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 Not Another Te'o Post 
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Post Not Another Te'o Post
Oh…but it is.

In fear of it being drowned out in the other Te'o post, I decided to post a new one. And really, I want this to be addressed. I need comforting! :D

I have a few questions. And I’m asking you guys because a lot of you seem to be very into college football and the draft prospects.

Is Manti Te’o as good as you guys are pretending?

If drafted…is he going to be an instant impact player?


And most importantly…

Is he “loved” and talked about so much because of where he played rather than his actual play and individual ability?

The reason I ask is: I don’t want this guy. Admittedly, I don’t watch much college football. I watch my team (Nebraska) as much as I can, and occasionally I’ll watch Iowa or Minnesota. Sometimes I watch “big games”, but overall, I’m not big on college sports. With that being said, I did watch that *one game* that most Te’o supporters want to forget about, and I saw a lot of Te’o highlights. I wasn’t impressed.

Then all of the sudden the Catfish thing happened and everyone is obsessed with him. I understand that he had a lot of supporters before that, but he’s pretty much all you heard about for weeks. I started looking more into him because of this nonsense and because (like two lol) people on the Vikings.com Message Board mentioned possibly drafting him this April. I was even less impressed at this point. And I was told (what some of you guys say) “that one game (and the Catfish thing) doesn’t take away from all he has done in his college career.”

Fair enough.

But, I still don’t want this guy. As a matter of fact, I already know my phone is going to be blowing up with people picking on me about this pick if we get him. As I said previously, I’ll be attending the Vikings Draft Party. I must be the only one on here—or one of the very few—that is actually going. I decided that I don’t want to openly pout in front of everyone if we take him—since it’s a realistic possibility that we might—so I decided to yet again look up highlights for this guy. I just wanted to mentally prepare myself so to speak. Nope. Didn’t work. Still not impressed.

I watched how many of this guy’s “highlight videos”—ya know, his supposed “best of” stuff—and I’m still left wondering this: So what? Yeah? And…? That’s it…? What’s all the fuss about?

I do NOT understand what is “so special” about this guy. To me, it seems as if a lot of the Te’o talk is simply because he was on a good team, was a good role player, went to a big school, etc. rather than his individual abilities and talents. As much as this guy is talked about, I would expect him to be a SPECTACULAR football player—some amazing, talented beast of an athlete. I don’t see it. I see a role player. I feel like he is a tad bit overrated. Out of the couple videos of “highlights” that I saw, I was impressed with maybe a couple—and I do just mean two or three—plays from him as an individual. A lot of the things he did were expected. I would've been more surprised if he hadn’t made those plays than I was excited that he did. If he had missed on some of those “best of” plays—and he would have been on the Vikings—I would have been screaming at my TV! The point is: I don’t see it. I’m wondering what people DO see in this guy that “puts him above the rest”??!?! He has pretty stats and college awards? Fine. Tell me what he brings as an INDIVIDUAL to this football team, a lot of sexy fantasy fake girlfriends?!?! I'm gonna need more than that.

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Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:51 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
MelanieMFunk wrote:
Is Manti Te’o as good as you guys are pretending?


I'm not sure how to answer that question. Who are you referring to and what are they saying (or "pretending")? I don't know if he's good as whatever you feel you're seeing/hearing but as a college player, he was definitely good. He was a highly-recruited player coming into college and he exceeded expectations, playing smart, instinctive football and providing leadership on a team that ended up surpassing expectations.

Quote:
If drafted…is he going to be an instant impact player?


There is absolutely no way to know but he has a chance to become an impact player. Even if he does, it may not happen immediately. He should be a solid player even as a rookie. However, like all rookies, I'd expect him to make some rookie mistakes.

Quote:
And most importantly…

Is he “loved” and talked about so much because of where he played rather than his actual play and individual ability?


It's tough to say. For every Notre Dame lover out there, there's probably a "hater", if not 2. I think he was talked about so much because he was the key player on a team that unexpectedly went undefeated and made it into the national championship game. Notre Dame's success was keyed by their defense and Te'o was their defensive leader so when you put all of that together, where he played probably factored into the hype but that was partly because he was a key factor in that big name school's resurgence, which was a huge story.

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The reason I ask is: I don’t want this guy. Admittedly, I don’t watch much college football. I watch my team (Nebraska) as much as I can, and occasionally I’ll watch Iowa or Minnesota. Sometimes I watch “big games”, but overall, I’m not big on college sports. With that being said, I did watch that *one game* that most Te’o supporters want to forget about, and I saw a lot of Te’o highlights. I wasn’t impressed.


Understandable. He wasn't impressive in that game.

Quote:
But, I still don’t want this guy. As a matter of fact, I already know my phone is going to be blowing up with people picking on me about this pick if we get him. As I said previously, I’ll be attending the Vikings Draft Party. I must be the only one on here—or one of the very few—that is actually going. I decided that I don’t want to openly pout in front of everyone if we take him—since it’s a realistic possibility that we might—so I decided to yet again look up highlights for this guy. I just wanted to mentally prepare myself so to speak. Nope. Didn’t work. Still not impressed.

I watched how many of this guy’s “highlight videos”—ya know, his supposed “best of” stuff—and I’m still left wondering this: So what? Yeah? And…? That’s it…? What’s all the fuss about?


Have you watched highlight videos of the other MLBs in the draft? What are you looking for in the videos? What would impress you?

Quote:
I do NOT understand what is “so special” about this guy. To me, it seems as if a lot of the Te’o talk is simply because he was on a good team, was a good role player, went to a big school, etc. rather than his individual abilities and talents.


He was more than a good role-player. As I said, he was the leader of their defense and he made a lot of big plays for them.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind and you certainly aren't alone in your views but if you want to know what Te'o would/should be able to bring to the Vikings, I'd suggest simply reading his draft profiles. They can certainly articulate his strengths and weaknesses better than most of us can. Here are a few links and a quote from Scott Wright's profile of Te'o:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/ ... id=2539277

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1697293

http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingR ... ti-Teo.php

Quote:
Strengths:
• Good size with room on frame to bulk up further
• Fundamentally sound tackler and explosive hitter
• Stout in the box and can fill gaps against the run
• Aggressive with great range and flies to the action
• Strong and powerful to take on and shed blockers
• Nice balance and does good job of staying on feet
• Outstanding instincts and has a nose for the ball
• Able to read and react quickly with a burst to close
• Intelligent and is like an extra coach on the field
• Competitive, hard working and a respected leader
• Durable with a ton of high-quality experience
• Offers both schematic and positional versatility

Weaknesses:
• Isn't overly athletic with just average timed speed
• Can be too aggressive and over run tackles at times
• Struggles in space and can be exploited in coverage
• May be naive and has lived a relatively sheltered life
• Might initially create some off-the-field distractions

Injury History:
• Underwent knee surgery following 2010 season
• Minor knicks but never missed significant action

Notes:
A four-year starter for the Fighting Irish --- Became the most decorated college football player in history after winning the Dick Butkus Award (nation’s top linebacker), Bronko Nagurski Trophy (top defender), Walter Camp Award (player of the year), Lombardi Trophy (lineman or linebacker), Chuck Bednarik Award (top defender) and Maxwell Award (top player) while also finishing second in the Heisman Trophy voting as a senior --- Named 2nd Team All-American in 2011 and 1st Team in 2012 --- Was a very highly-regarded prep recruit who attended the same high school in Hawaii as President Barack Obama --- Was the victim of a highly-publicized and cruel hoax in which a disturbed fan pretended to be a woman named "Lennay Kekua", who Te'o developed a long-term relationship with via the phone and internet --- Became a Tim Tebow-esque source of fascination for the national media when the "Catfishing" scandal broke --- Was more of a thumper early in college career but shed weight prior to senior campaign and became considerably more effective in coverage and space --- Could project to either the middle or outside in a 4-3 or inside in a 3-4 --- Possesses elite intangibles and plays faster in pads than workout numbers would indicate --- May not be a Hall of Famer but the type of player and team leader you can plug into the starting lineup immediately and not have to worry about for a decade --- Not particularly flashy but just a good football player and is one of the safest prospects in the Class of 2013.


Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:20 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
Mothman wrote:
Have you watched highlight videos of the other MLBs in the draft? What are you looking for in the videos? What would impress you?


Admittedly, I haven't. I'm scared to now. If Te'o is top two, I'm scared to even look at the rest. As far as what would impress me, let me say what I DID like about Te'o. It seems as if he made a couple really good plays on the ball (the two or three plays I was actually impressed with), and he seems to be a crowd pleaser. I mean, he seems to get pumped up and wants to get the crowd into it. That's cool. That'll work QUITE well at the Dome! His ball skills, well, on those plays, he had really good concentration and made some really nice plays on the ball. Really nice. Some of those interceptions were RIGHT to him (not impressive at all) and some were really great catches. He gets props for those.

As far as what I didn't like--and thought from day one before everyone else realized he was slow after the combine--was he is freakin' slow. The FIRST time I saw this guy I thought "it looks like he's running in slow-mo out there!" I don't know. I feel like he's over-hyped because of where he played and not necessarily who he is or what skills he has. I feel like if he had similar stats at a smaller school, he wouldn't be discussed half as much. That's my concern. Is he really that good, or do people WANT him to be good because he played at Notre Dame?

As far as what WOULD impress me--someone fast, hungry, angry. lol. I guess when I think MLB, I think of big, beefy "I'm looking to take your head off" kind of guys. Also, someone who is fast enough to play the run and the pass. I can just see people BURNING right by this guy in my head. He might end up being a solid NFL player, and he might not, but I still think he is overrated. I can't blame him for that though, can I? :)

I don't want him; however, I will support him if he's on the team. That's just how I roll. I'll pout for a few, but you'll see me cheering for him on Sundays. As I said previously, I don't think there is a guy coming out of the draft who is going to be working harder than this guy. That is his MAJOR plus.

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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
MelanieMFunk wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Have you watched highlight videos of the other MLBs in the draft? What are you looking for in the videos? What would impress you?


Admittedly, I haven't. I'm scared to now. If Te'o is top two, I'm scared to even look at the rest. As far as what would impress me, let me say what I DID like about Te'o. It seems as if he made a couple really good plays on the ball (the two or three plays I was actually impressed with), and he seems to be a crowd pleaser. I mean, he seems to get pumped up and wants to get the crowd into it. That's cool. That'll work QUITE well at the Dome! His ball skills, well, on those plays, he had really good concentration and made some really nice plays on the ball. Really nice. Some of those interceptions were RIGHT to him (not impressive at all) and some were really great catches. He gets props for those.

As far as what I didn't like--and thought from day one before everyone else realized he was slow after the combine--was he is freakin' slow. The FIRST time I saw this guy I thought "it's looking like he's running in slow-mo out there!" I don't know. I feel like he's over-hyped because of where he played and not necessarily who he is or what skills he has. I feel like if he had similar stats at a smaller school, he wouldn't be discussed half as much. That's my concern. Is he really that good, or do people WANT him to be good because he played at Notre Dame?


I don't particularly like or dislike Notre Dame so I have no stake in where he played. I think he's good and I don't see him as particularly slow but everybody perceives things differently. What impresses me most about his game are are his diagnostic skills, closing speed and ability finish. He reads and reacts extremely well and he also anticipates plays. Instincts like that are hard to teach. I also like his knack for coming up with big plays and big stops when needed.

Quote:
I don't want him; however, I will support him if he's on the team. That's just how I roll. I'll pout for a few, but you'll see me cheering for him on Sundays. As I said previously, I don't think there is a guy coming out of the draft who is going to be working harder than this guy. That is his MAJOR plus.


That... and don't underestimate his ability to inspire teammates. If he can bring that to the pros, it will make a difference and it's not a quality every LB has to offer.

I understand your doubts and I'm not going to try to convince you to like the guy. I have some doubts about him too, even though I've gradually come to the conclusion that I want the Vikes to draft him. Suffice to say that I don't think he's all hype. He earned a lot of the attention he received by being a good football player. The Vikes obviously need an MLB and I think he may the best one this draft has to offer. Other fans around here have other preferences but like you, I'll support whoever they draft and hope that player ends up being a star for the Vikes.


Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:54 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
As far as him being a "leader" and being able to "inspire"--I don't really see that either. I just don't think he has the personality for it. For the fans? Sure. The players? Eh. I also don't believe he is all that intelligent or mentally tough--for obvious reasons. To be a leader of all of those beefcakes in the locker room, I think you have to have a stronger self-image than what Te'o does--especially after that Catfish drama. To me, he seems soft, shy, quiet, etc. A tad bit feminine? Not that there's anything wrong with that. lol. I just think to be a "leader" of an NFL defense--he should be more aggressive. He seems kinda sweet, though. Not "sweet" like that. I just mean he seems like a real nice guy. He's obviously extremely naive and gullable. He's just something else. Period. But, as I said, I'll support him. I'm a huge fan of the show "Catfish" and I'll be a fan of our own real-life victim of it. :) If he does get drafted by us, I can't wait to be able to start talking about his play rather than his personality and drama! :D Come on NFL Draft! Let's do this!

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Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:13 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
For me, it comes down to this. Is Te'o a good football player? And the answer to me, has to be "absolutely." Now is he a Patrick Willis like prospect? I don't think so, but Patrick Willis, or the total package comes around once a decade it seems like.

I see Te'o as a boarder line probowler year in and year out. Think about Chad Greenway as I think they're kind of similar. Greenway is consistently decent and does his job but you wouldn't consider him like an all star or anything. He's not fast either but good instincts and technique can make up for that, you don't have to go as far if you're already in a good position to make a play! :P


Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:18 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
mondry wrote:
For me, it comes down to this. Is Te'o a good football player? And the answer to me, has to be "absolutely." Now is he a Patrick Willis like prospect? I don't think so, but Patrick Willis, or the total package comes around once a decade it seems like.

I see Te'o as a boarder line probowler year in and year out. Think about Chad Greenway as I think they're kind of similar. Greenway is consistently decent and does his job but you wouldn't consider him like an all star or anything. He's not fast either but good instincts and technique can make up for that, you don't have to go as far if you're already in a good position to make a play! :P


If he is as good as Greenway, I suppose I could tolerate him. :)

His good instincts had him believing a GUY was his sexy girlfriend for 2 freaking years. Don't talk to me about instincts. He sees things that aren't there. :) He hears a sexy woman's voice when it is a big, burly man on the other end. Need I continue? lol.

Alright, the guy is good at football, but sucks at life? lol :D

I'm only kidding. As I said, he seems like a nice guy. He just makes it too easy to make fun of him. I just think a lot of NFL locker rooms would eat him alive. Guys have already come out and said "our team would kill him." I don't know. I don't see the extra teasing and taunting from his teammates doing him any good. I kind of feel bad for him. Maybe he should come to the Vikes, I don't see our guys as being real a-holes, but ya never know!

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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
MelanieMFunk wrote:
As far as him being a "leader" and being able to "inspire"--I don't really see that either.


Maybe not but that's something that's not really in dispute. He was, unquestionably, the leader of the Notre Dame defense.

mondry wrote:
For me, it comes down to this. Is Te'o a good football player? And the answer to me, has to be "absolutely." Now is he a Patrick Willis like prospect? I don't think so, but Patrick Willis, or the total package comes around once a decade it seems like.

I see Te'o as a boarder line probowler year in and year out. Think about Chad Greenway as I think they're kind of similar. Greenway is consistently decent and does his job but you wouldn't consider him like an all star or anything. He's not fast either but good instincts and technique can make up for that, you don't have to go as far if you're already in a good position to make a play! :P


Well said!


Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:29 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
MelanieMFunk wrote:
His good instincts had him believing a GUY was his sexy girlfriend for 2 freaking years. Don't talk to me about instincts.


We're talking about football instincts. :)


Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:34 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
Mothman wrote:
MelanieMFunk wrote:
As far as him being a "leader" and being able to "inspire"--I don't really see that either.


Maybe not but that's something that's not really in dispute. He was, unquestionably, the leader of the Notre Dame defense.


That may be true, but being a leader among a bunch of same-age college students is a lot different than stepping foot in an NFL locker room and becoming a leader there, among grown men with big egos. :) Time will tell!

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Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:35 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
Mothman wrote:
MelanieMFunk wrote:
His good instincts had him believing a GUY was his sexy girlfriend for 2 freaking years. Don't talk to me about instincts.


We're talking about football instincts. :)


Point being: If you can't tell the difference between a man and a woman after two years, don't pretend to know much of anything. :D That is foolish. Especially, don't list instincts and intelligence as some of your attributes. Yeesh. C'mon maaaaaaan.

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Last edited by Funkytown on Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:36 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
MelanieMFunk wrote:
Mothman wrote:
MelanieMFunk wrote:
As far as him being a "leader" and being able to "inspire"--I don't really see that either.


Maybe not but that's something that's not really in dispute. He was, unquestionably, the leader of the Notre Dame defense.


That may be true, but being a leader among a bunch of same-age college students is a lot different than stepping foot in an NFL locker room and becoming a leader there, among grown men with big egos. :) Time will tell!


That's true, but you never know if any college player will be able to translate his strengths to the pro game until he's in the pros. All you can do is look at the qualities they've shown thus far.


Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:37 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
Quote:
That's true, but you never know if any college player will be able to translate his strengths to the pro game until he's in the pros. All you can do is look at the qualities they've shown thus far.


True. And here is my issue: Most people refer to him as being a "good football player." Awesome, but when it comes to all the hype he's getting, I'd expect him to be a "great football player." More importantly, a "great player" in college has a better chance of being a "good player" in the NFL. Get it? I want "great college players" with our first-round picks because they have a better chance of translating into good or great players in the NFL. Let's save the "good players" for after the first round. :) After the combine, some of the experts slowly started backing away from him. Some of the hype went away. Glad they are more realistic now, but that is a bit bothersome.

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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
MelanieMFunk wrote:
Quote:
That's true, but you never know if any college player will be able to translate his strengths to the pro game until he's in the pros. All you can do is look at the qualities they've shown thus far.


True. And here is my issue: Most people refer to him as being a "good football player." Awesome, but when it comes to all the hype he's getting, I'd expect him to be a "great football player."


In college, he was a great football player. That's why he received the awards, accolades and hype in the first place.

Quote:
More importantly, a "great player" in college has a better chance of being a "good player" in the NFL. Get it? I want "great college players" with our first-round picks because they have a better chance of translating into good or great players in the NFL. Let's save the "good players" for after the first round. :) After the combine, some of the experts slowly started backing away from him. Some of the hype went away. Glad they are more realistic now, but that is a bit bothersome.


That happens a lot with well-known or heavily-hyped players. They get scrutinized and analyzed to death in the months leading up to the draft and their flaws get magnified. A similar dynamic occurs with with players that have great athletic attributes but who weren't necessarily great players. people start worrying about 1/10 of a second differences in 40 times, weight room reps, etc. and forget that performances are what really count most.

It will all come out in the wash, as the saying goes...


Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:03 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
If that is what "great" looks like, that is why I don't watch college ball. lol.

I watched his combine stuff live. I watched the whole thing. People referred to him as "good" from what I remember. :) Like I said, they were doing a lot of backtracking. They seemed "eh" after that. Kind of deflated I'll say. Oh well. I don't have to like him unless he's a Viking--and I won't until then. :)

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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
All I have to say is that it sounds like your expectations of him were a little hard, and you may have been expecting something unrealistic while watching him. Kind of like when you hear nothing but great things about a movie you haven't seen for weeks, then you go see it yourself and are severely underwhelmed because your expectations could never be matched.

Manti Te'o not an out of this worldly god-like figure. He is a very solid and intelligent football player. If you are expecting an incredible showcase of athleticism, then you're bound to be let down, cause that's not what he is. But if your looking for a sound football player, who will fill his role on a defense and bring leadership and a spark when needed to a defense, then he's the kind of player you'd want to have.

Ignore the hype and ignore the media attention. That's all I can really say. Look at him as a player and compare him to the highlight reels of other top LB prospects and then make your own judgements. The problem with the media attention that he's received is that it works on both aspects of the spectrum and has turned him into this polarizing figure. For awhile there were some who loved the kid and praised him far beyond what he truly deserved and then when that hype and praise started to come down to a more realistic level, people have seemed to take it too far, and now they view him as much lesser football player than he truly deserves.

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Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:33 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
And as far as personality goes, I think your judging him based off interviews and other things where he's been put in a very difficult place. He's a humble and soft spoken kid in his regular life, no doubt. But many players have a very distinctly different off field personality from their on field personality, and think Te'o fits that bill. You can see his demeanor on the football field, the way he carries himself the way he guides and responds to other players. Everything I've seen from his "football" personality exudes leadership qualities.

If want to get a small glimpse into how he'll handle himself and handle the "harshness" of the players around him (with the Catfish scandal) I suggest you look for the show Game Changers on NFL Network. If you don't have the channel, I'm sure you could find it online somewhere. He showed the exact demeanor that he always showed on the field when they got him into drills on the show. At one point, Tyler Eifert was running routes against him and they said something about imaginary routes or movements or something along those lines. Can't remember the exact thing they were talking about, but the word imaginary was used in reference to something on the football field, and Te'o out of the blue in a very joking manner said something along the lines of "enough of this imaginary stuff". It might be just my opinion, but watching that was simply a glimpse into how he'll handle the teasing he'll face. Just laugh it off and play along. I really doubt he'll be "eaten alive" in an NFL locker room. As long as he takes it lightheartedly and proves himself on the football field, there won't be an issue.

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Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:48 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
I think it's a real possibility, but they did sign DJ Williams and James Anderson

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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
saint33 wrote:
Can't remember the exact thing they were talking about, but the word imaginary was used in reference to something on the football field, and Te'o out of the blue in a very joking manner said something along the lines of "enough of this imaginary stuff".


I saw that segment, I believe what he said is "I'm pretty good at imaginary stuff" and everyone got a good laugh out of it. I think he'll be capable of rolling with the punches.


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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
saint33 wrote:
All I have to say is that it sounds like your expectations of him were a little hard, and you may have been expecting something unrealistic while watching him. Kind of like when you hear nothing but great things about a movie you haven't seen for weeks, then you go see it yourself and are severely underwhelmed because your expectations could never be matched.

Manti Te'o not an out of this worldly god-like figure. He is a very solid and intelligent football player. If you are expecting an incredible showcase of athleticism, then you're bound to be let down, cause that's not what he is. But if your looking for a sound football player, who will fill his role on a defense and bring leadership and a spark when needed to a defense, then he's the kind of player you'd want to have.

Ignore the hype and ignore the media attention. That's all I can really say. Look at him as a player and compare him to the highlight reels of other top LB prospects and then make your own judgements. The problem with the media attention that he's received is that it works on both aspects of the spectrum and has turned him into this polarizing figure. For awhile there were some who loved the kid and praised him far beyond what he truly deserved and then when that hype and praise started to come down to a more realistic level, people have seemed to take it too far, and now they view him as much lesser football player than he truly deserves.


Very solid assessment and advice! Thank you! You made a lot of sense here.

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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
I still don't see how Teo is being talked about as a 1st round prospect. In fact, I can't recall a pro prospect where such a major part of his "positives" are non-football attributes. People who like Teo seem to like him almost as much for his "intangibles" as anything he actually brings to the football field. The problem I have with that is that those characteristics only get a guy so far. The comparison to Tim Tebow is still apt in the Teo case. Tebow was a similar college star. Underwhelming physical attributes and style, but intangibles and leadership off the charts. The dude had what could almost be called a cult-like following in college. Problem is, nobody cared about any of that in the pros. In the pros, Tebow just couldn't cut the mustard, intangibles or not.

And here is another cult of personality playing for a high-profile team with a lot of similar hype IMHO. Despite some real and obvious physical limitations, those who love Teo seem to love him no matter what. His leadership skills, his passion, etc., will somehow overcome his obvious lack of speed, inability to cover down the field, etc. If Toms, Dicks, and Joes like us can see the limitations just watching highlights, offensive coordinators are going to active gameplan to target those limitations. They're going to force Teo to cover their fast, shifty slot receivers, or worse, their bigger, more athletic tight ends. They're going to target him, and when they do, all of this hype around Teo is going to evaporate like snow in Minnesota in May.

I really don't have a problem with the Vikings drafting Teo. My issue is using a high pick to draft a guy who I see as a 2-down backer at *best*. If Spielman does that I will have serious doubts about his and his staff's ability to judge *talent* and be objective about it. They had a really solid draft last year and Spielman badly needs a repeat this year. I appreciate that the Vikings want character players, and I appreciate that Teo appears to be a character player, but he's not a 1st round talent. I don't like him in the 2nd round either and would accept him in the 3rd (I wouldn't like it, but I would accept it).


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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
I will be amazed if Teo makes it out of the 1st round. Either the Bears or Vikings will draft him and I hope that it is the Vikings that make that pick. The usual naysayers will do their usual ####" and complaining but Teo will be another Norte Dame standout fixture on the team just as Rudolph, Sullivan and Smith have been :v):

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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
VikingLord wrote:
I still don't see how Teo is being talked about as a 1st round prospect. In fact, I can't recall a pro prospect where such a major part of his "positives" are non-football attributes. People who like Teo seem to like him almost as much for his "intangibles" as anything he actually brings to the football field. The problem I have with that is that those characteristics only get a guy so far. The comparison to Tim Tebow is still apt in the Teo case. Tebow was a similar college star. Underwhelming physical attributes and style, but intangibles and leadership off the charts. The dude had what could almost be called a cult-like following in college. Problem is, nobody cared about any of that in the pros. In the pros, Tebow just couldn't cut the mustard, intangibles or not.

And here is another cult of personality playing for a high-profile team with a lot of similar hype IMHO. Despite some real and obvious physical limitations, those who love Teo seem to love him no matter what. His leadership skills, his passion, etc., will somehow overcome his obvious lack of speed, inability to cover down the field, etc. If Toms, Dicks, and Joes like us can see the limitations just watching highlights, offensive coordinators are going to active gameplan to target those limitations. They're going to force Teo to cover their fast, shifty slot receivers, or worse, their bigger, more athletic tight ends. They're going to target him, and when they do, all of this hype around Teo is going to evaporate like snow in Minnesota in May.

I really don't have a problem with the Vikings drafting Teo. My issue is using a high pick to draft a guy who I see as a 2-down backer at *best*. If Spielman does that I will have serious doubts about his and his staff's ability to judge *talent* and be objective about it. They had a really solid draft last year and Spielman badly needs a repeat this year. I appreciate that the Vikings want character players, and I appreciate that Teo appears to be a character player, but he's not a 1st round talent. I don't like him in the 2nd round either and would accept him in the 3rd (I wouldn't like it, but I would accept it).



I think you are far to caught up in the media attention and the athleticism, and you're not acknowledging Te'o as a football player. That's where your Tebow comparison is so far off the mark. Tebow was a player who had an unorthodox style of play for his position and lacks the most key aspect of his position, however was able to succeed and excel at the college level because the systems that are run and are successful in college are vastly different than those in the NFL. Manti Te'o is not an unorthodox MLB. He does not lack the most basic abilities that a middle linebacker must have. In fact, if anything, Te'o excels in the most important aspect of a linebacker's job and that's reading and reacting.

I don't understand where your comparison comes from. His athleticism is not exceptional, it is average for the position. Football is not a game of athleticism as much as it is a game of intelligence. Te'o may not be an exceptional athlete, but he is not inferior athlete either. He's easily athletic enough to be a 3 down linebacker, there are many of them in the league. Brandon Spikes ran a 5.00 flat forty time and is a very successful linebacker for the Patriots. Te'o's 10 and 20 yard times were some of the best at the position. This is not a kid who is a liability physically, he's just not an elite physical specimen.

But what he lacks in athleticism he makes up for in intelligence and instinct. He reads plays better then any other LB in college football. He trusts his eyes better then the other LBs, and he pursues the football exceptionally. He is not a strong in man to man coverage, but he does understands zone concepts and knows where to be and can get to those spots on the field. And his instincts in coverage have improved, he has learned to read the QB in coverage and make plays around the ball. It's why he interested 7 passes this past year as apposed to 0 the year before. Like any other draft pick around where we pick, he comes with concerns. He is not a perfect prospect by any means, but he's a damn good football. Intangibles or no intangibles, it's true that he's a good football player. When you add in the intangibles, he's a very attractive prospect. Intangibles are not imaginary, they very real things as well, it's intangibles that allows an average athlete, with a decent arm who gets drafted in the 6th round become one of the greatest QBs of all time.

And when we're talking about intangibles, well just watch this video

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-t ... ntangibles


Again this is only a piece of the puzzle, I am not saying that this kid should be a 1st round pick because he has intangibles. I'm saying he should be a first round pick because he a very strong MLB prospect, who also happens to be a great leader and made those around him better at Notre Dame.

And I cannot express enough times that he is nothing like Tim Tebow, he is not a player who severely lacks the skills it takes to be successful at his position.

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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
VikingLord wrote:
really don't have a problem with the Vikings drafting Teo. My issue is using a high pick to draft a guy who I see as a 2-down backer at *best*. If Spielman does that I will have serious doubts about his and his staff's ability to judge *talent* and be objective about it.


It seems pretty clear that you have those doubts already. :) You've expressed them numerous times.

The Te'o/Tebow comparisons remain strained at best.


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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
VikingLord wrote:
I still don't see how Teo is being talked about as a 1st round prospect. In fact, I can't recall a pro prospect where such a major part of his "positives" are non-football attributes. People who like Teo seem to like him almost as much for his "intangibles" as anything he actually brings to the football field. The problem I have with that is that those characteristics only get a guy so far. The comparison to Tim Tebow is still apt in the Teo case. Tebow was a similar college star. Underwhelming physical attributes and style, but intangibles and leadership off the charts. The dude had what could almost be called a cult-like following in college. Problem is, nobody cared about any of that in the pros. In the pros, Tebow just couldn't cut the mustard, intangibles or not.

And here is another cult of personality playing for a high-profile team with a lot of similar hype IMHO. Despite some real and obvious physical limitations, those who love Teo seem to love him no matter what. His leadership skills, his passion, etc., will somehow overcome his obvious lack of speed, inability to cover down the field, etc. If Toms, Dicks, and Joes like us can see the limitations just watching highlights, offensive coordinators are going to active gameplan to target those limitations. They're going to force Teo to cover their fast, shifty slot receivers, or worse, their bigger, more athletic tight ends. They're going to target him, and when they do, all of this hype around Teo is going to evaporate like snow in Minnesota in May.

I really don't have a problem with the Vikings drafting Teo. My issue is using a high pick to draft a guy who I see as a 2-down backer at *best*. If Spielman does that I will have serious doubts about his and his staff's ability to judge *talent* and be objective about it. They had a really solid draft last year and Spielman badly needs a repeat this year. I appreciate that the Vikings want character players, and I appreciate that Teo appears to be a character player, but he's not a 1st round talent. I don't like him in the 2nd round either and would accept him in the 3rd (I wouldn't like it, but I would accept it).


I think it comes down to this:

Heisman Trophy Runner-Up (2012)
Lott Trophy (2012)
Maxwell Award (2012)
Chuck Bednarik Award (2012)
Walter Camp Award (2012)
Bronko Nagurski Trophy (2012)
Butkus Award (2012)
Lombardi Award (2012)
Senior CLASS Award (2012)
ARA Sportsmanship Award (2012)[1]
Unanimous First Team All-American (2012)
Capital One First Team Academic All-American (2012)
2× FBS Independent Defensive Player of the Year (2011, 2012)

How in the world does a guy win all of these national (largely playing) awards voted on by peers, coaches and media and be a "third-round talent?" It doesn't make sense. The answer, I believe, is one of two possibilities:

#1: Your expectations for a first-round MLB are exceptionally high and nearly unattainable. Anything less than Patrick Willis is undeserving of a first-round selection. Perhaps you were taken in by the hype and are expecting Te'o to live up to the unrealistic expectations that came with that.
#2: This was a poor MLB draft class and Te'o was the best of that group.

I have a hard time believing a decorated player like Te'o, who has put up the kinds of stats he has put up over his career, is the level of player you see. Even if you discount a couple of his 7 interceptions this season to fluke tips, he still had 11 defended passes, which is solid to say the least and indicative of his coverage ability. For comparison, in 2012 Ogletree had 4 PDs and 1 INT. Arthur Brown had 4 PDs and 2 INTs.

You may very well be right and Te'o will be a colossal bust in the NFL. But his stats and accolades (combined with the consensus from experts around the country) say he's a late-first/early second round talent.

I also think it would be wise to temper your expectations when it comes to athleticism. As you know, outstanding athleticism doesn't guarantee NFL success. Conversely, all the intangibles in the world won't make an unathletic player successful. There's a balance that must be found. All of Ogletree's speed won't mean a lick if he's out of position or slow to react. And Te'o's great instincts won't be able to make up for not being able to physically get to the position his brain is telling him to go because he truly might not be "NFL fast." They could both flame out. They could both excel and be Hall of Famers. We just don't know. But the overwhelming evidence suggests that while both aren't Patrick Willis, they have the resume and tape to be selected in the top 40 or 50.

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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
dead_poet wrote:
VikingLord wrote:
I still don't see how Teo is being talked about as a 1st round prospect. In fact, I can't recall a pro prospect where such a major part of his "positives" are non-football attributes. People who like Teo seem to like him almost as much for his "intangibles" as anything he actually brings to the football field. The problem I have with that is that those characteristics only get a guy so far. The comparison to Tim Tebow is still apt in the Teo case. Tebow was a similar college star. Underwhelming physical attributes and style, but intangibles and leadership off the charts. The dude had what could almost be called a cult-like following in college. Problem is, nobody cared about any of that in the pros. In the pros, Tebow just couldn't cut the mustard, intangibles or not.

And here is another cult of personality playing for a high-profile team with a lot of similar hype IMHO. Despite some real and obvious physical limitations, those who love Teo seem to love him no matter what. His leadership skills, his passion, etc., will somehow overcome his obvious lack of speed, inability to cover down the field, etc. If Toms, Dicks, and Joes like us can see the limitations just watching highlights, offensive coordinators are going to active gameplan to target those limitations. They're going to force Teo to cover their fast, shifty slot receivers, or worse, their bigger, more athletic tight ends. They're going to target him, and when they do, all of this hype around Teo is going to evaporate like snow in Minnesota in May.

I really don't have a problem with the Vikings drafting Teo. My issue is using a high pick to draft a guy who I see as a 2-down backer at *best*. If Spielman does that I will have serious doubts about his and his staff's ability to judge *talent* and be objective about it. They had a really solid draft last year and Spielman badly needs a repeat this year. I appreciate that the Vikings want character players, and I appreciate that Teo appears to be a character player, but he's not a 1st round talent. I don't like him in the 2nd round either and would accept him in the 3rd (I wouldn't like it, but I would accept it).


I think it comes down to this:

Heisman Trophy Runner-Up (2012)
Lott Trophy (2012)
Maxwell Award (2012)
Chuck Bednarik Award (2012)
Walter Camp Award (2012)
Bronko Nagurski Trophy (2012)
Butkus Award (2012)
Lombardi Award (2012)
Senior CLASS Award (2012)
ARA Sportsmanship Award (2012)[1]
Unanimous First Team All-American (2012)
Capital One First Team Academic All-American (2012)
2× FBS Independent Defensive Player of the Year (2011, 2012)

How in the world does a guy win all of these national (largely playing) awards voted on by peers, coaches and media and be a "third-round talent?" It doesn't make sense. The answer, I believe, is one of two possibilities:

#1: Your expectations for a first-round MLB are exceptionally high and nearly unattainable. Anything less than Patrick Willis is undeserving of a first-round selection. Perhaps you were taken in by the hype and are expecting Te'o to live up to the unrealistic expectations that came with that.
#2: This was a poor MLB draft class and Te'o was the best of that group.

I have a hard time believing a decorated player like Te'o, who has put up the kinds of stats he has put up over his career, is the level of player you see. Even if you discount a couple of his 7 interceptions this season to fluke tips, he still had 11 defended passes, which is solid to say the least and indicative of his coverage ability. For comparison, in 2012 Ogletree had 4 PDs and 1 INT. Arthur Brown had 4 PDs and 2 INTs.

You may very well be right and Te'o will be a colossal bust in the NFL. But his stats and accolades (combined with the consensus from experts around the country) say he's a late-first/early second round talent.

I also think it would be wise to temper your expectations when it comes to athleticism. As you know, outstanding athleticism doesn't guarantee NFL success. Conversely, all the intangibles in the world won't make an unathletic player successful. There's a balance that must be found. All of Ogletree's speed won't mean a lick if he's out of position or slow to react. And Te'o's great instincts won't be able to make up for not being able to physically get to the position his brain is telling him to go because he truly might not be "NFL fast." They could both flame out. They could both excel and be Hall of Famers. We just don't know. But the overwhelming evidence suggests that while both aren't Patrick Willis, they have the resume and tape to be selected in the top 40 or 50.


Case closed. Put a bow tie on this thread.


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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
dead_poet wrote:
I also think it would be wise to temper your expectations when it comes to athleticism. As you know, outstanding athleticism doesn't guarantee NFL success. Conversely, all the intangibles in the world won't make an unathletic player successful. There's a balance that must be found. All of Ogletree's speed won't mean a lick if he's out of position or slow to react. And Te'o's great instincts won't be able to make up for not being able to physically get to the position his brain is telling him to go because he truly might not be "NFL fast." They could both flame out. They could both excel and be Hall of Famers. We just don't know. But the overwhelming evidence suggests that while both aren't Patrick Willis, they have the resume and tape to be selected in the top 40 or 50.


Your entire post was a great read. Thanks for that. I haven't had the opportunity to see much of Te'o and it's great to get some info from those of on the board that are better acquainted with his skills.

I'm quoting the above paragraph because it's such a valid point about the difference between college and pro ball. Great athleticism is always a plus for any player, but it's far more important in college ball. That's why we oftentimes see great athletes become college superstars but emerge as only average NFL players (or even become busts).

You're right. We don't know if Te'o and/or Ogletree will be big pro stars or disappointments. Still, I can guarantee that for both the ability to mentally comprehend the needs of the NFL game will be first and foremost the key to their outcomes. As for their physical skills, they are two different LBs in how they play but I think they both have already demonstrated that they are gifted athletes.


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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
So I post and say that Teo's stock is relatively high due to his intangibles and I get a bunch of responses that basically say his stock is high because of his intangibles. People who like Teo don't like the Tebow comparisons because, as we know, Tebow was *obviously* physically flawed in college for his spot while Teo is not so obviously physically flawed. Yet, due largely to hype, Tebow with all of his more obvious shortcomings was still taken with a 1st round pick by a team that couldn't wait to ship him and his great intangibles somewhere else not long after drafting him.

All I can say is there appears to be a lot of people on this board who have convinced themselves that Teo is everything he's cracked up to be. And I want to say, I am *NOT* predicting he is going to be a bust in the pros. I don't know. He may very well succeed. What I am trying to say is that all of those awards really mean nothing in the pros. All of those intangibles are going to amount to a hill of beans if Teo can't cover the deep middle of the field or effectively track shifty and athletic slot WR's and TE's. They won't.

Anyway, let the chips fall where they may, but in my view Teo is a middle-round prospect and until I see him in the pros proving me wrong in that assessment I'm not going to change my mind on that. He could in fact turn into one of the all-time great 2-down MLB's in league history.


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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
VikingLord wrote:
So I post and say that Teo's stock is relatively high due to his intangibles and I get a bunch of responses that basically say his stock is high because of his intangibles. People who like Teo don't like the Tebow comparisons because, as we know, Tebow was *obviously* physically flawed in college for his spot while Teo is not so obviously physically flawed. Yet, due largely to hype, Tebow with all of his more obvious shortcomings was still taken with a 1st round pick by a team that couldn't wait to ship him and his great intangibles somewhere else not long after drafting him.

All I can say is there appears to be a lot of people on this board who have convinced themselves that Teo is everything he's cracked up to be. And I want to say, I am *NOT* predicting he is going to be a bust in the pros. I don't know. He may very well succeed. What I am trying to say is that all of those awards really mean nothing in the pros. All of those intangibles are going to amount to a hill of beans if Teo can't cover the deep middle of the field or effectively track shifty and athletic slot WR's and TE's. They won't.

Anyway, let the chips fall where they may, but in my view Teo is a middle-round prospect and until I see him in the pros proving me wrong in that assessment I'm not going to change my mind on that. He could in fact turn into one of the all-time great 2-down MLB's in league history.


You are comparing Apples to Oranges in Tebow and Te'o Tebow cant throw the ball which is essential for a quarterback.

How many MLB's are frequently covering Slot WR's and TE's Would you rather have a MLB that can barely tackle? Is weak inside and gets pushed around? But can cover the middle of the field well? Or have someone who can do both things fairly well? 11 passes deflected is pretty good for a MLB also some of those interceptions are also because of his intangibles, and putting himself in the right situation at the right time, and hustling to the ball. So he wont turn into a great 3 down MLB in league history? Earlier in the year we were wishing that we would be able to snag Te'o now that we should be able to not so many people want him anymore.

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Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:41 pm
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Post Re: Not Another Te'o Post
VikingLord wrote:
All I can say is there appears to be a lot of people on this board who have convinced themselves that Teo is everything he's cracked up to be.


There's pretty strong (overwhelming) evidence that backs up his estimated top-40 draft position.

Quote:
What I am trying to say is that all of those awards really mean nothing in the pros.


Of course not. What they mean, though, is that he's overwhelmingly one of the top linebackers in this draft class. I'll grant you that previous success does not guarantee future success if you'll grant that there's a greater chance a player with Te'o's resume will be a solid NFL starter than someone without his stats/awards. What the awards prove is his accomplishments, skill in relation to all other LBs in the country and what players, peers and the media think about his ability.

Quote:
All of those intangibles are going to amount to a hill of beans if Teo can't cover the deep middle of the field or effectively track shifty and athletic slot WR's and TE's. They won't.


I don't think people are missing that point. But good instincts/awareness/technique can compensate to some degree for super speed. And, again, it takes more than phenomenal athleticism to be successful in the NFL.

Quote:
Anyway, let the chips fall where they may, but in my view Teo is a middle-round prospect and until I see him in the pros proving me wrong in that assessment I'm not going to change my mind on that.


It's just such an interesting take because it's so contrary to what his college resume/game tape indicates. Again, if the Vikes take him, let's hope he can prove you wrong.

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Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:57 pm
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