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 Fans should have some sort of control 
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Post Fans should have some sort of control
Before people go off the deep end hear me out. I know fans can be extremely judgmental and emotional about their teams. Knee jerk reactions all around. Fire this guy, hire that guy, trade our whole draft for a WR. That is not the kind of control I'm referring to, and to be honest I have no idea if it's even possible.

I was watching the newest video on Vikings.com about Bridgewater where MJD, Ike Taylor and Dave Dameshek were discussing who would have a better second year, Teddy or Derek Carr. They all said teddy, obviously :rofl:

Anyways, the discussion turned to bortles and manziel and dameshek hit the nail right on the head. What he said stood out immensely. I'm just paraphrasing but he stated that "teams do what they do because coaches lose their jobs so fast and they control way too much of a teams rise/downfall". In a nutshell. He was primarily focusing on rick pettine starting mccown over manziel. "he gives us the best chance to win". Pettine is referring to a guy who started 11 games last year and was the main reason for tampa being the #1 pick in the draft. A guy who is on his 9th nfl team in like 12 years. You draft this rookie, determine he's not ready, then throw him to the wolves for 2 games with what seemed like no hope for him succeeding. I don't get it.

Manziel is a dipshit, we can all agree on that. Personally I like his style, he reminds me a lot of flutie who I absolutely loved as a player growing up. His off the field antics need to be put under control but the fact remains. You have a franchise that hasn't tasted winning in decades. You moved up in the draft to take this kid, only to abandon him in the same year. Here's how I see it, Mike Pettine is doing the city of Cleveland no favors by starting mccown. You know what mccown can do, you have no idea what manziel can pull off during a whole season. You already have a solid defense. Your offense needs help. You are pretty much trying to save your job by starting a guy who contributed mightily to another team picking #1 overall, because you have a personal vendetta with a player who your GM moved up in the draft to get. A guy who carried a college team on his small shoulders and made them relevant.

If I was a fan of the browns I would be livid. Not just a fan, but lets say a fan who has season tickets. Football is a business, like any other business if your service sucks, you as a consumer will go seek service elsewhere right? Problem is they're stuck with the browns and this idiot coach, much like we were with green, tice and childress. You can say what you want about green but he was a dipshit too, blessed with godlike talent at wr that made him look better than he really was. If I'm paying good money to go see browns games, and this clown is starting ryan leaf part 2 over manziel, I'm flat out going to stop going. But what about those tickets you bought? see where I'm going with this?

They should have some kind of a say in what goes on, at least hear them out. Have like fan reps that can give suggestions legitimately. I have no clue how something like this can be done but it makes me feel bad for those loyal fans who have to put up with that crap for decades on end. We know that pain all too well. From rumors mariotta "isn't up to standard" yet either. If they don't start him that goes right back into what I was saying.


Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:57 am
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
What makes you think Pettine has a 'personal vendetta' against Manziel? Huge leap to conclusions, furthermore, you think Denny Green was an idiotic coach? I very much disagree.

McCown was 12-1 TD INT ratio in 2013, at this point Manziel looks far more like Ryan Leaf part two then McCown does. The Bears chose Cutler over McCown during the latter part of the 2013 season, and it burnt them.

Lastly, why do you act as if Bridge is so for sure set to have a better year then Carr? Carr had 3000+ yards in 2014, and 7 more TDs then Teddy had last year with the same amount of interceptions (Ted had a Passer rating about 9 points higher though). I thought Bridgewater was the best QB from his draft class coming out and still do, but you cant act like its not even close because it is.

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Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:32 am
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
Cause I'm a Vikings fan, that's why? And any coach that at the time had the highest scoring offense ever, and randy moss, and decided to take a knee with 30 seconds left in the nfccg is a mouthbreathing moron.


Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:58 am
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
I think pettine does have a vendetta. Nobody would risk their coaching career on josh mccown, sorry.


Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:58 am
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
I think your argument is fundamentally flawed. At the beginning of the post you highlight how coaches have such a short leash because the fans overreact, and so your solution is to give the fans a bigger voice? If anything, that would only escalate the chaos.


Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:11 am
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
DK Sweets wrote:
I think your argument is fundamentally flawed. At the beginning of the post you highlight how coaches have such a short leash because the fans overreact, and so your solution is to give the fans a bigger voice? If anything, that would only escalate the chaos.

That's not what I meant if you took it that way, they have a short job on average because teams want to win. Fans have nothing to do with it right now. But season ticket holders should be outraged at stuff like this. That was my whole point. People who pay good money to see these teams play and I picked this situation in particular because you KNOW josh mccown doesn't give them the best chance to win like he said. regardless how you feel about manziel personally, you really think that mccown is going to take the browns anywhere? The team moved up to get johnny, don't you think that in year two he finally deserves a look at over a guy who has been on 9 different teams in 12 years?


Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:32 pm
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
Quote:
Anyways, the discussion turned to bortles and manziel and dameshek hit the nail right on the head. What he said stood out immensely. I'm just paraphrasing but he stated that "teams do what they do because coaches lose their jobs so fast and they control way too much of a teams rise/downfall". In a nutshell. He was primarily focusing on rick pettine starting mccown over manziel. "he gives us the best chance to win". Pettine is referring to a guy who started 11 games last year and was the main reason for tampa being the #1 pick in the draft. A guy who is on his 9th nfl team in like 12 years. You draft this rookie, determine he's not ready, then throw him to the wolves for 2 games with what seemed like no hope for him succeeding. I don't get it.


Sitting out Johnny Football is predicated on a few things, which I don't think apply to the Browns.

1. The player wants to learn, and has veteran leadership, and good coaching to develop him.

2. The locker room is strong, and the player above him is capable of doing the job.

3. The organization builds through the draft, and makes good calls on FA's

4. The organization does not fire everyone every two years and basically lose the last three or four
drafts, due to changing the playbook and types of players needed. Not to mention the few good players
spend their careers trying to un learn and change everything in their skill set and on field reactions.

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Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:54 pm
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
Boon wrote:
Cause I'm a Vikings fan, that's why? And any coach that at the time had the highest scoring offense ever, and randy moss, and decided to take a knee with 30 seconds left in the nfccg is a mouthbreathing moron.


:roll: He coached that offense, he didnt pull it out a damn hat.

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Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:01 pm
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
Boon wrote:
I think pettine does have a vendetta. Nobody would risk their coaching career on josh mccown, sorry.


So your just going to ignore McCowns 12-1 td to int ratio in Chicago, huh? Again, Manziel looks far more like Ryan Leaf then McCown, for both the fact that he sucks, and has a terrible attitude. McCown isnt great but hes shown he can play solid in the NFL, Manziel hasnt, and he has time to change that, but I seriously doubt he ever will.

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Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:08 pm
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
Boon wrote:
That's not what I meant if you took it that way, they have a short job on average because teams want to win. Fans have nothing to do with it right now. But season ticket holders should be outraged at stuff like this. That was my whole point. People who pay good money to see these teams play and I picked this situation in particular because you KNOW josh mccown doesn't give them the best chance to win like he said. regardless how you feel about manziel personally, you really think that mccown is going to take the browns anywhere? The team moved up to get johnny, don't you think that in year two he finally deserves a look at over a guy who has been on 9 different teams in 12 years?
I view the teams being so reactionary to poor results based on fans. If the fans are upset, the front office knows that bringing in a new coach will bring a sense of optimism and fans are more likely to buy tickets and merchandise if they feel like their team is headed in the right direction. I should have explained that view better in my first post.

And honestly, none of us KNOW anything about that QB situation. McCown very well might give the Browns a better chance of winning than Manziel, and it might not be because McCown is very good. It might be because Manziel isn't ready. Throwing Manziel in too soon and having horribly disappointing performances like last year could suck all the enthusiasm from the fan base and kill the morale of the locker room.


Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:21 pm
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
Jordysghost wrote:
Boon wrote:
Cause I'm a Vikings fan, that's why? And any coach that at the time had the highest scoring offense ever, and randy moss, and decided to take a knee with 30 seconds left in the nfccg is a mouthbreathing moron.


:roll: He coached that offense, he didnt pull it out a damn hat.


Billick coached that offense, not green lol


Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:02 pm
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
Boon wrote:
Jordysghost wrote:
Boon wrote:
Cause I'm a Vikings fan, that's why? And any coach that at the time had the highest scoring offense ever, and randy moss, and decided to take a knee with 30 seconds left in the nfccg is a mouthbreathing moron.


:roll: He coached that offense, he didnt pull it out a damn hat.


Billick coached that offense, not green lol


Green was the headcoach of the team when that offense went off, and here you are claiming that he didnt coach that offense. (facepalm)

So let me get this straight, you blame Green for being too conservative in the 98 NFCCG, and then claim that he never actually coached the Offense and it was all Billick? Right.. Makes a whole bunch of sense cheif.

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Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:57 pm
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Post Re: Fans should have some sort of control
I always thought Denny Green would have been a good General Manager or Head Scout

He brought in some great wide outs over the years

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Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:53 pm
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