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HardcoreVikesFan wrote:I don't want Bortles at all. I saw Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks both mocked Bortles to us at eight. Bortles only has height on Ponder. His arm is pretty comparable to Ponder. Plus, Bortles grades out as a guy 'who can make all the throws.' Where have we heard that before?
I dont like Bortles either, not even in the second round, Id much rather take my chances with a guy like Aaron Murray in the 4th round who is coming off an injury. People forget that Murray was once projected to be a first round draft pick and has also been a 4 year starting QB in the SEC running a pro style offense. A lot of people are negative about his size as a QB but guys like Brees, and Wilson have shown that a smaller QB can succeed in the NFL. Murray also gets rid of the ball fast and can throw significantly better than ponder .
Loki wrote:As far as Bortles if you think hes another Ponder/Gabbert you're way off. if we have a shot at him at eight we need to pull the trigger. he might take a season to fully adjust to the nfl but he will be a playmaker.
I don't know if Spielman can really pull the trigger at #8 on a guy like Bortles. Heck, despite the fact I like him and think he's going to be a very good pro, I'm not sure Spielman should pull the trigger at #8 on Manziel. That's a high pick to blow on a QB unless you're certain about it, and I can't see how anyone could be certain about any of the QB's in this year's class past Bridgewater. I'm surprised to see a guy like Kiper projecting Manziel and Bortles to go ahead of Bridgewater, but if that happens I'd be thrilled.
Regarding Bortles, I think he could have used another year at school. My main concern about him is how rapidly he's risen up draft boards and the fact that there are aspects of his game that, if they don't improve, will be significant problems at the pro level. The issues I see are not ones that necessarily can be coached out of a player, either, so if I'm drafting a QB at the top of the 1st round, I don't want to have to believe the issues can be coached out. I want to see them coached out before I draft the guy. Manziel, for all the criticism about his game in his freshman year, actually came out and demonstrated an ability to sit in the pocket and make throws. He heard the criticisms, he worked on them during his offseason, and he came back and showed he could correct them while remaining dynamic and effective. Bortles could have used some of the same to ease fears about his game.
After looking at some of Johnny Manziel's highlights I'm not so sure he's worthy of a top 10 pick.
He's confident, athletic, fast, has more than adequate arm strength and has that "it" factor that much I'll give him. What I have a problem with though is he seems to throw too many balls up for grabs, he takes too many hits, and the only time I see him step up in the pocket is to run. If he had Kaepernick or Newton size I think he would be fine, but with more RGIII type size I think he's going to have some injury concerns and will throw a lot of interceptions that he got away with in college.
MrPurplenGold wrote:After looking at some of Johnny Manziel's highlights I'm not so sure he's worthy of a top 10 pick.
He's confident, athletic, fast, has more than adequate arm strength and has that "it" factor that much I'll give him. What I have a problem with though is he seems to throw too many balls up for grabs, he takes too many hits, and the only time I see him step up in the pocket is to run. If he had Kaepernick or Newton size I think he would be fine, but with more RGIII type size I think he's going to have some injury concerns and will throw a lot of interceptions that he got away with in college.
It's definitely possible. The team that acquires him may have to show the kind of patience Green Bay showed with Favre. It could pay off as it did with Favre too but Manziel's style, if it translates well to the pros at all, could lead to both some spectacular plays and successes and some incredibly frustrating turnovers and failures.
Mothman wrote:
It's definitely possible. The team that acquires him may have to show the kind of patience Green Bay showed with Favre. It could pay off as it did with Favre too but Manziel's style, if it translates well to the pros at all, could lead to both some spectacular plays and successes and some incredibly frustrating turnovers and failures.
I think he will go in the top 10 I just don't know if there's a situation in the top 10 that benefits him. If he goes to Houston, Jacksonville, Cleveland or Oakland, or the Vikings for that matter he'll be going into situations where he's asked to start from day one. His expectations will be extremely high because of his swagger and the hype that surrounds him and I just don't know if this is going to be a good situation for him and I think his scale tips more towards bust than boom.
When do trades have to take place? Like all the dealings, esp. with QBs. Because Im not entirely sure both Teddy and JFB will be gone with QBs like Cousins still in the mix. I just hope JFB is picked. He's almost as much of a nightmare for me as Ponder playing QB next year.
Jimmy Garoppolo
School: Eastern Illinois
Muench: "He's a hot name for good reason. There are some things he needs to work on, especially his footwork in the pocket. But he's got a lightning-quick release, enough arm strength and a pretty decent frame (6-foot-3, 223 pounds). If there weren't concerns about the level of competition, he could be a first-round guy. We have him as a third- or fourth-round guy, but a lot of people are excited about him."
AJ McCarron
School: Alabama
Muench: "If you're a team like Seattle, with a good defense and running game, and you need a guy to play well but maybe not elite, McCarron is probably the best example of that kind of player. You look at how many games he's won and how well he played in college. That speaks to something. The concern comes down to arm strength. He doesn't have the strongest arm. He will never be that vertical guy. But if you're looking for someone to play under those circumstances, to run your offense even if he is never an elite quarterback, I can see it for sure."
Logan Thomas
School: Virginia Tech
Muench: "He is a Kaepernick type in that he's very athletic and has a great arm. But in his case, there are questions about his accuracy, footwork and decision-making. I was at the Senior Bowl and the team sitting behind us was saying they would love to draft him and rebuild. You look at him and he's 6-5 1/2, he's 250 pounds and he has huge hands (10.6 inches), which is a big deal for quarterbacks. Teams with a good offensive system might want to take him and do what the 49ers did with Kaepernick. Use him as a backup for a year, year and a half, and then play him. He'll be the type who can make plays with his feet and be a powerful runner while he is learning the pro passing game."
Zach Mettenberger
School: LSU
Muench: "He tore his ACL [last fall] but mobility wasn't really an aspect of his game anyway. There are some who will say that his offensive coordinator, Cam Cameron, made things easy for him and that he had a great supporting cast there. But he is has an NFL brain, he's 6-5 and 240 pounds and he has maybe the strongest arm in this class. We have a third-round grade on him."
Those were the four candidates Muench gave me when we discussed this premise. I then asked about two other quarterbacks whom even casual college football observers would be aware of in this draft.
Aaron Murray
School: Georgia
Muench: [Like Mettenberger, Murray tore his ACL last fall.] "He's tough and accurate, but people are going to look at his size. He's not even 6-1 and he's 200 pounds with smaller hands. What it will come down to for him is that this injury and his frame makes durability a legitimate concern. Some people see the frame and say, 'Russell Wilson,' but Russell Wilson is a far better athlete. He's a fourth-round talent."
Tajh Boyd
School: Clemson
Muench: "You're looking at a successful college player, but the scheme he played in raises a lot of questions about his ability to transition. You watch tape and see him having a hard time with his progressions and you wonder how much practice he's had doing what he'll have to do in the NFL. What he ran at Clemson is a package in the NFL, not an offense. You have to make plays in the pocket in the NFL, and that's a huge problem for Boyd based on what we've seen. I could see him as a late-fifth-round guy."
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
Here are some interesting tweets from NFLN reporter Albert Breer:
Mar 3
Did some kicking around on the draft QBs over the weekend, and the opinions vary wildly from evaluator-to-evaluator in ranking this class.
1) Found a little more doubt than I thought I would on Manziel. Several folks mentioned Kyle Shanahan as someone who could make it work.
2) I was surprised to hear one veteran personnel man I respect a bunch say Derek Carr was the best QB in the group.
3) Most common comparison I heard for Blake Bortles was Andrew Luck, though Bortles is not quite the athlete, and not nearly as developed.
4) I think personnel folks see Bridgewater like this -- Very good in a lot of areas, but not special. And they worry about his frame.
5) The biggest knock on McCarron -- You don't see him enough where everything is breaking down around him. And the OU game raised concerns.
6) Mettenberger is going to entice teams. Absent the ACL injury, I know at least one club who'd have had him No. 1 among the QBs.
The more I see snippets of information emerge regarding how the evaluators for actual NFL teams feel regarding the QBs in this draft, the more I think a one or two of the "big 3" QBs could drop and that QB-needy teams might be looking to move back into the late first round or wait until the second to address the position. Bortles has the measurables teams look for so he probably won't drop but I find it increasingly easy to imagine Bridgewater and Manziel being available to the Vikings at #8 or even later.
I'm not predicting that scenario but I don't think it's far-fetched either. It really depends on how much difference evaluators see between Bridgewater and Manziel and players like Carr and Mettenberger, as well as how they feel about the other top 10 talent available.
Mothman wrote:Here are some interesting tweets from NFLN reporter Albert Breer:
The more I see snippets of information emerge regarding how the evaluators for actual NFL teams feel regarding the QBs in this draft, the more I think a one or two of the "big 3" QBs could drop and that QB-needy teams might be looking to move back into the late first round or wait until the second to address the position. Bortles has the measurables teams look for so he probably won't drop but I find it increasingly easy to imagine Bridgewater and Manziel being available to the Vikings at #8 or even later.
I'm not predicting that scenario but I don't think it's far-fetched either. It really depends on how much difference evaluators see between Bridgewater and Manziel and players like Carr and Mettenberger, as well as how they feel about the other top 10 talent available.
I'm basically repeating myself too. I think that possibility has been clear for months. It's just becoming more "real' to me as I hear more about how some of the teams and scouts perceive these players.
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I think that possibility has been clear for months. It's just becoming more "real' to me as I hear more about how some of the teams and scouts perceive these players.