Vikings Message Board.Com

dead_poet wrote:Maybe I can help by posting a few of my notes/videos. Note, he obviously makes his share of good plays and can stay in a receiver's hip pocket at times. I'm not expecting him to be perfect here, but maybe I have higher expectations for his draft position.

(snip)

Again, I hate being put in position to say I don't like him. I do. I just don't think he's top-11 NFL draft good. He has areas that he really needs to improve. I think he can but I also don't think he's going to be a better pro than Rhodes.

He might not be...

I appreciate the effort you went to in that post. I saw the whole Baylor game and he did struggle in that one, although he was injured so that's a mitigating factor. I've seen the other videos you posted too and I can't argue that some of the plays you pointed to were bad plays. However, my take on that is that basically what I said above: every CB takes a bad angle, allows a TD, gives up an easy completion, etc. at times. I've never seen one who didn't so while I see evidence of that stuff on film of Waynes, and I definitely think he has flaws in his game that need improving, I find his overall body of work quite good. Regarding whether or not he's "top-11 NFL draft good": you know me, where he's picked doesn't matter much to me. If he was projected as a third-rounder then it would bug me but I'm fine with where they drafted him. He certainly wasn't going to be available in another round.

I hope none of that sounds dismissive. I see an occasional lack of awareness in his game but I see the opposite more often. I like what Zimmer said:

“I felt like he could help us a whole lot in a lot of different ways. Everybody bases the Pro Bowl on how many interceptions you get and you may get six or eight interceptions a year, I look at penalties and how many times you deny your guy the football and you have the chance to do that 40 times a ball game, so I think that’s important for our corners here.”

I think that's a great way to look at it.

Texas Vike wrote:Me too! In MPLS it was "Northern Lights" on Hennepin, "Electric Fetus" and later "Cheapo". Ah, the good old days, when you bought your music at a store and interacted with other humans in person about it!

It was nice. I could hang out in those places and look through the record bins for hidden gems for hours.

Mothman wrote:I appreciate the effort you went to in that post. I saw the whole Baylor game and he did struggle in that one, although he was injured so that's a mitigating factor. I've seen the other videos you posted too and I can't argue that some of the plays you pointed to were bad plays. However, my take on that is that basically what I said above: every CB takes a bad angle, allows a TD, gives up an easy completion, etc. at times. I've never seen one who didn't so while I see evidence of that stuff on film of Waynes, and I definitely think he has flaws in his game that need improving, I find his overall body of work quite good. Regarding whether or not he's "top-11 NFL draft good": you know me, where he's picked doesn't matter much to me. If he was projected as a third-rounder then it would bug me but I'm fine with where they drafted him. He certainly wasn't going to be available in another round.

I hope none of that sounds dismissive. I see an occasional lack of awareness in his game but I see the opposite more often. I like what Zimmer said:
I think that's a great way to look at it.

I know it looked like nitpicking but I was trying to get a representative sample. Are these issues chronic? Can they be fixed? I have no idea. As long as he ends up denying a reception more often than allowing one, great. Then we can talk about to what degree. He has a lot what you look for in a quality corner, including a willingness to learn. We all know Zimmer is going to be hard on him (as he was Rhodes) and he seems open to that. I think he can improve. Hopefully he helps make the defense even more formidable in pass protection and rush support. I could care less if he gets 13 interceptions or one. As long as he's not allowing a lot of completions, I'll be happy. I'll be excited to see him in camp.

dead_poet wrote:I know it looked like nitpicking but I was trying to get a representative sample.

No worries. Your intent was clear and I know you aren't down on Waynes, just a little concerned about aspects of his game. I feel the same way about Kendricks. I love his motor and his production but it seems to me he can play a little over-aggressive or out of control at times and I'm not sure if his size will prove detrimental against a power running game. I hope not.

Are these issues chronic? Can they be fixed? I have no idea. As long as he ends up denying a reception more often than allowing one, great. Then we can talk about to what degree. He has a lot what you look for in a quality corner, including a willingness to learn. We all know Zimmer is going to be hard on him (as he was Rhodes) and he seems open to that. I think he can improve. Hopefully he helps make the defense even more formidable in pass protection and rush support. I could care less if he gets 13 interceptions or one. As long as he's not allowing a lot of completions, I'll be happy. I'll be excited to see him in camp.

Well said.

Heck, I don't even worry so much about completions. If he does a good job of preventing big plays and scoring plays, and if he's effective on third down, that's what matters most to me. I take that back: fitting well into a defense that accomplishes those goals is what matters most to me.

Baylor did that to everyone this year! They routinely put up 40 to 70 points per game. I have to think part of the issue was scheme. I also think Bryce Petty was one heck of a QB--very accurate all over the field. I would've loved him in the 4th.

Mothman wrote: LOL! I didn't work in one of those shops but I sure frequented a lot of them! I felt like Cusack's character was visiting a bunch of my old hangouts when I watched that movie.

Record guy here too!