Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

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CharVike
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by CharVike » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:10 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:07 am
hmmmmm, I am a bit skeptical of this move

Pros:
1. He does provide valuable experience in an incredibly young secondary (similar to Newman years ago, and that worked out really well).
2. He can still play and they can use the help in the secondary
3. decreases chances the Vikings "pull another Hughes" and reach for a CB in the 1st

Cons:
1. Expensive - isn't the OL more of a glaring need?? The secondary could use the help, but the OL looks like a dumpster fire at this point
2. As others have stated, he is getting long in the tooth....he can still play but is on the decline - will his skills drop of even more next year?
3. Unlike Newman he's never played for Zimmer in the past, so not sure how they will interact. Newman knew what he was getting into. But how will a player of Peterson's experience and accolades handle Zimmer screaming at him that he's lining up 2cm out of position?

Overall, I think this move makes the Defense and the team better.....I just think they could have made greater team improvement if the $$ had been spent elsewhere. I don't know, maybe they love the OL they see in the draft???
I agree with you. There is nothing wrong with the signing but that cost is very high. Maybe they will pull another Rhodes also. There were few complaints when Hughes was picked. It hasn't worked out. People keep bringing up Newman as if he was a star on our team. I couldn't wait for them to unload the stiff. QBs wouldn't take the snap until they knew who he was covering. There was a lot of #### about him on this board. I was one of them.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:18 pm

Here are somethings to consider about PP "decline"
1. Zona moved to a man scheme almost exclusively.
2. We moved to a zone scheme ( perfect fit to help an aging vet)
3. The defense we are putting together looks like it will help all parties.
4. He might play safety
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:38 pm

CharVike wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:35 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:40 am


You’re best bet is to actually research dalvin Tomlinson. He has played all over the interior. Everyone is pegging him as a NT because that was his listed position.

And as for Peterson, since Arizona got their new coach, they’ve been playing a ton of cover 1. Zim plays primarily cover 2 which could be exactly what Peterson needs at this age. Just because he’s 31 does not mean the “gig is up”. Not sure where you’re even getting that from. Guys like Richard Sherman, Jonathan Joseph, Terrance Newman, and plenty more have still played very solid football. They aren’t a 25 year old shut down corner but they are still very good.
You have much more knowledge than me about the guy. I just go by what I read and stats. Most of what I read is that he's a great run stuffer. I never saw anything good about his pass rush ability. And maybe that's not what the signing was for. 31 is old to be a football player. Can some guys play longer sure. Most don't make it that far. Position matters also. I'm not disagreeing with signing the guys because that's there decision. I was hoping for something different that's all.
Let me offer some perspective.

First of all, Tomlinson is not just a nose tackle. He played 3-tech in his rookie year in 2017, and he played it last year for the Giants after they acquired Dexter Lawrence. Tomlinson ranked in the 82nd percentile against the run in 2020. He also knows how to finish plays, with one of the best run-stop percentages in the NFL. In other words, if he gets his hands on you, he gets you down.

As a pass rusher, Tomlinson ranked 35th among interior defenders. That's middle-of-the-pack-ish. But even at that, his PFF pass-rush grade last year was 74.7, which blows away anything the Vikings put on the field at DT.

PFF has indicated that his $11 million per year contract is right in line with his capabilities as a 3-tech. As a nose tackle, he might have commanded even more money.

The signing is important for Minnesota in this. A lot of people believe "oh, you gotta stop the pass in the modern NFL." And that's true to an extent. But if you can stop the run with your defensive line and linebackers, you don't have to load up the box on early downs. That allows you to defend the pass better. For obvious passing downs, you can always rotate in a better pass rusher. Nothing wrong with that.

As for Patrick Peterson, this move surprises me, and it excites me. We're talking about a Hall-of-Famer here. I don't care if he's not the shutdown corner he used to be. The man knows how to play.

Here's the thing. Patrick Peterson was one of the most freakishly gifted athletes ever to go through the combine, and the trail technique he employed in his early years took advantage of that athleticism and ability to close ground. The Cardinals continued to ask him to do those things, even though he wasn't really able, so his decline looked worse than it was. Even last year, they had him shadow the other team's best receiver. We're talking guys like Terry McLaurin, D.K. Metcalf and Stefon Diggs. They expected him to be the 2012 version of Peterson, and he couldn't do it.

Even with that, his overall rank is deceptive. The Cardinals had him play a lot of slot, where his decline would be exposed even more. When he played outside, he ranked 29th out of 84 qualified corners in yards per cover snaps, probably the most important stat for a corner. Still not top-3 like he used to be, but not horrible. Especially given that they asked him to play a lot of man. Peterson's biggest problem last year was penalties. He had the most in the NFL at his position, which was a huge contributor to his low PFF score. Not surprising, given how he was being asked to do things his body simply wouldn't let him do.

If Mike Zimmer uses him correctly, he has every chance of having a Xavier Rhodes-like renaissance with the Vikings. And I think the chances of that are very good. Zimmer is really good at coaching techniques into corners that are designed specifically to overcome physical limitations. As good as Rhodes was, and as fast as Waynes was, neither was particularly flexible. Zimmer still coached them to be very good corners. Along with that, Peterson is an incredibly smart player who is really good at reading offenses and route combos. He also has good instincts defending in the run game.

Plus, it's a one-year deal. I don't see Peterson being horrible, but if he is, then he's out of the Vikings' lives in 2022.

I have to say, I'm pleasantly surprised at what the Vikings have been able to do with their cap to become players in the free-agent market. They're still $6 million under the cap, but that's about what it'll take to sign the rookie class. So unless someone else restructures, they're probably done in free agency.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by MikethePurple » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:24 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:46 am
MikethePurple wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:47 pm


I'd agree. Great player in the past and sounds like it will most likely be 9 million with earning a possible extra 1 million if he's an All Pro (which I am pessimistic about). I'd agree with some folks that it's great to get a veteran in the cornerback room but for 9 million? Especially for a player who has been trending downward for 2 years? I would have much preferred someone cheaper who maybe is more of a stabilizing veteran presence. I'm more worried now about their ability to get any help on the O-line. Not to mention the fact that they have two nose tackles on defense now, I'm little confused and not really in agreement with how they are allocating very limited resources in this offseason.....
I would say Tomlinson is more of a hybrid 3 tech/nose. Michael Pierce even said, it reminds him of when he had Brandon Williams playing next to him in Baltimore. These guys are going to be extremely difficult to move and tough for interior OLs to scheme against. I really like the thought of it because I think Zim is going to get creative with them.

And man, if we can get hunters situation figured out, if we don’t have a top 3 run defense in the entire nfl (barring something crazy), I’d be absolutely shocked.

Between Hunter, Pierce, Tomlinson, kendricks and Barr, they are all near elite run defenders. Barr probably being the worst but still very solid. If you can sit here and say that out of those 5, Anthony Barr is your worst run defender, you have a hell of a front 5.
I don't disagree that the run defense is going to be massively improved and I've read the reports that Tomlinson has played across the line in various roles. I guess my concern is less about the fact that he's graded well against the run, which is great, but that his grades in a pass rushing capacity have been less encouraging. I'm not confident that the situation with Hunter is going to get figured out and while the Vikes may be set against the run, it leaves big question marks around the ability to rush the passer.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by S197 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:32 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:05 am
S197 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:01 am
Wonder if he'll move to safety. He has the size for it.
I'd guess he sticks at corner this year at least. Now if we draft a corner at 14 that all changes. :lol:
Honestly this may be the plan. He's not a #1 shutdown corner anymore but he can hang with the #2 WRs out there hopefully. Sounds like he's at least open to moving to safety as well.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by Spot & Stalk Vike » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:59 pm

He brings valuable knowledge and experience to a very young CB room and hopefully still has a few chops left in him.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by RandyMoss84 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:01 pm

Angels Wings wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:12 pm
I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, he is not the All-Pro he once was at Arizona, but on the other hand he is a veteran presence for a very young secondary on a one year deal.

Also, I still want Surtain at 14 if Jaelan Phillips is off the board...
Do Vikings really need another cornerback? Vikings drafted 3 cornerbacks last year
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by VikingLord » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:12 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:01 pm
Angels Wings wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:12 pm
I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, he is not the All-Pro he once was at Arizona, but on the other hand he is a veteran presence for a very young secondary on a one year deal.

Also, I still want Surtain at 14 if Jaelan Phillips is off the board...
Do Vikings really need another cornerback? Vikings drafted 3 cornerbacks last year
It's not a matter of "need" per se, but who is BPA at the pick. If that's clearly a CB who should have gone earlier, then as much as it might not make sense in terms of "need", Spielman should either take the CB or trade back because some other team will know that CB shouldn't still be there at #14 and will be willing to trade up to get that value out of the pick.

With that said, I think that situation is highly unlikely as I don't see a CB worth #14 still being on the board.

I think the most likely positions where obvious value will be there at #14 are DE, LB, WR, and OL. I say "OL" instead of a particular position because the better OL players in this draft have demonstrated multi-position abilities in college and could likely slot in at either tackle or guard or even center as pros.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by Maelstrom88 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:36 pm

I don't look at it like do we need a particular position now. I look at it like will we need that position 5 years from now and who will be the best player 5 years from now?

I'm more sold on Horn and Surtain being solid pros 5 years from now than anyone at that position on our roster. So yeah I'd still take them if they're left at 14. Farley could be the best out of them all but to me is less safe due to his injury history. To me passing on Horn or Surtain because of the guys we have now would age like passing on Winfield Jr. because we had Harris.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by RandyMoss84 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:23 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:36 pm
I don't look at it like do we need a particular position now. I look at it like will we need that position 5 years from now and who will be the best player 5 years from now?

I'm more sold on Horn and Surtain being solid pros 5 years from now than anyone at that position on our roster. So yeah I'd still take them if they're left at 14. Farley could be the best out of them all but to me is less safe due to his injury history. To me passing on Horn or Surtain because of the guys we have now would age like passing on Winfield Jr. because we had Harris.
I guess I could see Vikings drafting another cornerback if Hughes is gone
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by Maelstrom88 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:29 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:23 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:36 pm
I don't look at it like do we need a particular position now. I look at it like will we need that position 5 years from now and who will be the best player 5 years from now?

I'm more sold on Horn and Surtain being solid pros 5 years from now than anyone at that position on our roster. So yeah I'd still take them if they're left at 14. Farley could be the best out of them all but to me is less safe due to his injury history. To me passing on Horn or Surtain because of the guys we have now would age like passing on Winfield Jr. because we had Harris.
I guess I could see Vikings drafting another cornerback if Hughes is gone
Yeah I already pretty much see Hughes as a bust. I also think if you draft a corner at 14 you're probably moving Peterson to safety.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by VikingPaul73 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:03 pm

I wonder how many corners they will keep next year....6?

If 6 then it will be interesting .... dantzler , Peterson , Gladney are all locks. I would think Hughes and Hand are near locks as well, so that is 5 already

What about Boyd? He seems like a decent #6 but would probably get bounced if they want to upgrade . The PS rules were pretty liberal with COVID last year but Not sure on the PS rules for 2021.

But with Peterson and Hughes (assuming he makes final 53) there will be 2 holes to fill in 2022 so it would be nice to keep a guy like Boyd around for another year of development
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by S197 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:48 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:03 pm
I wonder how many corners they will keep next year....6?

If 6 then it will be interesting .... dantzler , Peterson , Gladney are all locks. I would think Hughes and Hand are near locks as well, so that is 5 already

What about Boyd? He seems like a decent #6 but would probably get bounced if they want to upgrade . The PS rules were pretty liberal with COVID last year but Not sure on the PS rules for 2021.

But with Peterson and Hughes (assuming he makes final 53) there will be 2 holes to fill in 2022 so it would be nice to keep a guy like Boyd around for another year of development
They usually keep 6 and Boyd is decent on special teams so I can see him making it absent someone getting drafted.

I wouldn't be surprised if they cut Hughes as well. I don't see a point in keeping him around another year, he's basically shown he's a bust.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by VikingPaul73 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:14 pm

I agree it wouldn’t SHOCK me if Hughes is cut

But in general teams do seem to be reluctant to cut 1st rounders on rookie contracts.
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Re: Vikings Sign Patrick Peterson

Post by S197 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:31 pm

He's supposed to be a good returner so bare minimum they could give him that spot. I don't think KJ Osborne is in any danger of getting poached if they put him on the PS as backup.
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