Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

General discussions of other teams from around the league and general NFL events.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
hibbingviking
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7158
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:53 pm
Location: bakersfield california

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by hibbingviking » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:18 pm

i dont want too see anyone lose there jobs. good punshiment imo. except for some bumps and bruises no damage done by the saints. no major injuries. wouldnt mind seeing an asterick by the saints super bowl win. favre took to much punishment. refs should have ejected a few saints out of the game imo.

User avatar
HardcoreVikesFan
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6624
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:28 pm

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by HardcoreVikesFan » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:26 pm

More Ignorance:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ny-player/
“It’s something the league felt they had evidence on, but I mean the thing that I will say about it is, I mean the whole label of bounty is absurd,” Porter said Friday, according to Jeff Legwold of the Denver Post. “There was definitely no bounty on any player out there in any game, we were just playing football
:wallbang:
nathan702nelson says:
Mar 24, 2012 5:06 PM
Just shut up already. You were found guilty days ago, and you’re still claiming you’re innocent. Face it, It’s OVER! Cry me a hurricane.
:rofl: Ha ha ha ha ha I'm crying! Gotta love those PFT commenters!
A Randy Moss fan for life. A Kevin Williams fan for life.

User avatar
hibbingviking
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7158
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:53 pm
Location: bakersfield california

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by hibbingviking » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:36 pm

:hang:

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6918
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm

Re: Brad Johnson a Bounty Target In 2006

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:59 pm

Mothman wrote:I agree with those blasting Williams and I'm glad he was suspended indefinitely. It certainly won't break my heart if he never coaches in the NFL again.

However, while the "money on the table", coach-sanctioned nature of bountygate has everybody justifiably upset and angry, I've said all along that it would be naive to think NFL defenders haven't been trying to beat up QBs for years to throw them off their game or knock them out of games. For decades, the stated goal of many defensive linemen (at least after they left the game and were comfortable talking openly) has been to knock out the opposing QB. It's not new and it would be naive to think it is. I don't know how widespread cash bounties have been (hopefully, they aren't common) but the mentality of hammering an opponent right out of the game is as old as it is ugly. That doesn't mean it's right but it would be naive to think it wasn't going on and it's probably widespread.

All of this is meant to serve as an intro to the stories at the link below, which reveals that our beloved Vikes may have been coaching their defenders to injure opposing quarterbacks:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports ... nents.html

Former Vikings defensive tackle Brad Culpepper claims coaches taught him and teammates how to injure opposing quarterbacks:
I've been trying to do some research on this, Jim. What I'm trying to find out is what makes the Saints' actions so much worse than what most people seem to feel is commonplace in the NFL. Honestly, what I'm finding is murky at best.

Here's the most detailed explanation I can find, and even IT is kind of non-specific ...
Mike Freeman of CBSSports.com wrote:But players also describe the bounty system as a clumsy apparatus that rarely works.

"It's actually almost impossible to do the stuff you set out to do," one AFC player said.

That's because bounties are usually done by defensive teams, and since there are newer rules that protect offenses more than ever, bounties have become far less effective. The penalties, fines and suspensions make the bounty system not worth it.

What makes the most recent case involving the Saints so unusual, players say, was the highly sophisticated system was organized by Gregg Williams, the defensive coach who has been linked to bounty systems in New Orleans, Washington and Buffalo, the latter two according to several published reports. Players interviewed said they have never heard or seen anything remotely close to what Williams and Saints are said to have done by NFL investigators.

This is the crux of this story and why the NFL is reacting so strongly. While bounties have long existed -- going back decades, most infamously associated with Buddy Ryan and the Philadelphia Eagles in the 1980s -- what the Saints did was institutionalize them.
Read the full story.

As nearly as I can tell, the reason the Saints' actions are different is that they were actually sanctioned by the coaches, specifically Williams, instead of the players themselves. What constitutes a "highly sophisticated system" isn't clear, but it seems clear that the difference is in WHO sponsored the program, and the level to which it was taken. If the bounty payments were large enough to offset potential fines the NFL would levy, or mitigate the loss of pay through suspensions, that's pretty serious.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

The Breeze
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4016
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:14 pm
Location: So. Utah

Re: Brad Johnson a Bounty Target In 2006

Post by The Breeze » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:46 pm

Mothman wrote:
Former Vikings defensive tackle Brad Culpepper claims coaches taught him and teammates how to injure opposing quarterbacks:
That's just despicable......
I can't imagine trying to intentionally wreck another guys knee. It's the most chicken$#!* thing for a football player to do IMO. Zero integrity.

Like Demi said, there's no sense complaining about rules protecting QBs.

I think this game has come a long ways over the last 10 years and I see the current suspensions as good moves by the league.
Last edited by The Breeze on Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 37384
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Brad Johnson a Bounty Target In 2006

Post by Mothman » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:20 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:As nearly as I can tell, the reason the Saints' actions are different is that they were actually sanctioned by the coaches, specifically Williams, instead of the players themselves. What constitutes a "highly sophisticated system" isn't clear, but it seems clear that the difference is in WHO sponsored the program, and the level to which it was taken. If the bounty payments were large enough to offset potential fines the NFL would levy, or mitigate the loss of pay through suspensions, that's pretty serious.
Indeed.

Thanks for that link. That's one of the best pieces I've read on this subject. I've reached the same point you've reached. As far as I can tell, it's the organization and degree of participation by coaches that is setting the Saints actions apart.

Tom Powers has written an interesting column relating to Brad Culpepper's comments:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... rs-charges

The Breeze
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4016
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:14 pm
Location: So. Utah

Re: Brad Johnson a Bounty Target In 2006

Post by The Breeze » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:20 pm

Mothman wrote: Tom Powers has written an interesting column relating to Brad Culpepper's comments:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... rs-charges
Thanks for posting the article. I kinda disagree with him about people seeking attention......maybe some guys feel like they need to get it off their chests. Nor do I agree with just focusing on the Saints and not mentioning the past. If coaches like Dungy were involved they should be called out and renounce this kind of thing.

I know football is a hard hitting violent affair....but I never would have thought that pro coaches would encourage their players to damage peoples knees and shoulders. Guess I'm a wee bit naive about all of this. :confused:

Slapshot indeed.

User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 37384
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by Mothman » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:24 pm

Chris Doleman on Brad Culpepper's comments:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... injure-qbs
Minnesota Vikings coaches used to teach players techniques to injure opposing quarterbacks, such as "trying to bust the quarterback's knee" and dislocate a shoulder, 1992-93 Vikings defensive lineman Brad Culpepper reportedly told an Orlando, Fla., radio station.

Not true, says newly elected Pro Football Hall of Fame defensive end Chris Doleman, Culpepper's Vikings teammate those two years.

"That wasn't a part of it. I would know. I was a starter," Doleman told the Pioneer Press when reached by phone Friday, March 23. "It was never about hurting a quarterback. Intimidating a quarterback, knocking him around - absolutely. One hundred percent. But not injuring."

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 18398
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN
Contact:

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by PurpleMustReign » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:23 pm

Mothman wrote:Chris Doleman on Brad Culpepper's comments:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... injure-qbs
I'd take Doleman's word over Culpepper's. If Culpepper's words were true, I would suspect that a. something would have come out sooner, and b. they would have injured a bunch of QBs back then which I don't remember them doing.
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2017 #BringitHome‬

User avatar
glg
Site Admin
Posts: 10851
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by glg » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:49 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote: I'd take Doleman's word over Culpepper's. If Culpepper's words were true, I would suspect that a. something would have come out sooner, and b. they would have injured a bunch of QBs back then which I don't remember them doing.
The original Powers article linked has some stuff from the time period in question. Does involve some QB's #### about it, but also Dungy/Teerlinck, said that the QB's were complaining about play that was forced by the rules, as the rules had recently outlawed hitting the QB high, so the Vikes players were tackling low because the rules required it, and were not targeting knees, etc.

User avatar
dead_poet
Commissioner
Posts: 24451
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by dead_poet » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:45 am

As @morteport is reporting, Sean Payton has approached Bill Parcells about coaching the Saints this season.
Adam Schefter on Twitter
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

User avatar
hibbingviking
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7158
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:53 pm
Location: bakersfield california

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by hibbingviking » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:54 pm

i thought sean payton couldnt get involved in activities regading the saints ? approaching bill parcells about being the interim coach isnt that getting involved ? :confused:

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 18398
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN
Contact:

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:04 pm

dead_poet wrote: Adam Schefter on Twitter

What? How the hell is that fair? They should be forced to find the coach from within, not just hire whoever they want. Mr. Goodell better intervene here.
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2017 #BringitHome‬

User avatar
HornedMessiah
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:32 pm
Location: nodakoda

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by HornedMessiah » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:23 pm

hibbingviking wrote:i thought sean payton couldnt get involved in activities regading the saints ? approaching bill parcells about being the interim coach isnt that getting involved ? :confused:
Payton's suspension doesn't go into effect until April 1st, and then of course there's the appeals process which could delay things even longer.

User avatar
dead_poet
Commissioner
Posts: 24451
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

Post by dead_poet » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:58 am

The Associated Press reports the NFLPA has warned players involved in the Saints' bounty scandal there is a possibility they could face criminal charges.

The NFLPA has "suggested" the players have a lawyer and union representative present when they meet with NFL investigators. It's extremely unusual for criminal charges to be pursued against athletes for actions committed on the field, but not unprecedented. Although there is still surprisingly little known about the player aspect of the bounty scandal, Saints MLB Jonathan Vilma may have the most to worry about.
Source: Associated Press
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Post Reply