Saints investigated for "Bounty Program"

[PurpleHalo]

Really? So if if the refs had called the high/low hit, that would have lead to a first down...... that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game? ok.

Not to mention, there was an INT on that play that stood.

[me4get]

Paying someone to intentionally injure someone is a CRIME. Charge THEM ALL.

[purple guy]

Classic "point to bad behavior to justify other bad behavior" argument.

You're losing this argument hard, PG.

Nobody here said we lost the game because of dirty play. There were, however, certain plays, such as the first interception, that were influenced by dirty plays that weren't called. No matter what you say about the hit on Favre, the league issued fines, so it was illegal, by definition, something that 99% of the world knew the moment it happened. But just about every sane Vikings fan knows we lost the game because we turned the ball over six times and had a fairly crucial 12 men in the huddle penalty following a timeout.

The point here is that the entire bounty system is reprehensible. There's no place for it in football at any level, or in any other sport. As far as I'm concerned, the only sour grapes here is that I think just about any penalty the league levies on the Saints probably isn't severe enough.

Im losing an arguement?? Im not having an arguement. In my opinion, the bounty side of what the Saints did was wrong. On the field, they played just fine. Yea, they got flagged and fined, who cares, that happens in every game. They didnt play a cheap game, noone will ever convince me they did, so its not an arguement, Im stating my opinion, and couldnt care less if you or any other Vikings fan who is just bitter that the Vikings lost dont see it that way. Some are using the bounty crap to validate that the Saints played cheap football. To me they are 2 very separate issues, one is totally wrong. But their play on the field was fine.

Sore losers is how it seems to me. We lost a physical playoff football game. While the Saints shouldnt have had "bountys", they didnt resort to cheap or dirty play to attempt to collect those bountys, they were just physical and aggressive. Players get 15yd penalities in every game, so by your sore losers definations, every team/player is cheap and dirty. Im just not a sore loser or look for excuses, Ill leave this thread for those who feel better about the Vikings by whining about what another team supposedly did. Pathetic IMO.

[jackal]

I remember a lot of plays where the Saints players were twisting Farve's legs at the end of the tackle.

[dead_poet]

Sources "familiar with the investigation" confirm Rams DC Gregg Williams could be facing a fine or suspension for his role in the Saints' "bounty" program.

Williams issued an apology on Friday. "I want to express my sincere regret and apology ... for my participation in the 'pay for performance' program while I was with the Saints," Williams said. "It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role." Williams can be expected to serve a multi-game suspension next season as he attempts to turn around a Rams defense that allowed 25.4 points per game in 2011.
Source: St Louis Post-Dispatch

[dead_poet]

Former player speaks out on bounty program.

Bounties part of game across the NFL
It might not be right or ethical, but if winning means crossing a line, you do it

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/fo ... 992.column

[losperros]

Former player speaks out on bounty program.

Bounties part of game across the NFL
It might not be right or ethical, but if winning means crossing a line, you do it

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/fo ... 992.column

Wow! That's quite an article, DP. It sure gives insight to the mentality of winning at all costs.

And it sounds as if the Saints are far from being alone when it comes to bounties. That's unsettling.

[bpviking]

A Star Tribune "poster" expressed my exact sentiments about the NFC title game: "That "unpenalized hit" that is referred to . . let me jolt your memories. The league LATER apologized because they ADMITTED that the game officials blew it! THAT illegal play, when Favre was hit high AND low while still in the pocket, resulted in an interception. If the penalty had been called, the Vikings would have had the ball, first and 10 inside the Saints 20 yard line. Do YOU think it would have affected the outcome? As far as I am concerned, the league is at fault too because it was blatantly obvious that the league WANTED the Saints in the Super Bowl and they got what they wanted. All of the Saints coaches should be banned from NFL jobs forever, and it is time that the league FINED and SUSPENDED game officials when they screw up like they did in this game!"

This, to me, is NOT sour grapes but a true and realistic analogy of a main reason why the game was lost.
Favre is not going to complain about this because despite what any one says about him he is a true competitor and does not make excuses for losing. That crucial interception (thrown accross his body), was, in my opinion, largely due to the fact that although it appeared that he could have made the necessary yardage running his decision to throw had to be influenced by all of the damage (includeing his severly damaged ankle) he had sustained through all of the cheap shots the "bounty crew" had laid on him.
Yes turnovers and a costly 12 man on the field penalty played very significant parts for determining the outcome but any one would be a fool to believe that the "bounty crew's" cheap shots did not have a decisive bearing on this game.
I will take great delight in watching the league exact a large penalty on this organization.
On a side note, I would also take this opprotunity to again say to all of you complaining fans that have intimated or actually come out and said that the Vikings should have purposefully lost to Washington last year to secure a 2 pick in this years draft , just wait and see the fines and penalties that are bestowed on the Saints organization and then tripple that with what penalties which would have been levied on any NFL team for "throwing" a game.

[VikingLord]

Again, the "bounty" part WAS wrong/illegal. BUT, IMO they didnt resort to dirty play to collect on a bounty. They did get a couple 15yd penalities, but that happens EVERY week in almost EVERY game, by that standard, every team is cheap and dirty. The NFL investigated because the bounty is illegal, even if it is collected with clean play on the field. I think they should be punished for having a bounty on players, but just because they had that, doesnt make their play on the field dirty. To me, its 2 separate issues. One the bounty, which is wrong. Two, their play on the field, which was just fine, IMO. If every team that got flagged for a 15yd penality is a cheap and dirty team, that is all 32 teams in the NFL. Heck, as stated, they are only 8th in the NFL in such penalities since this supposed bounty thing started.

1. They were wrong to issue bountys.
2. They played fair, aggressive, tough football, not dirty or cheap, unless every team in the NFL is also labeled the same way. IMO.

Where do you draw the line between fair, aggressive, tough football and cheap shots? How would you know whether a team is trying to take cheap shots because money is on the table rewarding them for doing it and their coach expects them to try to do it because he's the one running the program?

The problem I have with your position is that because you didn't see anything egregious happen there was nothing wrong with the way the Saints played in that game or other games over the last 3 seasons. In my view, when coaches teach and reward players for trying to hurt other players, the chances one of those "aggressive", "tough" hits is going to cross a line and really injure someone, perhaps permanently, goes way up. So just because it doesn't happen in a particular game, it's only a matter of time before it does happen, and when it does we could be talking about a guy perhaps being paralyzed or something far more significant than a simple win or a loss in a game.

The other thing a program like this does is it encourages others to follow suit. This is like steroids in baseball. Once some guys start to do it and are rewarded for it, the pressure increases dramatically on everyone else to do it as well if they want to win and be successful. When it's a just a few individuals that's bad enough for fair competition, but when it's endemic and sanctioned by those who should know better like head coaches and a general manager, it's virtually guaranteed to become a cancer that spreads throughout the league.

The NFL has to come down extremely hard on this one, moreso I think because when the Saints had this program in place they actually won the Superbowl. This wasn't the only reason they won it and maybe it wasn't the main reason, but the last thing the league can afford is to send the message that this type of behavior will produce anything positive for the team(s) that engage in it.

[VikingLord]

On a side note, I would also take this opprotunity to again say to all of you complaining fans that have intimated or actually come out and said that the Vikings should have purposefully lost to Washington last year to secure a 2 pick in this years draft , just wait and see the fines and penalties that are bestowed on the Saints organization and then tripple that with what penalties which would have been levied on any NFL team for "throwing" a game.

There is a big difference between rewarding players for injuring opponents, spying on other team's practices and intercepting their signals, and simply resting your starters at the end of a lost season so you can begin assessing your younger players in preparation for the offseason and the following season. That last point is taking a long-term view and increasing your chances for success down the road, not "throwing" the game. While it does increase the likelihood off a loss I suppose, it's not cheating. Playoff teams do it all the time when they have nothing to play for and want to rest their starters. It's simply being pragmatic.

[VikingLord]

Wow! That's quite an article, DP. It sure gives insight to the mentality of winning at all costs.

And it sounds as if the Saints are far from being alone when it comes to bounties. That's unsettling.

Sure, if the Saints do it and not only get away with it, but win a Superbowl while doing it, the pressure goes up on everyone else to do the same. Completely predictable outcome if you ask me.

It will be very interesting to see what happens as a result of this. The league can also ill afford to treat this with kid gloves due to the threat of legal action from former players already hanging over it's head.

For as high as the Saints went when they won that Superbowl in 2009, When Goodell is done with them I think they'll be headed for an equivalent low place.

[dkoby]

On a side note, I would also take this opprotunity to again say to all of you complaining fans that have intimated or actually come out and said that the Vikings should have purposefully lost to Washington last year to secure a 2 pick in this years draft , just wait and see the fines and penalties that are bestowed on the Saints organization and then tripple that with what penalties which would have been levied on any NFL team for "throwing" a game.

Then the Colts should be banned from playing this year because leaving Curtis Painter as the starter seemed to me to be throwing the season.

[Crax]

I have absolutely no problem with a teammate or a DC rewarding guys a bonus for every sack they get or something along those lines.

At the same time, I would have a problem coming out and rewarding players for every horse collar tackle they make or every 15 yard style facemask.

Rewarding hard play within the rules? Great. Rewarding clearly illegal play? Terrible.

[Just Me]

I dunno, they won the game, flustered our QB enough to make a throw my 9yr old daughter wouldnt make, seemed pretty effective to me.

Disagree. (I'm going to let others argue te dirty/clean aspect and focus on your conclusion above). It was Childress who flustered Favre into making a pass he shouldn't have thrown. He needed to get it well within field goal range on that pass so that Childress wouldn't screw it up again (12 men on the field - remember?). Argue all you want about how "clean" the Saints played, I still say the coaching staff (ours) beat the Vikings in that game.

[hibbingviking]

Saints drove favre and warner in the ground. Suprised no personal foul penalties when they overly protect qbs. Probably why warner retired.