Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

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VikingPaul73
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by VikingPaul73 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:42 am

Well, I no longer think its fair to say Spielman has ignored the OL. The Vikings as an org just haven't been successful at developing a good OL. But look at the investments:

LT Reiff - big$ FA who was a former 1st Rd
OG- admittedly a big hole....for the sake of this thread, let's say Samia 4th rd pick
C- Bradbury 1st round pick
RG - Ezra 2nd round pick
RT - O'Neill 2nd round pick
also, Elf was a recent 3rd he just flamed out

without taking the time to compare to other teams, I'd guess they've invested more than league average in OL over the last 5 years or so. Not sure if the issue is talent evaluation or coaching, but it's one or the other because they have at least been attempting to fix it.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:59 am

CharVike wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:18 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:38 am


If you're really going to sit here and say that our interior will give any QB time, I honestly have no idea what to tell you. We currently have 0 true guards and a center that gets tossed around like a rag doll in pass protection. Tired of hearing the Cousins haters try and use a flawed statistic to try and prove that Kirk Cousins is the problem, not the OL. We've had solid tackle play for the most part. But the interior is disgusting in every way, shape and form so dont even go there.
These people can create any stat they feel like making. Our current OL is ranked as one of the worst in football and most people knock Speilman for building a crappy OL.But then it's pointed out that Kirk has the highest time to throw which basically means he stands there and waits all day with nothing around him. I don't see that. I see a guy that gets pressure. Just look at this starting 5 we have. There isn't one guy that's starting who will be remembered for anything good 10 years from now. Based on time to throw our OL is golden and Speilman has done a fantastic job and you could argue he's done the best based on Cousins having all day to throw. That's not close to the truth. I give Cousins credit for producing behind a sive OL. No QB produces with a crap OL or an OL that has a crap game. We see it in the playoffs every year. Rodgers gets pressure and boom that team is done. Rodgers is a HOFer with a great OL based on ranking. Our team has bigger problems than Cousins. The biggest is having a HOF QB in our division who is getting better with time. The second is zero pass rush. The third is a terrible OL. No GM can fix our biggest problem but is there a guy out there that can get a HOF type of pass rusher? A Page, White or LT. Basically a guy that can bring tremendous pressure regardless of the OL. We need that guy. I don't see him.
What people are creating a stat? This is literally someone with a stop watch getting the average time it takes from the QB taking a snap to when they throw the ball. It isn't any more complex than that. Cousins takes longer on average to throw than just about any pocket passer, which makes it more difficult for his Oline to block for him. That is a fact. Not an opinion, fact. That means he requires a better line than most other pocket passers so they can hold their blocks longer.

Not all pressure or sacks are due to a great pass rush or poor oline play. Just as big of a factor is good coverage to force a QB to hold the ball longer, and conversely a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly makes his oline play better. If Mahomes had found guys open downfield as quickly as Brady did, you wouldn't be hearing about TB's great pass rush in the SB, you would be hearing about Mahomes winning his second straight SB. Mahomes averaged 3.3 seconds in the pocket, so not scrambling around, while Brady found guys open on average in 2.2 seconds. THAT more than anything was the biggest difference in the SB.

If it were as simple as you say, and getting after the QB was the biggest factor to winning it all, we would see a bunch of Super Bowl winners with the best pass rush that year. Instead we see the 8th best pass rushing team, 30th best and 19th best winning it all. In fact, the best pass rushing team hasn't even made the SB the past 3 seasons. This season, the only top 10 pass rushing team to make it out of the divisional round was TB. On flip side of that, there hasn't been a top pass blocking oline in the SB since at least 2011.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by CharVike » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:48 am

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:42 am
Well, I no longer think its fair to say Spielman has ignored the OL. The Vikings as an org just haven't been successful at developing a good OL. But look at the investments:

LT Reiff - big$ FA who was a former 1st Rd
OG- admittedly a big hole....for the sake of this thread, let's say Samia 4th rd pick
C- Bradbury 1st round pick
RG - Ezra 2nd round pick
RT - O'Neill 2nd round pick
also, Elf was a recent 3rd he just flamed out

without taking the time to compare to other teams, I'd guess they've invested more than league average in OL over the last 5 years or so. Not sure if the issue is talent evaluation or coaching, but it's one or the other because they have at least been attempting to fix it.
Everyone sees ratings for OL and ours is considered to be in the bottom end. Most would agree OL is very important then how did we have the 4th ranked offense with a crappy OL. Some players are getting blocked along the way or we wouldn't move the ball. Cousins will never be mentioned as a HOF candidate so an upgrade would be great but it's not like he is a bottom end QB. Cook is fantastic but the OL is certainly giving some open spots for him otherwise he would be stuffed. Even Matti who is a 2nd stringer has some strong games. But I seen him miss a sure TD near the goal line when he didn't cut right and ran right into a mass of bodies. The Packers have a top flight OL and over the last two seasons they couldn't slow the pressure in the playoffs. They get blown up and their HOF QB doesn't play as well. I don't know how these rankings come about. NE has a very good OL but it didn't do a dam thing for the offense and now they will let this all world guard walk and they have a ton of CAP. They let Solder walk away also. How does NE keep getting these supposedly great OL players? Or is it the rankings that are wrong. We do need a LG and there are plenty in FA. Pick the stiff that fits the scheme best which appears to be movement based.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by S197 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:03 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:42 am
Well, I no longer think its fair to say Spielman has ignored the OL. The Vikings as an org just haven't been successful at developing a good OL. But look at the investments:

LT Reiff - big$ FA who was a former 1st Rd
OG- admittedly a big hole....for the sake of this thread, let's say Samia 4th rd pick
C- Bradbury 1st round pick
RG - Ezra 2nd round pick
RT - O'Neill 2nd round pick
also, Elf was a recent 3rd he just flamed out

without taking the time to compare to other teams, I'd guess they've invested more than league average in OL over the last 5 years or so. Not sure if the issue is talent evaluation or coaching, but it's one or the other because they have at least been attempting to fix it.
Spielman went from ignoring to flopping, still the same outcome. You can add Remmers at guard in the FA category. Beavers and Clemmings were both 4th round picks. We'll be adding Bradbury by end of next year.

I think Spielman is just plain bad at identifying talent on the OL. We've had so many coaches over the last 10 years it's an obvious scapegoat.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:35 pm

Bears are going to try to get Wilson, it would really suck if Bears get him but the division with Rodgers, Cousins, Goff, and Wilson would be fun :thumbsup:
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by VikingPaul73 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:49 pm

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2021/3/6/ ... f-contract

Well here we go on Reiff. They have about 10 days to get something worked out before FA. If I were Reiff I would probably tell Rick to pound sand but we will see what happens.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by CharVike » Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:33 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:49 pm
https://www.dailynorseman.com/2021/3/6/ ... f-contract

Well here we go on Reiff. They have about 10 days to get something worked out before FA. If I were Reiff I would probably tell Rick to pound sand but we will see what happens.
Reiff is a steady player and LT are not easy to find. He'll have a couple blowup games a season but that will happen with an average guy. Plus Rick gave him a million dollar incentive which he didn't need to because the incentive wasn't hit. Maybe they have a good relationship. You can send a bunch of kids to college with a million bucks. But if he leaves Clevland gets to move to LT which was going to happen anyway according to some. I'm not sure what Clevland's rating was for the LT position or if he was picked as a G only. Time will tell.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by S197 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:29 pm

The strategy should be to move on but you could potentially have a situation where the entire line is shuffled outside of Bradbury. That’s kinda scary considering how bad the line was last year.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by YikesVikes » Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:39 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:33 pm
VikingPaul73 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:49 pm
https://www.dailynorseman.com/2021/3/6/ ... f-contract

Well here we go on Reiff. They have about 10 days to get something worked out before FA. If I were Reiff I would probably tell Rick to pound sand but we will see what happens.
Reiff is a steady player and LT are not easy to find. He'll have a couple blowup games a season but that will happen with an average guy. Plus Rick gave him a million dollar incentive which he didn't need to because the incentive wasn't hit. Maybe they have a good relationship. You can send a bunch of kids to college with a million bucks. But if he leaves Clevland gets to move to LT which was going to happen anyway according to some. I'm not sure what Clevland's rating was for the LT position or if he was picked as a G only. Time will tell.
Imagine asking a player that performed like a top 10 player at his position to take a cut while paying him top 50 money... while pampering a guy that performs like a top 50 player at his position and paying him top 5 money.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by CharVike » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:06 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:39 pm
CharVike wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:33 pm

Reiff is a steady player and LT are not easy to find. He'll have a couple blowup games a season but that will happen with an average guy. Plus Rick gave him a million dollar incentive which he didn't need to because the incentive wasn't hit. Maybe they have a good relationship. You can send a bunch of kids to college with a million bucks. But if he leaves Clevland gets to move to LT which was going to happen anyway according to some. I'm not sure what Clevland's rating was for the LT position or if he was picked as a G only. Time will tell.
Imagine asking a player that performed like a top 10 player at his position to take a cut while paying him top 50 money... while pampering a guy that performs like a top 50 player at his position and paying him top 5 money.
The CAP creates problems. Reiff might be happy here and will help. He's a low profile mid west guy. Dak for Dallas wants to be paid right behind Mahomes. Very soon getting 50 million a year at QB will be chump change. Mahomes might be under paid before that contract kicks in. But I hope Reiff stays on board. If not get another cheaper body. That's life in the NFL.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by Spot & Stalk Vike » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:38 am

Just picked this snippet off of the interweb....

"Chicago is reportedly so desperate for a game-changer at quarterback that it’s willing to throw a “boatload of picks” at Seattle for Wilson."

Could be more traction to this than I initially thought. Question is how much collateral is Chicago willing to give up? They could end up with a really nice QB and not much else going down the road.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by Rhodes Closed » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Spot & Stalk Vike wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:38 am
Just picked this snippet off of the interweb....

"Chicago is reportedly so desperate for a game-changer at quarterback that it’s willing to throw a “boatload of picks” at Seattle for Wilson."

Could be more traction to this than I initially thought. Question is how much collateral is Chicago willing to give up? They could end up with a really nice QB and not much else going down the road.
Chicago is pretty much willing to give up its entire future for one or two years of success before they fall off a cliff anddie.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by Spot & Stalk Vike » Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:28 pm

From Cowherd on Twitter...
“I’m told the Chicago Bears are trying to make a move on Russell Wilson and trying to create a move that is so good Seattle can’t say no."
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by CharVike » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:24 am

Spot & Stalk Vike wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:28 pm
From Cowherd on Twitter...
“I’m told the Chicago Bears are trying to make a move on Russell Wilson and trying to create a move that is so good Seattle can’t say no."
That would be good for both Wilson and Seattle. That relationship is done. Be interesting to see Wilson and Rodgers go head to head. Bears have the better core team so they should be golden.
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Re: Russel Wilson Possibly Wants Out

Post by S197 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:47 pm

This would be disastrous. We can’t beat the Bears with Trubisky at the helm. GB is always a contender. A trade like this could very easily make us playing for 3rd place in the North year after year. The only positive being that might finally be enough for Zygi to realize Rick and Mike need to go.
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