipped
over the guard rail I would watch more highlights of the tour
I quess. Bottom line is I dont care about soccer or Tour De France.

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Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:28 pm
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CNN International wrote:
NEW YORK - Some of the testosterone found in Tour de France winner Floyd Landis' "A" sample is from an external source and not his body's, the New York Times said on Tuesday, quoting an unidentified International Cycling Union official.

The carbon isotope test on the first of Landis' two urine samples taken after his 17th stage win in last month's tour contains synthetic testosterone, said the official, with knowledge of the results from France's Chatenay-Malabry antidoping laboratory.

The results, if confirmed by Landis' B sample, which the newspaper said the laboratory has agreed to test later this week, could make Landis the first Tour champion to be stripped of his title.

The 30-year-old American, who could also be banned from the Tour for two years, has protested his innocence to the UCI.

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Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:43 am
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Testosterone, epitestosterone and the doping tests

There are two alternate methods currently in place to detect testosterone misuse. The first is to examine the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. Epitestosterone also is produced naturally in the body; it is chemically identical to testosterone with the exception of the hydroxyl group on C-17. A study of nearly 4000 male athletes reported the median T/E ratio to 1/1 with 99 percent of the men having a ratio less than 5.6/1. Another sample of about 5000 male athletes found the mean ratio to be 1.5/1.

Because testosterone cannot be converted to epitestosterone, an elevated ratio suggests doping; moreover, exogenous testosterone lowers the body's production of epitestosterone, further increasing the T/E ratio. In 1982, the IOC Medical Commission set a T/E ratio of 6/1 as the cut-off value for a positive test; WADA recently lowered the threshold to 4/1. The prevalence of urinary T/E ratio greater than 6/1 in healthy, non-steroid users is less than 0.8 percent. However, there are documented cases of non-doping athletes with T/E ratios greater than 6/1; as a result, additional testing is required to determine the etiology of the elevated ratio.

WADA's Guidelines describe two different approaches to determine if the increased T/E ratio is due to a physiological or pathological condition or to administration of exogenous hormones. The first approach determines the athlete's usual T/E ratio. If an athlete's urine test produces a ratio that is above 4/1, at least three additional samples must be tested. These may be samples that were previously collected and analyzed or unannounced future tests.

The second approach outlined in the WADA Guideline relies on subtle differences in exogenous versus endogenous testosterone. Pharmaceutical companies make testosterone starting with sterols derived from plants. The most abundant isotope[1] of carbon is 12C; 13C and 14C, occur naturally, but are much less abundant.

As it turns out, the semi-synthetic testosterone has less 13C than the testosterone made in the body. The amounts of these carbon isotopes are measured using a method called Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry (IRMS). A urine sample that is low in 13C, compared to a standard of endogenous testosterone indicates doping. [French newspaper l'Equipe alleged over the weekend that an IRMS test indicated exogenous testosterone in Floyd Landis' sample - Ed].


Complete Story at Cycling News

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Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:04 am
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This isn't just about the Tour, it's mainly about the impact of news of both Landis and Justin Gatlin testing positive so closely together. It's from The Times newspaper in England and written by Simon Barnes, a former UK Sports Writer of the Year:

Quote:
War on drugs claims one of its biggest scalps in Gatlin

BEN JOHNSON responded to the news that Justin Gatlin had failed a dope test in his own uncompromising fashion. He said that no one cares about who took what: all people want to see is how fast the human body can go.

It is a fascinating point, and it is not too much to say that the future of sport depends on its resolution. Gatlin is the world and Olympic 100 metres champion, the fastest man on Earth. He shares the world record of 9.77sec — two spots faster than Johnson — with Asafa Powell. Now he has failed a dope test and his entire life’s work is in question.

The news broke a couple of days after Floyd Landis, the winner of the Tour de France, also failed a drugs test. These two immensely high-profile busts seem to offer sport a stark choice. Do we give up on the drug-addled sports? Or do we give up on drug-testing? There doesn’t seem to be a third option.

It is 18 years since Johnson tested positive after winning the 100 metres at the Olympic Games in Seoul. After that landmark event, what has happened to athletics? And what has happened to all sports that reward the drug-taker? Optimists felt that the Johnson bust would shock sport and athletes into honesty: if Johnson gets caught, then surely anybody who even sniffs at a steroid is vulnerable. But instead, one positive test has followed another; one champion after another has been found guilty.

Much of sport has become an arms race between testers and testees. With every positive test, you wonder how many more got away with something.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 69,00.html

I don't know if Americans can access the article or not, but I'll do the normal "post a small portion with a link" routine. If you aren't allowed access to it, let me know and I'll see if The Powers That Be wwill let me post it in it's entirety.

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Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:06 am
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Demi wrote:
Ah, I was going by the comments of a member of the, I believe olympic drug testing council, not sure exact name, who claimed the bicycling drug tests were rather lax. Since the bikers were given an hour post race un chaperoned to do as they please, as well as days pre-race to do as they please, which would include any way around drug tests. I'm not big into cycling, just from what I've heard it's fairly tough, but there are glaring weaknesses.


The good news for me is that I don't care much about cycling. I mean seriously, one can only spend so much time following sports. There's football, baseball, basketball, boxing, tennis, soccer, hockey ...

Admittedly, I've had some extra time on my hands since co-k fighting season ended in the spring. But I've used that time on watching professional women's softball, not cycling.


Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:03 pm
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I have been a fan of cycling since the early 1980's. Drug use has been a problem since before that time. It has been in other sports as well, but professional bicycling is trying to do something about it.

It doesn't matter if one follows a sport or not; cheating is a bad thing in any sport.

Minniman

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Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:05 pm
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Minniman wrote:
I have been a fan of cycling since the early 1980's. Drug use has been a problem since before that time. It has been in other sports as well, but professional bicycling is trying to do something about it.

It doesn't matter if one follows a sport or not; cheating is a bad thing in any sport.

Minniman


I don't disagree. I'm a fraud specialist. Nobody hates cheating more than I do. But I'll wait for more information before forming any firm conclusions about this situation. Obviously, right now, I'm suspicious of the guy.

By the way, did you hear Robert Smith on TV completely trivialize the steroid scandal in baseball? (Saying at one point, "who cares" -- when obviously lots of people do.) Now THAT did bother me, because I hate cheating ... and because I'm a baseball fan. I'm starting to wonder given the way Smith talks, and given how smart he was when he came into the league, if he took too many blows to the old brain.


Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:59 pm
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Quote:
But I'll wait for more information before forming any firm conclusions about this situation. Obviously, right now, I'm suspicious of the guy.


That's where I am at. I am in a "just wait and see" mode.

Quote:
By the way, did you hear Robert Smith on TV completely trivialize the steroid scandal in baseball? (Saying at one point, "who cares" -- when obviously lots of people do.) Now THAT did bother me, because I hate cheating ... and because I'm a baseball fan.


Major League Baseball is a sham. I have said so many times. I have little respect for a league that will sell its soul for a home run race and believes that allowing big market clubs to cheat with the pocketbook is against everything that we try to teach kids about sports. I guess it really is American as apple pie, and that is sad.

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Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:11 pm
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Minniman wrote:

Major League Baseball is a sham. I have said so many times. I have little respect for a league that will sell its soul for a home run race and believes that allowing big market clubs to cheat with the pocketbook is against everything that we try to teach kids about sports. I guess it really is American as apple pie, and that is sad.

Minniman


I just love the sport too much not to follow it, though I admit to have boycotted it completely for one year in the mid 90s. What I really hate is the way it's covered by the "sports journalists," who pretty much give a total pass to the league for all its inequities. The "journalists" recognize that steroids are a problem. But the idea of the Yanks buying superstars every year seems to them to be an acceptable natural occurence, kind of like the Sun rising in the east.


Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:20 pm
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Breaking News! Landis declares "I have naturally high levels of synthetic steroids!" What a joke.

It's getting to the point where the only way to get an even playing field is to give up and just let everyone use whatever they want. :(


Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:03 pm
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AP wrote:
Floyd Landis' "B" test positive, may lose Tour de France title

PARIS – Floyd Landis was fired by his team and the Tour de France no longer considered him its champion today after his second doping sample tested positive for higher-than-allowable levels of testosterone.

Full Story at The Seattle Times

This is bad news.

What I do not understand is that this foolproof test showed these results in one stage but none other in the Tour de France, Tour de Georgia, and Tour of California. Adding steroids for one stage would do little for the body.

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Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:01 am
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I'm still believing it wasnt steroids, it wasnt any of the big name designer substances. It was something to give him a boost for that day, what it was, I have no idea, I'm not a chemist or biosuperdrug creatorist. But I had my eyes open wide enough to know the tour de france is a sham. And these americans that the french are paranoid of with a deep seeded unexplainable hatred for arent near as clean as the american public likes to believe...


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Demi wrote:
I'm still believing it wasnt steroids, it wasnt any of the big name designer substances. It was something to give him a boost for that day, what it was, I have no idea, I'm not a chemist or biosuperdrug creatorist. But I had my eyes open wide enough to know the tour de france is a sham. And these americans that the french are paranoid of with a deep seeded unexplainable hatred for arent near as clean as the american public likes to believe...


Nothing testosterone based would give that kind of one day jump. For that, it'd be something more of an amphetamine.


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Post Re: Tour de France
And 4 years later .......

NEW YORK — Disgraced American cyclist Floyd Landis has admitted to systematic use of performance-enhancing drugs and accused seven-time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong of involvement in doping, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title for doping but had always denied cheating, sent a series of e-mails to cycling officials and sponsors acknowledging and detailing his long-term use of banned drugs, the newspaper said.

.......

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... gD9FQLBN00

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Thu May 20, 2010 11:45 am
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Post Re: Tour de France
jeg067 wrote:
And 4 years later .......

NEW YORK — Disgraced American cyclist Floyd Landis has admitted to systematic use of performance-enhancing drugs and accused seven-time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong of involvement in doping, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title for doping but had always denied cheating, sent a series of e-mails to cycling officials and sponsors acknowledging and detailing his long-term use of banned drugs, the newspaper said.

.......

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... gD9FQLBN00



Moron. Cheater. Liar.

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Thu May 20, 2010 5:47 pm
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Post Re: Tour de France
jeg067 wrote:
And 4 years later .......

NEW YORK — Disgraced American cyclist Floyd Landis has admitted to systematic use of performance-enhancing drugs and accused seven-time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong of involvement in doping, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title for doping but had always denied cheating, sent a series of e-mails to cycling officials and sponsors acknowledging and detailing his long-term use of banned drugs, the newspaper said.

.......

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... gD9FQLBN00


And instead of just admitting he was wrong,he goes outs and accuses Armstrong of cheating...

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Sun May 23, 2010 6:51 pm
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Post Re: Tour de France
Now its our time wrote:

And instead of just admitting he was wrong,he goes outs and accuses Armstrong of cheating...


And 3 years later .......

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