What is next?

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S197
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Re: What is next?

Post by S197 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:15 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:17 pm
VikingTom wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:37 am


I have had it in the back of my mind that a QB could be the 1st round selection. Did not want to make my first post advocating for a QB. Feared retribution would be quick on that one. :D Jones would be a good choice. I will be very interested in seeing how the early picks play out, invariably there is a surprise that slides down a bit.

Cousins is a good QB, but with the Vikings cap position it is bad timing having a high priced QB but inadequate OL protection. Even knowing the cap will bounce back over the next few years the Vikings are in a bit of a quandary in terms of available money. Not sure how Cousins would react to seeing his successor drafted, but unloading that big contract after 2022 season may be the only way the Vikings can position themselves to actually be competitive for a championship. Again, will be interesting to see how the draft plays out.

Vikings have four picks in the 4th, there should be plenty of talented WRs available. I would imagine the Vikings would like to improve their depth at WR. They resigned Beebe, but have little else.

I tend to feel the Vikings need to be creative with a couple more contracts and sign a more than serviceable OL. There remain some guys who should still be good, though not longer term solutions. The only other option in my mind is to package a few picks and try to move into the 2nd round. Spielman has not had much history of moving up. Which could mean he would trade back in the 1st round if he can acquire a 2nd round pick. Lots to speculate on, free agency and the draft are my personal favorite times of the year for football discussion.
I've posted about taking quarterbacks in the first round before, but I'll repeat it here. This has nothing to do with whether I think they should or shouldn't, but rather with the Vikings' position on it.

It's not going to happen. The Minnesota Vikings are not going to draft a QB at 14, or at any point in the first round for that matter.

The thought process is that if you're already paying a QB the kind of money you're paying Kirk Cousins, and Cousins is only 32, you're not looking to replace him. And you don't spend a first-round pick on a guy who's not going to play. That's what the Packers did last year with Jordan Love, and the move was not popular. But in their case, Aaron Rodgers was 37 years old. It makes sense to start thinking of life after Rodgers, even if the move pissed him off.

Fans think, "Cousins is signed through 2022, then he's gone." But that's not how Spielman and Company view the situation. They see Cousins as their franchise quarterback, a guy who's going to finish his career in purple. So they're not going to spend the draft capital on a guy they hope never sees the field.

So from a fan's perspective, the more prudent thing to do is to try and figure out who the Vikings will take. Many of us hope they'll draft a really good offensive lineman if available. But what if they don't? I feel like it could be anybody. I mean, what if DeVonta Smith or Jaylen Waddle falls to 14? Do we load up at receiver? What if Patrick Surtain II is available? Are we "set" at corner? Do we draft for need or BPA?

It's gonna be interesting.
Yup. If Spielman didn't draft ANYONE (forget 1st round, not in any round) for a broken, 41-year old Brett Favre, he's not going to do it now. That trend of course continued all the way to present day.
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Re: What is next?

Post by VikingLord » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:39 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:17 pm
It's not going to happen. The Minnesota Vikings are not going to draft a QB at 14, or at any point in the first round for that matter.
Never say "never". While I agree it is unlikely to happen, it depends on if a great prospect drops for some reason and the value is there.

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:17 pm
Fans think, "Cousins is signed through 2022, then he's gone." But that's not how Spielman and Company view the situation. They see Cousins as their franchise quarterback, a guy who's going to finish his career in purple. So they're not going to spend the draft capital on a guy they hope never sees the field.
That could be, but the short term nature of the contract extensions (and even the original contract) suggest that neither Cousins nor the Vikings are committed for the long term. I think the nature of the contract (fully guaranteed) coupled with the dollar amount of the contract suggest the Vikings view Cousins as a top-flight starting QB, but I think if both sides were convinced of a "franchise fit" the nature of the contract would be longer and more consistent with what other true franchise QBs have signed with their respective teams.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:17 pm
So from a fan's perspective, the more prudent thing to do is to try and figure out who the Vikings will take. Many of us hope they'll draft a really good offensive lineman if available. But what if they don't? I feel like it could be anybody. I mean, what if DeVonta Smith or Jaylen Waddle falls to 14? Do we load up at receiver? What if Patrick Surtain II is available? Are we "set" at corner? Do we draft for need or BPA?
While I don't see the Vikings going QB at 14 (mostly because the top QBs should all be off the board at that point), I could see Spielman possibly trading up into the 2nd to get one if he likes someone and/or even in the 3rd if someone slips a bit after the early gorging.

Guys who might slip a bit are Jamie Newman out of Georgia and I could see Kyle Trask slipping too. Maybe neither will last into the 3rd but both are intriguing prospects who could develop into quality starters as pros.
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Re: What is next?

Post by VikingLord » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:48 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:15 pm
Yup. If Spielman didn't draft ANYONE (forget 1st round, not in any round) for a broken, 41-year old Brett Favre, he's not going to do it now. That trend of course continued all the way to present day.
I doubt Spielman has something against drafting QBs - he is likely looking at value at the position where he's drafting rather than solely at the position.

The last time Spielman forced the QB position in the draft it didn't go well. I doubt he's eager to repeat that experience, Cousins or no Cousins.

It comes back to where he's drafting and the value at the position. This is actually a pretty flat draft for QBs. The fact that there are 5 guys being talked about going in the top 10 indicates that nobody beyond possibly Lawrence clearly stands out in this draft.

Would you trade up for a QB in this draft? If so, who and why?
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Re: What is next?

Post by RandyMoss84 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:55 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:46 pm
Here's an interesting situation.

Cordarrelle Patterson replied to a tweet Thursday morning from a fan urging him to come back to Minnesota. Patterson tagged the Vikings’ Twitter account and wrote “Hit my line,” to the team.

Now THAT would make me happy.
Not me, Zimmer would not know how to use Patterson wasting his talent
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Re: What is next?

Post by VikingTom » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:01 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:48 pm
S197 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:15 pm
Yup. If Spielman didn't draft ANYONE (forget 1st round, not in any round) for a broken, 41-year old Brett Favre, he's not going to do it now. That trend of course continued all the way to present day.
I doubt Spielman has something against drafting QBs - he is likely looking at value at the position where he's drafting rather than solely at the position.

The last time Spielman forced the QB position in the draft it didn't go well. I doubt he's eager to repeat that experience, Cousins or no Cousins.

It comes back to where he's drafting and the value at the position. This is actually a pretty flat draft for QBs. The fact that there are 5 guys being talked about going in the top 10 indicates that nobody beyond possibly Lawrence clearly stands out in this draft.

Would you trade up for a QB in this draft? If so, who and why?
I would not trade up, in fact I would not trade up for anyone in this draft. As for QB's would be about who fell. There are a couple guys who I think would be hard to pass up if they were there. Vikings hould in more realistic terms have a very good shot at a good DE, or OL.
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Re: What is next?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:09 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:55 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:46 pm
Here's an interesting situation.

Cordarrelle Patterson replied to a tweet Thursday morning from a fan urging him to come back to Minnesota. Patterson tagged the Vikings’ Twitter account and wrote “Hit my line,” to the team.

Now THAT would make me happy.
Not me, Zimmer would not know how to use Patterson wasting his talent
I'm not a Zimmer apologist, but let's be fair. I'm not sure how you can say Zimmer doesn't know how to use Patterson on offense when it doesn't appear that anybody really knows how to use him. Eight years in the league and four different teams, and he's still never been a starting WR. Is that Zimmer's fault? Not only that, Minnesota has actually gotten the most out of Patterson. He had 45 receptions in 2013 and 52 receptions in 2016, his two best seasons by a mile.

Just put him back there to return kickoffs. That's what he's good at, pretty much better than anyone in the NFL.
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Re: What is next?

Post by S197 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:48 pm
S197 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:15 pm
Yup. If Spielman didn't draft ANYONE (forget 1st round, not in any round) for a broken, 41-year old Brett Favre, he's not going to do it now. That trend of course continued all the way to present day.
I doubt Spielman has something against drafting QBs - he is likely looking at value at the position where he's drafting rather than solely at the position.

The last time Spielman forced the QB position in the draft it didn't go well. I doubt he's eager to repeat that experience, Cousins or no Cousins.

It comes back to where he's drafting and the value at the position. This is actually a pretty flat draft for QBs. The fact that there are 5 guys being talked about going in the top 10 indicates that nobody beyond possibly Lawrence clearly stands out in this draft.

Would you trade up for a QB in this draft? If so, who and why?
He hasn't found value in the NFL draft in over a decade? Mind you, the last time he drafted a QB when he had a starter in place, in any round outside the 7th/UDFA, was John David Booty in 2008. I find it hard to believe that the guy who frequently holds 10+ picks per year, is willing to convert a LB to FB, trade a 5th on a kicker only to cut him before game 1, and takes a chance on a TE from Germany with zero college football experience has found no value whatsoever in any QB. Just a few examples.

We have far too much experience with Rick Spielman drafts to know that it's actually quite the opposite. His body of work speaks for itself, he panic drafts when he has no options (Ponder, Bridgewater, Bradford ((not drafted but cost us picks)) and drafts no one as a contingency when his starter is in place. 12 years and probably almost as many QB's over that time period tells us this. His inability to field a decent O-line and his lack of planning at QB are his two largest and most glaring issues.

As to your question, under this hypothetical, am I the GM or just making a single pick? If Rick and Zimmer are still at the helm, and I'm just making a single pick, then no I wouldn't trade up because I've lost faith in their abilities. And I don't think we necessarily need to go QB very early, but I think we should look hard at grabbing someone in the mid-rounds.

Our team wear these shirts with the saying, "iron sharpens iron." Let me ask you this, who was the last player that was drafted to sharpen our starter at QB? I'm not talking about a Kyle Sloter, or Taylor Heinicke, or Nate Stanley. Legitimate competition. Don't you find it rather odd that it's never happened in his tenure as GM? Some UDFA from Northwestern Illinois Technical Institute isn't going to sharpen any iron. Neither is Josh Freeman, Matt Cassel, Shaun Hill, or Sean Mannion.
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Re: What is next?

Post by VikingLord » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:14 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm
As to your question, under this hypothetical, am I the GM or just making a single pick? If Rick and Zimmer are still at the helm, and I'm just making a single pick, then no I wouldn't trade up because I've lost faith in their abilities. And I don't think we necessarily need to go QB very early, but I think we should look hard at grabbing someone in the mid-rounds.

Our team wear these shirts with the saying, "iron sharpens iron." Let me ask you this, who was the last player that was drafted to sharpen our starter at QB? I'm not talking about a Kyle Sloter, or Taylor Heinicke, or Nate Stanley. Legitimate competition. Don't you find it rather odd that it's never happened in his tenure as GM? Some UDFA from Northwestern Illinois Technical Institute isn't going to sharpen any iron. Neither is Josh Freeman, Matt Cassel, Shaun Hill, or Sean Mannion.
I understand that you have lost faith in Spielman and would like to see him replaced, but my question wasn't really about that bigger issue. It is more about whether you think there is a truly special QB in this upcoming draft that you'd be willing to trade up to get. So I guess yeah, if you were the team's GM and inherited the team exactly as it stands today, and with the draft picks it has today, is there a QB in this draft that you feel strongly enough about to trade away either players or picks to move up to get and if so, who and why? What makes that QB stand out to you and gives you confidence he's the long-term answer?

As for your question, in my view Spielman has tried to tackle the very difficult problem of finding a franchise QB in multiple ways and so far has largely failed. To be fair to him, it's far from an easy job. He's taken Ponder and Bridgewater in the 1st. Ponder never should have been taken that high, and Bridgewater's career was severely impacted by his injury and then the fact that he doesn't bring anything special to the table. For Bradford, he was good but couldn't stay healthy. Spielman did manage to dig up Case Keenum and Zimmer got a great year out of him. And the jury is kind of out on Cousins, although I know many here have made their minds up on him already.

So no, Spielman probably hasn't found that iron yet at QB, at least not in the draft. But doing that is not trivial.

And thus my original question to you in this thread - who would you be willing to take a risk on at QB in this upcoming draft and why?
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Re: What is next?

Post by CharVike » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:31 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:48 pm


I doubt Spielman has something against drafting QBs - he is likely looking at value at the position where he's drafting rather than solely at the position.

The last time Spielman forced the QB position in the draft it didn't go well. I doubt he's eager to repeat that experience, Cousins or no Cousins.

It comes back to where he's drafting and the value at the position. This is actually a pretty flat draft for QBs. The fact that there are 5 guys being talked about going in the top 10 indicates that nobody beyond possibly Lawrence clearly stands out in this draft.

Would you trade up for a QB in this draft? If so, who and why?
He hasn't found value in the NFL draft in over a decade? Mind you, the last time he drafted a QB when he had a starter in place, in any round outside the 7th/UDFA, was John David Booty in 2008. I find it hard to believe that the guy who frequently holds 10+ picks per year, is willing to convert a LB to FB, trade a 5th on a kicker only to cut him before game 1, and takes a chance on a TE from Germany with zero college football experience has found no value whatsoever in any QB. Just a few examples.

We have far too much experience with Rick Spielman drafts to know that it's actually quite the opposite. His body of work speaks for itself, he panic drafts when he has no options (Ponder, Bridgewater, Bradford ((not drafted but cost us picks)) and drafts no one as a contingency when his starter is in place. 12 years and probably almost as many QB's over that time period tells us this. His inability to field a decent O-line and his lack of planning at QB are his two largest and most glaring issues.

As to your question, under this hypothetical, am I the GM or just making a single pick? If Rick and Zimmer are still at the helm, and I'm just making a single pick, then no I wouldn't trade up because I've lost faith in their abilities. And I don't think we necessarily need to go QB very early, but I think we should look hard at grabbing someone in the mid-rounds.

Our team wear these shirts with the saying, "iron sharpens iron." Let me ask you this, who was the last player that was drafted to sharpen our starter at QB? I'm not talking about a Kyle Sloter, or Taylor Heinicke, or Nate Stanley. Legitimate competition. Don't you find it rather odd that it's never happened in his tenure as GM? Some UDFA from Northwestern Illinois Technical Institute isn't going to sharpen any iron. Neither is Josh Freeman, Matt Cassel, Shaun Hill, or Sean Mannion.
Speilman has missed on every QB he has taken is true. He did make a very good FA signing IMO. No team out there has a contingency plan. Eagles had some guy for that and he looked like he never played the position. Bill B had nothing empty cupboard and signed a stiff. Speilman had Keenum as contingency who lead our team to the Champ game. I would give that a good mark. He also knew the guy was a stiff and told him to hit the bricks while another GM gave some coin. Bridgewater was picked at no 32 not exactly a great spot for a QB. I hated that pick. The guy is still playing but is a joke IMO but is making decent coin. Last year it looked like we might get pick 1 and most on this board including myself were happy to get the clemson kid. Draft position is a very important piece to the whole process. We are at 14 which isn't the best spot for a QB. That needs to be part of Speilmans evaluation also. I like Jones this year. But it won't be us that's for sure.
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Re: What is next?

Post by CharVike » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:15 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:31 pm
S197 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm


He hasn't found value in the NFL draft in over a decade? Mind you, the last time he drafted a QB when he had a starter in place, in any round outside the 7th/UDFA, was John David Booty in 2008. I find it hard to believe that the guy who frequently holds 10+ picks per year, is willing to convert a LB to FB, trade a 5th on a kicker only to cut him before game 1, and takes a chance on a TE from Germany with zero college football experience has found no value whatsoever in any QB. Just a few examples.

We have far too much experience with Rick Spielman drafts to know that it's actually quite the opposite. His body of work speaks for itself, he panic drafts when he has no options (Ponder, Bridgewater, Bradford ((not drafted but cost us picks)) and drafts no one as a contingency when his starter is in place. 12 years and probably almost as many QB's over that time period tells us this. His inability to field a decent O-line and his lack of planning at QB are his two largest and most glaring issues.

As to your question, under this hypothetical, am I the GM or just making a single pick? If Rick and Zimmer are still at the helm, and I'm just making a single pick, then no I wouldn't trade up because I've lost faith in their abilities. And I don't think we necessarily need to go QB very early, but I think we should look hard at grabbing someone in the mid-rounds.

Our team wear these shirts with the saying, "iron sharpens iron." Let me ask you this, who was the last player that was drafted to sharpen our starter at QB? I'm not talking about a Kyle Sloter, or Taylor Heinicke, or Nate Stanley. Legitimate competition. Don't you find it rather odd that it's never happened in his tenure as GM? Some UDFA from Northwestern Illinois Technical Institute isn't going to sharpen any iron. Neither is Josh Freeman, Matt Cassel, Shaun Hill, or Sean Mannion.
Speilman has missed on every QB he has taken is true. He did make a very good FA signing IMO. No team out there has a contingency plan. Eagles had some guy for that and he looked like he never played the position. Bill B had nothing empty cupboard and signed a stiff. Speilman had Keenum as contingency who lead our team to the Champ game. I would give that a good mark. He also knew the guy was a stiff and told him to hit the bricks while another GM gave some coin. Bridgewater was picked at no 32 not exactly a great spot for a QB. I hated that pick. The guy is still playing but is a joke IMO but is making decent coin. Last year it looked like we might get pick 1 and most on this board including myself were happy to get the clemson kid. Draft position is a very important piece to the whole process. We are at 14 which isn't the best spot for a QB. That needs to be part of Speilmans evaluation also. I like Jones this year. But it won't be us that's for sure.
This year the Saints contingency plan will go into effect. They did it better than most. They have two guys to choose from. We'll see how that turns out. It don't look good to me. But there HC seems to think he has it under control and is happy with what he has. Childress for us was banging his chest because he reached 5 rounds for T Jack. He thought he was a fantastic passer. That basically flushed x number of years down the toilet for us. Finding a QB is hard. The NFL as a whole is lacking at that position. Look at the Bears. Their current draft slot will make it difficult for them to get a top ranked QB. They will go into the season with two cast offs. How does a GM go into it like that. How is he even a pro?
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Re: What is next?

Post by VikingTom » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:54 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:14 pm
S197 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm
As to your question, under this hypothetical, am I the GM or just making a single pick? If Rick and Zimmer are still at the helm, and I'm just making a single pick, then no I wouldn't trade up because I've lost faith in their abilities. And I don't think we necessarily need to go QB very early, but I think we should look hard at grabbing someone in the mid-rounds.

Our team wear these shirts with the saying, "iron sharpens iron." Let me ask you this, who was the last player that was drafted to sharpen our starter at QB? I'm not talking about a Kyle Sloter, or Taylor Heinicke, or Nate Stanley. Legitimate competition. Don't you find it rather odd that it's never happened in his tenure as GM? Some UDFA from Northwestern Illinois Technical Institute isn't going to sharpen any iron. Neither is Josh Freeman, Matt Cassel, Shaun Hill, or Sean Mannion.
I understand that you have lost faith in Spielman and would like to see him replaced, but my question wasn't really about that bigger issue. It is more about whether you think there is a truly special QB in this upcoming draft that you'd be willing to trade up to get. So I guess yeah, if you were the team's GM and inherited the team exactly as it stands today, and with the draft picks it has today, is there a QB in this draft that you feel strongly enough about to trade away either players or picks to move up to get and if so, who and why? What makes that QB stand out to you and gives you confidence he's the long-term answer?

As for your question, in my view Spielman has tried to tackle the very difficult problem of finding a franchise QB in multiple ways and so far has largely failed. To be fair to him, it's far from an easy job. He's taken Ponder and Bridgewater in the 1st. Ponder never should have been taken that high, and Bridgewater's career was severely impacted by his injury and then the fact that he doesn't bring anything special to the table. For Bradford, he was good but couldn't stay healthy. Spielman did manage to dig up Case Keenum and Zimmer got a great year out of him. And the jury is kind of out on Cousins, although I know many here have made their minds up on him already.

So no, Spielman probably hasn't found that iron yet at QB, at least not in the draft. But doing that is not trivial.

And thus my original question to you in this thread - who would you be willing to take a risk on at QB in this upcoming draft and why?
The clear top QBs will go right away. The cost to trade up for them would be very high. As for others, no, I would sit tight. As already stated, I would not trade up for anyone. Vikings should have good starting caliber players available when they draft. If a QB did fall, might make for an interesting decision. Not to mention the possibility of some team wanting to move up.

From what has been said, I think everyone here appreciates that for good or bad, Zimmer & Spielman are locked in with Cousins. Their jobs likely depend on success now, they cannot afford a rebuild. I will modify this a bit to say good progress this year will give them one more year.

I see the Vikings have a bit more wiggle room under the cap, which does open up the possibility of taking a swing at one of the remaining OL FAs capable of improving the Vikings O line. That too could influence the direction of the draft. Yeah, yeah, BPA, but let's be honest. The view of who the BPA is depends to some degree on need.
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Re: What is next?

Post by S197 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:12 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:14 pm
As for your question, in my view Spielman has tried to tackle the very difficult problem of finding a franchise QB in multiple ways and so far has largely failed. To be fair to him, it's far from an easy job. He's taken Ponder and Bridgewater in the 1st. Ponder never should have been taken that high, and Bridgewater's career was severely impacted by his injury and then the fact that he doesn't bring anything special to the table. For Bradford, he was good but couldn't stay healthy. Spielman did manage to dig up Case Keenum and Zimmer got a great year out of him. And the jury is kind of out on Cousins, although I know many here have made their minds up on him already.
The reason he had to take Ponder is because he had no contingency for Favre. This was a guy who was done, if you'll recall it took 3 Vikings players flying to Louisiana to convince him to play another year. The writing was on the wall and Spielman sat on his hands. Favre retires and suddenly there's no other option but to reach for a guy like Ponder.

Doubling down on this mistake, Spielman once again has no contingency if Ponder doesn't work out. Other than an old McNabb throwing balls into the dirt and Josh Freeman throwing balls into the upper decks. Cassel was simply the resident journeyman that year. So by failing to plan, again, his hand was forced to trade up for Bridgewater.
So no, Spielman probably hasn't found that iron yet at QB, at least not in the draft. But doing that is not trivial.
It's not trivial but he also made it a lot harder on himself. The saying, "you miss 100% of the shots you never take" applies here. Spielman is often perceived as unlucky when in fact a lot of his "bad luck" is self-inflicted.
And thus my original question to you in this thread - who would you be willing to take a risk on at QB in this upcoming draft and why?
No, I don't think it's worth trading up for Lawrence or Wilson. The economics just doesn't make sense. You're going to pay Cousins $35M this year and $45M next year. That's all guaranteed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to mortgage the farm for a guy who will sit on the sidelines for two years. It makes less sense to pay a guy $45M to hold a clipboard.

What I would do is look for a mid-round pick that shows potential but needs time. I think Kellen Mond is one example. He has the arm, the quick release, and the mobility to extend plays. He's not a pure Lamar Jackson type runner but he's a guy that can use his legs if he needs to bail out of the pocket. He has the tools that you can't teach. But he's also streaky and inconsistent. His fundamentals like footwork isn't great but these are teachable things. Stuff you can learn by sitting behind a Cousins for two years. So that's what I would do. And I'm not saying Mond is the next franchise QB but that's how you need to approach the position. You should always have a guy in the bullpen you're trying to develop. Keenum was lightning in a bottle for a year but for every one of him there are the Frerotte, McNabb, Cassel, Hill, Mannion, etc. types who are nothing more than stopgap journeymen.

It's okay to have a journeyman holding your clipboard but you should also be looking at a young guy to develop. And that's the piece that Spielman has really neglected. QB is the most important position on the team so it's worthwhile to take more chances even if the success rate is low.
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Re: What is next?

Post by VikingLord » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:39 pm

VikingTom wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:54 pm
The clear top QBs will go right away. The cost to trade up for them would be very high. As for others, no, I would sit tight. As already stated, I would not trade up for anyone. Vikings should have good starting caliber players available when they draft. If a QB did fall, might make for an interesting decision. Not to mention the possibility of some team wanting to move up.
What about a trade up into the 2nd to grab a QB? Would you consider that, at what range of picks would you consider it, and who do you think might fall into that range at QB that might be worth that sort of gamble?

I agree with the rest of what you posted and hope Spielman is still looking at opportunities to improve the OL in FA before the draft.
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Re: What is next?

Post by VikingLord » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:46 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:12 pm
What I would do is look for a mid-round pick that shows potential but needs time. I think Kellen Mond is one example. He has the arm, the quick release, and the mobility to extend plays. He's not a pure Lamar Jackson type runner but he's a guy that can use his legs if he needs to bail out of the pocket. He has the tools that you can't teach. But he's also streaky and inconsistent. His fundamentals like footwork isn't great but these are teachable things. Stuff you can learn by sitting behind a Cousins for two years. So that's what I would do. And I'm not saying Mond is the next franchise QB but that's how you need to approach the position. You should always have a guy in the bullpen you're trying to develop. Keenum was lightning in a bottle for a year but for every one of him there are the Frerotte, McNabb, Cassel, Hill, Mannion, etc. types who are nothing more than stopgap journeymen.
Fair points on Spielman's actions at QB. He hasn't always helped himself and when some of his decisions at the position have gone against him he has been prone to reach to attempt a fix. He's paid the price for that without a doubt.

I like your thinking on finding that development depth QB. Specifically, Mond is an intriguing prospect and he is the sort of player who is likely to be there in the 4th when the Vikings have those 4 picks in that round. He's shown he can play at a high level, but he's been inconsistent. Maybe with good coaching and in the right system Mond could thrive, especially if he has time to sit and learn.

I would be very happy if the Vikings took Mond, even as early as one of their 3rd round picks. I think he'll last into the 4th though unless he has a great pro day (not sure if he's going to have a pro day).
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VikingTom
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Re: What is next?

Post by VikingTom » Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:01 am

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:39 pm
VikingTom wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:54 pm
The clear top QBs will go right away. The cost to trade up for them would be very high. As for others, no, I would sit tight. As already stated, I would not trade up for anyone. Vikings should have good starting caliber players available when they draft. If a QB did fall, might make for an interesting decision. Not to mention the possibility of some team wanting to move up.
What about a trade up into the 2nd to grab a QB? Would you consider that, at what range of picks would you consider it, and who do you think might fall into that range at QB that might be worth that sort of gamble?

I agree with the rest of what you posted and hope Spielman is still looking at opportunities to improve the OL in FA before the draft.
For starters I want to say the only way I see the Vikings acquiring a 2nd round pick is by trading down in the 1st. I doubt they would give up their extra 3rd & 4th round picks, just not Spielman's style. I would prefer they stand pat in the 1st. Given a likely run on QBs there should be a couple very good options available when they draft.

Just revisited QB options. In the next batch of QBs Kellon Mond is likely the best. Question is when would teams likely consider drafting him. I personally would be surprised if he was not taken in the 3rd round. Believe he is actually a 2nd round talent, but I think he will fall as teams will be set at QB after the 1st round. Supply and demand thing. Jamie Newman is interesting, and IMO more likely to be around in the 4th when the Vikings might feel they can afford to use a pick on a developmental QB. Read S197's last post, and agree the Vikings should look for a QB with talent, but needing to smooth out some rough edges as he spends a couple years learning and growing.
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