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 Saints investigated for "Bounty Program" 
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
i dont want too see anyone lose there jobs. good punshiment imo. except for some bumps and bruises no damage done by the saints. no major injuries. wouldnt mind seeing an asterick by the saints super bowl win. favre took to much punishment. refs should have ejected a few saints out of the game imo.


Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:18 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
More Ignorance:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ny-player/

Quote:
“It’s something the league felt they had evidence on, but I mean the thing that I will say about it is, I mean the whole label of bounty is absurd,” Porter said Friday, according to Jeff Legwold of the Denver Post. “There was definitely no bounty on any player out there in any game, we were just playing football


:wallbang:

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nathan702nelson says:
Mar 24, 2012 5:06 PM
Just shut up already. You were found guilty days ago, and you’re still claiming you’re innocent. Face it, It’s OVER! Cry me a hurricane.


:rofl: Ha ha ha ha ha I'm crying! Gotta love those PFT commenters!

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Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:26 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
:hang:


Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:36 pm
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Post Re: Brad Johnson a Bounty Target In 2006
Mothman wrote:
I agree with those blasting Williams and I'm glad he was suspended indefinitely. It certainly won't break my heart if he never coaches in the NFL again.

However, while the "money on the table", coach-sanctioned nature of bountygate has everybody justifiably upset and angry, I've said all along that it would be naive to think NFL defenders haven't been trying to beat up QBs for years to throw them off their game or knock them out of games. For decades, the stated goal of many defensive linemen (at least after they left the game and were comfortable talking openly) has been to knock out the opposing QB. It's not new and it would be naive to think it is. I don't know how widespread cash bounties have been (hopefully, they aren't common) but the mentality of hammering an opponent right out of the game is as old as it is ugly. That doesn't mean it's right but it would be naive to think it wasn't going on and it's probably widespread.

All of this is meant to serve as an intro to the stories at the link below, which reveals that our beloved Vikes may have been coaching their defenders to injure opposing quarterbacks:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports ... nents.html

Former Vikings defensive tackle Brad Culpepper claims coaches taught him and teammates how to injure opposing quarterbacks:

Quote:
... when he broke into the league with the Minnesota Vikings in 1992, he and his defensive teammates were instructed by coaches on the most effective way to injure opposing quarterbacks and knock them out of games.

“We practiced techniques to injure players,” Culpepper said. “We would dive on a mat and aim for the knee portion of a pad like it was the quarterback, and we would practice going at that and trying to bust the quarterback’s knee. You knock the quarterback out, you win the game.”

I've been trying to do some research on this, Jim. What I'm trying to find out is what makes the Saints' actions so much worse than what most people seem to feel is commonplace in the NFL. Honestly, what I'm finding is murky at best.

Here's the most detailed explanation I can find, and even IT is kind of non-specific ...

Mike Freeman of CBSSports.com wrote:
But players also describe the bounty system as a clumsy apparatus that rarely works.

"It's actually almost impossible to do the stuff you set out to do," one AFC player said.

That's because bounties are usually done by defensive teams, and since there are newer rules that protect offenses more than ever, bounties have become far less effective. The penalties, fines and suspensions make the bounty system not worth it.

What makes the most recent case involving the Saints so unusual, players say, was the highly sophisticated system was organized by Gregg Williams, the defensive coach who has been linked to bounty systems in New Orleans, Washington and Buffalo, the latter two according to several published reports. Players interviewed said they have never heard or seen anything remotely close to what Williams and Saints are said to have done by NFL investigators.

This is the crux of this story and why the NFL is reacting so strongly. While bounties have long existed -- going back decades, most infamously associated with Buddy Ryan and the Philadelphia Eagles in the 1980s -- what the Saints did was institutionalize them.

Read the full story.

As nearly as I can tell, the reason the Saints' actions are different is that they were actually sanctioned by the coaches, specifically Williams, instead of the players themselves. What constitutes a "highly sophisticated system" isn't clear, but it seems clear that the difference is in WHO sponsored the program, and the level to which it was taken. If the bounty payments were large enough to offset potential fines the NFL would levy, or mitigate the loss of pay through suspensions, that's pretty serious.

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Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Brad Johnson a Bounty Target In 2006
Mothman wrote:

Former Vikings defensive tackle Brad Culpepper claims coaches taught him and teammates how to injure opposing quarterbacks:

Quote:
... when he broke into the league with the Minnesota Vikings in 1992, he and his defensive teammates were instructed by coaches on the most effective way to injure opposing quarterbacks and knock them out of games.

“We practiced techniques to injure players,” Culpepper said. “We would dive on a mat and aim for the knee portion of a pad like it was the quarterback, and we would practice going at that and trying to bust the quarterback’s knee. You knock the quarterback out, you win the game.”

That's just despicable......
I can't imagine trying to intentionally wreck another guys knee. It's the most chicken$#!* thing for a football player to do IMO. Zero integrity.

Like Demi said, there's no sense complaining about rules protecting QBs.

I think this game has come a long ways over the last 10 years and I see the current suspensions as good moves by the league.


Last edited by The Breeze on Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:46 pm
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Post Re: Brad Johnson a Bounty Target In 2006
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
As nearly as I can tell, the reason the Saints' actions are different is that they were actually sanctioned by the coaches, specifically Williams, instead of the players themselves. What constitutes a "highly sophisticated system" isn't clear, but it seems clear that the difference is in WHO sponsored the program, and the level to which it was taken. If the bounty payments were large enough to offset potential fines the NFL would levy, or mitigate the loss of pay through suspensions, that's pretty serious.


Indeed.

Thanks for that link. That's one of the best pieces I've read on this subject. I've reached the same point you've reached. As far as I can tell, it's the organization and degree of participation by coaches that is setting the Saints actions apart.

Tom Powers has written an interesting column relating to Brad Culpepper's comments:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... rs-charges


Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:20 am
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Post Re: Brad Johnson a Bounty Target In 2006
Mothman wrote:
Tom Powers has written an interesting column relating to Brad Culpepper's comments:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... rs-charges

Thanks for posting the article. I kinda disagree with him about people seeking attention......maybe some guys feel like they need to get it off their chests. Nor do I agree with just focusing on the Saints and not mentioning the past. If coaches like Dungy were involved they should be called out and renounce this kind of thing.

I know football is a hard hitting violent affair....but I never would have thought that pro coaches would encourage their players to damage peoples knees and shoulders. Guess I'm a wee bit naive about all of this. :confused:

Slapshot indeed.


Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
Chris Doleman on Brad Culpepper's comments:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... injure-qbs

Quote:
Minnesota Vikings coaches used to teach players techniques to injure opposing quarterbacks, such as "trying to bust the quarterback's knee" and dislocate a shoulder, 1992-93 Vikings defensive lineman Brad Culpepper reportedly told an Orlando, Fla., radio station.

Not true, says newly elected Pro Football Hall of Fame defensive end Chris Doleman, Culpepper's Vikings teammate those two years.

"That wasn't a part of it. I would know. I was a starter," Doleman told the Pioneer Press when reached by phone Friday, March 23. "It was never about hurting a quarterback. Intimidating a quarterback, knocking him around - absolutely. One hundred percent. But not injuring."


Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:24 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
Mothman wrote:
Chris Doleman on Brad Culpepper's comments:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... injure-qbs

Quote:
Minnesota Vikings coaches used to teach players techniques to injure opposing quarterbacks, such as "trying to bust the quarterback's knee" and dislocate a shoulder, 1992-93 Vikings defensive lineman Brad Culpepper reportedly told an Orlando, Fla., radio station.

Not true, says newly elected Pro Football Hall of Fame defensive end Chris Doleman, Culpepper's Vikings teammate those two years.

"That wasn't a part of it. I would know. I was a starter," Doleman told the Pioneer Press when reached by phone Friday, March 23. "It was never about hurting a quarterback. Intimidating a quarterback, knocking him around - absolutely. One hundred percent. But not injuring."

I'd take Doleman's word over Culpepper's. If Culpepper's words were true, I would suspect that a. something would have come out sooner, and b. they would have injured a bunch of QBs back then which I don't remember them doing.

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Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:23 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Chris Doleman on Brad Culpepper's comments:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... injure-qbs

Quote:
Minnesota Vikings coaches used to teach players techniques to injure opposing quarterbacks, such as "trying to bust the quarterback's knee" and dislocate a shoulder, 1992-93 Vikings defensive lineman Brad Culpepper reportedly told an Orlando, Fla., radio station.

Not true, says newly elected Pro Football Hall of Fame defensive end Chris Doleman, Culpepper's Vikings teammate those two years.

"That wasn't a part of it. I would know. I was a starter," Doleman told the Pioneer Press when reached by phone Friday, March 23. "It was never about hurting a quarterback. Intimidating a quarterback, knocking him around - absolutely. One hundred percent. But not injuring."

I'd take Doleman's word over Culpepper's. If Culpepper's words were true, I would suspect that a. something would have come out sooner, and b. they would have injured a bunch of QBs back then which I don't remember them doing.


The original Powers article linked has some stuff from the time period in question. Does involve some QB's #### about it, but also Dungy/Teerlinck, said that the QB's were complaining about play that was forced by the rules, as the rules had recently outlawed hitting the QB high, so the Vikes players were tackling low because the rules required it, and were not targeting knees, etc.


Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:49 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
Quote:
As @morteport is reporting, Sean Payton has approached Bill Parcells about coaching the Saints this season.

Adam Schefter on Twitter

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Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:45 am
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
i thought sean payton couldnt get involved in activities regading the saints ? approaching bill parcells about being the interim coach isnt that getting involved ? :confused:


Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:54 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
dead_poet wrote:
Quote:
As @morteport is reporting, Sean Payton has approached Bill Parcells about coaching the Saints this season.

Adam Schefter on Twitter



What? How the hell is that fair? They should be forced to find the coach from within, not just hire whoever they want. Mr. Goodell better intervene here.

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Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:04 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
hibbingviking wrote:
i thought sean payton couldnt get involved in activities regading the saints ? approaching bill parcells about being the interim coach isnt that getting involved ? :confused:


Payton's suspension doesn't go into effect until April 1st, and then of course there's the appeals process which could delay things even longer.


Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:23 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
The Associated Press reports the NFLPA has warned players involved in the Saints' bounty scandal there is a possibility they could face criminal charges.

The NFLPA has "suggested" the players have a lawyer and union representative present when they meet with NFL investigators. It's extremely unusual for criminal charges to be pursued against athletes for actions committed on the field, but not unprecedented. Although there is still surprisingly little known about the player aspect of the bounty scandal, Saints MLB Jonathan Vilma may have the most to worry about.
Source: Associated Press

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Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:58 am
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
Pretty sure he's not coming back.

Saints Defense - TM - Saints

Yahoo Sports' Michael Silver has obtained audio of Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams instructing his defenders to physically injure 49ers offensive players during the clubs' 2011 playoff game.

The audio was captured by filmmaker Sean Pamphilon, who was doing a documentary on former Saints S Steve Gleason in his battle back from ALS. Gleason was on the sideline during the game. Williams speaks of dealing 49ers QB Alex Smith a "remember me" shot, re-injuring 49ers PR Kyle Williams, and hitting 49ers RB Frank Gore in the head during pileups. Williams wanted WR Michael Crabtree to suffer a debilitating injury. "We need to decide whether Crabtree wants to be a fake-ass prima donna or he wants to be a tough guy," Williams said. "We need to find that out, and he becomes human when you [expletive] take out that outside ACL."
Source: Yahoo Sports

Quote:
Keep in mind, NFL contacted Saints before these playoffs and basically told them to stop bounties. Saints didn't take warnings seriously.

Adam Schefter on Twitter

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Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:38 am
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
that audio of Williams should put an end to any appeal he or any of the Saints might have. the guy is dirty with a capital D.

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Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:55 am
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
Gregg Williams speech: Josh Sitton gets it

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By now you've either heard, or heard about, the explosive speech former New Orleans Saints Gregg Williams gave before January's playoff game against the San Francisco 49ers. In it, Williams encourages his players to injure specific 49ers opponents and reportedly made a hand signal that suggested he would reward the first injury with cash.

The release of the audio has spurred wide reaction, but to me this most disappointing one is the one that suggests it was typical in content and style to what NFL players regularly hear. If you read through ESPN analyst Tim Hasselbeck's Twitter timeline, you can see a pretty good discussion on that topic.

To me, that's an unfair over-generalization that glosses over the line Williams crossed. It's no different than saying every Democrat advocates for welfare and every Republican rails against science.

There are plenty of NFL coaches who do their jobs differently, and no less effectively, than the way you heard Gregg Williams do his. So I was glad to see at least one active player stand up for them Thursday morning via Twitter.

Green Bay Packers guard Josh Sitton listened to the audio and tweeted: "Gregg Williams sounds like a complete [expletive] a******. Glad he got suspended!"

When asked by a follower if Packers coaches talk to players that way, Sitton replied: "hell no."

It's fair to point out that Packers players, much like their division opponents in Minnesota, have a significant and emotional tie-in to this story. The NFL's official report on the Saints' bounty program mentioned four targeted quarterbacks by name. One was the Packers' Aaron Rodgers and another was Brett Favre when he played for the Vikings.

I don't want to come off as a prude. I understand that football is controlled barbarianism and that it's common for coaches to encourage players to "knock the [expletive] out" of their opponents. But the Williams speech, especially the references to causing specific injuries to certain players, goes way beyond the line of acceptable violence in the NFL. This is not normal, it shouldn't be acceptable and I'm glad that Sitton, for one, was willing to say so.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... on-gets-it

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Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:02 am
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
you guys are crazy. this is nothing more than sour grapes. the saints didn't play dirty against the vikes or anyone else.

much ado about nothing....

:popcorn:

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Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:13 am
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
If the players may face criminal charges these new audio clips should be enough to charge Williams with something.


Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:29 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
S197 wrote:
If the players may face criminal charges these new audio clips should be enough to charge Williams with something.


I agree. If they punish the players with legal fines they almost certainly have to punish the coaches legally as well. If not, that'd be akin to assassination being illegal but putting a hit out on somebody perfectly fine.

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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
I tell you what... this guy is mentally not right. He should be put in jail for a long time. What a disgusting story this is, and an enormous black eye on the Saints organization (understand I am not saying I like the Saints, but it is unfortunate that this has happened to any professional team). If the Vikings had done anything even remotely resembling a bounty that resulted in another player getting hurt, I woul dbe embarassed to be a fan of theirs.

Sean Peyton should be banned from the league as well. There is no way, absolutely no way on Earth, that he didn't know about this. They should have to give up more picks for this crap.

Unreal.

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Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:49 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
In case any of you want to witness the carnage.

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Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:43 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
Give 'em a fair trial and hang 'em.


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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
A friend of mine put this image together yesterday. I thought it was hilarious.

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Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:11 am
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
Mothman wrote:
A friend of mine put this image together yesterday. I thought it was hilarious.

Image



I like it!! Good job!

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Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:54 am
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
PurpleMustReign wrote:
I tell you what... this guy is mentally not right. He should be put in jail for a long time. What a disgusting story this is, and an enormous black eye on the Saints organization (understand I am not saying I like the Saints, but it is unfortunate that this has happened to any professional team). If the Vikings had done anything even remotely resembling a bounty that resulted in another player getting hurt, I woul dbe embarassed to be a fan of theirs.

Sean Peyton should be banned from the league as well. There is no way, absolutely no way on Earth, that he didn't know about this. They should have to give up more picks for this crap.

Unreal.


i agree. its not boxing or mma where you try to knock someone out. saints tried to knock out favre and warner and cripple people. its tackle football. if sean peyton didnt know what was going on he should have. :rip:


Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:40 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
Mothman wrote:
A friend of mine put this image together yesterday. I thought it was hilarious.


:appl:


Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:35 am
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
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NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has upheld the discipline issued to the Saints for their "bounty" program.


Link

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Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:51 pm
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Post Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"
Goddell should have added to the suspensions for wasting his time with the appeals.

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