Cousins Trade Rumors

[YikesVikes]

Cousins isn't the problem but his contract is a problem. He's simply not worth $45M a year and he needs a lot of pieces around him to function at a high level.

That's why I would entertain the trade. This whole cap doesn't matter is nonsense. We were literally a day away from cutting Reiff. Our starting corners were Hughes, Gladney and Dantzler. Ifeadi was our starting DE. We had to settle for a 2nd rate DT and #3 WR in free agency. We have ZERO depth at safety other than a failed Iloka, on his second go around. We had to keep Dozier and put our future tackle at guard.

We were plugging holes all over the place because of cap constraints. It's not just about acquisitions, retention is a big part too and we had a major exodus on defense. And it isn't going to get better from here. Especially if the cap goes down.

Where is the lie? Bryz has been outplayed twice by Kirks agent, Barrs agent, and Rudy's agent. I assume it's the rest of the FO wanting these guys so bad they are doing dumbshit to get them.

[vikeinmontana]

I don't think some of you understand how good Watson is.

Tell us how good he is. I'm open to learning something if there is objectively something to learn.

Watson's stats are marginally better than Cousins from what I've seen. He's a better runner for sure. The two aren't close there, but passing-wise, they look pretty close and Cousins is better in many categories.

In terms of the overall success of their teams, there too I'm not seeing anything that makes me think Watson is going to save the Vikings and lead them into a glorious future as he hasn't done that for the Texans.

And if you believe he hasn't done that for the Texans because the Texans have poor ownership/GM/coaching, I rest my point unless you think the Vikings have great ownership/GM/coaching and the only thing holding the Vikings back is their overpaid starting QB.

Without trying to come across as an ####; do you really need me to tell you why DeShaun Watson is better than Kirk Cousins?

For full disclosure, I’m not knocking Kirk. Haven’t been a guy thinking he’s our biggest issue. That’s moot. Anytime you can get a QB who’s easily top 5 in the league, you try and get that guy.

No one is saying football is a one man game. But it is WAY easier to mask your weaknesses as a team when you have an elite QB. You obviously still need pieces. If you didn’t, Rodgers would have way more than one ring. Green Bay has ruined that guys career but that’s another story. But in a way their #### show of handling him kind of backs up my thoughts. They are always in the mix despite that franchise refusing to bring him talent. They’ve wasted him. But at least they have the option because they have a complete stud at QB.

Like I said initially, maybe the disconnect here is really that people don’t think Watson is as good as a Rodgers, or Jackson or even Mahomes. I just happen to believe that he’s in the same tier and I think his stats back up that assumption. The dude is elite.

[StumpHunter]

Competitive? 9, 8 and 7 wins is competitive?

A 3 win talent team was in or in the hunt for playoffs and competitive in most games. They were a bad, poorly run, poorly coached team. He made them average by himself. He was the difference. Watson made a better team a little better than average and a bad team, a four winner. Don't get me wrong. All indications are that he is good. Generational game changer I haven't seen. Same argument you guys have been making about paying a good QB too much. You're going to pay him too much AND wreck your next 3 drafts.

A 3 win talent team? Based on what?

2015 and 2016 they had a good Oline, WRs, TE, okay RBs and below average, but not terrible scoring defense. 2017 you could argue was a 3 win team with a backup QB, but an average starting QB would win 7 games with a team of that caliber no problem, and in fact Alex Smith won 6 before getting hurt with that team the next year, while his backups won just 1 of the remaining games.

PFF had Washington as the 6th most talented team in 2016 in fact. He won 8 games with that squad. 8. He just doesn't elevate teams. Hasn't his entire career, and that is why you move on, because this team needs some elevating.

[StumpHunter]

You are absolutely right about Watson and I was thinking like a homer with Hunter and not wanting to part ways with him. Watson makes us better than Hunter does and two firsts and Hunter are worth upgrading the most important position in sports. I stand corrected.

I do disagree with your take on why you dump Cousins. Dumping him saves us a ton of cap to help rebuild a team that isn't good enough to compete for a SB. 45 million over 2 years and Case Keenum or Marcus Mariota or some other retread FA QB + a rookie QB makes this team better than Cousins does. If the Vikings can get a 1st out of the 9ers for him great, but I would be willing to give up a 3rd just to dump his contract.

You and this contract. The Vikings are a projected $12 million over the cap. Yet you have teams like the Saints who are roughly $112 over the cap (yes you read that correctly). Or the Eagles who are over by 50+ million. I dont understand why you somehow think all this "Cousins cash" is holding us back from signing all these big name FAs. Like when does this team ever overspend in FA? Whether they have boat loads of cap or in the negative, they build through the draft as they should. I already proved to you that your little fantasy scenario that you typed up a few weeks ago has 0 chance of being realistic or even remotely doable. For as much as you complain about his contract, he's yet to cost us much of anything player wise on this team or in terms of incoming FAs.

Your response to that post proved nothing more than that you don't understand basic NFL cap management.

Saying that there are teams worse off than ours doesn't change the fact that we are 12 million over and aren't a good team to begin with. The Vikings are 23rd in cap space and the only teams that didn't make the playoffs last year who are in the same boat as us either fired their GM (Houston, Detroit, Atlanta), just won a SB in 2017, but should have fired their GM anyway(Philly), or just got a new GM in 2018 who can't really be blamed for the cap situation he is in (LV). The Vikings are the only team who's GM got his team into cap hell with nothing to show for it and is still employed.

[chicagopurple]

EXACTLY!!!!!

[StpViking]

Cousins was brought in as the final piece that was going to give the Vikings franchise the first Super Bowl win. Obviously that didn't happen. It's time to let it go, Cousins was a mirage, like so many other QB free agent (Moon, Cunningham, Jeff George, Favre...ect).

Realistically, who's going to want to take on Cousin's contract? He would only be a space holder until the organization gets a true franchise Quarterback.

[J. Kapp 11]

What on earth over the past seven years has convinced you that this ship is headed anywhere other than 180 degrees opposite of where it needs to go?

They've been competitive over the last 7 years. Just not Superbowl competitive, although they came close in 2017. The years they've missed the playoffs, they've not missed by much. They are not a pending ship wreck.

1. We have a GM who values quantity of draft picks over quality. Y'all are going bonkers at the thought of losing 2-3 first-round draft picks. But look at all the first-round swings and misses that Spielman has had over the past 10 years. Guys like Christian Ponder, Matt Kalil, Cordarrelle Patterson, Shariff Floyd, Teddy Bridgewater, Trae Waynes, Laquon Treadwell, Mike Hughes and Garrett Bradbury. But boy, we've sure had plenty of picks in Rounds 5-7. Genius. The point here isn't that GMs always hit on first-round picks. All of them swing and miss at some point. But Deshaun Watson isn't the same as a first-round pick. He's already established himself as a top QB in the NFL. Y'all are acting like we get nothing in return.

How does Watson improve Spielman?

If Spielman is the problem, fix that problem. Getting a different QB doesn't address that problem.

2. We have a coach who is stuck in 1994. A coach who hangs his hat on defense, yet whose defenses continually collapse in big moments and big games. A coach who thinks his scheme is so brilliant that can plug anybody in and still have a Top-5 unit.

If the coach is the problem, fix that problem. Watson can't fix that problem any more than Cousins can.

3. We have a quarterback who, despite lots of nice volume statistics, is not a long-term answer. No than any of he other dozens of guys the Vikings have trotted out there since Fran Tarkenton retired.

Cousins and Watson are pretty close statistically as passers. Watson is a better runner and more inclined to run, but name me the last running QB who won a Superbowl. That's not a first-order contributor to success as a QB in the pros. It might cover up a shaky pass blocking offensive line or improve a team's apparent running stats, but given how few running QBs end up hoisting Lombardi Trophies, that attribute doesn't impress me much.

4. We make the playoffs one year, only to get blown out, then miss the playoffs the next. Do you know the last time we made the playoffs two years in a row was when Brad Childress was coaching this team?

Watson led his team to 4 wins last year, which implies two things:

1) Watson alone isn't enough to cover up a team's overall flaws no matter how good he may individually be
2) A team's overall flaws are far-and-away the biggest contributor to their overall success or lack thereof and not an individual player, even if he is a rock star QB

I think I can lay claim to being among the top two or three most optimistic guys on this board. But even I can see that this constant "slight course correction" is only good enough to get us back into the playoffs, where we ultimately meet our demise before reaching the big game. We get off course when we miss the playoffs. We "get back on course" by making the playoffs and getting blown out. I'm tired of it.

What you're describing is an apparent pattern. It's not a pattern based on anything objectively likely to repeat itself, but since it has repeated itself enough times, it seems logical to expect the pattern to continue in the future.

The winning formula is be a complete team with some depth, be fortunate with injuries during the season, and then get hot at the right time. That will put any team in the Superbowl conversation, and for many teams, that requires more course correction than course reversals.

If the Vikings want to become a complete team, then the areas to focus on are obvious, and QB isn't one of them right now. They have a QB who is good enough, but a team that is not. Fix the problems with other areas on the team, and then if there is a fatal issue at QB that will be more apparent.

And for that matter, what have we had for the past 15 years? Drastic improvement? Heck, even "Incremental improvement" would be a very generous description of what Spielman and Zimmer have done because I'm not sure it's true. Before Zimmer arrived, we made the playoffs three times in 6 years. Since Zimmer, it's three times in 7 years. How is that improvement?

If Zimmer is the problem, he's going to be a problem for Watson every bit as much as he is for Cousins.

If the coach is the issue, change the coach.

Kirk Cousins executes the plays that are called. But he's not a playmaker. Watson is.

I don't know if I agree with that. If you look at the stats for Watson and Cousins, they're pretty close other than the running stats. Cousins makes some plays too, and he might make more if Spielman puts a better OL in front of him.

Perfect. A year too late. Next year's QB draft is projected to be one of the worst in recent memory, and Deshaun Watson will be a Jet or a 49er or some other such crap. Yeah, let's just keep kicking the can down the road.

I mentioned a few mid-round QB prospects who the Vikings might have a reasonable shot at this year that might turn out to be pretty good pros, especially if they get some time to marinate behind a vet. Maybe instead of kicking the can down the road they just switch from Diet Coke to Coke and go ahead and take a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.

For me the bottom line is the Vikings have bigger issues than their QB, and going further, I just don't believe in the myth that the overall team is saved by a single guy. Even Brady needs a complete effort around him to succeed in Tampa, and Watson isn't enough to make the difference on a bad Houston team. Rodgers at home wasn't enough to best Tampa even though his defense got him the ball back multiple times.

Not Brady, nor Watson, nor Mahomes, nor Rodgers could overcome the Vikings inconsistent pass blocking and generally poor interior OL play. Unless that problem is fixed, having a "better" QB won't matter and the end result will be the same at best. None of those guys can generate a pass rush or limit the effectiveness of the opposing team's running game on 1st and 2nd down or get the opposing offense off the field. If that problem isn't fixed, who cares if your starting QB throws 5 more TDs or runs for 5 more TDs? The end result for the team is going to be largely the same.

Honestly, the Vikings just made a trade like the one many seem to hope will happen here. They just traded their 2nd round pick to the Jags for a pass rusher who didn't really materially change anything because the team's overall issues went far beyond what could be solved by that single player even if he met all expectations. Now they have neither their 2nd round pick nor that pass rusher. They got a 3rd back for him, and maybe fate will finally smile on them and they'll use that 3rd rounder to draft their franchise QB in this upcoming draft.

Two points.

First, I gave you a FIVE-STEP PLAN for fixing the Vikings. Not a single step of just getting Watson and suddenly expecting things to get better. Five steps, which include replacing Zimmer and Spielman. Put Watson on a Mike Zimmer ground-and-pound team, and he goes from elite to above average. Put Watson on a team that values 5 seventh-round draft choices over a single second-round draft choice, and he goes from elite to above average.

Yet there you are saying, "If the coach is the problem, change the coach, not the QB." THEY'RE ALL THE PROBLEM.

But I guess if 3 playoff teams in 7 years is good enough for you, compared to 3 playoff teams in 6 years under Childress and Frazier, then you're not going to see a problem.

Second, comparing the stats of Deshaun Watson and Kirk Cousins is exactly why advanced metrics were born. Everybody here knows that if you simply compare volume stats, Kirk stacks up well with just about anybody. For example, Cousins was only 53 yards behind Aaron Rodgers in passing yards this year. Are you honestly going to tell me that Kirk Cousins is in the same universe as Aaron Rodgers when it comes to QB play?

Context matters. WHEN you get your stats matters. HOW you get your stats matters. That's why ESPN came up with their own system for QBR, based on the expected-points model. The only reason I cited traditional stats with Watson was to show that he put those up with nothing around him. And because they're what most people understand.

Bottom line, Watson makes plays. I'm frankly surprised. You're just about the only person I've ever encountered who thinks Watson isn't a playmaker.

Wanna know why I want Deshaun Watson. THIS.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

A 3 win talent team was in or in the hunt for playoffs and competitive in most games. They were a bad, poorly run, poorly coached team. He made them average by himself. He was the difference. Watson made a better team a little better than average and a bad team, a four winner. Don't get me wrong. All indications are that he is good. Generational game changer I haven't seen. Same argument you guys have been making about paying a good QB too much. You're going to pay him too much AND wreck your next 3 drafts.

A 3 win talent team? Based on what?

2015 and 2016 they had a good Oline, WRs, TE, okay RBs and below average, but not terrible scoring defense. 2017 you could argue was a 3 win team with a backup QB, but an average starting QB would win 7 games with a team of that caliber no problem, and in fact Alex Smith won 6 before getting hurt with that team the next year, while his backups won just 1 of the remaining games.

PFF had Washington as the 6th most talented team in 2016 in fact. He won 8 games with that squad. 8. He just doesn't elevate teams. Hasn't his entire career, and that is why you move on, because this team needs some elevating.

I watched every game. Every game. And replays, and all 22. Your stats are what they are. Stats. In this case anyway, they tell nothing of the story. Absolutely nothing. I could go on for hours. Not much point.

I would agree the team needs some elevating. Not going to get that in the QB position. Everyone's new fantasy, Watson won one playoff game with a good team and 4 games on a bad team. Didn't elevate anything despite his fantastic stats. Doesn't mean he is not a really good QB. Sound like anyone we know? But you'll pay him more than Kirk AND wreck the next 3 drafts.

You and Kapp seem in the same boat. Blow it up top to bottom and start again because the current way hasn't done it. That's one approach. Might work, might not. But it will take a long time to recover from that kind of trade. Build on what you have or blow it up, which one will work faster? No way to know really.

[CharVike]

Tell us how good he is. I'm open to learning something if there is objectively something to learn.

Watson's stats are marginally better than Cousins from what I've seen. He's a better runner for sure. The two aren't close there, but passing-wise, they look pretty close and Cousins is better in many categories.

In terms of the overall success of their teams, there too I'm not seeing anything that makes me think Watson is going to save the Vikings and lead them into a glorious future as he hasn't done that for the Texans.

And if you believe he hasn't done that for the Texans because the Texans have poor ownership/GM/coaching, I rest my point unless you think the Vikings have great ownership/GM/coaching and the only thing holding the Vikings back is their overpaid starting QB.

Without trying to come across as an ####; do you really need me to tell you why DeShaun Watson is better than Kirk Cousins?

For full disclosure, I’m not knocking Kirk. Haven’t been a guy thinking he’s our biggest issue. That’s moot. Anytime you can get a QB who’s easily top 5 in the league, you try and get that guy.

No one is saying football is a one man game. But it is WAY easier to mask your weaknesses as a team when you have an elite QB. You obviously still need pieces. If you didn’t, Rodgers would have way more than one ring. Green Bay has ruined that guys career but that’s another story. But in a way their #### show of handling him kind of backs up my thoughts. They are always in the mix despite that franchise refusing to bring him talent. They’ve wasted him. But at least they have the option because they have a complete stud at QB.

Like I said initially, maybe the disconnect here is really that people don’t think Watson is as good as a Rodgers, or Jackson or even Mahomes. I just happen to believe that he’s in the same tier and I think his stats back up that assumption. The dude is elite.

Watson is Mahomes? Mahomes is in his 2nd Super Bowl. Mahomes threw 50 TD passes one year. Watson best is 30. How is that even close? The elite guy just lead his team to 4 wins. Not to much masking there. The elite guy couldn't beat Cousins in his own house. Old man Brady just lead a below 500 team to the show. Before that he carried a team for 20 years. That's elite. If Watson goes to Detroit I guess the Super Bowl is a given. They wouldn't even win the division because they have Rodgers to deal with. If Houston is smart they would trade him for the 1st pick. Guess what that won't get that pick for him. But he's elite. Maybe the Jets would take him for the 2nd pick. That's a dumb team but I doubt they would do it. They should be able to get the Pats pick easily. I don't see that one either. Watson's a dam good QB. His biggest issue IMO is he thinks he's also the GM/HC of the team. Imagine him here and he's told we are a ground first team. He'll start whining and it wouldn't stop. I say no thanks.

[chicagopurple]

another point about the futility of believing that Spielman can accomplish a championship, which has bugged me for years......
He proved himself unable to build a winner when handed the best RB of our generation. AP was Thors Hammer.....
This boob never realized that he might , just might, do well to invest in a OL to make AP unstoppable.....nay who needs that?
Now , he has a better then avg QB, not epic but good....and STILL hasnt managed to provide an OL.....
Things will never succeed under this fool.

[StumpHunter]

Without trying to come across as an ####; do you really need me to tell you why DeShaun Watson is better than Kirk Cousins?

For full disclosure, I’m not knocking Kirk. Haven’t been a guy thinking he’s our biggest issue. That’s moot. Anytime you can get a QB who’s easily top 5 in the league, you try and get that guy.

No one is saying football is a one man game. But it is WAY easier to mask your weaknesses as a team when you have an elite QB. You obviously still need pieces. If you didn’t, Rodgers would have way more than one ring. Green Bay has ruined that guys career but that’s another story. But in a way their #### show of handling him kind of backs up my thoughts. They are always in the mix despite that franchise refusing to bring him talent. They’ve wasted him. But at least they have the option because they have a complete stud at QB.

Like I said initially, maybe the disconnect here is really that people don’t think Watson is as good as a Rodgers, or Jackson or even Mahomes. I just happen to believe that he’s in the same tier and I think his stats back up that assumption. The dude is elite.

Watson is Mahomes? Mahomes is in his 2nd Super Bowl. Mahomes threw 50 TD passes one year. Watson best is 30. How is that even close? The elite guy just lead his team to 4 wins. Not to much masking there. The elite guy couldn't beat Cousins in his own house. Old man Brady just lead a below 500 team to the show. Before that he carried a team for 20 years. That's elite. If Watson goes to Detroit I guess the Super Bowl is a given. They wouldn't even win the division because they have Rodgers to deal with. If Houston is smart they would trade him for the 1st pick. Guess what that won't get that pick for him. But he's elite. Maybe the Jets would take him for the 2nd pick. That's a dumb team but I doubt they would do it. They should be able to get the Pats pick easily. I don't see that one either. Watson's a dam good QB. His biggest issue IMO is he thinks he's also the GM/HC of the team. Imagine him here and he's told we are a ground first team. He'll start whining and it wouldn't stop. I say no thanks.

If Zimmer had a QB of Watson's caliber he wouldn't need to put such an emphasis on the run and Watson would have his best year with us just like EVERY OTHER QB ZIMMER HAS COACHED.

Zimmer doesn't want to lose. He doesn't want his offense to not score or pick up yards. He just doesn't want his offense to turn the ball over or go 3 and out frequently. Just like every other HC. 9 out of 10 HCs with Cousins as their QB, the Oline that we have, and Cook as their RB would run it as much as Zimmer does, because that is what works best for the personnel we have on the field.

As for Watson versus Mahomes, Mahomes is a better QB, but he is also in a much better spot in KC than what Watson had in Houston. Mahomes is a once in a lifetime QB and Watson is a step below him, but not that big of a step and he would be the 2nd best QB in the NFC once Rodgers starts to decline next year due to his age catching up to him. Watson means division titles and multiple SB appearances over the next decade, even if it means giving up 3 1sts and Hunter.

[CharVike]

another point about the futility of believing that Spielman can accomplish a championship, which has bugged me for years......
He proved himself unable to build a winner when handed the best RB of our generation. AP was Thors Hammer.....
This boob never realized that he might , just might, do well to invest in a OL to make AP unstoppable.....nay who needs that?
Now , he has a better then avg QB, not epic but good....and STILL hasnt managed to provide an OL.....
Things will never succeed under this fool.

It goes beyond just the OL. I know some site has our OL as one of the worst but if that's the case how did Cook get anything? How did Cousin throw 35 TD passes? Are those two the best ever? No. Somebody was blocking. Speilman's problem is Rodgers. When he didn't play we won the division with a backup QB. Any new GM we get better have a plan for Rodgers. IMO there is only one way to slow Rodgers and that's via sacks. That means getting pass rushers. It's been tough on all us fans having to deal with a team with back to back HOF QBs in our division. The NFC east teams dealt with Brady for 20 years. Same deal. Him or a new GM better get a monster or 2 pass rusher. That's the position of biggest need and our only hope. No 1st round OL will change that. Unfortunately FA isn't stacked with great pass rushers. Teams keep those guys. We did with our guy. But we need more and now.

[chicagopurple]

really good RBs can get yards with mediocre blocking. In most situations, they have to still honor the passing threat and and RB will find his holes....hell, APs whole career, he created openings with misdirection, etc. BUT when the game is on the line, when the D pretty much knows you have to run the ball.....even the great ones can get shut down. Moreover, with no good OL, every RB will breakdown faster. Cook wont last long on our team with our crappy OL....He will bear the brunt of poor blocking and shorten his career. RBs already have the shortest career in pro ball...playing for spielman's circus will only worsen it. Imagine if AP had played with a quality OL.....His numbers would be monstrous and he would probably have lasted a lot longer in top shape. Enjoy Cook while you can.....it wont last long.

[StumpHunter]

A 3 win talent team? Based on what?

2015 and 2016 they had a good Oline, WRs, TE, okay RBs and below average, but not terrible scoring defense. 2017 you could argue was a 3 win team with a backup QB, but an average starting QB would win 7 games with a team of that caliber no problem, and in fact Alex Smith won 6 before getting hurt with that team the next year, while his backups won just 1 of the remaining games.

PFF had Washington as the 6th most talented team in 2016 in fact. He won 8 games with that squad. 8. He just doesn't elevate teams. Hasn't his entire career, and that is why you move on, because this team needs some elevating.

I watched every game. Every game. And replays, and all 22. Your stats are what they are. Stats. In this case anyway, they tell nothing of the story. Absolutely nothing. I could go on for hours. Not much point.

I would agree the team needs some elevating. Not going to get that in the QB position. Everyone's new fantasy, Watson won one playoff game with a good team and 4 games on a bad team. Didn't elevate anything despite his fantastic stats. Doesn't mean he is not a really good QB. Sound like anyone we know? But you'll pay him more than Kirk AND wreck the next 3 drafts.

You and Kapp seem in the same boat. Blow it up top to bottom and start again because the current way hasn't done it. That's one approach. Might work, might not. But it will take a long time to recover from that kind of trade. Build on what you have or blow it up, which one will work faster? No way to know really.

I watched every game too. Watched the all 22. My perception is that those Washington teams were teams that would go roughly .500 with an average QB and that is exactly what they did.

Perceptions are meaningless without facts to back them up. Everyone sees plays differently based on the biases they have going into the play. In the end all that matters are results, and the results were very average and it is not coincidence that when he came here the results were only a 1 game difference from his 3 seasons in Washington.

[vikeinmontana]

Without trying to come across as an ####; do you really need me to tell you why DeShaun Watson is better than Kirk Cousins?

For full disclosure, I’m not knocking Kirk. Haven’t been a guy thinking he’s our biggest issue. That’s moot. Anytime you can get a QB who’s easily top 5 in the league, you try and get that guy.

No one is saying football is a one man game. But it is WAY easier to mask your weaknesses as a team when you have an elite QB. You obviously still need pieces. If you didn’t, Rodgers would have way more than one ring. Green Bay has ruined that guys career but that’s another story. But in a way their #### show of handling him kind of backs up my thoughts. They are always in the mix despite that franchise refusing to bring him talent. They’ve wasted him. But at least they have the option because they have a complete stud at QB.

Like I said initially, maybe the disconnect here is really that people don’t think Watson is as good as a Rodgers, or Jackson or even Mahomes. I just happen to believe that he’s in the same tier and I think his stats back up that assumption. The dude is elite.

Watson is Mahomes? Mahomes is in his 2nd Super Bowl. Mahomes threw 50 TD passes one year. Watson best is 30. How is that even close? The elite guy just lead his team to 4 wins. Not to much masking there. The elite guy couldn't beat Cousins in his own house. Old man Brady just lead a below 500 team to the show. Before that he carried a team for 20 years. That's elite. If Watson goes to Detroit I guess the Super Bowl is a given. They wouldn't even win the division because they have Rodgers to deal with. If Houston is smart they would trade him for the 1st pick. Guess what that won't get that pick for him. But he's elite. Maybe the Jets would take him for the 2nd pick. That's a dumb team but I doubt they would do it. They should be able to get the Pats pick easily. I don't see that one either. Watson's a dam good QB. His biggest issue IMO is he thinks he's also the GM/HC of the team. Imagine him here and he's told we are a ground first team. He'll start whining and it wouldn't stop. I say no thanks.

I never said Watson is Mahomes. But qb's are in tiers, and I don't think you'd find anyone who doesn't think that Watson is in the same tier as Mahomes. We can go back and forth on stats all we want, but comparing Mahomes situation in KC and Watsons situation in Houston is asinine. Houston is a complete dumpster fire, despite having some decent talent over the years.

Yes, Mahomes had 50 td's a couple years ago. That was awesome. Then he followed it up with 26 touchdowns. Can I use that stat to try and imply he's not good? That'd be ridiculous.

But the guys stats are very close to each other so it's not like it's crazy suggesting they are both in the top tier of quarterbacks. Watson has more career yards and a higher completion percentage. Mahomes has 10 more td's than Watson (114 to 104) despite that amazing 50td season. Watson has 12 more picks than Mahomes, 36 to 24.

Obviously Mahomes and the Chiefs are very good right now. I could only dream of having that much talent and speed on a team. I'm in no way discrediting Mahomes or his success. It's awesome. But if people don't think that Watson is an elite QB, I'll just have to agree to disagree.