Not Another Te'o Post

[saint33]

All I have to say is that it sounds like your expectations of him were a little hard, and you may have been expecting something unrealistic while watching him. Kind of like when you hear nothing but great things about a movie you haven't seen for weeks, then you go see it yourself and are severely underwhelmed because your expectations could never be matched.

Manti Te'o not an out of this worldly god-like figure. He is a very solid and intelligent football player. If you are expecting an incredible showcase of athleticism, then you're bound to be let down, cause that's not what he is. But if your looking for a sound football player, who will fill his role on a defense and bring leadership and a spark when needed to a defense, then he's the kind of player you'd want to have.

Ignore the hype and ignore the media attention. That's all I can really say. Look at him as a player and compare him to the highlight reels of other top LB prospects and then make your own judgements. The problem with the media attention that he's received is that it works on both aspects of the spectrum and has turned him into this polarizing figure. For awhile there were some who loved the kid and praised him far beyond what he truly deserved and then when that hype and praise started to come down to a more realistic level, people have seemed to take it too far, and now they view him as much lesser football player than he truly deserves.

[saint33]

And as far as personality goes, I think your judging him based off interviews and other things where he's been put in a very difficult place. He's a humble and soft spoken kid in his regular life, no doubt. But many players have a very distinctly different off field personality from their on field personality, and think Te'o fits that bill. You can see his demeanor on the football field, the way he carries himself the way he guides and responds to other players. Everything I've seen from his "football" personality exudes leadership qualities.

If want to get a small glimpse into how he'll handle himself and handle the "harshness" of the players around him (with the Catfish scandal) I suggest you look for the show Game Changers on NFL Network. If you don't have the channel, I'm sure you could find it online somewhere. He showed the exact demeanor that he always showed on the field when they got him into drills on the show. At one point, Tyler Eifert was running routes against him and they said something about imaginary routes or movements or something along those lines. Can't remember the exact thing they were talking about, but the word imaginary was used in reference to something on the football field, and Te'o out of the blue in a very joking manner said something along the lines of "enough of this imaginary stuff". It might be just my opinion, but watching that was simply a glimpse into how he'll handle the teasing he'll face. Just laugh it off and play along. I really doubt he'll be "eaten alive" in an NFL locker room. As long as he takes it lightheartedly and proves himself on the football field, there won't be an issue.

[saint33]

I think it's a real possibility, but they did sign DJ Williams and James Anderson

[mondry]

Can't remember the exact thing they were talking about, but the word imaginary was used in reference to something on the football field, and Te'o out of the blue in a very joking manner said something along the lines of "enough of this imaginary stuff".

I saw that segment, I believe what he said is "I'm pretty good at imaginary stuff" and everyone got a good laugh out of it. I think he'll be capable of rolling with the punches.

[Funkytown]

All I have to say is that it sounds like your expectations of him were a little hard, and you may have been expecting something unrealistic while watching him. Kind of like when you hear nothing but great things about a movie you haven't seen for weeks, then you go see it yourself and are severely underwhelmed because your expectations could never be matched.

Manti Te'o not an out of this worldly god-like figure. He is a very solid and intelligent football player. If you are expecting an incredible showcase of athleticism, then you're bound to be let down, cause that's not what he is. But if your looking for a sound football player, who will fill his role on a defense and bring leadership and a spark when needed to a defense, then he's the kind of player you'd want to have.

Ignore the hype and ignore the media attention. That's all I can really say. Look at him as a player and compare him to the highlight reels of other top LB prospects and then make your own judgements. The problem with the media attention that he's received is that it works on both aspects of the spectrum and has turned him into this polarizing figure. For awhile there were some who loved the kid and praised him far beyond what he truly deserved and then when that hype and praise started to come down to a more realistic level, people have seemed to take it too far, and now they view him as much lesser football player than he truly deserves.

Very solid assessment and advice! Thank you! You made a lot of sense here.

[VikingLord]

I still don't see how Teo is being talked about as a 1st round prospect. In fact, I can't recall a pro prospect where such a major part of his "positives" are non-football attributes. People who like Teo seem to like him almost as much for his "intangibles" as anything he actually brings to the football field. The problem I have with that is that those characteristics only get a guy so far. The comparison to Tim Tebow is still apt in the Teo case. Tebow was a similar college star. Underwhelming physical attributes and style, but intangibles and leadership off the charts. The dude had what could almost be called a cult-like following in college. Problem is, nobody cared about any of that in the pros. In the pros, Tebow just couldn't cut the mustard, intangibles or not.

And here is another cult of personality playing for a high-profile team with a lot of similar hype IMHO. Despite some real and obvious physical limitations, those who love Teo seem to love him no matter what. His leadership skills, his passion, etc., will somehow overcome his obvious lack of speed, inability to cover down the field, etc. If Toms, Dicks, and Joes like us can see the limitations just watching highlights, offensive coordinators are going to active gameplan to target those limitations. They're going to force Teo to cover their fast, shifty slot receivers, or worse, their bigger, more athletic tight ends. They're going to target him, and when they do, all of this hype around Teo is going to evaporate like snow in Minnesota in May.

I really don't have a problem with the Vikings drafting Teo. My issue is using a high pick to draft a guy who I see as a 2-down backer at *best*. If Spielman does that I will have serious doubts about his and his staff's ability to judge *talent* and be objective about it. They had a really solid draft last year and Spielman badly needs a repeat this year. I appreciate that the Vikings want character players, and I appreciate that Teo appears to be a character player, but he's not a 1st round talent. I don't like him in the 2nd round either and would accept him in the 3rd (I wouldn't like it, but I would accept it).

[Purple bruise]

I will be amazed if Teo makes it out of the 1st round. Either the Bears or Vikings will draft him and I hope that it is the Vikings that make that pick. The usual naysayers will do their usual ####" and complaining but Teo will be another Norte Dame standout fixture on the team just as Rudolph, Sullivan and Smith have been

[saint33]

I still don't see how Teo is being talked about as a 1st round prospect. In fact, I can't recall a pro prospect where such a major part of his "positives" are non-football attributes. People who like Teo seem to like him almost as much for his "intangibles" as anything he actually brings to the football field. The problem I have with that is that those characteristics only get a guy so far. The comparison to Tim Tebow is still apt in the Teo case. Tebow was a similar college star. Underwhelming physical attributes and style, but intangibles and leadership off the charts. The dude had what could almost be called a cult-like following in college. Problem is, nobody cared about any of that in the pros. In the pros, Tebow just couldn't cut the mustard, intangibles or not.

And here is another cult of personality playing for a high-profile team with a lot of similar hype IMHO. Despite some real and obvious physical limitations, those who love Teo seem to love him no matter what. His leadership skills, his passion, etc., will somehow overcome his obvious lack of speed, inability to cover down the field, etc. If Toms, Dicks, and Joes like us can see the limitations just watching highlights, offensive coordinators are going to active gameplan to target those limitations. They're going to force Teo to cover their fast, shifty slot receivers, or worse, their bigger, more athletic tight ends. They're going to target him, and when they do, all of this hype around Teo is going to evaporate like snow in Minnesota in May.

I really don't have a problem with the Vikings drafting Teo. My issue is using a high pick to draft a guy who I see as a 2-down backer at *best*. If Spielman does that I will have serious doubts about his and his staff's ability to judge *talent* and be objective about it. They had a really solid draft last year and Spielman badly needs a repeat this year. I appreciate that the Vikings want character players, and I appreciate that Teo appears to be a character player, but he's not a 1st round talent. I don't like him in the 2nd round either and would accept him in the 3rd (I wouldn't like it, but I would accept it).

I think you are far to caught up in the media attention and the athleticism, and you're not acknowledging Te'o as a football player. That's where your Tebow comparison is so far off the mark. Tebow was a player who had an unorthodox style of play for his position and lacks the most key aspect of his position, however was able to succeed and excel at the college level because the systems that are run and are successful in college are vastly different than those in the NFL. Manti Te'o is not an unorthodox MLB. He does not lack the most basic abilities that a middle linebacker must have. In fact, if anything, Te'o excels in the most important aspect of a linebacker's job and that's reading and reacting.

I don't understand where your comparison comes from. His athleticism is not exceptional, it is average for the position. Football is not a game of athleticism as much as it is a game of intelligence. Te'o may not be an exceptional athlete, but he is not inferior athlete either. He's easily athletic enough to be a 3 down linebacker, there are many of them in the league. Brandon Spikes ran a 5.00 flat forty time and is a very successful linebacker for the Patriots. Te'o's 10 and 20 yard times were some of the best at the position. This is not a kid who is a liability physically, he's just not an elite physical specimen.

But what he lacks in athleticism he makes up for in intelligence and instinct. He reads plays better then any other LB in college football. He trusts his eyes better then the other LBs, and he pursues the football exceptionally. He is not a strong in man to man coverage, but he does understands zone concepts and knows where to be and can get to those spots on the field. And his instincts in coverage have improved, he has learned to read the QB in coverage and make plays around the ball. It's why he interested 7 passes this past year as apposed to 0 the year before. Like any other draft pick around where we pick, he comes with concerns. He is not a perfect prospect by any means, but he's a damn good football. Intangibles or no intangibles, it's true that he's a good football player. When you add in the intangibles, he's a very attractive prospect. Intangibles are not imaginary, they very real things as well, it's intangibles that allows an average athlete, with a decent arm who gets drafted in the 6th round become one of the greatest QBs of all time.

And when we're talking about intangibles, well just watch this video

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-t ... ntangibles


Again this is only a piece of the puzzle, I am not saying that this kid should be a 1st round pick because he has intangibles. I'm saying he should be a first round pick because he a very strong MLB prospect, who also happens to be a great leader and made those around him better at Notre Dame.

And I cannot express enough times that he is nothing like Tim Tebow, he is not a player who severely lacks the skills it takes to be successful at his position.

[Mothman]

really don't have a problem with the Vikings drafting Teo. My issue is using a high pick to draft a guy who I see as a 2-down backer at *best*. If Spielman does that I will have serious doubts about his and his staff's ability to judge *talent* and be objective about it.

It seems pretty clear that you have those doubts already. You've expressed them numerous times.

The Te'o/Tebow comparisons remain strained at best.

[dead_poet]

I still don't see how Teo is being talked about as a 1st round prospect. In fact, I can't recall a pro prospect where such a major part of his "positives" are non-football attributes. People who like Teo seem to like him almost as much for his "intangibles" as anything he actually brings to the football field. The problem I have with that is that those characteristics only get a guy so far. The comparison to Tim Tebow is still apt in the Teo case. Tebow was a similar college star. Underwhelming physical attributes and style, but intangibles and leadership off the charts. The dude had what could almost be called a cult-like following in college. Problem is, nobody cared about any of that in the pros. In the pros, Tebow just couldn't cut the mustard, intangibles or not.

And here is another cult of personality playing for a high-profile team with a lot of similar hype IMHO. Despite some real and obvious physical limitations, those who love Teo seem to love him no matter what. His leadership skills, his passion, etc., will somehow overcome his obvious lack of speed, inability to cover down the field, etc. If Toms, Dicks, and Joes like us can see the limitations just watching highlights, offensive coordinators are going to active gameplan to target those limitations. They're going to force Teo to cover their fast, shifty slot receivers, or worse, their bigger, more athletic tight ends. They're going to target him, and when they do, all of this hype around Teo is going to evaporate like snow in Minnesota in May.

I really don't have a problem with the Vikings drafting Teo. My issue is using a high pick to draft a guy who I see as a 2-down backer at *best*. If Spielman does that I will have serious doubts about his and his staff's ability to judge *talent* and be objective about it. They had a really solid draft last year and Spielman badly needs a repeat this year. I appreciate that the Vikings want character players, and I appreciate that Teo appears to be a character player, but he's not a 1st round talent. I don't like him in the 2nd round either and would accept him in the 3rd (I wouldn't like it, but I would accept it).

I think it comes down to this:

Heisman Trophy Runner-Up (2012)
Lott Trophy (2012)
Maxwell Award (2012)
Chuck Bednarik Award (2012)
Walter Camp Award (2012)
Bronko Nagurski Trophy (2012)
Butkus Award (2012)
Lombardi Award (2012)
Senior CLASS Award (2012)
ARA Sportsmanship Award (2012)[1]
Unanimous First Team All-American (2012)
Capital One First Team Academic All-American (2012)
2× FBS Independent Defensive Player of the Year (2011, 2012)

How in the world does a guy win all of these national (largely playing) awards voted on by peers, coaches and media and be a "third-round talent?" It doesn't make sense. The answer, I believe, is one of two possibilities:

#1: Your expectations for a first-round MLB are exceptionally high and nearly unattainable. Anything less than Patrick Willis is undeserving of a first-round selection. Perhaps you were taken in by the hype and are expecting Te'o to live up to the unrealistic expectations that came with that.
#2: This was a poor MLB draft class and Te'o was the best of that group.

I have a hard time believing a decorated player like Te'o, who has put up the kinds of stats he has put up over his career, is the level of player you see. Even if you discount a couple of his 7 interceptions this season to fluke tips, he still had 11 defended passes, which is solid to say the least and indicative of his coverage ability. For comparison, in 2012 Ogletree had 4 PDs and 1 INT. Arthur Brown had 4 PDs and 2 INTs.

You may very well be right and Te'o will be a colossal bust in the NFL. But his stats and accolades (combined with the consensus from experts around the country) say he's a late-first/early second round talent.

I also think it would be wise to temper your expectations when it comes to athleticism. As you know, outstanding athleticism doesn't guarantee NFL success. Conversely, all the intangibles in the world won't make an unathletic player successful. There's a balance that must be found. All of Ogletree's speed won't mean a lick if he's out of position or slow to react. And Te'o's great instincts won't be able to make up for not being able to physically get to the position his brain is telling him to go because he truly might not be "NFL fast." They could both flame out. They could both excel and be Hall of Famers. We just don't know. But the overwhelming evidence suggests that while both aren't Patrick Willis, they have the resume and tape to be selected in the top 40 or 50.

[Texas Vike]

I think it comes down to this:

Heisman Trophy Runner-Up (2012)
Lott Trophy (2012)
Maxwell Award (2012)
Chuck Bednarik Award (2012)
Walter Camp Award (2012)
Bronko Nagurski Trophy (2012)
Butkus Award (2012)
Lombardi Award (2012)
Senior CLASS Award (2012)
ARA Sportsmanship Award (2012)[1]
Unanimous First Team All-American (2012)
Capital One First Team Academic All-American (2012)
2× FBS Independent Defensive Player of the Year (2011, 2012)

How in the world does a guy win all of these national (largely playing) awards voted on by peers, coaches and media and be a "third-round talent?" It doesn't make sense. The answer, I believe, is one of two possibilities:

#1: Your expectations for a first-round MLB are exceptionally high and nearly unattainable. Anything less than Patrick Willis is undeserving of a first-round selection. Perhaps you were taken in by the hype and are expecting Te'o to live up to the unrealistic expectations that came with that.
#2: This was a poor MLB draft class and Te'o was the best of that group.

I have a hard time believing a decorated player like Te'o, who has put up the kinds of stats he has put up over his career, is the level of player you see. Even if you discount a couple of his 7 interceptions this season to fluke tips, he still had 11 defended passes, which is solid to say the least and indicative of his coverage ability. For comparison, in 2012 Ogletree had 4 PDs and 1 INT. Arthur Brown had 4 PDs and 2 INTs.

You may very well be right and Te'o will be a colossal bust in the NFL. But his stats and accolades (combined with the consensus from experts around the country) say he's a late-first/early second round talent.

I also think it would be wise to temper your expectations when it comes to athleticism. As you know, outstanding athleticism doesn't guarantee NFL success. Conversely, all the intangibles in the world won't make an unathletic player successful. There's a balance that must be found. All of Ogletree's speed won't mean a lick if he's out of position or slow to react. And Te'o's great instincts won't be able to make up for not being able to physically get to the position his brain is telling him to go because he truly might not be "NFL fast." They could both flame out. They could both excel and be Hall of Famers. We just don't know. But the overwhelming evidence suggests that while both aren't Patrick Willis, they have the resume and tape to be selected in the top 40 or 50.

Case closed. Put a bow tie on this thread.

[losperros]

I also think it would be wise to temper your expectations when it comes to athleticism. As you know, outstanding athleticism doesn't guarantee NFL success. Conversely, all the intangibles in the world won't make an unathletic player successful. There's a balance that must be found. All of Ogletree's speed won't mean a lick if he's out of position or slow to react. And Te'o's great instincts won't be able to make up for not being able to physically get to the position his brain is telling him to go because he truly might not be "NFL fast." They could both flame out. They could both excel and be Hall of Famers. We just don't know. But the overwhelming evidence suggests that while both aren't Patrick Willis, they have the resume and tape to be selected in the top 40 or 50.

Your entire post was a great read. Thanks for that. I haven't had the opportunity to see much of Te'o and it's great to get some info from those of on the board that are better acquainted with his skills.

I'm quoting the above paragraph because it's such a valid point about the difference between college and pro ball. Great athleticism is always a plus for any player, but it's far more important in college ball. That's why we oftentimes see great athletes become college superstars but emerge as only average NFL players (or even become busts).

You're right. We don't know if Te'o and/or Ogletree will be big pro stars or disappointments. Still, I can guarantee that for both the ability to mentally comprehend the needs of the NFL game will be first and foremost the key to their outcomes. As for their physical skills, they are two different LBs in how they play but I think they both have already demonstrated that they are gifted athletes.

[VikingLord]

So I post and say that Teo's stock is relatively high due to his intangibles and I get a bunch of responses that basically say his stock is high because of his intangibles. People who like Teo don't like the Tebow comparisons because, as we know, Tebow was *obviously* physically flawed in college for his spot while Teo is not so obviously physically flawed. Yet, due largely to hype, Tebow with all of his more obvious shortcomings was still taken with a 1st round pick by a team that couldn't wait to ship him and his great intangibles somewhere else not long after drafting him.

All I can say is there appears to be a lot of people on this board who have convinced themselves that Teo is everything he's cracked up to be. And I want to say, I am *NOT* predicting he is going to be a bust in the pros. I don't know. He may very well succeed. What I am trying to say is that all of those awards really mean nothing in the pros. All of those intangibles are going to amount to a hill of beans if Teo can't cover the deep middle of the field or effectively track shifty and athletic slot WR's and TE's. They won't.

Anyway, let the chips fall where they may, but in my view Teo is a middle-round prospect and until I see him in the pros proving me wrong in that assessment I'm not going to change my mind on that. He could in fact turn into one of the all-time great 2-down MLB's in league history.

[Mercy Percy]

So I post and say that Teo's stock is relatively high due to his intangibles and I get a bunch of responses that basically say his stock is high because of his intangibles. People who like Teo don't like the Tebow comparisons because, as we know, Tebow was *obviously* physically flawed in college for his spot while Teo is not so obviously physically flawed. Yet, due largely to hype, Tebow with all of his more obvious shortcomings was still taken with a 1st round pick by a team that couldn't wait to ship him and his great intangibles somewhere else not long after drafting him.

All I can say is there appears to be a lot of people on this board who have convinced themselves that Teo is everything he's cracked up to be. And I want to say, I am *NOT* predicting he is going to be a bust in the pros. I don't know. He may very well succeed. What I am trying to say is that all of those awards really mean nothing in the pros. All of those intangibles are going to amount to a hill of beans if Teo can't cover the deep middle of the field or effectively track shifty and athletic slot WR's and TE's. They won't.

Anyway, let the chips fall where they may, but in my view Teo is a middle-round prospect and until I see him in the pros proving me wrong in that assessment I'm not going to change my mind on that. He could in fact turn into one of the all-time great 2-down MLB's in league history.

You are comparing Apples to Oranges in Tebow and Te'o Tebow cant throw the ball which is essential for a quarterback.

How many MLB's are frequently covering Slot WR's and TE's Would you rather have a MLB that can barely tackle? Is weak inside and gets pushed around? But can cover the middle of the field well? Or have someone who can do both things fairly well? 11 passes deflected is pretty good for a MLB also some of those interceptions are also because of his intangibles, and putting himself in the right situation at the right time, and hustling to the ball. So he wont turn into a great 3 down MLB in league history? Earlier in the year we were wishing that we would be able to snag Te'o now that we should be able to not so many people want him anymore.

[dead_poet]

All I can say is there appears to be a lot of people on this board who have convinced themselves that Teo is everything he's cracked up to be.

There's pretty strong (overwhelming) evidence that backs up his estimated top-40 draft position.

What I am trying to say is that all of those awards really mean nothing in the pros.

Of course not. What they mean, though, is that he's overwhelmingly one of the top linebackers in this draft class. I'll grant you that previous success does not guarantee future success if you'll grant that there's a greater chance a player with Te'o's resume will be a solid NFL starter than someone without his stats/awards. What the awards prove is his accomplishments, skill in relation to all other LBs in the country and what players, peers and the media think about his ability.

All of those intangibles are going to amount to a hill of beans if Teo can't cover the deep middle of the field or effectively track shifty and athletic slot WR's and TE's. They won't.

I don't think people are missing that point. But good instincts/awareness/technique can compensate to some degree for super speed. And, again, it takes more than phenomenal athleticism to be successful in the NFL.

Anyway, let the chips fall where they may, but in my view Teo is a middle-round prospect and until I see him in the pros proving me wrong in that assessment I'm not going to change my mind on that.

It's just such an interesting take because it's so contrary to what his college resume/game tape indicates. Again, if the Vikes take him, let's hope he can prove you wrong.