Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Officials

General discussions of other teams from around the league and general NFL events.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Rieux
Franchise Player
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:48 pm
Location: St. Paul

Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Officials

Post by Rieux » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:12 am

It's been a frustrating few weeks watching teams visit Lambeau and lose based in no small part on plays in which Aaron Rodgers baits pass rushers into jumping offsides. Obviously Rodgers' talent for doing this is part of why he's been such a successful quarterback—but over the past few weeks, it's become clear that officiating crews are all too eager to help him run "free plays" that, under the rules, he and the Packers do not actually deserve to run.

It started in last week's Sunday Night game against Seattle; as Seahawks coach Pete Carroll noted days later, a mid-game "free play" on which Richard Sherman was called for a 52-yard pass-interference penalty should never have been allowed to continue past the snap:
That play came near the end of the first half. Carroll's argument wasn't about whether or not the Seahawks had jumped offsides, which defensive end Michael Bennett clearly did. It's what happened afterward – or more precisely, what didn't happen – that he believes constituted an officiating error.

"We jump offsides, their offensive line, the right guard and tackle stand up, the play's dead," Carroll said. "That thing never happened. It never should have happened."

The right side of Green Bay's offensive line popped up after Seattle jumped offsides but before the ball was snapped. As Carroll noted, that should have resulted in the play being whistled dead. Instead, Rodgers threw deep into double coverage -- knowing he had a free play -- and cornerback Richard Sherman was flagged for pass interference.

The Packers were on their own 13-yard line at the time, leading 10-3 with 52 seconds left in the second quarter. They didn't have any timeouts remaining, either, which means their only realistic shot at scoring was with a big play. They got one by virtue of a pass-interference penalty that also stopped the clock. The Packers kicked a field goal five plays later to take a 13-3 halftime lead.

- "Pete Carroll laments 'total mistake on the officials' part' vs. Green Bay"
Carroll is simply correct: under the NFL's Rule 7, Article 4(b), it is a neutral zone infraction when
a defender enters the neutral zone prior to the snap, causing the offensive player(s) in close proximity (including a quarterback who is under center) to react (move) immediately to protect himself (themselves) against impending contact; officials are to blow their whistles immediately.
Illustrative example A.R. 7.22 addresses the situation as well:
Second-and-10 on B30. Defensive tackle B1’s initial charge into neutral zone makes offensive guard A1 directly across from him flinch and draw back.
Ruling: Blow the whistle immediately. Penalize B1 for a neutral zone infraction. A’s ball second-and-5 on B25.
Unfortunately, this is not what happened last Sunday night; even though two Green Bay offensive linemen false-started as the result of (or with the intent of calling attention to) Bennett's offsides, the officials simply ignored it, allowing Rodgers to put up a bomb that resulted in Sherman's pass-interference penalty.

On the NBC studio halftime show, Tony Dungy actually obliquely pointed out this officiating mistake. No one else on the network followed up on the problem, and the commentators at Lambeau never mentioned it.

Well, to add double insult to the Seahawks' injury, the same thing happened again TWICE last night, in the Packers' win over Kansas City. Rodgers was gifted two free plays—a 26-yard touchdown pass in the second quarter and a 52-yard bomb early in the fourth—when Chiefs defenders jumped offside and one or more Packers offensive linemen (LT Tony Bakhtiari both times, LG Josh Sitton on the first play) moved before the snap. Rather than stop play, as the rule above requires, and award the Packers a five-yard neutral-zone-infraction penalty, in both cases the officials wrongly allowed play to continue, to the home team's overwhelming benefit.

It is most infuriating that the Green Bay Packers are allowed to play by different rules than the rest of the league is.
0 x

User avatar
DK Sweets
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2910
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:46 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by DK Sweets » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:51 am

That is really frustrating, but I wonder if it's a Green Bay issue or if the officials are doing a poor job of making the call league wide.

Regardless, hopefully it is fixed soon.
0 x

Jordysghost
Packers Suck
Posts: 2992
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pm

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by Jordysghost » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:13 pm

With the exception of maybe the specific play that Carrol was crying about, literally all you posted, was a long winded version of "They were only offsides cause the Offense had a false start!" which, needless to say, is rather subjective territory.

I could make the same claim every Packers False start or Offsides, and it would be just as baseless and immature as when you do it.

Did you see the gifted 4th down conversion gifted to the Chiefs? Or perhaps the constant blatant holding commited by Sherman the week before? Oh gee! Those damn refs let the Chiefs and Seahawks do whatever they want! :roll: :lol:

Its all moot anyways, I see the same thing occur on offsides penalties across the league, its just, most arent as good at taking advantage as A-Rod. I dont see offsides that get blown down very often if the defender isnt unabated to the QB.
0 x
"Follow my lead today, whos goona be the big dog with me?" - Aaron Rodgers, February 6th, 2011

User avatar
Rieux
Franchise Player
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:48 pm
Location: St. Paul

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by Rieux » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:35 pm

Jordysghost wrote:With the exception of maybe the specific play that Carrol was crying about, literally all you posted, was a long winded version of "They were only offsides cause the Offense had a false start!" which, needless to say, is rather subjective territory.
I'd call my post "complete" rather than "long winded," but that is, indeed, subjective.

But oddly, despite the exhaustive attempt I made to describe the problem, it appears you still don't understand it. There is no contention—not from Carroll, not from Dungy, not from me, and not (AFAIK) from Andy Reid or the Chiefs—that "They were only offsides [be]cause the Offense had a false start!" That's clearly not true; the Seattle and Kansas City defenders were obviously offsides because they were fooled by the hard count from Rodgers. Quite obviously it's the false starts that were caused by the defenders' neutral-zone infractions: on both plays last night, Bakhtiari jumped up immediately, pointing at the offsides defender, with the clear intention of emphasizing to the officials that the defender had jumped offside.

Under NFL rules, that results in a stoppage of play (and a penalty on (hello?!) the defense). Under the special rules that are applied to the Green Bay Packers in Lambeau Field (as now demonstrated three times in two weeks), the play proceeds so that Aaron Rodgers can throw a bomb.
I could make the same claim every Packers False start or Offsides....
No, actually, you couldn't. You don't even understand what's going on here—what Carroll, Dungy, and I are talking about.
Did you see the gifted 4th down conversion gifted to the Chiefs?
The play on which the officials spotted the ball at the place they believed the receiver had been tackled, and then the Packers didn't have a time out left to allow them to challenge the spot? Yeah, I saw that. There is no rule interpretation at issue there; if the officials missed the spot, that's what instant replay is intended for.

We're not talking about mere arguably missed judgment calls here; we're talking about rules that, for mysterious reasons, don't get applied when it benefits the Packers in Lambeau.
Or perhaps the constant blatant holding commited by Sherman the week before?
As compared to all of the blatant holding that the Packers offensive line commits every time Rodgers scrambles? I think any Green Bay opponent would be happy to trade flag-for-flag on those kinds of plays. But again, this thread is not about a difference of opinion on a judgment call. It's about the direct defiance of Rule 7, Article 4(b), on three separate occasions in two games—to the benefit of a 26-yard touchdown, a 52-yard pass completion and a 52-yard pass-interference penalty for the Packers on three plays that, as Carroll put it, "never should have happened."
I dont see offsides that get blown down very often if the defender isnt unabated to the QB.
Nor, under the rule, should you "see" that "very often." The rule provides that, barring encroachment or an unabated defender, the play is only supposed to be blown dead if an offensive player also false starts. Which, in most cases of defensive offsides, doesn't happen. So that's irrelevant.
0 x

User avatar
IrishViking
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by IrishViking » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:04 pm

Sorry Jordy... I usually just roll my eyes at "Officiating crews play favorites" But these are clear cut cases of rules not being applied.

This isn't not getting a flag or a subjective things this is literally the chain of action not be completed on a penalty. This is literally no different then the crew skipping a PAT and just giving it to someone or skipping a kick off and spotting someone at the 20


play needs to be blown dead when the lineman stands up and points it out. Period. Its the rule. Its not a judgment call.


I won't say this is some sort of pro Green Bay conspiracy but it seems to have become the norm to let these plays happen like this and Rodgers seems to become the king of it.

It is black and white a rule violation that needs to be corrected by the officiating crew.
0 x

Jordysghost
Packers Suck
Posts: 2992
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pm

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by Jordysghost » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:14 pm

Again, the calls in which you refer to are rightly or wrongly, rather consistant throughout the league, the fact is, whether or not this should be the case, is that the play is rarely blown dead unless the defender is unabated to the QB, you just hate the Packers so you tell yourself otherwise. I seriously am surprised that the rule is what it is, because it is almost never enforced, not just with the Packers, but the entire league. Sounds to me like your problem should be the inconsistancy between the rulebook and the enforcement of said rulebook.

Exactly what you are complaining about, occurs across the league pretty consistently, its just, your not going to see or accept it, because you would rather just believe that it is because the refs love the Packers, which the fail mary, (The most poorly, and incorrectly officiated final drive in NFL history) clearly proves to be 100% asininely incorrect. :)

Lol I was only using the Shermans holding as an example to show you how whiny you sound, and it only leads you to cry about the refs even more. (facepalm)
0 x
"Follow my lead today, whos goona be the big dog with me?" - Aaron Rodgers, February 6th, 2011

User avatar
IrishViking
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by IrishViking » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:17 pm

Jordysghost wrote:Again, the calls in which you refer to are rightly or wrongly, rather consistant throughout the league, the fact is, whether or not this should be the case, is that the play is rarely blown dead unless the defender is unabated to the QB, you just hate the Packers so you tell yourself otherwise. I seriously am surprised that the rule is what it is, because it is almost never enforced, not just with the Packers, but the entire league. Sounds to me like your problem should be the inconsistancy between the rulebook and the enforcement of said rulebook.

Exactly what you are complaining about, occurs across the league pretty consistently, its just, your not going to see or accept it, because you would rather just believe that it is because the refs love the Packers, which the fail mary, (The most poorly, and incorrectly officiated final drive in NFL history) clearly proves to be 100% asininely incorrect. :)

Lol I was only using the Shermans holding as an example to show you how whiny you sound, and it only leads you to cry about the refs even more. (facepalm)


I literally just said it happens across the league, just that rodgers has gotten good at abusing it...


Clearly WE are frothing at our purple mouth and incapable of rational thought

But since you are totally neutral in this your opinion should carry the weight :roll:


We get rule grey areas happen

but this is a black and white rule NOT being enforced.
0 x

Jordysghost
Packers Suck
Posts: 2992
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pm

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by Jordysghost » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:24 pm

IrishViking wrote:
It is black and white a rule violation that needs to be corrected by the officiating crew.
Maybe so, but to claim that it is an attempt by the refs to assist the Packers is completely asinine, again, look around the league and tell me how often you see this rule actually entorced, it woukd be one thing to point out a flaw in the officiating, but to claim that it only goes in favor of the Packers is silly.

As to it being a black and white rule violation, it really isnt any more black and white then a DB making contact over 10 yards past the LOS and not being called, that is also a clear violation of the rules that theoretically couldn't be considered a 'judgement' call, being that contact is contact.

There is alot of inconsistency amongst how NFL refs call games, but claiming its because they 'love' one team is downright childish, every team in the league thinks the top dog in their division is some sort of favirote, i wonder why..
Last edited by Jordysghost on Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
"Follow my lead today, whos goona be the big dog with me?" - Aaron Rodgers, February 6th, 2011

Jordysghost
Packers Suck
Posts: 2992
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pm

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by Jordysghost » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:30 pm

IrishViking wrote:

I literally just said it happens across the league, just that rodgers has gotten good at abusing it...


Clearly WE are frothing at our purple mouth and incapable of rational thought

But since you are totally neutral in this your opinion should carry the weight :roll:


We get rule grey areas happen

but this is a black and white rule NOT being enforced.
Again, how is this any more black and white then some of the other questionable calls around the league? Grabbing a facemask is a penalty, no grey area in sight, making contact with a WR past 5 yards past the LOS is a penalty, no grey area in sight, and yet, those are both also inconsistently called.

What makes this anymore black and white then those do?

BTW, I never said anyone was frothing at the mouth, but claiming that a rule that is inconsistently called throughout the league is being broken for the clear purpose of helping the Packers is childish and silly.
0 x
"Follow my lead today, whos goona be the big dog with me?" - Aaron Rodgers, February 6th, 2011

User avatar
IrishViking
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by IrishViking » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:34 pm

because those are dependent on witnessing the action occurring


This is someone simply not calling the next action in the chain of rules.
0 x

Jordysghost
Packers Suck
Posts: 2992
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pm

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by Jordysghost » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:39 pm

IrishViking wrote:because those are dependent on witnessing the action occurring


This is someone simply not calling the next action in the chain of rules.
That doesn't make sense.

This is most definitely dependant on witnessing how O lineman reacts after the penalty.

Again, no more black and white then my examples above.
0 x
"Follow my lead today, whos goona be the big dog with me?" - Aaron Rodgers, February 6th, 2011

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 18394
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN
Contact:

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:37 pm

Meh... this isn't winning games for GB. Charles Woodson definitely got some breaks in the past, but he was a very good CB at the same time.
The fact is, Aaron Rodgers is the best QB that has ever played. His numbers will eventually make every other QB look silly. If he wins a couple more Super Bowls, there will literally be no argument for any other player in the history of the league.
0 x
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2017 #BringitHome‬

User avatar
Raptorman
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3206
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:23 pm
Location: Sebastian, FL

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by Raptorman » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:41 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:Meh... this isn't winning games for GB. Charles Woodson definitely got some breaks in the past, but he was a very good CB at the same time.
The fact is, Aaron Rodgers is the best QB that has ever played. His numbers will eventually make every other QB look silly. If he wins a couple more Super Bowls, there will literally be no argument for any other player in the history of the league.
No chance of more Super Bowls until the Packers can field a defense that can stop the other teams from scoring. :D
0 x
Vikings fan since Nov. 6, 1966. Annoying Packer fans since Nov. 7, 1966

User avatar
jackal
Strong Safety
Posts: 11568
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:05 am
Location: California

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by jackal » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:06 am

lets just face it Packers, Cowboys, and Patriots all get calls they shouldn't

The League didn't even want to deal with the Patriots cheating in the Superbowl's
but other owners put pressure on Godell to deal with it and Kraft through a fit because
Uncle Rodger lets him do whatever he wants....
0 x
no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Jordysghost
Packers Suck
Posts: 2992
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pm

Re: Too Many Green Bay "Free Plays" Are Gifts from the Offic

Post by Jordysghost » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:55 am

Raptorman wrote: No chance of more Super Bowls until the Packers can field a defense that can stop the other teams from scoring. :D
You mean like in 2009, 2010, 2012, and 2014? All Defenses that could make a stop, yet only one of those got a ring.

You shouldnt make comments without doing research Raptorman, you are hardly the standard when it comes on judging the nessecary criteria for a SB win.
Last edited by Jordysghost on Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
"Follow my lead today, whos goona be the big dog with me?" - Aaron Rodgers, February 6th, 2011

Post Reply