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Top 20 players in cap space. 2015 2016
Seahawks. 109,054,951 117,568,424
Packers. 108,285,764 111,427,820
Vikings 103,924,268 109,227,308and two of three of those twenty already want new deals and are holding out or thinking about it. I don't think the Seahawks areThe biggest difference is that the Seahawks have 11 of their top 15 players signed through 2017 while the Packers have only 7 signed.
Difference being that Aaron Rodgers is more then worth his contract, and Wilson is not.Raptorman wrote:Folks, you really need to get over the idea that the Seahawks are going to be in some kind of cap hell. Will some players not get paid? Yes. Just like on every team. Some players are left to walk to greener pastures. But think of it like this. The Seahawks are in no worse shape than the Packers.The biggest difference is that the Seahawks have 11 of their top 15 players signed through 2017 while the Packers have only 7 signed.Code: Select all
Top 20 players in cap space. 2015 2016 Seahawks. 109,054,951 117,568,424 Packers. 108,285,764 111,427,820 Vikings 103,924,268 109,227,308
He hasn't played well? Really? In what manner? Oh I know, he hasn't thrown 37 times a game for 4,500 yards. Wilson's regular season numbers over the last three years compared to career stats of other "top" QB's.Jordysghost wrote:
Difference being that Aaron Rodgers is more then worth his contract, and Wilson is not.
Its not that they will be in cap hell, its just that they are going to lose that fantastic roster that they have built, with several guys wanting new contracts. The only way they will remain at their recent stellar level of play is if Wilson starts playing like the second highest paid QB in the league would play, and, to this point he hasnt.
Dont get me wrong though, I think this upcoming year they at the very least get back to the NFCCG, or god forbid, the SB. But I really dont see how they maintain being a top 3 team in the league on a consistant basis after that. Wilson is simply being payed FAR too much money. Good for him though.
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Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Rate
Rodgers 2286 3475 65.8 28578 226 6.5 57 1.6 106.0
Wilson 794 1252 63.4 9950 72 5.8 26 2.1 98.6
Romo 2743 4210 65.2 33270 242 5.7 110 2.6 97.6
Manning 5927 9049 65.5 69691 530 5.9 234 2.6 97.5
Brady 4551 7168 63.5 53258 392 5.5 143 2.0 95.9
Brees 4937 7458 66.2 56033 396 5.3 194 2.6 95.4
Luck 1062 1813 58.6 12957 86 4.7 43 2.4 86.6
It seems to me that sometimes teams are too risk averse. The seahawks could probably have signed Wilson for 8 -10 mil a year after year two for a contract that kept him on the team until he was 31. Share the risk with the player and keep the cap number lower. Wilson's been playing carrying ALL the risk on that podunk rookie deal.Jordysghost wrote: Difference being that Aaron Rodgers is more then worth his contract, and Wilson is not.
Its not that they will be in cap hell, its just that they are going to lose that fantastic roster that they have built, with several guys wanting new contracts. The only way they will remain at their recent stellar level of play is if Wilson starts playing like the second highest paid QB in the league would play, and, to this point he hasnt.
Dont get me wrong though, I think this upcoming year they at the very least get back to the NFCCG, or god forbid, the SB. But I really dont see how they maintain being a top 3 team in the league on a consistant basis after that. Wilson is simply being payed FAR too much money. Good for him though.
That's an interesting thought and it's a wonder that hasn't been done more. I can only think of New England and I believe their extensions with either Gronk, Hernandez or both that were thought of as perhaps a year or so premature (forget the Hernandez fiasco as that wasn't happening at the time). Though it does "take two to tango" and if Teddy puts up, say, top-15 QB numbers and wins a playoff game or two (here's hoping!) he could just as soon "bet on himself" and not sign a contract extension until later, understanding that he may be costing himself a few million now for the potential for a much bigger payday down the line. Though there is the "fifth-year option" that really is a win from a team ownership standpoint. There's also the possibility that, after doing this, Teddy greatly exceeds expectations and ends up being, say, the #18 highest-paid QB with top-five stats and has two years left on his second deal and becomes quite unhappy with that and "holds out" (not that he seems like that type of guy).fiestavike wrote:It seems to me that sometimes teams are too risk averse. The seahawks could probably have signed Wilson for 8 -10 mil a year after year two for a contract that kept him on the team until he was 31. Share the risk with the player and keep the cap number lower. Wilson's been playing carrying ALL the risk on that podunk rookie deal.
The Vikings could well be in the same spot after this year. If Bridgewater does well this year I think they should give him some of the money they would give him AFTER his rookie deal, 2-3 years early and keep the annual salary down, so they can remain competitive for a good 7-8 year window. Put the guaranteed money during the first couple years of the contract. Even if he flames out you are not likely to cut bait with him after 2 more years as a promising first round pick.
Thanks DP. there are certainly a lot of hypothetical aspects to the idea, but it seems like a reasonable compromise to say to a guy, over the next 7 years you take a little less but over the next two-three years you get a lot more, most of it guaranteed. It strikes me as a potential win/win.dead_poet wrote: That's an interesting thought and it's a wonder that hasn't been done more. I can only think of New England and I believe their extensions with either Gronk, Hernandez or both that were thought of as perhaps a year or so premature (forget the Hernandez fiasco as that wasn't happening at the time). Though it does "take two to tango" and if Teddy puts up, say, top-15 QB numbers and wins a playoff game or two (here's hoping!) he could just as soon "bet on himself" and not sign a contract extension until later, understanding that he may be costing himself a few million now for the potential for a much bigger payday down the line. Though there is the "fifth-year option" that really is a win from a team ownership standpoint. There's also the possibility that, after doing this, Teddy greatly exceeds expectations and ends up being, say, the #18 highest-paid QB with top-five stats and has two years left on his second deal and becomes quite unhappy with that and "holds out" (not that he seems like that type of guy).
I know this is a lot of hypotheticals. That said, I think what you're suggesting has potential to be a win-win move as teams continue to get more comfortable with the rookie wage scale and second contracts, particularly with quarterbacks, and players wanting a raise and additional security early in their careers.
Raptorman wrote: He hasn't played well? Really? In what manner? Oh I know, he hasn't thrown 37 times a game for 4,500 yards. Wilson's regular season numbers over the last three years compared to career stats of other "top" QB's.
Of course we all know stats don't make the QB right. But, Wilson can't stay in the pocket and throw. No, I know, it's the defense. Which does help. Keeping teams to under 16 ppg helps any QB win.Code: Select all
Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Rate Rodgers 2286 3475 65.8 28578 226 6.5 57 1.6 106.0 Wilson 794 1252 63.4 9950 72 5.8 26 2.1 98.6 Romo 2743 4210 65.2 33270 242 5.7 110 2.6 97.6 Manning 5927 9049 65.5 69691 530 5.9 234 2.6 97.5 Brady 4551 7168 63.5 53258 392 5.5 143 2.0 95.9 Brees 4937 7458 66.2 56033 396 5.3 194 2.6 95.4 Luck 1062 1813 58.6 12957 86 4.7 43 2.4 86.6
Do this, name the elite QB's that won the Super Bowl the last 20 years without a top 10 defense in scoring.
Brady had defense's ranked 6, 1, 2 and 8.
Rodgers, Packers were ranked 2nd.
Wilson 1.
Big Ben, 1 and 3.
Elway, 6 and 8.
Favre, 1
Ravens were 1 and 12.
Eli, well Eli had 17 and 25, but no one consider's him elite. But during his SB runs the Giants defense held other teams to under 17ppg
Brees defense was 20. During his SB run defense held other team to under 20ppg
Payton Manning his was 23. During his SB run defense held other team to under 17ppg
So having a good QB is good, but it won't necessarily win you the big game. Do you know why the Patriots have double digit wins every year? It's not Brady alone. The Patriots defense has averaged out to be the 8th ranked defense in scoring since Brady became the QB. The Patriots Defense since 2001 has held their opponents to an average score of 18.7 point per game. With that score, the NFL average of any team winning is about 80%. Which is why people look down on Wilson. Because his team has been holding teams to and even lower score, 16.6 ppg. See people will claim Wilson isn't a top QB because his defense does so well, but when was the last time you heard anyone even mention the Patriots defense?
While the Packers only have one SB thus far in Rodgers tenure, saying they havent put a good team around him is sketchy at best. The defense was top 5 in 2009, 2010, 12th ranked in 2012, and 15th last year. Leaving 2011 and 2013 as the outlier.fiestavike wrote: It seems to me that sometimes teams are too risk averse. The seahawks could probably have signed Wilson for 8 -10 mil a year after year two for a contract that kept him on the team until he was 31. Share the risk with the player and keep the cap number lower. Wilson's been playing carrying ALL the risk on that podunk rookie deal.
The Vikings could well be in the same spot after this year. If Bridgewater does well this year I think they should give him some of the money they would give him AFTER his rookie deal, 2-3 years early and keep the annual salary down, so they can remain competitive for a good 7-8 year window. Put the guaranteed money during the first couple years of the contract. Even if he flames out you are not likely to cut bait with him after 2 more years as a promising first round pick.
Afterall, A'aron is a great QB but the Packers haven't been able to put much of a team around him with his salary and its only resulted in 1 superbowl. Here's hoping that will be the last Packer's superbowl for the next 150 years.
Hasn't been close to as good as he pay day. In what way? How is he not good? Be specific.Jordysghost wrote:
You are missing the point entirely. Wilson has been good, but not even close to as good as his payday.
People dont "Look down on Wilson", but if they did it would be because game managers shouldnt be getting paid just slightly below the top QB in the game. A top QB isnt all it takes for a SB win, your right. So how are the Seahawks going to fare now that they are paying a QB like a top 5 QB when he quite obviously isnt one? Defense was their biggest catalyst towards their SB victory, and Wilson cashed in.
Well, for one, to be a top 5 QB, there cannot be at least 5 other QBs in the league that are undisputably statistically superior to you, especially when you play on a loaded team like the Seahawks. This really shouldnt be such a foreign concept, if you get payed like a Rodgers, Manning, you should produce like one, not like a 20 td game manager. (Excellent game manager though he may be.) Wilson is being payed as an elite QB, when at least up until this point he hasnt been one, in fact, Wilson has never thrown for 30 tds in a season.Raptorman wrote: Hasn't been close to as good as he pay day. In what way? How is he not good? Be specific.
Game manager who completes 63% of his passes, has a 7.9 yards per attempt average, Which is equal to Romo's, less than Rodgers but greater than Brees, Brady, Luck and P. Manning. Has a TD% that is currently third among active QB's at 5.8%, an interception rate of 2.1% which is third behind Rodgers and Brady. Has helped his team go from scoring 18 ppg before he got there,(remember, Lynch was already there) to scoring 26 ppg the last 3 years. Has 15 game winning drives or 4th quarter comebacks the last 3 years. More if I am not mistaken than any other QB in that time period. Helped his team to two Super Bowl games back to back, losing one on the one yard line.
So tell me. What exactly is he not doing? What is he supposed to be doing to "earn" his money that he's not doing now?
Throwing the ball 37 times a game? (if he had, over three years he would have 14,000+ yards and over 105 TD's)
Passing for 4,000 yards a year?
Don't worry, I don't expect a real answer because so far no one can come with anything other than, "Well he has a good defense, which helps him win." Not one person can name one thing he should be doing better.
And since it's "obvious" to you he is not top 5 QB. Please list your requirements for what it takes to be a top 5 QB.
BTW, while he has $22 million a year in new money, I was warned by a Packer fan to be careful using that figure(I used the new money in Rodgers contract and got blasted for it). Since he signed and extension it comes out to about $18 million a year. He does not hit the top 5 QB's in cap figures until 2018. Of Course by that time Eli Manning will have new contract and so will Luck, Griffin Rivers, Brees and Bradford. Which should keep him down at 10th.
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Comp Attmpt % PAPG Yards YPA TD TD % INT INT% Rate
Aaron Rodgers 905 1362 66.4% 33.1 11,212 8.2 94 6.9% 19 1.4% 108.9
Peyton Manning 1245 1839 67.7% 38.3 14,863 8.1 131 7.1% 36 2.0% 107.7
Ben Roeth. 1067 1641 65.0% 36.3 12,478 7.6 86 5.2% 31 1.9% 100.1
Drew Brees 1324 1979 66.9% 41.2 15,291 7.7 115 5.8% 48 2.4% 99.2
Russell Wilson 794 1252 63.4% 26.1 9,950 7.9 72 5.8% 26 2.1% 98.6
Tony Romo 1071 1618 66.2% 35.1 12,436 7.7 93 5.7% 38 2.3% 98.6
Philip Rivers 1095 1641 66.7% 34.2 12,370 7.5 89 5.4% 44 2.7% 96.0
Tom Brady 1154 1847 62.5% 38.5 13,279 7.2 92 5.0% 28 1.5% 94.4
Matt Ryan 1276 1894 67.4% 39.4 13,928 7.4 86 4.5% 45 2.4% 94.1
Alex Smith 764 1190 64.2% 28.9 8,315 7.0 54 4.5% 18 1.5% 93.5
Well, elite QB's don't rush. It's not something people want to talk about. He is good at what he does. He is on the right team at the right time. His rushing abilities put him in the category of "game Manager" for most people. After all, an elite QB stays in the pocket and passes the ball, runs only when he has to.DK Sweets wrote:I really don't know why we're not even bringing up Russell Wilson's athletic ability like he wasn't 16th in the league in rushing yardage last season.
Numbers that were clearly skewed by playing with the lead. They are a defense that has been mediocre at best for years.Jordysghost wrote: While the Packers only have one SB thus far in Rodgers tenure, saying they havent put a good team around him is sketchy at best. The defense was top 5 in 2009, 2010, 12th ranked in 2012, and 15th last year. Leaving 2011 and 2013 as the outlier.