More New England Cheating?

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frosted
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by frosted » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:58 pm

I don't know I was just saying it since it doesn't look like it's been mentioned yet. It sounded sketchy considering he had to bribe people to do it. Rodgers stated that they over inflate the ball I heard too.


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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by Mothman » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:01 pm

frosted wrote:I don't know I was just saying it since it doesn't look like it's been mentioned yet. It sounded sketchy considering he had to bribe people to do it. Rodgers stated that they over inflate the ball I heard too.
I imagine that sort of stuff goes on all the time. If the league isn't sufficiently regulating something, you can bet some players or teams are trying to use it to create an advantage. It's the sort of thing that's been going on since the early days of the sport.
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by Crax » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:01 pm

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... /22113343/

I don't know what kind of equipment they have on the sideline there, but when I'm inflating my motorcycle tires without a gauge built into the pump, it's a trial and error scenario. It sounds like it would be difficult for a ball boy to get all 11 of them deflated the same especially when it doesn't sound like they have access to a pump. It would have had to happen before the game most likely which means the refs didn't really check them.
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by frosted » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:01 pm

https://twitter.com/kevinclarkwsj/statu ... 8856306688

It sounds like those involved in the game find it humorous that this situation is receiving so much press/shock/outrage.


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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by The Breeze » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:26 pm

Larry Fitzgerald was the master of this...they called him Dr. Balls.
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by Cliff » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:41 pm

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. All of the rules in the NFL appear to be flexible and only enforced or not as refs see fit depending on who the league thinks should win a particular game. These are the same officials that can't consistently call pass interference or holding (even with the benefit of instant replay!) ... why should I expect them to have any consistency in something as detail orientated as both teams using a ball with the same attributes.

I guess in the end it's par for the course for the WCW ... errr ... NFL I mean.
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by Crax » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:19 pm

The only way this makes sense to me is if this was all done pregame and was expecting the ref to not check. I've decided the scenario happened in the following manner:

Pats inflate 11 balls to lowest possible or a bit lower than usual. They then inflate 1 ball to normal
Pats equipment manager takes 11 in a bag and 1 outside the bag to hand to the referee 2:15 before the game.
The NFL referees are too busy doing arm curls to check all 12. They only check the 1 handed to them by the equipment manager.
They then spend the rest of time doing curls to make sure they look good on TV.
NFL then acts surprised when the balls are checked later.

This whole time we've assumed the pre-game check was performed as outlined and the balls were deflated somewhere in the middle. I've yet to hear what the pre-game PSI levels were. This is assuming a lot as it's assuming that the NFL refs actually did their job before the game. They have a hard enough time doing it during the game it seems.
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by The Breeze » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:48 pm

New England Deflaitriots
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by Mothman » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:24 pm

Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer weighs in on 'Deflategate'
... Zimmer — when asked Wednesday at the Senior Bowl about the ball deflation controversy that has emerged in the wake of the Patriots’ AFC title game thrashing of the Colts — wasn’t buying it.
“I think it was like 41-7, right?” Zimmer said, according to NFL.com. “I don’t think the balls had a lot to do with it.”
... the Vikings were EMBROILED IN CONTROVERSY over a somewhat similar ball situation earlier this season (and by that we mean it passed with barely a whimper aside from a warning and reminder from the league), when sideline attendants were shown heating footballs against league rules during Minnesota’s freezing 31-13 win over the Panthers.
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by losperros » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:17 pm

I think Zimmer is right on target. The game was a mismatch.
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by Demi » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:43 pm

So that makes it ok to cheat? :confused:
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by Mothman » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:52 am

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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by The Breeze » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:21 am

Again I wouldn't try to have anyone believe that the amount of air in the Pats footballs led to victory, but it is cheating according to the rules. And if the advantage gained by deflating balls is so miniscule, why would you even do it and take the risk? Because the penalty is nothing?

Practicing with scuffed cruddy balls to prepare for any condition is a great tactic IMO and it would make having a doctored gameball even more effective on gameday.

Belichek could know nothing about this...it could be a McDaniels/Brady thing, but it just adds to the image of the Pats stepping on the rules to their own tune adding to the list of double standards that are standard for the NFL. I really doubt that BB approved anything like this...maybe I'm naive.

Assuming they did this intentionally there should be a severe punishment...not for deflating footballs but for cheating. Cheating should be it's own rule and it would make more sense to me if there was baseline league-wide punishment for it, regardless of the severity of the cheating, that would be strong enough to dissuade teams from doing it. It effects the integrity of the game.

They could use this to set a precedent. Maybe a draft pick. I really don't know what kind of penalty would be effective.
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by Texas Vike » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:12 pm

Crax wrote:The only way this makes sense to me is if this was all done pregame and was expecting the ref to not check. I've decided the scenario happened in the following manner:

Pats inflate 11 balls to lowest possible or a bit lower than usual. They then inflate 1 ball to normal
Pats equipment manager takes 11 in a bag and 1 outside the bag to hand to the referee 2:15 before the game.
The NFL referees are too busy doing arm curls to check all 12. They only check the 1 handed to them by the equipment manager.
They then spend the rest of time doing curls to make sure they look good on TV.
NFL then acts surprised when the balls are checked later.

This whole time we've assumed the pre-game check was performed as outlined and the balls were deflated somewhere in the middle. I've yet to hear what the pre-game PSI levels were. This is assuming a lot as it's assuming that the NFL refs actually did their job before the game. They have a hard enough time doing it during the game it seems.
:rofl:

Love the arm curls comment. That's so true. Ed Hochuli was the forerunner of the middle aged NFL referee with huge biceps. Curls for the girls. It now seems to be the norm.
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Re: More New England Cheating?

Post by Mothman » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:18 pm

This whole thing seems like a tempest in a teapot to me. I'm not endorsing cheating. The rules are in place and should be enforced but I also think, in the big picture, this is a very minor violation and probably not all that unusual. I think teams and players are constantly doing little things like this to gain whatever slight advantage they believe it gives them (see the link I posted above about the Vikings heating footballs on the sidelines during the Panthers game this season, Warren Sapp's comments about Brad Johnson using pine tar, Johnson's own comments about paying to have footballs scuffed up for the Super Bowl, Aaron Rodgers wanting the ball over-inflated, etc.). In many cases, any advantage provided might be more psychological than anything else. Football history is littered with examples of teams doing whatever they can to gain some sort of competitive advantage.

According to a report on PFT, "there’s no reason to believe the officials should have noticed anything unusual" and, according to a league source, "a pressure difference of one or two pounds would not be obvious, if the official is not specifically looking for it." If that's the case, and the difference in air pressure isn't even noticeable without testing, how significant of an advantage could under-inflated footballs possibly have provided? According to the same report, the officials were aware of the issue in the first half and "the league opted not to stop the game during the first half but to test the balls at halftime". That alone tells me this isn't very significant in terms of impact on the game.

The NFL should determine who was responsible for this, fine or otherwise punish them and then take steps to prevent it from happening again. If this stuff is truly important, regulate it and make it impossible for teams and players to mess with the footballs used in the game. The mere fact that this wasn't being done also tells me it was of minimal importance to just about everyone.
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