Championship Roster

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VikingLord
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingLord » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:50 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:27 pm
Everything is just speculation. I wonder why you think Rick only went with 2 years for Cousins instead of the typical 4 or 5 on the extension if he thinks Cousins could get the job done?
Because there are two sides to every deal?

Maybe Spielman wanted to sign Cousins to an extended deal but Cousins wouldn't go for it and the deal that was struck was the deal the two sides could agree to.

You're reading a lot of motivation into relatively little information.
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:27 pm
I agree, he didn't try hard enough if Fields is the next Cam Newton, a QB much better in his prime than Cousins will ever be. Lets hope Fields isn't that good or the next 5 or 6 seasons are going to be rough. It is the Bears though, so my guess is he will be more like 2021 Cam than the 2015 one.
If we both agree Newton in his prime was better than Cousins is now (which I do agree with), then I think we can both agree that Spielman blew it and should have gotten the deal done to move up and get Fields if Spielman shared that same assessment. That would tell me that Spielman either didn't share that same assessment of Fields, or he's content with Cousins as-is and isn't as focused on finding the QB hero to lead the team to the promised land.

Since neither of us know what the Vikings were thinking on draft day or before, all we have is the outcome and the fact that trade wasn't made.
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:27 pm
And now I wait for a certain someone to say Cam was never any good. Only because he doesn't like running QBs though, no other reason. :whistle:
I'm not going to say that. Newton was very good when he came into the league, and not just as a running QB.

I hope we can both agree that Mond wasn't a bad consolation prize from this last draft and the moves that Spielman made. He wasn't as hyped up as Fields, but all things considered I think he provides almost the same value prospect at the position, was overall more consistent in college (and consistently improved throughout his college career), and won't be under immediate pressure to rescue the franchise and take it back to relevance like Fields is likely to be under in Chicago.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:46 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:50 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:27 pm
Everything is just speculation. I wonder why you think Rick only went with 2 years for Cousins instead of the typical 4 or 5 on the extension if he thinks Cousins could get the job done?
Because there are two sides to every deal?

Maybe Spielman wanted to sign Cousins to an extended deal but Cousins wouldn't go for it and the deal that was struck was the deal the two sides could agree to.

You're reading a lot of motivation into relatively little information.
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:27 pm
I agree, he didn't try hard enough if Fields is the next Cam Newton, a QB much better in his prime than Cousins will ever be. Lets hope Fields isn't that good or the next 5 or 6 seasons are going to be rough. It is the Bears though, so my guess is he will be more like 2021 Cam than the 2015 one.
If we both agree Newton in his prime was better than Cousins is now (which I do agree with), then I think we can both agree that Spielman blew it and should have gotten the deal done to move up and get Fields if Spielman shared that same assessment. That would tell me that Spielman either didn't share that same assessment of Fields, or he's content with Cousins as-is and isn't as focused on finding the QB hero to lead the team to the promised land.

Since neither of us know what the Vikings were thinking on draft day or before, all we have is the outcome and the fact that trade wasn't made.
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:27 pm
And now I wait for a certain someone to say Cam was never any good. Only because he doesn't like running QBs though, no other reason. :whistle:
I'm not going to say that. Newton was very good when he came into the league, and not just as a running QB.

I hope we can both agree that Mond wasn't a bad consolation prize from this last draft and the moves that Spielman made. He wasn't as hyped up as Fields, but all things considered I think he provides almost the same value prospect at the position, was overall more consistent in college (and consistently improved throughout his college career), and won't be under immediate pressure to rescue the franchise and take it back to relevance like Fields is likely to be under in Chicago.
If Fields is the next Joe Montana he didn't try hard enough. If Fields is the next Tom Brady he didn't try hard enough. If Fields is the next Pat Mahomes he didn't try hard enough. This is pathetic. If we believed in Fields that much we would have tried harder. You can come up with speculation like that on every player in the draft. If Fields is Cam 2021 he wouldn't have been worth our 4th round pick much less our first plus additional assets. This kind of debating is worthless.

Whatever move Spielman doesn't do I can guarantee that Stump will find some way to present it in a light of being the mistake that will set us back 5 years.

Why doesn't Stump judge Newton the same way he judges Cousins. He's a failure. He didn't lead anybody to a title and after a couple good years he's completely washed up. Statistically Cousins is a much better QB. Pretty much the only thing that Newton has on Cousins is he's a better running back than Cousins and one magical year he brought the Panthers to the Super Bowl, but lost. He's a choker that can't win the big one. I don't actually believe all this (I believe some of it), but I'm trying out Stump logic .
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by CharVike » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:17 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:46 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:50 pm


Because there are two sides to every deal?

Maybe Spielman wanted to sign Cousins to an extended deal but Cousins wouldn't go for it and the deal that was struck was the deal the two sides could agree to.

You're reading a lot of motivation into relatively little information.



If we both agree Newton in his prime was better than Cousins is now (which I do agree with), then I think we can both agree that Spielman blew it and should have gotten the deal done to move up and get Fields if Spielman shared that same assessment. That would tell me that Spielman either didn't share that same assessment of Fields, or he's content with Cousins as-is and isn't as focused on finding the QB hero to lead the team to the promised land.

Since neither of us know what the Vikings were thinking on draft day or before, all we have is the outcome and the fact that trade wasn't made.



I'm not going to say that. Newton was very good when he came into the league, and not just as a running QB.

I hope we can both agree that Mond wasn't a bad consolation prize from this last draft and the moves that Spielman made. He wasn't as hyped up as Fields, but all things considered I think he provides almost the same value prospect at the position, was overall more consistent in college (and consistently improved throughout his college career), and won't be under immediate pressure to rescue the franchise and take it back to relevance like Fields is likely to be under in Chicago.
If Fields is the next Joe Montana he didn't try hard enough. If Fields is the next Tom Brady he didn't try hard enough. If Fields is the next Pat Mahomes he didn't try hard enough. This is pathetic. If we believed in Fields that much we would have tried harder. You can come up with speculation like that on every player in the draft. If Fields is Cam 2021 he wouldn't have been worth our 4th round pick much less our first plus additional assets. This kind of debating is worthless.

Whatever move Spielman doesn't do I can guarantee that Stump will find some way to present it in a light of being the mistake that will set us back 5 years.

Why doesn't Stump judge Newton the same way he judges Cousins. He's a failure. He didn't lead anybody to a title and after a couple good years he's completely washed up. Statistically Cousins is a much better QB. Pretty much the only thing that Newton has on Cousins is he's a better running back than Cousins and one magical year he brought the Panthers to the Super Bowl, but lost. He's a choker that can't win the big one. I don't actually believe all this (I believe some of it), but I'm trying out Stump logic .
Cam was never a top flight passer. He took the NFL by storm one year. Some on this board suggested we sign him. I said for what? Once Riveria showed no interest on a team with zero at QB that told the story. Bill B doesn't want him as his starter either. Why do you think he picked a guy round 1. Newton went through what all running QBs go through eventually and that's injuries. A guy running is great until they get knocked out making yardage. Culpepper is an example from our side. Any player running through a D will get knocked out eventually. RBs have short careers.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:24 am

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:50 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:27 pm
And now I wait for a certain someone to say Cam was never any good. Only because he doesn't like running QBs though, no other reason. :whistle:
I'm not going to say that. Newton was very good when he came into the league, and not just as a running QB.

I hope we can both agree that Mond wasn't a bad consolation prize from this last draft and the moves that Spielman made. He wasn't as hyped up as Fields, but all things considered I think he provides almost the same value prospect at the position, was overall more consistent in college (and consistently improved throughout his college career), and won't be under immediate pressure to rescue the franchise and take it back to relevance like Fields is likely to be under in Chicago.
I wasn't referring to you with that running QB comment.

Mond was a good option and hopefully works out. It is tough to compare Fields' tape to Mond's since most of Fields' games were so lopsided and he never faced any pressure or had to get past his first read, but Mond looks good in the games I have watched. I am hoping he has a great training camp, and the Vikings are able to move on with him on his rookie salary and Cousins and his massive contract traded for a 5th.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:29 am

CharVike wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:17 pm

Cam was never a top flight passer. He took the NFL by storm one year. Some on this board suggested we sign him. I said for what? Once Riveria showed no interest on a team with zero at QB that told the story. Bill B doesn't want him as his starter either. Why do you think he picked a guy round 1. Newton went through what all running QBs go through eventually and that's injuries. A guy running is great until they get knocked out making yardage. Culpepper is an example from our side. Any player running through a D will get knocked out eventually. RBs have short careers.
The fact Bill B picked up Cam as his starter last season and brought him back again this season tells the story.

People on here wanted Cam as a backup because they think that position matters. It doesn't, but he was an upgrade over Mannion.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:46 am

CharVike wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:17 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:46 pm

If Fields is the next Joe Montana he didn't try hard enough. If Fields is the next Tom Brady he didn't try hard enough. If Fields is the next Pat Mahomes he didn't try hard enough. This is pathetic. If we believed in Fields that much we would have tried harder. You can come up with speculation like that on every player in the draft. If Fields is Cam 2021 he wouldn't have been worth our 4th round pick much less our first plus additional assets. This kind of debating is worthless.

Whatever move Spielman doesn't do I can guarantee that Stump will find some way to present it in a light of being the mistake that will set us back 5 years.

Why doesn't Stump judge Newton the same way he judges Cousins. He's a failure. He didn't lead anybody to a title and after a couple good years he's completely washed up. Statistically Cousins is a much better QB. Pretty much the only thing that Newton has on Cousins is he's a better running back than Cousins and one magical year he brought the Panthers to the Super Bowl, but lost. He's a choker that can't win the big one. I don't actually believe all this (I believe some of it), but I'm trying out Stump logic .
Cam was never a top flight passer. He took the NFL by storm one year. Some on this board suggested we sign him. I said for what? Once Riveria showed no interest on a team with zero at QB that told the story. Bill B doesn't want him as his starter either. Why do you think he picked a guy round 1. Newton went through what all running QBs go through eventually and that's injuries. A guy running is great until they get knocked out making yardage. Culpepper is an example from our side. Any player running through a D will get knocked out eventually. RBs have short careers.
I think you are a bit too negative on Cam, but you make a good point. Cam's overpropensity to run I believe has led to a shortened career. If Mond ever takes over as the Vikings starter I hope he only runs when opportunity presents itself and doesn't make it a regular part of his game.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:02 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:46 am
CharVike wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:17 pm

Cam was never a top flight passer. He took the NFL by storm one year. Some on this board suggested we sign him. I said for what? Once Riveria showed no interest on a team with zero at QB that told the story. Bill B doesn't want him as his starter either. Why do you think he picked a guy round 1. Newton went through what all running QBs go through eventually and that's injuries. A guy running is great until they get knocked out making yardage. Culpepper is an example from our side. Any player running through a D will get knocked out eventually. RBs have short careers.
I think you are a bit too negative on Cam, but you make a good point. Cam's overpropensity to run I believe has led to a shortened career. If Mond ever takes over as the Vikings starter I hope he only runs when opportunity presents itself and doesn't make it a regular part of his game.
If you watch him in college, Mond is a scrambler in the mold of Mahomes, Watson and Rodgers. He isn't a running QB, just a mobile one.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:07 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:02 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:46 am

I think you are a bit too negative on Cam, but you make a good point. Cam's overpropensity to run I believe has led to a shortened career. If Mond ever takes over as the Vikings starter I hope he only runs when opportunity presents itself and doesn't make it a regular part of his game.
If you watch him in college, Mond is a scrambler in the mold of Mahomes, Watson and Rodgers. He isn't a running QB, just a mobile one.
Stump there is so little to read here that I caved and read your comments from the last two pages. Only a couple made me physically ill. Mond ran for 1600 yards in 4 seasons at A&M. He's not a run first QB but he runs a lot compared to say Cousins for example. My best guess is his running ways will be less in the NFL than in college so your take as I already knew is pretty accurate.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:08 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:46 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:03 pm

Yeah let's fault Cousins for not getting injured enough :lol: :lol: .
Cousins would sure be good if he only got injured more often. :wallbang:
You can't make this stuff up.
Very little of it had to do with injuries. There are only 10 starting QBs left in the NFL who were starting in 2016. Nice strawman though.
So you're not faulting him for staying healthy you're faulting him for maintaining a starting job. Sorry about my strawman. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:43 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:08 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:46 pm


Very little of it had to do with injuries. There are only 10 starting QBs left in the NFL who were starting in 2016. Nice strawman though.
So you're not faulting him for staying healthy you're faulting him for maintaining a starting job. Sorry about my strawman. :lol: :lol:
I pointed out facts, you stated those facts indicate I am making an argument I did not make. Hence: Strawman.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:44 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:07 pm

Only a couple made me physically ill.
Yikes. You should really think about taking a step back from this team if someone pointing out the reality of your team makes you ill.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:00 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:44 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:07 pm

Only a couple made me physically ill.
Yikes. You should really think about taking a step back from this team if someone pointing out the reality of your team makes you ill.
You don't point out reality. You're all negativity. You're just a hater and since you hate the Vikings so much you should think about taking a step back from this team.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:04 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:43 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:08 pm

So you're not faulting him for staying healthy you're faulting him for maintaining a starting job. Sorry about my strawman. :lol: :lol:
I pointed out facts, you stated those facts indicate I am making an argument I did not make. Hence: Strawman.
The way I see it you're saying he only put up good numbers because he started a lot of games. I'd say he put up good numbers because he started a lot of games. Negative way of looking at it or positive way of looking at it. I don't believe I misrepresented you in any way.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by Thaumaturgist » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:52 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:00 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:44 pm


Yikes. You should really think about taking a step back from this team if someone pointing out the reality of your team makes you ill.
You don't point out reality. You're all negativity. You're just a hater and since you hate the Vikings so much you should think about taking a step back from this team.
Stop calling out people please.... So sick of it!
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by CharVike » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:21 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:29 am
CharVike wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:17 pm

Cam was never a top flight passer. He took the NFL by storm one year. Some on this board suggested we sign him. I said for what? Once Riveria showed no interest on a team with zero at QB that told the story. Bill B doesn't want him as his starter either. Why do you think he picked a guy round 1. Newton went through what all running QBs go through eventually and that's injuries. A guy running is great until they get knocked out making yardage. Culpepper is an example from our side. Any player running through a D will get knocked out eventually. RBs have short careers.
The fact Bill B picked up Cam as his starter last season and brought him back again this season tells the story.

People on here wanted Cam as a backup because they think that position matters. It doesn't, but he was an upgrade over Mannion.
The story of that is Bill B wasn't prepared for old man Brady leaving or retiring. He didn't have a body in the hole who could play which is stupid when your guy is in his 40s. The Bucs took a guy this year just in case. The Packers already have their guy, a 1st round pick, in the hole for Rodgers old age break down. That could happen now or ?? years from now. Who knows. But they are prepared. Eventually Lamar will get put on the shelf with his running. It looks great now but there will come a time when it won't look to smart having him rush for 1000 yards every year. That's alot of extra wear and tear. Let your backs handle that part of the game. They get a pay check also. I highly doubt that crap brain OC the Chiefs have will bang Mahomes into the line on 3 and 1 again. The NFL will not allow guys to get many concussions. It looks better if they tell them to retire. On the surface it shows they care somewhat.
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