Super Bowl

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Cliff
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by Cliff » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:55 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:40 pm
Thaumaturgist wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:25 pm
Again, I feel like this is being officiated one sided as well. Not that the Chiefs are playing superbly, and if they lose, it won't be the sole reason, but it never helps.
Seriously?

Kansas City is getting their a$$ cut in every phase of the game. Especially on the interior. Mahomes is running for his life every play. He’s in the 4th quarter and 15-for-32 for 130 yards.

This is total domination.
The calls at the end of the 1st half had a huge impact. That last drive by the Bucs especially. It was 3rd and 2 for a 32 yard penalty. Rather than 4th and 2 they're set up nicely to keep working. Without it at worst they go into the half 14-6 and if they manage to score it's 14-13 or 14-14 with a 2pt conversion. Then they get the ball back to start the second half.

It's an entirely different game without that penalty. Certainly Kansas would have a different game plan if they were closer than 21-6 to start the 2nd half.

The Bucs outplayed them but without that call it could have been a much closer game. It definitely mattered.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:28 am

StpViking wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:12 am
I don't know if there is any more mountains Tom Brady could scale. This season he finally put the belichick vs Brady to bed. From the day Drew Bledsoe went down to now, IT WAS ALWAYS BRADY!

The Bucs D did a great job against, Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes. However, I didn't see them do anything Zimmer's D couldn't do. The difference is having a truly God Tier QB on the other side of the ball.
I couldn't disagree more. There is a chasm between the Bucs D and Zimmer's D. They set a SB record for number of QB pressures, and they did it almost entirely by only rushing 4. Compare that to our numbers on the season for QB pressures and you have an illustration of the chasm I mentioned above. Brady got the MVP, but the entire Bucs D deserved it.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:48 am

Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:28 am
StpViking wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:12 am
I don't know if there is any more mountains Tom Brady could scale. This season he finally put the belichick vs Brady to bed. From the day Drew Bledsoe went down to now, IT WAS ALWAYS BRADY!

The Bucs D did a great job against, Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes. However, I didn't see them do anything Zimmer's D couldn't do. The difference is having a truly God Tier QB on the other side of the ball.
I couldn't disagree more. There is a chasm between the Bucs D and Zimmer's D. They set a SB record for number of QB pressures, and they did it almost entirely by only rushing 4. Compare that to our numbers on the season for QB pressures and you have an illustration of the chasm I mentioned above. Brady got the MVP, but the entire Bucs D deserved it.
Hunter, Joseph, Griffen Johnson/Robison set that record going against KC's backups too. This year's Dline makes them look like pro bowlers.

Brady played pretty much a flawless game and the Bucs execution on offense made KC a one dimensional passing team that needed to fight to keep up with TB. It is a prime example of the offense helping the defense and vice versa.

Another example of a great teams with a great QB winning the SB and the difference between last year missing out on the playoffs for the Bucs and winning the SB was Brady. They had the great team last year and went 8-8 with a high volume stat guy who turned the ball over too much. They went to Brady and he made everyone around him better and the team dominated its way to the SB.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:53 am

Cliff wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:55 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:40 pm

Seriously?

Kansas City is getting their a$$ cut in every phase of the game. Especially on the interior. Mahomes is running for his life every play. He’s in the 4th quarter and 15-for-32 for 130 yards.

This is total domination.
The calls at the end of the 1st half had a huge impact. That last drive by the Bucs especially. It was 3rd and 2 for a 32 yard penalty. Rather than 4th and 2 they're set up nicely to keep working. Without it at worst they go into the half 14-6 and if they manage to score it's 14-13 or 14-14 with a 2pt conversion. Then they get the ball back to start the second half.

It's an entirely different game without that penalty. Certainly Kansas would have a different game plan if they were closer than 21-6 to start the 2nd half.

The Bucs outplayed them but without that call it could have been a much closer game. It definitely mattered.
Defensive backs hold and grab when they're consistently getting beat. Chiefs DBs did it over and over throughout the game, and the refs called them on it. Kudos to the refs for not buying into the idea that they should somehow call the game differently because it's a Super Bowl.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:06 am

Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:28 am
StpViking wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:12 am
I don't know if there is any more mountains Tom Brady could scale. This season he finally put the belichick vs Brady to bed. From the day Drew Bledsoe went down to now, IT WAS ALWAYS BRADY!

The Bucs D did a great job against, Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes. However, I didn't see them do anything Zimmer's D couldn't do. The difference is having a truly God Tier QB on the other side of the ball.
I couldn't disagree more. There is a chasm between the Bucs D and Zimmer's D. They set a SB record for number of QB pressures, and they did it almost entirely by only rushing 4. Compare that to our numbers on the season for QB pressures and you have an illustration of the chasm I mentioned above. Brady got the MVP, but the entire Bucs D deserved it.
I'm gonna go back to the comments I made earlier in the thread.

When your starting left tackle is Mike Remmers, your O-line just isn't very good. Put that O-line against a good defensive line, and you're lucky if your quarterback gets out of the game alive. Tampa Bay took away Tyreek Hill by doubling him every play and harassing Mahomes with the rush, not allowing him to progress off of Hill. Instead of working the other receivers, they kept trying to go deep. Instead of working to move the chains and slowly climb out of the 21-9 halftime hole, Kansas City kept calling for big plays. Tampa not only beat them physically, but they out-coached them badly.

You could've given the MVP to the kicker for all it mattered.

After the lack of adjustments the Chiefs made, I'm not sure I want Eric Bieniemy for any coaching position on the Vikings.

And for the record, this year's Vikings defense might have given up 50 to Kansas City, even with their patchwork O-line.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:27 am

Cliff wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:55 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:40 pm

Seriously?

Kansas City is getting their a$$ cut in every phase of the game. Especially on the interior. Mahomes is running for his life every play. He’s in the 4th quarter and 15-for-32 for 130 yards.

This is total domination.
The calls at the end of the 1st half had a huge impact. That last drive by the Bucs especially. It was 3rd and 2 for a 32 yard penalty. Rather than 4th and 2 they're set up nicely to keep working. Without it at worst they go into the half 14-6 and if they manage to score it's 14-13 or 14-14 with a 2pt conversion. Then they get the ball back to start the second half.

It's an entirely different game without that penalty. Certainly Kansas would have a different game plan if they were closer than 21-6 to start the 2nd half.

The Bucs outplayed them but without that call it could have been a much closer game. It definitely mattered.
Was that the one that was an uncatchable deep shot and Evans fell down, possibly without getting touched? Hated that call.

There was another one where Evans almost tackled his defender, attempted to throw him to the ground and when the defender grabbed Evans to stop from going to the ground, a holding flag was thrown. A third questionable flag was a PI in the EZ where the ball was thrown 5 yards out of the EZ. Meanwhile TB's LBer was mugging Kelce the entire game and no call.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by chicagopurple » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:56 am

take home messages from this super bowl that hopefully Spielman is intelligent enough to understand:

The best QB in the world wont get you a super bowl without an good OL...period.
Your front four on DL are key

and those who think officiating was one sided...it wasnt....KC is one of the most penalized teams in the league, #4 this season I believe, and with the injuries in the secondary, they were grabbing and holding well past 5 yrds downfield all day....you just cant get away with that.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by Cliff » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:02 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:53 am
Cliff wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:55 am


The calls at the end of the 1st half had a huge impact. That last drive by the Bucs especially. It was 3rd and 2 for a 32 yard penalty. Rather than 4th and 2 they're set up nicely to keep working. Without it at worst they go into the half 14-6 and if they manage to score it's 14-13 or 14-14 with a 2pt conversion. Then they get the ball back to start the second half.

It's an entirely different game without that penalty. Certainly Kansas would have a different game plan if they were closer than 21-6 to start the 2nd half.

The Bucs outplayed them but without that call it could have been a much closer game. It definitely mattered.
Defensive backs hold and grab when they're consistently getting beat. Chiefs DBs did it over and over throughout the game, and the refs called them on it. Kudos to the refs for not buying into the idea that they should somehow call the game differently because it's a Super Bowl.
This is the call in question. Its clearly uncatchable and was a very big deal.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1358583859567341571
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by StpViking » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:31 am

Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:28 am
StpViking wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:12 am
I don't know if there is any more mountains Tom Brady could scale. This season he finally put the belichick vs Brady to bed. From the day Drew Bledsoe went down to now, IT WAS ALWAYS BRADY!

The Bucs D did a great job against, Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes. However, I didn't see them do anything Zimmer's D couldn't do. The difference is having a truly God Tier QB on the other side of the ball.
I couldn't disagree more. There is a chasm between the Bucs D and Zimmer's D. They set a SB record for number of QB pressures, and they did it almost entirely by only rushing 4. Compare that to our numbers on the season for QB pressures and you have an illustration of the chasm I mentioned above. Brady got the MVP, but the entire Bucs D deserved it.
You are talking about this year's D. I am talking about the best years Zimm's D had when Rhodes were closed, had Hunter, Griff, and Big Ole Linval in the middle. LBs were able to stay on the field. Even with that, they missed the SuperBowl because they did not have the God Tier QB that the Bucs have.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by RandyMoss84 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:51 am

Brady has 7 Superbowl rings, most by a quarterback and Patriots and Steelers franchises only have 6 Superbowl rings which is most in NFL, very impressive
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:55 am

StpViking wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:31 am
Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:28 am


I couldn't disagree more. There is a chasm between the Bucs D and Zimmer's D. They set a SB record for number of QB pressures, and they did it almost entirely by only rushing 4. Compare that to our numbers on the season for QB pressures and you have an illustration of the chasm I mentioned above. Brady got the MVP, but the entire Bucs D deserved it.
You are talking about this year's D. I am talking about the best years Zimm's D had when Rhodes were closed, had Hunter, Griff, and Big Ole Linval in the middle. LBs were able to stay on the field. Even with that, they missed the SuperBowl because they did not have the God Tier QB that the Bucs have.
Thanks for the clarification. That makes a lot more sense. I still don't think Zimm's D at its peak was ever as dominant as what we saw from the Bucs last night, especially in a big game. I wish they had shown up like that against the Eagles in the NFCCG.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by RandyMoss84 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:14 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:55 am
StpViking wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:31 am


You are talking about this year's D. I am talking about the best years Zimm's D had when Rhodes were closed, had Hunter, Griff, and Big Ole Linval in the middle. LBs were able to stay on the field. Even with that, they missed the SuperBowl because they did not have the God Tier QB that the Bucs have.
Thanks for the clarification. That makes a lot more sense. I still don't think Zimm's D at its peak was ever as dominant as what we saw from the Bucs last night, especially in a big game. I wish they had shown up like that against the Eagles in the NFCCG.
If Vikings did then Vikings would have become the first team to win the Superbowl in their home stadium but sadly it is too late now since Buccaneers became the first team to win the Superbowl in their home stadium last night
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:00 pm

Cliff wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:02 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:53 am

Defensive backs hold and grab when they're consistently getting beat. Chiefs DBs did it over and over throughout the game, and the refs called them on it. Kudos to the refs for not buying into the idea that they should somehow call the game differently because it's a Super Bowl.
This is the call in question. Its clearly uncatchable and was a very big deal.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1358583859567341571
Gotta disagree.

The ball was only uncatchable because the defender's feet tangled with Evans back upfield, and then he grabbed Evans' legs on the way down. Gene Steratore, the CBS ref expert said you have to call that, and I agree with him. You can't trip someone 10 yards before the end of the play and then claim the ball was uncatchable.

I would say that the one against Evans in the end zone was far more questionable. On that play, the linebacker clearly grabbed him around the waist, but the ball was 10 thrown feet over Evans' head. THAT one I agree was uncatchable. However, I'd say it was still a penalty -- just defensive holding, not interference.

If you watched closely -- and Tony Romo talked about this -- Kansas City's DBs grabbed A LOT all night long. They have all year. Most teams simply don't have the defensive firepower to stay with Mahomes and the offense, so it gets masked.

It's also funny how there doesn't seem to be much criticism of the refs for NOT calling fouls on Tampa Bay. Just for refusing letting Kansas City get away with mugging receivers. Could it be that playing clean football in the defensive backfield leads to fewer penalties?
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:04 pm

chicagopurple wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:56 am
take home messages from this super bowl that hopefully Spielman is intelligent enough to understand:

The best QB in the world wont get you a super bowl without an good OL...period.
Your front four on DL are key

and those who think officiating was one sided...it wasnt....KC is one of the most penalized teams in the league, #4 this season I believe, and with the injuries in the secondary, they were grabbing and holding well past 5 yrds downfield all day....you just cant get away with that.
Thank you. On all counts.

Their DBs grabbed on every cut. They'd get stemmed up and beat, so they'd grab. And as you said, they've been doing it all year. The Kansas City Chiefs getting called for penalties in the defensive backfield isn't new. It's just that teams like the Raiders, Chargers and Broncos didn't have the talent (or the defenses) to make them pay the way the Bucs did.
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Re: Super Bowl

Post by Spot & Stalk Vike » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:00 pm

Quick synapses on my part:

* The officiating was not stellar by any means but my impression was it didn't "decide" the outcome.
* The Bucs did out-play the Chiefs pretty much in every facet of the game
* It doesn't matter how talented your QB is. Without adequate pass protection even the gods will look mortal (please take note Viking brass and coaches) if your QB is being harassed in under 1.5 seconds of receiving the snap.

Gotta hand it to the Bucs, they took care of business and were ready for this game, the Chiefs looked like the Vikings for much of the game.....jmo.
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