I don't think I've ever seen a fake, but I have seen a botched snap converted for 2.dead_poet wrote:Can you presently fake-kick an extra point for two points? I don't think I've EVER seen this done.
No more extra point?
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Re: No more extra point?
Re: No more extra point?
The first ever 2 point conversion was a fake PAT attempt. The holder Tommy Tupa ran it up the middle. And no it wasn't a botched hold, it was a legit fake. I'm sure there have been more, but that's the only one I recall.
If they had a practical alternative to the PAT then I would be in favor of a change, but just automatically giving a team 7 points is more boring than the PAT itself, and would eliminate a strategic component of the game. Down by 8 in the 3rd quarter do you chase the points and go for 2 or do you wait and see how things play out?
You could move the kick back to make the PAT less automatic but that presents at least 1 big problem ... what about the 2 point conversion? You can leave it at the 2 and only move the PAT back, but that removes the possibility of a fake. And what about a botched snap? It becomes a 2 point conversion attempt but now you'd be 10 yards further back than a normal 2 point conversion. And what about the drop kick? If the PAT is moved back and the 2 point conversion stays at the 2, where does Doug Flutie kick his drop kick from?
I'd actually be in favor of moving the 2 point conversion back as well to keep it consistent. It might even be easier to convert a 2 pointer from further back because you'd have a little more room to work with and the D would be more spread out. Teams that need to go for 2 are going to go for 2 no matter where you move it.
But if they remove the conversion a team can no longer opt for a game winning 2PC over a tying PAT. Again not that it happens all that often, but Tice pulled one off back in 2002. In an otherwise forgettable game in a forgettable season, that single play made the game memorable.
Another option would be to use a narrower set of goal posts for PAT's only. Normal goal posts are 18 and a half feet wide so you could add another set of posts that are only 10 or 12 feet wide for PAT's.
One thing is clear though, football isn't going to be recognizable by the time Goodell is done with it. Why doesn't he stop messing with the things that aren't broke and get to work on the things that desperately need fixing. Like the refs and the instant replay system.
If they had a practical alternative to the PAT then I would be in favor of a change, but just automatically giving a team 7 points is more boring than the PAT itself, and would eliminate a strategic component of the game. Down by 8 in the 3rd quarter do you chase the points and go for 2 or do you wait and see how things play out?
You could move the kick back to make the PAT less automatic but that presents at least 1 big problem ... what about the 2 point conversion? You can leave it at the 2 and only move the PAT back, but that removes the possibility of a fake. And what about a botched snap? It becomes a 2 point conversion attempt but now you'd be 10 yards further back than a normal 2 point conversion. And what about the drop kick? If the PAT is moved back and the 2 point conversion stays at the 2, where does Doug Flutie kick his drop kick from?
I'd actually be in favor of moving the 2 point conversion back as well to keep it consistent. It might even be easier to convert a 2 pointer from further back because you'd have a little more room to work with and the D would be more spread out. Teams that need to go for 2 are going to go for 2 no matter where you move it.
But if they remove the conversion a team can no longer opt for a game winning 2PC over a tying PAT. Again not that it happens all that often, but Tice pulled one off back in 2002. In an otherwise forgettable game in a forgettable season, that single play made the game memorable.
Another option would be to use a narrower set of goal posts for PAT's only. Normal goal posts are 18 and a half feet wide so you could add another set of posts that are only 10 or 12 feet wide for PAT's.
One thing is clear though, football isn't going to be recognizable by the time Goodell is done with it. Why doesn't he stop messing with the things that aren't broke and get to work on the things that desperately need fixing. Like the refs and the instant replay system.
"Our playoff loss to the Vikings in '87 was probably the most traumatic experience I had in sports." -- Bill Walsh
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dead_poet
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Re: No more extra point?
Mark Craig on TwitterDumping the extra-point kick is long overdue. But make 2-point tries mandatory.
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Re: No more extra point?
Didn't that just happen to the Vikings last year?glg wrote: I don't think I've ever seen a fake, but I have seen a botched snap converted for 2.
54 seconds in;
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... highlights
There was also a fake XP from the Bears in 2013 but it was a pass, I think.
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Funkytown
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Re: No more extra point?
Good memory. I know I've seen it happen, too. I just didn't remember when.Cliff wrote: Didn't that just happen to the Vikings last year?
54 seconds in;
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... highlights
There was also a fake XP from the Bears in 2013 but it was a pass, I think.
Good work!
Re: No more extra point?
I'm not real keen on changing it, but it does seem more or less automatic right now in the NFL. Moving it back a bit may not be too bad. The funny thing is, it's not automatic at all in college. Teams with bad kickers miss the XP all the time and it can make a big difference.
If they're going to screw with it, they should try a few different things in the preseason just to get a feel for them. Give the team a possibility for 2 on the XP kick by snapping it from the 29.
If they're going to screw with it, they should try a few different things in the preseason just to get a feel for them. Give the team a possibility for 2 on the XP kick by snapping it from the 29.
Re: No more extra point?
A change like that would be beneficial for teams with a good field-goal kicker. (which means with Blair Walsh-I'm all for it!).Crax wrote:I'm not real keen on changing it, but it does seem more or less automatic right now in the NFL. Moving it back a bit may not be too bad. The funny thing is, it's not automatic at all in college. Teams with bad kickers miss the XP all the time and it can make a big difference.
If they're going to screw with it, they should try a few different things in the preseason just to get a feel for them. Give the team a possibility for 2 on the XP kick by snapping it from the 29.
I've told people a million times not to exaggerate!
Re: No more extra point?
Why is the strategy any different than today? The only difference is that the kicker doesn't have to actually kick the PAT if you choose 1.Reignman wrote:If they had a practical alternative to the PAT then I would be in favor of a change, but just automatically giving a team 7 points is more boring than the PAT itself, and would eliminate a strategic component of the game. Down by 8 in the 3rd quarter do you chase the points and go for 2 or do you wait and see how things play out?
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Raptorman
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Re: No more extra point?
How about a third option. Make the extra point worth more if it is kicked from a further distance. Say, 2 points from 35 yards, and 3 points from 50 yards.
Vikings fan since Nov. 6, 1966. Annoying Packer fans since Nov. 7, 1966
Re: No more extra point?
I say dispose of touchdowns and field goals altogether and just have extra points. Once a team gets within "field goal" range, they can kick an extra point. If the LoS is inside the 10, a good kick is worth 1. If it's inside the 20, it's worth 2, etc., up to a maximum of 5 points.
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Football is saved!
Re: No more extra point?
Wait, wait ... I've got it all figured out.
Do the extra point and a play at the same time! The FG is worth 1, the point try is worth 2 for a total of 3 possible points on the play. Perfect.
Do the extra point and a play at the same time! The FG is worth 1, the point try is worth 2 for a total of 3 possible points on the play. Perfect.
Re: No more extra point?
Yes, Yes! Implement all of these changes in a game at the end of the season to test it out. They can call it the Sole-Faux-Pro-Bowl!
I've told people a million times not to exaggerate!
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indianation65
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Re: No more extra point?
Yes, change it, but don't get rid of it.
Run a play from 2 yard line=1 point
Run a play from 4 yard line=2 points
...wisdom ?
Run a play from 2 yard line=1 point
Run a play from 4 yard line=2 points
...wisdom ?
...spirits in the wind and the trees
Re: No more extra point?
This whole "Get rid of the extra point because it's automatic" talk has got me thinking ... was there a time when it was much more difficult? Did they miss 5 a season instead of 2?
Re: No more extra point?
At one point it was far less of a sure thing... I'm not sure exactly when that was the case but it wasn't always the "automatic" afterthought it is today.Cliff wrote:This whole "Get rid of the extra point because it's automatic" talk has got me thinking ... was there a time when it was much more difficult? Did they miss 5 a season instead of 2?