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 Troubling 
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Fenrir
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Post Re: Troubling
It probably depends on what moves the front office makes at the end of the season. Our top 3 DE's will be free agents and Williams will be a year closer to retirement. Assuming they can come to terms with 2 of the 3 DE's and Floyd shows some promise, the mocks will likely change.


Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:50 pm
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Post Re: Troubling
Allen, Robison, Griffen, and Williams are all in the final year of their contract. Three of them are over 30 as well. It's definitely an area of need. Considering the defense, even more so....


Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:03 pm
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Post Re: Troubling
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I count at least 10 that I like.


As the voice of reason ( :lol: ). I'll disagree. Bridgewater, Boyd. Jaguars, Browns. We're screwed. Manziel, Mariota, if you work around their limitations you might have some success. Will we? Not with this coaching staff. You can't mess with this position. And that's what you do if you just draft one of the "rest" that are available. Hope they don't repeat the mistake they made last time.

Too many athletes. I think the college game is going to hurt the NFL game. Too hard to project to traditional offenses. Too many teams not adjusting to the strength of what the NCAA QBs are being scouted/recruited/started to do.

We need a QB, desperately, more than any other position. But we won't have the ability to get one. And drafting the best of the rest isn't going to cut it. If we try, we'll flush another 5 years down the toilet. Just like I said when we drafted Ponder. I doubt we're top 3. Possibly top 5. More like top 5-10. maybe 15 at best (worst?). not worth spending that pick on a QB considering the difference between a QB and other positions we have a need at.

We're just not bad enough to try and address the position. We need to buy time, or not. Draft a later round prospect and see if they have it. Or run a veteran and try to compete. Would be much easier to draft any of the half dozen positions we also need than to try and address the QB position at the point we'll be drafting. Looking back, Ponder isn't any better in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. That's the issue with QBs. You can't try and force it (doesn't matter "getting a guy you like and working with them for years") you need someone with very specific skill set, and it's hard to find. Looking at that list...there might not be anyone with long term franchise QB skill set. If that means looking at another position, possibly even defensive line...so be it.


Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:28 pm
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Post Re: Troubling
What makes anyone believe that Mariota can't play in the pocket?

I don't wish to debate it... just wanna hear the mindframe on that. I completely disagree.

I doubt he comes out early unless the Ducks win it all, any way.

Also, I think Manziel is quite capable as well. That guy is a lot smarter about football and QBing than most people think. He needs to mature physically and rein in his ad-libbing for the NFL. But to dismiss him right now as being unable to play from the pocket is a bit presumptuous IMO.


Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:14 am
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Post Re: Troubling
80 PurplePride 84 wrote:
The Breeze wrote:
What makes anyone believe that Mariota can't play in the pocket?

I don't wish to debate it... just wanna hear the mindframe on that. I completely disagree.

I doubt he comes out early unless the Ducks win it all, any way.

Also, I think Manziel is quite capable as well. That guy is a lot smarter about football and QBing than most people think. He needs to mature physically and rein in his ad-libbing for the NFL. But to dismiss him right now as being unable to play from the pocket is a bit presumptuous IMO.


Not saying he can't but it's tough to take a guy out of a read-option system and turn him into a pure pocket passer.



OK. That's more fair IMO.

I was listening to the Nebraska HC talk last week before the UCLA game. He seemed to believe that the way college QBs are being groomed that the read option is here to stay for a cycle. However long that might be is anyone's guess. His main point being that pocket passers are just not being developed at the collegiate level because more and more big programs are running the read and spread offenses. I think Demi was alluding to that a bit above.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out in the NFL. May take would be that if you need a QB, and a stud from either discipline(pocket vs read) is available, cater your system to his strengths rather than try and make him something else.


Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:06 am
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Post Re: Troubling
80 PurplePride 84 wrote:
This is a really deep QB class. I count at least 10 that I like. Obviously not all will pan out, but still.

*=underclassman

Bridgewater*
Boyd
Hundley*
Manziel*
Mariota*
Murray
Fales
Carr
McCarron
Hogan*
Morris
Renner

All have 1st/2nd round potential



Then there's late round flier guys such as Mettenberger, Keeton, Miller*, Keith Price and Logan Thomas

I've liked Carr for awhile. The guy has great instincts and gets rid of the ball very quickly. He's 6'3" and really sees the field well. He followed his brother by going to Fresno St...I wonder how much playing there hurts his draft stock.

Anyway he just torched Boise for 460yds and 4TDs.


Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:42 pm
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Post Re: Troubling
I am really liking what I have seen from Derek Carr and David Fales so far this season. Those two are definitely guys I would enjoy having on the Vikings.

Manziel and Mariota are the two wildcard guys I would like to have as well. By drafting those two we could totally change the offensive scheme here.

I definitely do not see us finishing the season so #### that we have a chance for Teddy. I also highly doubt we will have a chance for Tajh Boyd either.

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Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:06 am
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Post Re: Troubling
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
I am really liking what I have seen from Derek Carr and David Fales so far this season. Those two are definitely guys I would enjoy having on the Vikings.

Manziel and Mariota are the two wildcard guys I would like to have as well. By drafting those two we could totally change the offensive scheme here.

I definitely do not see us finishing the season so #### that we have a chance for Teddy. I also highly doubt we will have a chance for Tajh Boyd either.


Boyd looked lost against the Seminoles last night. Cannon for an arm, but he misfired often. 34.7 QBR; 2 picks (easily could have been 4) 150 yards passing. His stock dropped in my eyes.


Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:13 am
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Post Re: Troubling
Mannion threw for 481 yesterday. I watch a lot of Pac-12 football and he's gotta be up there with a lot of these guys getting mentioned. He's also not some athletic qb, he's a pocket passer. I'd take mannion over hundley no question.


Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:27 am
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Post Re: Troubling
Crax wrote:
Mannion threw for 481 yesterday. I watch a lot of Pac-12 football and he's gotta be up there with a lot of these guys getting mentioned. He's also not some athletic qb, he's a pocket passer. I'd take mannion over hundley no question.


That's the kid from Wash St?

The difficulty w/ evaluating NCAA QBs is that a lot depends on the opposing Ds that they face. Pac 12 has some soft Ds, similar to the conference I watch most, the Big 12. I look at QBs that had huge numbers (McCoy, Bradford, any Texas Tech QB) and rarely do they succeed at the next level. That's what concerned me about Boyd last night. The Seminoles' D made him look really pedestrian.

What's your sense w/ this Mannion kid? Does he do well against the better Ds (Stanford... anyone else play solid D out there? (Yes, I'm far from expert on the pac 12).


Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:39 am
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Post Re: Troubling
Texas Vike wrote:
Crax wrote:
Mannion threw for 481 yesterday. I watch a lot of Pac-12 football and he's gotta be up there with a lot of these guys getting mentioned. He's also not some athletic qb, he's a pocket passer. I'd take mannion over hundley no question.


That's the kid from Wash St?

The difficulty w/ evaluating NCAA QBs is that a lot depends on the opposing Ds that they face. Pac 12 has some soft Ds, similar to the conference I watch most, the Big 12. I look at QBs that had huge numbers (McCoy, Bradford, any Texas Tech QB) and rarely do they succeed at the next level. That's what concerned me about Boyd last night. The Seminoles' D made him look really pedestrian.

What's your sense w/ this Mannion kid? Does he do well against the better Ds (Stanford... anyone else play solid D out there? (Yes, I'm far from expert on the pac 12).

Mannion is at Oregon State....haven't watched him this season. His big test will be against the Ducks in the final game IMO.


Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:28 am
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Post Re: Troubling
Yes, oregon state. Oregon state did lose to Eastern Washington this year, but still scored like 49. Mannion hasn't thrown for less then 367 yards in a game. Utah's defense is decent and it was the quality of throws I was impressed with. Brandin Cooks is a talented receiver, but Mannion can really make some tight throws and does a good job on the harder throws like fade routes. I don't care about the super athletic qb's as much as guys that can stand back, go through reads, and make the pass. I don't care that Mannion rushed for 0 or negative yards in all his games.

Here's his stats so far: http://espn.go.com/college-football/pla ... an-mannion
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Mannion is at Oregon State....haven't watched him this season. His big test will be against the Ducks in the final game IMO.

Yeah, Oregon St has upset highly ranked Oregon teams in previous years, so that game should be good.

OST plays standford next week so that will be a good test as well.


Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:16 pm
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Post Re: Troubling
Crax wrote:
Yes, oregon state. Oregon state did lose to Eastern Washington this year, but still scored like 49. Mannion hasn't thrown for less then 367 yards in a game. Utah's defense is decent and it was the quality of throws I was impressed with. Brandin Cooks is a talented receiver, but Mannion can really make some tight throws and does a good job on the harder throws like fade routes. I don't care about the super athletic qb's as much as guys that can stand back, go through reads, and make the pass. I don't care that Mannion rushed for 0 or negative yards in all his games.

Here's his stats so far: http://espn.go.com/college-football/pla ... an-mannion
Quote:
Mannion is at Oregon State....haven't watched him this season. His big test will be against the Ducks in the final game IMO.

Yeah, Oregon St has upset highly ranked Oregon teams in previous years, so that game should be good.

OST plays standford next week so that will be a good test as well.

Stanford has a tendency to make good QBs a non-factor, while the Ducks have been very good at garnering picks this season. Both of those games will be big for Mannion. He's pretty highly thought of in these parts...the Beaver defense is what holds that team back, otherwise Mannion would be more well known. I can't remember for sure but I think he got hurt toward the end of last season and missed some games which may be another reason he's not as publicized.


Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:48 pm
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