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 Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Officials 
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Post Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Officials
It's been a frustrating few weeks watching teams visit Lambeau and lose based in no small part on plays in which Aaron Rodgers baits pass rushers into jumping offsides. Obviously Rodgers' talent for doing this is part of why he's been such a successful quarterback—but over the past few weeks, it's become clear that officiating crews are all too eager to help him run "free plays" that, under the rules, he and the Packers do not actually deserve to run.

It started in last week's Sunday Night game against Seattle; as Seahawks coach Pete Carroll noted days later, a mid-game "free play" on which Richard Sherman was called for a 52-yard pass-interference penalty should never have been allowed to continue past the snap:
Quote:
That play came near the end of the first half. Carroll's argument wasn't about whether or not the Seahawks had jumped offsides, which defensive end Michael Bennett clearly did. It's what happened afterward – or more precisely, what didn't happen – that he believes constituted an officiating error.

"We jump offsides, their offensive line, the right guard and tackle stand up, the play's dead," Carroll said. "That thing never happened. It never should have happened."

The right side of Green Bay's offensive line popped up after Seattle jumped offsides but before the ball was snapped. As Carroll noted, that should have resulted in the play being whistled dead. Instead, Rodgers threw deep into double coverage -- knowing he had a free play -- and cornerback Richard Sherman was flagged for pass interference.

The Packers were on their own 13-yard line at the time, leading 10-3 with 52 seconds left in the second quarter. They didn't have any timeouts remaining, either, which means their only realistic shot at scoring was with a big play. They got one by virtue of a pass-interference penalty that also stopped the clock. The Packers kicked a field goal five plays later to take a 13-3 halftime lead.

- "Pete Carroll laments 'total mistake on the officials' part' vs. Green Bay"

Carroll is simply correct: under the NFL's Rule 7, Article 4(b), it is a neutral zone infraction when
Quote:
a defender enters the neutral zone prior to the snap, causing the offensive player(s) in close proximity (including a quarterback who is under center) to react (move) immediately to protect himself (themselves) against impending contact; officials are to blow their whistles immediately.
Illustrative example A.R. 7.22 addresses the situation as well:
Quote:
Second-and-10 on B30. Defensive tackle B1’s initial charge into neutral zone makes offensive guard A1 directly across from him flinch and draw back.
Ruling: Blow the whistle immediately. Penalize B1 for a neutral zone infraction. A’s ball second-and-5 on B25.

Unfortunately, this is not what happened last Sunday night; even though two Green Bay offensive linemen false-started as the result of (or with the intent of calling attention to) Bennett's offsides, the officials simply ignored it, allowing Rodgers to put up a bomb that resulted in Sherman's pass-interference penalty.

On the NBC studio halftime show, Tony Dungy actually obliquely pointed out this officiating mistake. No one else on the network followed up on the problem, and the commentators at Lambeau never mentioned it.

Well, to add double insult to the Seahawks' injury, the same thing happened again TWICE last night, in the Packers' win over Kansas City. Rodgers was gifted two free plays—a 26-yard touchdown pass in the second quarter and a 52-yard bomb early in the fourth—when Chiefs defenders jumped offside and one or more Packers offensive linemen (LT Tony Bakhtiari both times, LG Josh Sitton on the first play) moved before the snap. Rather than stop play, as the rule above requires, and award the Packers a five-yard neutral-zone-infraction penalty, in both cases the officials wrongly allowed play to continue, to the home team's overwhelming benefit.

It is most infuriating that the Green Bay Packers are allowed to play by different rules than the rest of the league is.


Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:12 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
That is really frustrating, but I wonder if it's a Green Bay issue or if the officials are doing a poor job of making the call league wide.

Regardless, hopefully it is fixed soon.


Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:51 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
With the exception of maybe the specific play that Carrol was crying about, literally all you posted, was a long winded version of "They were only offsides cause the Offense had a false start!" which, needless to say, is rather subjective territory.

I could make the same claim every Packers False start or Offsides, and it would be just as baseless and immature as when you do it.

Did you see the gifted 4th down conversion gifted to the Chiefs? Or perhaps the constant blatant holding commited by Sherman the week before? Oh gee! Those damn refs let the Chiefs and Seahawks do whatever they want! :roll: :lol:

Its all moot anyways, I see the same thing occur on offsides penalties across the league, its just, most arent as good at taking advantage as A-Rod. I dont see offsides that get blown down very often if the defender isnt unabated to the QB.

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Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:13 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Jordysghost wrote:
With the exception of maybe the specific play that Carrol was crying about, literally all you posted, was a long winded version of "They were only offsides cause the Offense had a false start!" which, needless to say, is rather subjective territory.

I'd call my post "complete" rather than "long winded," but that is, indeed, subjective.

But oddly, despite the exhaustive attempt I made to describe the problem, it appears you still don't understand it. There is no contention—not from Carroll, not from Dungy, not from me, and not (AFAIK) from Andy Reid or the Chiefs—that "They were only offsides [be]cause the Offense had a false start!" That's clearly not true; the Seattle and Kansas City defenders were obviously offsides because they were fooled by the hard count from Rodgers. Quite obviously it's the false starts that were caused by the defenders' neutral-zone infractions: on both plays last night, Bakhtiari jumped up immediately, pointing at the offsides defender, with the clear intention of emphasizing to the officials that the defender had jumped offside.

Under NFL rules, that results in a stoppage of play (and a penalty on (hello?!) the defense). Under the special rules that are applied to the Green Bay Packers in Lambeau Field (as now demonstrated three times in two weeks), the play proceeds so that Aaron Rodgers can throw a bomb.

Quote:
I could make the same claim every Packers False start or Offsides....

No, actually, you couldn't. You don't even understand what's going on here—what Carroll, Dungy, and I are talking about.

Quote:
Did you see the gifted 4th down conversion gifted to the Chiefs?

The play on which the officials spotted the ball at the place they believed the receiver had been tackled, and then the Packers didn't have a time out left to allow them to challenge the spot? Yeah, I saw that. There is no rule interpretation at issue there; if the officials missed the spot, that's what instant replay is intended for.

We're not talking about mere arguably missed judgment calls here; we're talking about rules that, for mysterious reasons, don't get applied when it benefits the Packers in Lambeau.

Quote:
Or perhaps the constant blatant holding commited by Sherman the week before?

As compared to all of the blatant holding that the Packers offensive line commits every time Rodgers scrambles? I think any Green Bay opponent would be happy to trade flag-for-flag on those kinds of plays. But again, this thread is not about a difference of opinion on a judgment call. It's about the direct defiance of Rule 7, Article 4(b), on three separate occasions in two games—to the benefit of a 26-yard touchdown, a 52-yard pass completion and a 52-yard pass-interference penalty for the Packers on three plays that, as Carroll put it, "never should have happened."

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I dont see offsides that get blown down very often if the defender isnt unabated to the QB.

Nor, under the rule, should you "see" that "very often." The rule provides that, barring encroachment or an unabated defender, the play is only supposed to be blown dead if an offensive player also false starts. Which, in most cases of defensive offsides, doesn't happen. So that's irrelevant.


Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:35 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Sorry Jordy... I usually just roll my eyes at "Officiating crews play favorites" But these are clear cut cases of rules not being applied.

This isn't not getting a flag or a subjective things this is literally the chain of action not be completed on a penalty. This is literally no different then the crew skipping a PAT and just giving it to someone or skipping a kick off and spotting someone at the 20


play needs to be blown dead when the lineman stands up and points it out. Period. Its the rule. Its not a judgment call.


I won't say this is some sort of pro Green Bay conspiracy but it seems to have become the norm to let these plays happen like this and Rodgers seems to become the king of it.

It is black and white a rule violation that needs to be corrected by the officiating crew.


Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:04 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Again, the calls in which you refer to are rightly or wrongly, rather consistant throughout the league, the fact is, whether or not this should be the case, is that the play is rarely blown dead unless the defender is unabated to the QB, you just hate the Packers so you tell yourself otherwise. I seriously am surprised that the rule is what it is, because it is almost never enforced, not just with the Packers, but the entire league. Sounds to me like your problem should be the inconsistancy between the rulebook and the enforcement of said rulebook.

Exactly what you are complaining about, occurs across the league pretty consistently, its just, your not going to see or accept it, because you would rather just believe that it is because the refs love the Packers, which the fail mary, (The most poorly, and incorrectly officiated final drive in NFL history) clearly proves to be 100% asininely incorrect. :)

Lol I was only using the Shermans holding as an example to show you how whiny you sound, and it only leads you to cry about the refs even more. (facepalm)

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Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:14 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Jordysghost wrote:
Again, the calls in which you refer to are rightly or wrongly, rather consistant throughout the league, the fact is, whether or not this should be the case, is that the play is rarely blown dead unless the defender is unabated to the QB, you just hate the Packers so you tell yourself otherwise. I seriously am surprised that the rule is what it is, because it is almost never enforced, not just with the Packers, but the entire league. Sounds to me like your problem should be the inconsistancy between the rulebook and the enforcement of said rulebook.

Exactly what you are complaining about, occurs across the league pretty consistently, its just, your not going to see or accept it, because you would rather just believe that it is because the refs love the Packers, which the fail mary, (The most poorly, and incorrectly officiated final drive in NFL history) clearly proves to be 100% asininely incorrect. :)

Lol I was only using the Shermans holding as an example to show you how whiny you sound, and it only leads you to cry about the refs even more. (facepalm)




I literally just said it happens across the league, just that rodgers has gotten good at abusing it...


Clearly WE are frothing at our purple mouth and incapable of rational thought

But since you are totally neutral in this your opinion should carry the weight :roll:


We get rule grey areas happen

but this is a black and white rule NOT being enforced.


Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:17 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
IrishViking wrote:

It is black and white a rule violation that needs to be corrected by the officiating crew.


Maybe so, but to claim that it is an attempt by the refs to assist the Packers is completely asinine, again, look around the league and tell me how often you see this rule actually entorced, it woukd be one thing to point out a flaw in the officiating, but to claim that it only goes in favor of the Packers is silly.

As to it being a black and white rule violation, it really isnt any more black and white then a DB making contact over 10 yards past the LOS and not being called, that is also a clear violation of the rules that theoretically couldn't be considered a 'judgement' call, being that contact is contact.

There is alot of inconsistency amongst how NFL refs call games, but claiming its because they 'love' one team is downright childish, every team in the league thinks the top dog in their division is some sort of favirote, i wonder why..

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Last edited by Jordysghost on Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:24 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
IrishViking wrote:
Jordysghost wrote:
Again, the calls in which you refer to are rightly or wrongly, rather consistant throughout the league, the fact is, whether or not this should be the case, is that the play is rarely blown dead unless the defender is unabated to the QB, you just hate the Packers so you tell yourself otherwise. I seriously am surprised that the rule is what it is, because it is almost never enforced, not just with the Packers, but the entire league. Sounds to me like your problem should be the inconsistancy between the rulebook and the enforcement of said rulebook.

Exactly what you are complaining about, occurs across the league pretty consistently, its just, your not going to see or accept it, because you would rather just believe that it is because the refs love the Packers, which the fail mary, (The most poorly, and incorrectly officiated final drive in NFL history) clearly proves to be 100% asininely incorrect. :)

Lol I was only using the Shermans holding as an example to show you how whiny you sound, and it only leads you to cry about the refs even more. (facepalm)




I literally just said it happens across the league, just that rodgers has gotten good at abusing it...


Clearly WE are frothing at our purple mouth and incapable of rational thought

But since you are totally neutral in this your opinion should carry the weight :roll:


We get rule grey areas happen

but this is a black and white rule NOT being enforced.


Again, how is this any more black and white then some of the other questionable calls around the league? Grabbing a facemask is a penalty, no grey area in sight, making contact with a WR past 5 yards past the LOS is a penalty, no grey area in sight, and yet, those are both also inconsistently called.

What makes this anymore black and white then those do?

BTW, I never said anyone was frothing at the mouth, but claiming that a rule that is inconsistently called throughout the league is being broken for the clear purpose of helping the Packers is childish and silly.

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Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:30 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
because those are dependent on witnessing the action occurring


This is someone simply not calling the next action in the chain of rules.


Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:34 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
IrishViking wrote:
because those are dependent on witnessing the action occurring


This is someone simply not calling the next action in the chain of rules.


That doesn't make sense.

This is most definitely dependant on witnessing how O lineman reacts after the penalty.

Again, no more black and white then my examples above.

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Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:39 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Meh... this isn't winning games for GB. Charles Woodson definitely got some breaks in the past, but he was a very good CB at the same time.
The fact is, Aaron Rodgers is the best QB that has ever played. His numbers will eventually make every other QB look silly. If he wins a couple more Super Bowls, there will literally be no argument for any other player in the history of the league.

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Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:37 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Meh... this isn't winning games for GB. Charles Woodson definitely got some breaks in the past, but he was a very good CB at the same time.
The fact is, Aaron Rodgers is the best QB that has ever played. His numbers will eventually make every other QB look silly. If he wins a couple more Super Bowls, there will literally be no argument for any other player in the history of the league.

No chance of more Super Bowls until the Packers can field a defense that can stop the other teams from scoring. :D

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Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
lets just face it Packers, Cowboys, and Patriots all get calls they shouldn't

The League didn't even want to deal with the Patriots cheating in the Superbowl's
but other owners put pressure on Godell to deal with it and Kraft through a fit because
Uncle Rodger lets him do whatever he wants....

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Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:06 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Raptorman wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Meh... this isn't winning games for GB. Charles Woodson definitely got some breaks in the past, but he was a very good CB at the same time.
The fact is, Aaron Rodgers is the best QB that has ever played. His numbers will eventually make every other QB look silly. If he wins a couple more Super Bowls, there will literally be no argument for any other player in the history of the league.

No chance of more Super Bowls until the Packers can field a defense that can stop the other teams from scoring. :D


You mean like in 2009, 2010, 2012, and 2014? All Defenses that could make a stop, yet only one of those got a ring.

You shouldnt make comments without doing research Raptorman, you are hardly the standard when it comes on judging the nessecary criteria for a SB win.

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Last edited by Jordysghost on Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:55 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
jackal wrote:
lets just face it Packers, Cowboys, and Patriots all get calls they shouldn't



Yea, like the Fail Mary! Those damn fudgies get all the calls. :wink:

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Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:57 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
I was at the game Monday night and both of the 12 man on the field calls where Green Bay got free plays I probably would've blown dead. One of them was especially bad where pretty much no one was set but Rodgers and his center just went.


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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
DK Sweets wrote:
That is really frustrating, but I wonder if it's a Green Bay issue or if the officials are doing a poor job of making the call league wide.

Regardless, hopefully it is fixed soon.


It's not a Green Bay issue, just an officiating issue. I saw Alex Smith get a free play in the same game (he threw an INT that didn't count). I see the same thing happen at times in other games, involving other teams. nevertheless, Rieux is right that, by rule, it shouldn't be allowed.


Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:05 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Mothman wrote:
It's not a Green Bay issue, just an officiating issue. I saw Alex Smith get a free play in the same game (he threw an INT that didn't count).

I appreciate the shout-out, but given that comment it's not clear that you understand (it really appears Jordy, here, still doesn't either) the actual problem with what happened to the Seahawks and Chiefs at Lambeau. It wasn't merely that they jumped offsides and gave Rodgers a free play. Under some circumstances—such as the ones you saw in which Smith got a free play!—that's entirely appropriate and ordinary.

The problem is that the Packers have now, three times in two weeks, been gifted with free plays on which one or more offensive linemen false-started. That did not happen on Kansas City's free play. (It didn't happen on a handful of other free plays that the Packers were correctly allowed in those two games, either.)

This is a specific rule that's supposed to apply in specific circumstances; it certainly does not apply just any time a defensive player jumps offside.

Dungy and Carroll both noticed, and called out, this problem the first time it happened. Then it happened two more times, a week later. For the same team. In the same stadium. It's hard for me to see how that problem is particularly susceptible to a "things are tough all over" defense.

(Arguably, from a Packers' perspective, the problem here (if there is one) is that Bakhtiari is a jumpy doof who insists on bouncing up, gesticulating at the guilty defender, and (I presume) hollering "He's offside! He's offside!" every time Rodgers fools a defender with the hard count. Mike McCarthy or James Campen might want to suggest that he stop doing that. On the other hand, if the referees are never going to apply this rule to the Packers, why bother?)


Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:27 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Rieux wrote:
Mothman wrote:
It's not a Green Bay issue, just an officiating issue. I saw Alex Smith get a free play in the same game (he threw an INT that didn't count).

I appreciate the shout-out, but given that comment it's not clear that you understand (it really appears Jordy, here, still doesn't either) the actual problem with what happened to the Seahawks and Chiefs at Lambeau. It wasn't merely that they jumped offsides and gave Rodgers a free play. Under some circumstances—such as the ones you saw in which Smith got a free play!—that's entirely appropriate and ordinary.

The problem is that the Packers have now, three times in two weeks, been gifted with free plays on which one or more offensive linemen false-started. That did not happen on Kansas City's free play. (It didn't happen on a handful of other free plays that the Packers were correctly allowed in those two games, either.)

This is a specific rule that's supposed to apply in specific circumstances; it certainly does not apply just any time a defensive player jumps offside.

Dungy and Carroll both noticed, and called out, this problem the first time it happened. Then it happened two more times, a week later. For the same team. In the same stadium. It's hard for me to see how that problem is particularly susceptible to a "things are tough all over" defense.

(Arguably, from a Packers' perspective, the problem here (if there is one) is that Bakhtiari is a jumpy doof who insists on bouncing up, gesticulating at the guilty defender, and (I presume) hollering "He's offside! He's offside!" every time Rodgers fools a defender with the hard count. Mike McCarthy or James Campen might want to suggest that he stop doing that. On the other hand, if the referees are never going to apply this rule to the Packers, why bother?)


Why indeed?

I did misunderstand you. Sorry about that! Thank you for the clarification.

That's what I get for reading and posting 5 minutes after waking up. I really should give my brain a little more time to get used to processing information in the morning.

I don't know if this is a Packer-specific problem or not but they are clearly benefitting from it and that needs to stop. The rule should be applied (regardless of which teams are involved).


Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:03 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Rieux wrote:
Mothman wrote:
It's not a Green Bay issue, just an officiating issue. I saw Alex Smith get a free play in the same game (he threw an INT that didn't count).

I appreciate the shout-out, but given that comment it's not clear that you understand (it really appears Jordy, here, still doesn't either) the actual problem with what happened to the Seahawks and Chiefs at Lambeau. It wasn't merely that they jumped offsides and gave Rodgers a free play. Under some circumstances—such as the ones you saw in which Smith got a free play!—that's entirely appropriate and ordinary.

The problem is that the Packers have now, three times in two weeks, been gifted with free plays on which one or more offensive linemen false-started. That did not happen on Kansas City's free play. (It didn't happen on a handful of other free plays that the Packers were correctly allowed in those two games, either.)

This is a specific rule that's supposed to apply in specific circumstances; it certainly does not apply just any time a defensive player jumps offside.

Dungy and Carroll both noticed, and called out, this problem the first time it happened. Then it happened two more times, a week later. For the same team. In the same stadium. It's hard for me to see how that problem is particularly susceptible to a "things are tough all over" defense.

(Arguably, from a Packers' perspective, the problem here (if there is one) is that Bakhtiari is a jumpy doof who insists on bouncing up, gesticulating at the guilty defender, and (I presume) hollering "He's offside! He's offside!" every time Rodgers fools a defender with the hard count. Mike McCarthy or James Campen might want to suggest that he stop doing that. On the other hand, if the referees are never going to apply this rule to the Packers, why bother?)



You seem a bit confused, and that is probably why you failed to refute anything from my last 5 posts.

I understand quite clearly the rule, and I agree that the refs should either call it like it says in the rulebook, or change the rule, in that we are in agreement.

The problem is that you are trying to spin this into some silly pro Packer conspiracy, look around you dude, most people dont realize that that is a rule, and that is because around the league it is almost NEVER called that way, that is the reason many people are having a hard time grasping this concept, and the reason my first reply was a little bit off base, is because this has been going on throughout the league for years and hasn't been called the way the rulebook says.

My point is, you have an agenda, and your little comment about the Packers 'Blatant holding everytime Rodgers scrambles' certainly backs this up. While this definitely needs to be discussed and addressed accordingly, it is hardly a single team specific issue.

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Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:49 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Jordysghost wrote:
The problem is that you are trying to spin this into some silly pro Packer conspiracy,

Two weeks; two games; three missed-call plays; 130 yards (78 passing, 52 penalty) and 1 TD. All in favor of one team.

I don't know about "conspiracy," but that is an overwhelming benefit from an inexplicable refusal to apply a simple and (actually) rather well-known rule to a particular team.

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look around you dude, most people dont realize that that is a rule

What in the world is that supposed to mean? Are you claiming that the three calls were missed because the officials don't know the rule? That's absurd—but if not that, then what relevance does your comment have to anything? The rule not being applied to the Packers is no less a problem just because (you claim) you were ignorant of the rule.

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and that is because around the league it is almost NEVER called that way, that is the reason many people are having a hard time grasping this concept, and the reason my first reply was a little bit off base, is because this has been going on throughout the league for years and hasn't been called the way the rulebook says.

That's flatly ludicrous. Before the Green Bay-Seattle game I had never seen this rule misapplied. How do you think I knew it existed?

Of the group Pete Carroll, Tony Dungy, and yours truly, there are exactly zero genius experts. This is not an obscure issue. False Starts Stop Plays; what person who has watched any meaningful number of NFL games doesn't know that?

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My point is, you have an agenda...

So do you. So what?

Quote:
While this definitely needs to be discussed and addressed accordingly....

Well, that's a fine about-face from your earlier position. So much for "things are tough all over."

Quote:
...it is hardly a single team specific issue.

Really? Can you actually find a single example of an offense other than the Packers' getting the improper advantage that I've shown they got three times in two weeks?

You claim "this has been going on throughout the league for years and hasn't been called the way the rulebook says." Show me that it's happened once.


Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:40 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Hey, look what I found!

Jordysghost wrote:
the reason my first reply was a little bit off base, is because this has been going on throughout the league for years and hasn't been called the way the rulebook says.

So I rewound my DVR copy of the Vikings-San Diego game from this past Sunday. With 9:55 to go in the first quarter, on what would have been the third play of the Vikings' second drive, a hard count by Teddy Bridgewater induced Chargers LDE Corey Liuget to jump into the neutral zone. Vikings RG Mike Harris and RT T.J. Clemmings then false-started, pointing at Liuget in Bakhtiari-like fashion.

Want to guess what happened next? I'm sure the suspense is killing you.

That's right: the officials blew their whistles, stopping the play. Just like the rulebook requires them to. The Vikings were denied the opportunity to run a free play on which Bridgewater could have thrown a high-risk/high-reward pass without worrying about an interception, or even an incompletion. The Vikes were awarded a five-yard penalty on Liuget, though. And every bit of the officials' conduct was correct.

So whereas you complain that the misapplication of the rule in question "has been going on throughout the league for years and hasn't been called the way the rulebook says," it took me all of three minutes to find an example of exactly the opposite.

And, though it may be impolitic of me to point out, the home team that was denied a free play in this case (by the rule being applied properly) was... not the Packers.


Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:55 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Rieux wrote:
Hey, look what I found!

Jordysghost wrote:
the reason my first reply was a little bit off base, is because this has been going on throughout the league for years and hasn't been called the way the rulebook says.

So I rewound my DVR copy of the Vikings-San Diego game from this past Sunday. With 9:55 to go in the first quarter, on what would have been the third play of the Vikings' second drive, a hard count by Teddy Bridgewater induced Chargers LDE Corey Liuget to jump into the neutral zone. Vikings RG Mike Harris and RT T.J. Clemmings then false-started, pointing at Liuget in Bakhtiari-like fashion.

Want to guess what happened next? I'm sure the suspense is killing you.

That's right: the officials blew their whistles, stopping the play. Just like the rulebook requires them to. The Vikings were denied the opportunity to run a free play on which Bridgewater could have thrown a high-risk/high-reward pass without worrying about an interception, or even an incompletion. The Vikes were awarded a five-yard penalty on Liuget, though. And every bit of the officials' conduct was correct.

So whereas you complain that the misapplication of the rule in question "has been going on throughout the league for years and hasn't been called the way the rulebook says," it took me all of three minutes to find an example of exactly the opposite.

And, though it may be impolitic of me to point out, the home team that was denied a free play in this case (by the rule being applied properly) was... not the Packers.


It might be instructive to see if the officiating crews that made the calls that favored the Packers have called that penalty the same way in other games. I don't know if anybody has the time/ability to do that but it could be interesting.


Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:21 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Found another one...

This past Sunday, Oakland at Cleveland, 4th Quarter, 8:00 to go, Browns have 2nd and 2 from the Raiders' 36 yard line. Josh McCown, in the shotgun, employs a hard count and induces Oakland ROLB Aldon Smith to jump offsides. Cleveland LT Joe Thomas bounces up, pointing at Smith. (What is with these O-Linemen and all this silly pointing?) The Browns attempt to snap the ball and run a play, but—wonder of wonders!—the officials blow it dead. Smith is called for the neutral zone infraction, 5 yards, which results in a Cleveland first down—but not the passing touchdown or deep pass-interference penalty that a "free play" could have yielded.

Admittedly this one took a bit more than three minutes and required me to use GamePass—but I'm still only two non-Packer games into 2015 Week 3. Does anyone really still think it's credible that "around the league it is almost NEVER called that way"? That "this has been going on throughout the league for years and hasn't been called the way the rulebook says"? "Going on," that is, outside of Wisconsin?


Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Mothman wrote:
It might be instructive to see if the officiating crews that made the calls that favored the Packers have called that penalty the same way in other games. I don't know if anybody has the time/ability to do that but it could be interesting.

That is indeed an interesting question. Maybe this evening I'll give your idea a shot.

I have a hard time believing, though, that the missed calls in Lambeau were the result of the officials seriously not knowing this rule.


Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:35 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Rieux wrote:
Mothman wrote:
It might be instructive to see if the officiating crews that made the calls that favored the Packers have called that penalty the same way in other games. I don't know if anybody has the time/ability to do that but it could be interesting.

That is indeed an interesting question. Maybe this evening I'll give your idea a shot.

I have a hard time believing, though, that the missed calls in Lambeau were the result of the officials seriously not knowing this rule.


Oh, I'm not wondering if they know it, just how often they don't apply it and if this is a something that has benefitted teams other than Green Bay.


Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:52 pm
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Rieux wrote:
Mothman wrote:
It might be instructive to see if the officiating crews that made the calls that favored the Packers have called that penalty the same way in other games. I don't know if anybody has the time/ability to do that but it could be interesting.

That is indeed an interesting question. Maybe this evening I'll give your idea a shot.

I have a hard time believing, though, that the missed calls in Lambeau were the result of the officials seriously not knowing this rule.


I wasn't asserting that the call was 'never' called correctly, only that it is inconsistent throughout the NFL, and that is true, it is. Cherry picking calls from a 2 week sample size means nothing.

Your obscenely small sample size only proves what your childish comments about how the Packers get away with 'blatant holding every time Rodgers scrambles' already suggests, that you are just a fan with an agenda trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill to discredit a rivals accomplishments.

If you truly are hell bent on spinning this into some pro Packer conspiracy, which it appears you are then you need to both examine the calls and non calls over a larger sample size, prefferably something over two weeks, and also examine a larger number of franchises, I'd be interested to see how many other teams are benefitting from these 'gifts from the officials' along with the Packers.

Until then, your just another fan cherry picking calls, on one of the many inconsistently called rules in the league and trying to spin in it to some conspiracy theory about a rival team.

BTW, if you want to get into 'gifts from the officials' then I might as well just bring up the NFL's leniency on the Minnesota Vikings after Brad Childress admitted to the league doing something that by rule would consist of tampering, no ifs, ands, or buts. But I suspect you have no interest in 'gifts from the officials' unless it involves them being in the favor Green Bay. :wink:

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Last edited by Jordysghost on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:31 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Ahem...

Please respond to the post, do not attack the poster.


Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:35 am
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Post Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic
Mothman wrote:
Ahem...

Please respond to the post, do not attack the poster.


While I will definitely be more polite from now on, and Ill even edit my post, I dont think anything I said could really be considered 'attacking the poster' I apologize if you disagree and I will conduct myself in a more measured fashion.

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Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:38 am
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